Is it legal/illegal ?

March 27, 2011

I've been looking for an answer to this question for the past hour ever since returning from this cache site GC2D76K today.

GZ is in the center of the overpass to Rt. 57. If you look at the sat pics, you'll see it's open cornfields on either side. Don't let this fool you. This highway is just like any other highway. I believe it extends from Chicago to Tennessee. I could be wrong. I didn't look it up.

There are highway overpasses with pedestrian walkways but this isn't one of them.

Our search for this cache was VERY brief and I'll tell you why...it wasn't the fact that there wasn't any place to park or the fact that we were 100' up over an expressway with cars doing 70mph below and frigid cold 40 mph winds that burnt our faces to a crisp...the fear wasn't for ourselves but for the people in the cars passing by under us ! They HAD TO see us up there wandering around !I know if I was approaching the underpass and saw someone, "up there," hanging over the edge, I'd be freaked !

What were the motorists thinking ? Were they thinking we were going to jump ? Hurl a huge boulder over the railing ?

Strange thing was, there were long lengths of guardrail on both sides of the overpass where the cache could've easily been placed ?

Anyway, my question is: If a LEO pulled up, could we have been arrested ?

thanks.

1.2k · March 27, 2011

As a general rule, it is illegal to stop on Interstates, but this is really on the county road where it passes over the interstate. In most areas, its not illegal to stop on county roads.

7.5k · March 27, 2011

I had a look at the Street View....yes I completely agree that it's dangerous to the drivers below. I know I would be a little freaked out to see someone milling about the edge of the bridge. We've had a couple of prominent cases in the news involving kids throwing large rocks over - killing one person and brain-damaging another person. I'm glad to see that at least a quarter of the posts also agree that it was a potentially dangerous hide. But I'm pretty sure it's not on the guidelines for unacceptable cache hides.

6.5k · March 27, 2011

Is it legal to be up there on foot? You would have to consult the laws of the state in which this cache is placed. The guidelines state "all local laws apply".

Are the interstate drivers speeding by underneath at 75 MPH freaking out? I don't know what others think, but I doubt it. They are probably moving too quickly, and paying attention to the other vehicles around them to worry about someone 100' above. Unless they are local, they don't know there isn't a sidewalk there. And the cache appears to have been carefully placed above a wide median between the interstate lanes.

Sounds like another potstirring thread to me.

8.6k · March 27, 2011

Anyway, my question is: If a LEO pulled up, could we have been arrested ?

There is no straight-up answer to the question posed. It would depend mostly on whether you were breaking a law in that location -- different laws, different areas. Only you (should) know the answer.

More so, I think you should follow this one un-written "law" about geocaching -- if you aren't comfortable with the location (or the hunt), skip it. Move on to the next one. A smiley probably isn't worth it.

Strange things -- human "comfort levels" -- they act sort of like a conscience.

2.6k · March 27, 2011

Seems to me it may be subject to this portion of the placement guidelines, but I would think the reviewer would have seen where this was prior to publication.

1.3. Inappropriate or Non-publishable Placements
...

3. A cache may be disabled or archived if (list is not exhaustive) one or more of the following is true. If your cache is located within one of the areas listed below and you have complied with special regulations by obtaining written permission or a permit, please explain this in a "Note to Reviewer."

...

5. Cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure including and not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, military bases, schools, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

March 27, 2011

I agree with an earlier post; sometimes you just have to say a cache is too dangerous and beyond your personal comfort level, and pass on by. This is a game and not worth risking anyone's safety or life!

If you feel that this cache presents a dangerous situation, then post a very specific log talking about the risks involved. That way, the next cacher who decides to try this one will at least know there may be a problem. I think this sort of placement also illustrates the need for common sense of the part of the person owning the cache. There are millions of spots where a cache COULD be placed, but many or most of those spots may be where a cache should NOT be placed!

March 27, 2011

Interestingly, I have been in a similar situation while caching--Except I was searching for a cache on a pedestrian bridge (so it was obviously legal) over Interstate 35. If you know I-35 in Texas, you KNOW it's a busy highway. 3-4 lanes wide in both directions. For those who say that the drivers won't pay attention to someone 100 feet above them, you are wrong. I searched for that cache for no more than 2-3 minutes, and I was honked at no less than 25 times. Believe me, I was a HUGE distraction. I got so jumpy because 18-wheelers were honking at me that I logged a DNF rather than continuing to search.

8.6k · March 27, 2011

Believe me, I was a HUGE distraction. I got so jumpy because 18-wheelers were honking at me that I logged a DNF rather than continuing to search.

Good job on the driver's part, if you were about to drop a bowling ball through their windshield!

March 27, 2011

Well... first it seems the cache is located directly above the median dividing the two different traffic routes, so its not like you are "hanging over the edge" directly above the flow of traffic.

Second... I seriously doubt this overpass is "100 ft" above the lower pavement. While I will point out I am not familiar with the area, the usual clearance of overpasses on the lower traffic path is in the 16-20 ft range.

Seems to me you might be sensationalizing just a bit.

Just sayin'

edit spelling

Edited March 27, 2011 by NeecesandNephews

March 27, 2011

As a general rule, it is illegal to stop on Interstates, but this is really on the county road where it passes over the interstate. In most areas, its not illegal to stop on county roads.

Looking at the satelite view and photo gallery on the page,

seems obvious that one stops on the county road (probably not illegal)

and not above the traffic lanes on the Interstate.

One could also park on that county road on either side of the

bridge and walk to the center.

2.4k · March 27, 2011

Your question was specifically about law and I know you aren't allowed to stop on freeways, but I believe it is fine on highways. I've geocached on many highways.

The answers you are getting often are about geocaching laws.

Geocaching.com doesn't have rules about safety of hides. There's no way it can. If it began to open that can of worms Groundspeak would spend all of it's time in courts debating whether they should have allowed this or that cache to be published.

There are many dangerous difficult hides out there including ones that need climbing ropes, and one in an abandoned nuclear reactor core. Some hides are dangerous.

Myself, I really prefer the CO state on the cache page that it is a dangerous hide. I don't mind dangerous or difficult, I just want to know up front so I can make the decision whether to look or not.

If you ever find any hide that makes you feel unsafe, then don't do it. The more you cache, the more chance of you running across some of them. Some people flock to these. Some stay away. We have caches for everyone in this game.

I may have been on a drive to "find them all" but there just are a number of them I'm going to have to leave out. :sad:

3.2k · March 27, 2011

Our search for this cache was VERY brief and I'll tell you why...it wasn't the fact that there wasn't any place to park or the fact that we were 100' up over an expressway with cars doing 70mph below and frigid cold 40 mph winds that burnt our faces to a crisp...

A location we pass often, the height is < 30 ft. At 100 ft, there would be no issue as most if not all vehicles passing under would not have it in their line of site.

Anyway, my question is: If a LEO pulled up, could we have been arrested ?

It would depend if you were doing something illegal, however going for the cache would not be the reason. Were you to park on the bridge, yes, as you would be blocking lanes of traffic and subject to a citation (not arrest). If the vehicle is parked safely of the highway and you walked to the point on the bridge, you would most certainly be asked what you were doing if the officer did not know it was there (most likely they do), however that would be the extent of it.

Is it legal to be up there on foot? You would have to consult the laws of the state in which this cache is placed. The guidelines state "all local laws apply".

Are the interstate drivers speeding by underneath at 75 MPH freaking out? I don't know what others think, but I doubt it. They are probably moving too quickly, and paying attention to the other vehicles around them to worry about someone 100' above. Unless they are local, they don't know there isn't a sidewalk there. And the cache appears to have been carefully placed above a wide median between the interstate lanes.

Excellent point that I had not thought of. Most vehicles won't know whether or not there is a walkway and most drivers, especially in the area in question which is more rural, are not expecting the worst out of individuals. This is within Illinois state law, of course there could be a local ordinance of some sort however doubtful.

Sounds like another potstirring thread to me.

It does kind of appear that way since no DNF or note was posted by the OP on the cache at the time of this post. I can't speak specifically to this overpass but the nature of the area often has pedestrians, bikes and runners going over these type of overpasses so the only thing that may appear out of the ordinary would be someone stopped there "inspecting" for a prolonged period of time.

Edited March 27, 2011 by baloo&bd

10.1k · March 27, 2011

Sounds like another potstirring thread to me.

It does kind of appear that way since no DNF or note was posted by the OP on the cache at the time of this post. I can't speak specifically to this overpass but the nature of the area often has pedestrians, bikes and runners going over these type of overpasses so the only thing that may appear out of the ordinary would be someone stopped there "inspecting" for a prolonged period of time.

Does seem to be trolling. Ya don't like the area, don't go hunting for the cache. Simple.

Is it a legal spot? Depends on the local laws. I find lots of benchmarks on local bridges. If a person can walk on the overpass, then it's legal to be there. Don't they have (ummm, what should we call them?) 'projectile prevention nets'? We have them on most overpasses. (Though that's not what we call them.) I did get questioned once, by a Brigantine Beach Policeman, for standing on the sidewalk on a bridge in Atlantic City. "You're not allowed to hang out on a bridge." Hunh?!? Sure. You may be questioned. (The bridge was NOT in Brigantine!) But if the local laws permit you to be there, then you will probably not be arrested.

I guess I'm having problems understanding why the CO is questioning this in the fora.

4.2k · March 27, 2011

Sounds like another potstirring thread to me.

no kidding eh?

besides seems that OP's haven't even found the cache, so except for the general area we don't know where it is and if hanging off over the edge is necessary

March 27, 2011

I've been looking for an answer to this question for the past hour ever since returning from this cache site GC2D76K today.

GZ is in the center of the overpass to Rt. 57. If you look at the sat pics, you'll see it's open cornfields on either side. Don't let this fool you. This highway is just like any other highway. I believe it extends from Chicago to Tennessee. I could be wrong. I didn't look it up.

There are highway overpasses with pedestrian walkways but this isn't one of them.

Our search for this cache was VERY brief and I'll tell you why...it wasn't the fact that there wasn't any place to park or the fact that we were 100' up over an expressway with cars doing 70mph below and frigid cold 40 mph winds that burnt our faces to a crisp...the fear wasn't for ourselves but for the people in the cars passing by under us ! They HAD TO see us up there wandering around !I know if I was approaching the underpass and saw someone, "up there," hanging over the edge, I'd be freaked !

What were the motorists thinking ? Were they thinking we were going to jump ? Hurl a huge boulder over the railing ?

Strange thing was, there were long lengths of guardrail on both sides of the overpass where the cache could've easily been placed ?

Anyway, my question is: If a LEO pulled up, could we have been arrested ?

thanks.

4.2k · March 27, 2011

speechless? :anibad:

March 27, 2011

Edited March 27, 2011 by GOLDYSGIRL

March 27, 2011

I am familiar with this cache, and have actually "found it" It states in the hint, that is is on the road. Unless you are suicidal, no one should ever be hanging over a bridge. Common sense. This is a country road, people walk here all the time. traffic is low...mostly farmers. If you feel unsafe...then just pass it up. Again common sense. In this town of 400 people, the 1 and only town cop has never arrested ANYONE geocaching. Cache on! :rolleyes:

March 27, 2011

speechless?

computer glitch!

7.5k · March 28, 2011

Interestingly, I have been in a similar situation while caching--Except I was searching for a cache on a pedestrian bridge (so it was obviously legal) over Interstate 35. If you know I-35 in Texas, you KNOW it's a busy highway. 3-4 lanes wide in both directions. For those who say that the drivers won't pay attention to someone 100 feet above them, you are wrong. I searched for that cache for no more than 2-3 minutes, and I was honked at no less than 25 times. Believe me, I was a HUGE distraction. I got so jumpy because 18-wheelers were honking at me that I logged a DNF rather than continuing to search.

Yes, same thing is reported by cachers searching for coordinates on the rails, in the middle of a pedestrian bridge near me. The bridge spans a 6 lane highway. They report a lot of honking from the cars below.

Addendum: I'm not saying the above cache in my example shouldn't be there, only agreeing with BaylorGrad. People milling about on a bridge spanning a major highway, where cars are travelling at great rates of speed, can be a concern or at least a distraction to drivers below.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Lone R

5k · March 28, 2011

Interestingly, I have been in a similar situation while caching--Except I was searching for a cache on a pedestrian bridge (so it was obviously legal) over Interstate 35. If you know I-35 in Texas, you KNOW it's a busy highway. 3-4 lanes wide in both directions. For those who say that the drivers won't pay attention to someone 100 feet above them, you are wrong. I searched for that cache for no more than 2-3 minutes, and I was honked at no less than 25 times. Believe me, I was a HUGE distraction. I got so jumpy because 18-wheelers were honking at me that I logged a DNF rather than continuing to search.

Yes, same thing is reported by cachers searching for coordinates on the rails, in the middle of a pedestrian bridge near me. The bridge spans a 6 lane highway. They report a lot of honking from the cars below.

Addendum: I'm not saying the above cache in my example shouldn't be there, only agreeing with BaylorGrad. People milling about on a bridge spanning a major highway, where cars are travelling at great rates of speed, can be a concern or at least a distraction to drivers below.

People must be preoccupied in Southern C1alifornia. I've done four of these and haven't been honked at once.

2.5k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

19k · March 28, 2011

Jaywalking? You mean like on Leno?

You ask if you would be arrested. Are you serious? Arrested? As in, read your rights, frisked, handcuffed, put into the back seat of a patrol car, finger printed, questioned under bright lights. locked up until arraignment and bail has been set... naw. I don't think so. You might be warned, if caught.

2.5k · March 28, 2011

Jaywalking? You mean like on Leno?

You ask if you would be arrested. Are you serious? Arrested? As in, read your rights, frisked, handcuffed, put into the back seat of a patrol car, finger printed, questioned under bright lights. locked up until arraignment and bail has been set... naw. I don't think so. You might be warned, if caught.

Not to go off topic but try it in Las Vegas. I bet you will need some bail money.

5k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

2.5k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

I don't think I ever said it was called jaywalking?

20.7k · March 28, 2011

Jaywalking? You mean like on Leno?

You ask if you would be arrested. Are you serious? Arrested? As in, read your rights, frisked, handcuffed, put into the back seat of a patrol car, finger printed, questioned under bright lights. locked up until arraignment and bail has been set... naw. I don't think so. You might be warned, if caught.

Not to go off topic but try it in Las Vegas. I bet you will need some bail money.

Are their any country roads with bridges going over the interstate within Las Vegas? If so, how would walking over the bridge be illegal?

2.5k · March 28, 2011

Jaywalking? You mean like on Leno?

You ask if you would be arrested. Are you serious? Arrested? As in, read your rights, frisked, handcuffed, put into the back seat of a patrol car, finger printed, questioned under bright lights. locked up until arraignment and bail has been set... naw. I don't think so. You might be warned, if caught.

Not to go off topic but try it in Las Vegas. I bet you will need some bail money.

Are their any country roads with bridges going over the interstate within Las Vegas? If so, how would walking over the bridge be illegal?

I don't think I ever said that there was any there either. Do you guys read these posts twice before you try and jump right on it?

2.5k · March 28, 2011

To the OP. I guess it might have been better if you started the thread as,"Is it legal/illegal? To place a cache on the overpass.

19k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

I don't think I ever said it was called jaywalking?

Well, you came pretty darned close. You said that you think "they" call it jaywalking".

Part #1: Jaywalking? You mean like on Leno?

Part #2: You ask if you would be arrested. Are you serious? Arrested? As in, read your rights, frisked, handcuffed, put into the back seat of a patrol car, finger printed, questioned under bright lights. locked up until arraignment and bail has been set... naw. I don't think so. You might be warned, if caught.

Not to go off topic but try it in Las Vegas. I bet you will need some bail money.

Are their any country roads with bridges going over the interstate within Las Vegas? If so, how would walking over the bridge be illegal?

I don't think I ever said that there was any there either. Do you guys read these posts twice before you try and jump right on it?

My post... the one where you mentioned Las Vegas, was two parts. Part #1 was a response to your jaywalking comment. It could have been answered with an "LOL". Part #2 was intended for the OP, not you. IN THE SITUATION THE OP SPECIFIED, I seriously doubt that any of those things would happen.

2.1k · March 28, 2011

I don't think I ever said that there was any there either. Do you guys read these posts twice before you try and jump right on it?

If one person misunderstands what you wrote, well, sometimes people misunderstand.

If several people misunderstand what you wrote, then maybe the problem is with what you wrote, not with them.

7k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How are you supposed to cross the street on the crosswalk when there's no crosswalk around?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

March 28, 2011

1k · March 28, 2011

I always though J-walking was when you when from, say, the Southeast corner of an intersection, headed to the Southwest corner and then curved around to the Northwest corner without stepping on the Southwest corner. Kinda like not tagging second on a triple.

1.8k · March 28, 2011

For those who say that the drivers won't pay attention to someone 100 feet above them, you are wrong. I searched for that cache for no more than 2-3 minutes, and I was honked at no less than 25 times. Believe me, I was a HUGE distraction. I got so jumpy because 18-wheelers were honking at me that I logged a DNF rather than continuing to search.

Speaking from experience, I do watch those on overpasses. Closely! Having some nut drop things off happens too often not to. As for BaylorGrad, a young lady will get attention, but I am not sure how those fellows plan on asking you out if they don't stop.

The cache in question shows to be over the median in the sat image. A little less of a concern, but cachers will still get watched. How dangerous depends on the traffic the county road sees, I myself prefer caches not near traffic. Bridges and overpasses, to me, are out of the question.

5k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

I don't think I ever said it was called jaywalking?

Okay, you want to play with words? Where did I say that you said it was jaywalking?

19k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

I don't think I ever said it was called jaywalking?

Okay, you want to play with words? Where did I say that you said it was jaywalking?

For that matter, where did I say that John in Valley Forge said that dfx said it was jaywalking?

Edited March 28, 2011 by knowschad

15.4k · March 28, 2011

I always though J-walking was when you when from, say, the Southeast corner of an intersection, headed to the Southwest corner and then curved around to the Northwest corner without stepping on the Southwest corner. Kinda like not tagging second on a triple.

Interesting. I'd never heard that definition. In California, it is illegal for pedestrians to cross between two intersections where there is no crosswalk and both intersections are controlled by signals. That's what I've heard called "jaywalking". It's also illegal for pedestrians to cross against the signal, or for pedestrians not to yield right-of-way to vehicles when crossing where there is no crosswalk, but I haven't heard those called "jaywalking".

2.5k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

I don't think I ever said it was called jaywalking?

Okay, you want to play with words? Where did I say that you said it was jaywalking?

Kind of starts when you qoute someone. [] or should I us the :lol: guy

2.5k · March 28, 2011

I am sure it is as illegal as crossing the street without using the crosswalk to get a cache on the other side of the street. Think they call it jay walking.

How is walking down the side of a country road, and crossing over an Interstate on a bridge that is designed to get you from one side of the interstate to the other, jaywalking?

I don't think I ever said it was called jaywalking?

Well, you came pretty darned close. You said that you think "they" call it jaywalking".

Part #1: Jaywalking? You mean like on Leno?

Part #2: You ask if you would be arrested. Are you serious? Arrested? As in, read your rights, frisked, handcuffed, put into the back seat of a patrol car, finger printed, questioned under bright lights. locked up until arraignment and bail has been set... naw. I don't think so. You might be warned, if caught.

Not to go off topic but try it in Las Vegas. I bet you will need some bail money.

Are their any country roads with bridges going over the interstate within Las Vegas? If so, how would walking over the bridge be illegal?

I don't think I ever said that there was any there either. Do you guys read these posts twice before you try and jump right on it?

My post... the one where you mentioned Las Vegas, was two parts. Part #1 was a response to your jaywalking comment. It could have been answered with an "LOL". Part #2 was intended for the OP, not you. IN THE SITUATION THE OP SPECIFIED, I seriously doubt that any of those things would happen.

My post with the guy. Was meant as a joke. Should I have placed the :laughing: frog or the :lol: guy. You tell me cause I am always wrong. Or would I put this one in its place? :blink:

2.5k · March 28, 2011

Now that the train just got derailed or did I miss qoute that? Should we turn the train around and start heading the right way with the topic?

19k · March 28, 2011

3.2k · March 28, 2011

Should we turn the train around and start heading the right way with the topic?

I'd be concerned doing that. We don't know if that would be considered. "jaywalking". ;>

Is it legal/illegal ?

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