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Hiker_R

[Feedback submitted] Option for trackable's owner to disable all actions except "discover"

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There are trackables of which the owner only want it to be discovered (e.g. the trackables in the owner's collection, a car tb, virtual tb's) and the owner does not want them to be retrieved, dropped or grabbed by other cachers.

I've submitted an idea to make it possible for a trackable owner to disable all trackable's actions except "discover". This should be made possible using a check box on the trackable edit page. ("This trackable may only be discovered, not grabbed, dropped or retrieved").

 

Two examples of what is prevented by this possibility:

  1. It prevents your car TB ending up in another cacher's inventory which then has to be corrected by re-grabbing it.
  2. It prevents your virtual TB, that you have placed in one of your own caches and that may be discovered by finders of that cache, from being retrieved from that particular cache, ending up in another cacher's inventory. Which has to be corrected by having that cacher drop it again in the cache.

 

You may vote for the idea here: http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/2293957-option-for-trackable-s-owner-to-disable-all-action

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I think this option already exists by making use of the Collectible status for any owned trackable: If the trackable owner marks their item as Collectible anyone who sees it will have only two log options - "Discovered it" or "Write Note".

 

MrsB :)

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I believe this is already achieved by marking your trackable as collectible.

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While this may not be a bad idea, I haven't really seen it as too much of a problem. But then, we only have two "personals", both are tattoos, and only one time has one of them been "grabbed" and "placed". Somebody once stuffed my 6-3 frame into a micro -- but once I unfolded myself from the ordeal and grabbed myself back, it was little more that a chuckle and an "experience".

 

Do you have a number of personals that keep being grabbed, etc?

 

Personally, I see this type of action (mis-logging) as an opportunity to help others learn proper logging techniques. A nice email stating that while you appreciated the experience, explain that it is your personal trackable and that it really shouldn't be "grabbed" and/or "placed", it exists for "discovery" only. Simply barring somebody from performing other actions, while it may be appropriate, doesn't really provide the opportunity to help them learn more about moving, or not moving, trackables.

 

Helping others learn is at the root of a community. The geocaching community is an ever-growing and ever-changing community; there will always be some that will need help or assistance. I certainly appreciated the guidance that I had received from a couple of mis-steps. If properly addressed, I believe that others would also appreciate the help and understanding.

 

I am not disagreeing with the submitted action, I just see this as not too large of a problem and (in a sense) a missed opportunity.

 

Just a differing point-of-view. :rolleyes:

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It prevents your virtual TB, that you have placed in one of your own caches and that may be discovered by finders of that cache, from being retrieved from that particular cache,

 

I'm not familiar with the concept of a "virtual TB" -- what is this?

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I think this option already exists by making use of the Collectible status for any owned trackable: If the trackable owner marks their item as Collectible anyone who sees it will have only two log options - "Discovered it" or "Write Note".

 

MrsB :)

 

There is one situation where I can see it as desirable, in the case of a tracking bug. If you want to be able to dip your tracking bug into caches you have to keep it in your inventory, if it is in your collection it is not available to dip into a cache. On the flip side, if it's in your inventory it is then availble for other cachers to grab if they somehow get the tracking number, although I think this would be rare.

 

Perhaps the OP is talking about being able to keep a bug in your inventory and selecting an option where it can only be discovered.

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Please do not confuse people with the term "Virtual TB".

Virtual logging means allowing people to log your TB by passing out the TB tracking code, which is supposed to be kept secret, except from those who find it in person. This means if you post your tracking number in a log, in a photo, on Facebook, Tweet it, write it down and hand it out at events, and allow peole who have never seen it in person to log it, you will risk having your trackable page locked for good, and no one will be able to log it at all.

 

What the person above meant, I think, is that sometimes people attach a TB to the cache container, and let peole log it, but they can't take it, because it is attached, and therefore, the only option one would want to use there is "Discovered". That doesn't make it a virtual TB. It's just a TB that doesn't want to leave home.

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Please do not confuse people with the term "Virtual TB".

Virtual logging means allowing people to log your TB by passing out the TB tracking code, which is supposed to be kept secret, except from those who find it in person. This means if you post your tracking number in a log, in a photo, on Facebook, Tweet it, write it down and hand it out at events, and allow peole who have never seen it in person to log it, you will risk having your trackable page locked for good, and no one will be able to log it at all.

 

What the person above meant, I think, is that sometimes people attach a TB to the cache container, and let peole log it, but they can't take it, because it is attached, and therefore, the only option one would want to use there is "Discovered". That doesn't make it a virtual TB. It's just a TB that doesn't want to leave home.

 

I'm curious...if I have an event where I bring my trackables to share and be discovered, I'm not allowed to give those people who discover them a written list of the numbers?

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I'm curious...if I have an event where I bring my trackables to share and be discovered, I'm not allowed to give those people who discover them a written list of the numbers?

 

You can, since the people can see and (if you're willing) touch them. If that list starts making the rounds, being passed along to other people who were never at the event, you've got a problem.

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I just messed with the collectable option on my car TB, it doesnt matter wether it is collectable, or not. it still allows another user to grab it from me.

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I just messed with the collectable option on my car TB, it doesnt matter wether it is collectable, or not. it still allows another user to grab it from me.

 

If it is in your inventory (the list of bugs that are in your possesion that are moving from cache to cache) then yes, anyone can grab it from you whether it's marked collectable or not. But if you place the bug in your collection then the only options for others that have the tracking number is either to discover it or post a note.

 

One other thing to point out is, that if you mark a bug as collectable and then release it for others to find, then someone who finds it int he wild can then move it to their collection. That would not be a desirable thing to have happen. I'm not sure as the owner if you would then be able to remove it from the others collection or not...

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On 10/4/2011 at 2:17 PM, The Blorenges said:

I think this option already exists by making use of the Collectible status for any owned trackable: If the trackable owner marks their item as Collectible anyone who sees it will have only two log options - "Discovered it" or "Write Note".

 

MrsB :)

I have just had my Discover me, which I marked as collectible, grabbed from me so clearly it stops it from being retrieved but not grabbed.  How can I stop it from being grabbed again?

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Once you mark it as collectible you have to move it into your collection and then make it not collectible.

 

Note that if it's in your collection you can't 'dip' it in caches. But it can still be discovered (but not taken from you in any way)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2019 at 4:28 PM, KazAsh5 said:

I have just had my Discover me, which I marked as collectible, grabbed from me so clearly it stops it from being retrieved but not grabbed.  How can I stop it from being grabbed again?

 

Oh and a point of clarification - Retrieved and Grabbed are effectively the same thing (used to pull a TB into the user's inventory). Retrieved is the term for when it's pulled from a cache, and Grabbed is the term for when it's taken from someone else's inventory (ie, you can't 'grab' a TB from a cache, or 'retrieve' it from a person's hand, but the other way around)

 

In this case it wasn't 'retrieved', because it was in your possession, not in a cache. If you had placed your Discover me TB into a cache then it would have been retrieved by someone, not grabbed.  A TB will never have both grab and retrieve log options available at the same time (it's either in a cache or in someone's hand).

 

Just in case that was a misunderstanding of the terms :)

Edited by thebruce0

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13 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

A TB will never have both grab and retrieve log options available at the same time (it's either in a cache or in someone's hand).

Unfortunately this is not true. Often newbies grab TBs even when they could also retrieve it correctly from the right cache.retrieve_grab.png.993c119025470f447e5aca85fb1206c7.png

 

Because of this I also do not agree to the statement:

13 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Retrieved and Grabbed are effectively the same thing

because grabbing leaves out the note at the TB listing.

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4 hours ago, Hynz said:

Unfortunately this is not true. Often newbies grab TBs even when they could also retrieve it correctly from the right cache.retrieve_grab.png.993c119025470f447e5aca85fb1206c7.png

 

Yep, agreed.

It may sound simple, but I feel that some just don't understand the word, "Retrieve".  All know what Grab means.

Other than within this hobby, I'd be curious to know how many have ever used "retrieve" in a sentence.  :)

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9 hours ago, Hynz said:

Because of this I also do not agree to the statement:

23 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Retrieved and Grabbed are effectively the same thing

because grabbing leaves out the note at the TB listing.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, so I'll just note the only difference I can think of and see if you think there are others. Both grab and retrieve put the corresponding log in the TB listing. The difference is that the retrieve log includes a link in the header pointing to the geocache, but a grab log does not.

 

I agree they aren't the same thing even though there's only that one minor point of practical difference. I think it's important and appropriate that both options are available. I need to use grab all the time. It never occurred to me there'd be any confusion about it, but I guess I can understand that. The two terms are synonyms, so I consider it arbitrary how they've been used, but it's as good as anything I can think of. Not wrong, certainly. It's just a matter of education.

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Mea culpa. I have sometimes interchanged these terms, retrieve and grab usually in my Found It log where I say I Grabbed TB instead of Retrieved.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, dprovan said:

I'm not sure what you're saying here, so I'll just note the only difference I can think of and see if you think there are others. Both grab and retrieve put the corresponding log in the TB listing. The difference is that the retrieve log includes a link in the header pointing to the geocache, but a grab log does not.

 

I agree they aren't the same thing even though there's only that one minor point of practical difference. I think it's important and appropriate that both options are available. I need to use grab all the time. It never occurred to me there'd be any confusion about it, but I guess I can understand that. The two terms are synonyms, so I consider it arbitrary how they've been used, but it's as good as anything I can think of. Not wrong, certainly. It's just a matter of education.

I admit I had wrongly missing logs in mind when writing my posting and you're right. If between the drop and the retrieve/grab there are not endless discoveries the missing link to the cache might be indeed only a nuance. Still the basic idea (as I understand it) of travellers is to be droped in a cache and then to be retrieved from this very cache. To grab a TB should be an exception and should only occur in exactly two circumstances:

*) When the TB (due to lack of knowledge or due to ignorance) moves to another cache without tracking logs.

*) One cacher is holding the TB in his hands and (far away from a just visited cache or event) is giving it into the hands of another cacher.

 

I also agree that both options are important but feel that the necessary education about it seems difficult in modern times. Hence my "protest" in labeling both as being "the same thing" ;)

Edited by Hynz

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Posted (edited)
On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:43 AM, Hynz said:

Unfortunately this is not true. Often newbies grab TBs even when they could also retrieve it correctly from the right cache.retrieve_grab.png.993c119025470f447e5aca85fb1206c7.png

 

Because of this I also do not agree to the statement:

because grabbing leaves out the note at the TB listing.

 

theBruce0 is correct in the context of his reply, and even clarified the statement, that if a TB is available to be Grabbed, it can also be Retrieved.  Either action pulls the item into one's Inventory.  Same thing.  As this Topic goes, if it's made Discover only, it in fact by definition would not be possible to "Grab" or "Retrieve".  Because they are... the same thing.  The OP wants neither of those things.  But of course we know that they each have a purpose. 

 

But education is good.  I've tried for years to help people figure out what "Collectible" means, and then how to perform the next essential step, placing the item into a "Collection".  Look at the first threads in this Topic, and you see people suggesting that "Collectible" will stop the logs and others wondering why it doesn't stop the logs they thought it would stop.  And so it goes, Takers can't figure out which function to use, TOs can't figure out how to force Takers to play in a meaningful way.

 

I also think that ideas (education for one) to prevent dumb logging practices are better than ideas to restrict available logs.  People love to click buttons.  More buttons create more problems, not less.  AND, there was and is already a way to allow no Grab/Retrieve logs.  The "Collection" was designed to solve a bunch of problems at once.  See?  It made more.  :anicute:

 

 

Edited by kunarion

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8 hours ago, Hynz said:

To grab a TB should be an exception and should only occur in exactly two circumstances:

*) When the TB (due to lack of knowledge or due to ignorance) moves to another cache without tracking logs.

*) One cacher is holding the TB in his hands and (far away from a just visited cache or event) is giving it into the hands of another cacher.

I don't think the first one should be so convoluted. What you mean is "The TB was taken from somewhere other than where it's listed."

 

The second, covering hand to hand transfer, is OK, but the proximity to an event or cache is irrelevant. It was passed hand to hand, so it has to be grabbed. Yes, it would be better if someone passing something hand to hand at an event or while standing next to the cache logged the drop/retrieve so the event or cache is involved, but whether the other cacher did that or not is an unimportant detail when talking about the fact that you need to grab it from the other cacher if they didn't drop it.

 

8 hours ago, Hynz said:

I also agree that both options are important but feel that the necessary education about it seems difficult in modern times. Hence my "protest" in labeling both as being "the same thing" ;)

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some other practical difference I was overlooking.

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On 7/25/2019 at 5:43 AM, Hynz said:
On 7/24/2019 at 3:42 PM, thebruce0 said:

A TB will never have both grab and retrieve log options available at the same time (it's either in a cache or in someone's hand).

Unfortunately this is not true. Often newbies grab TBs even when they could also retrieve it correctly from the right cache.retrieve_grab.png.993c119025470f447e5aca85fb1206c7.png

 

Because of this I also do not agree to the statement:

On 7/24/2019 at 3:42 PM, thebruce0 said:

Retrieved and Grabbed are effectively the same thing

because grabbing leaves out the note at the TB listing.

 

True enough. I forgot about the option to "Grab it from somewhere else" -- I was referring to grabbing it from someone's possession (which is different).

 

The context of my comment was that a TB can never in a geocache and in a user's possession at the same time, thus those two options will never be there simultaneously.

"Grab it from somewhere else" is for those instances where you've found the TB, but it's NOT where it's currently indicated (it's not in that cache OR in someone's possession).

 

So technically what I said was true, AND what you said is true :) So thank you for bringing up that additional logging option!

 

And as kunarion re-noted, if it's marked as not collectible, then none of those options will appear. If it is collectible, then "Grab it from somewhere else" and either "Retrieve..." or "Grab [from a user]" will be available.

Discovered It will always be available.

(as I recall)

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