Article about ET Highway PT closure

[+tozainamboku]

The moment I brought up gas to cache ratio on the E.T. Highway, it sure went south pretty quick from there. Did I miss something?

Probably.

I think your particular tangent of the thread went south when you chose to take a potshot at CM for his caches per day and suggested he may need to dust off his GPS.

 

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

I think you mean "clique," "secret," and "you're." But apart from that, how on earth do you get cliques and secret handshakes out of Wrastro's comment?

I think that it's because of the way posters closed ranks against joranda and ignored CM's snark that prompted the reply that joranda is being attacked for.

I think things started going downhill when the volunteer reviewers complained that they didn't know the definition of power trail, so Groundspeak removed the reference to power trails from the saturation guidelines. This resulted in reviewers publishing power trails, resulting in cachers placing longer and longer power trails, ultimately resulting in over 1000 caches being placed on the ET highway, without permission from the Neveda DOT, resulting in numbers cachers trying to find as many of these as possible and in doing so not driving safely, resulting in a near collision with a snowplow, that resulted in NDOT asking for the caches to be archived, which disappointed some cachers who were planning to take a trip to Nevada to do this trail, so they wrote a columnist at the Las Vegas paper who wrote column about it, and that got discussed on the Geocaching discussion forums, where cachers who wanted to do the trail express support for the columns premise that geocaching helped the economy, while the geocachers who believe power trails cause problems like this one did found ways to criticize the column, resulting in one cacher indicating that some are motivated to find power trails because they allow you to find a lot of ccaches using little gas, while another said that if finding a lot of caches were his motivation he would stop caching, so the other pointed out that in that case you aren't using a lot of gas anyhow, which was taken by someone else to be judging a cacher by their number of finds, so they found a statistic that show the other cache had a longer streak with out finding caches, so the other asked about whether he missed the secret handshake, and then someone point to his profile and saying that Masons should know about secret handshakes.

[+DadOf6Furrballs]

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

So says the Mason...

 

What is wrong with being a bricklayer?

 

Spoilsport. If I have to spell it out, it's not as funny.

 

 

Google search result: mason secret handshake

 

edit: IBTL^2

Must not be THAT secret, if it's all over Google.

[Brad_W]

Please return the conversation to the topic of "Article about ET Highway PT closure". Comments about personal caching statistics, thinly veiled personal attacks and fraternal organization affiliations are clearly off topic here.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

[+Geo_Raptor]

Pretty off topic. I'll take IBTL for $1,000 Alex

 

I have refrained from posting to this thread as I feared that it would devolve in the ways I see it has.

However, I thought the OP raised an interesting point about press coverage of our sport/activity (depends on how you play it) that deserved a rational discussion. I am disappointed that the OP has not posted again since starting the topic. Sticking to the original premise, what does the OP think of the responses about this press coverage that have appeared in this thread?

 

As the OP of the thread, I thought the article would be an interesting discussion piece for the forum regulars to wrap their collective minds around and I hoped to see more discussion on the "economics" of geocaching with respect to this power trail and the region it was in.

 

But to address your comment, I have to admit that I do not have too much more to say about the article in terms of other's opinions as

1) I have never attempted this PT

2) I have never attempted any PT

3) I have never been to Nevada

4) and finally, I do not have any first hand knowledge of the economy of the region

So, this really would limit my ability to add value to the discussion. But, I did appreciate some of the on-topic discussion that was generated....however short lived it was (the risk of a forum topic runs when the OP just looks in once and a while)

 

That being said, I do agree that the article does have some factual inaccuracies about geocaching that limit its value to an informed reader but it does not mean the entire article should be discounted and "thrown away". Some of the "first hand" quotes around the economy and societal impacts (both good and bad) of this type of geocaching had merit...

[+Michaelcycle]

 

As the OP of the thread, I thought the article would be an interesting discussion piece for the forum regulars to wrap their collective minds around and I hoped to see more discussion on the "economics" of geocaching with respect to this power trail and the region it was in.

 

But to address your comment, I have to admit that I do not have too much more to say about the article in terms of other's opinions as

1) I have never attempted this PT

2) I have never attempted any PT

3) I have never been to Nevada

4) and finally, I do not have any first hand knowledge of the economy of the region

So, this really would limit my ability to add value to the discussion. But, I did appreciate some of the on-topic discussion that was generated....however short lived it was (the risk of a forum topic runs when the OP just looks in once and a while)

 

That being said, I do agree that the article does have some factual inaccuracies about geocaching that limit its value to an informed reader but it does not mean the entire article should be discounted and "thrown away". Some of the "first hand" quotes around the economy and societal impacts (both good and bad) of this type of geocaching had merit...

 

Thanks for the reply. Like you, I have concerns regarding the way geocaching was portrayed in the article. The economic inpact of "tourism" geocaching does has some implications and I think they are worth discussing. I know I went to Portland with S on business and we stayed an extra day to go to the Original Stash Plaque. I suspect others have done similar things (excluding the obvious events like GeoWoodstock) The Maryland Municipal League cache series and others are attempting to take advantage of the idea that "geotourism" (I'm sure someone has already coined that word) can have economic vaue to a community. I wonder if Groundspeak has done any research on the matter?

 

And, yes, threads can can get a little off kilter if the OP isn't minding them

[+Geo_Raptor]

I definitely agree about the potential economic impact of geocaching...we are planning to go to seattle for the Block party and are planning to do the ape cache on the way down from BC. So we decided that we would attempt the triad at same time. We booked a few extra days off and plan to go down to portland. Portland would not have seen our tourist dollars this year except for a "special" cache placement.

 

Cheers.

 

Edited last line...thing to this

Edited March 17, 2011 by Fonty Family

[+Ecylram]

Thanks for the reply. Like you, I have concerns regarding the way geocaching was portrayed in the article. The economic inpact of "tourism" geocaching does has some implications and I think they are worth discussing. I know I went to Portland with S on business and we stayed an extra day to go to the Original Stash Plaque. I suspect others have done similar things (excluding the obvious events like GeoWoodstock) The Maryland Municipal League cache series and others are attempting to take advantage of the idea that "geotourism" (I'm sure someone has already coined that word) can have economic vaue to a community. I wonder if Groundspeak has done any research on the matter?

 

And, yes, threads can can get a little off kilter if the OP isn't minding them

I'm not helping by taking this off-track (a bit)...

 

Portland is definitely a destination for geocachers, not just the Original Stash plaque, but also the Dr. Who. cache (which I'm dying to do). Seattle (sorta) draws traffic for the APE cache. The Route 66 PT will draw some tourism.

 

I bet the Alien Head caches that remain from the ET Power Trail will still draw some dedicated cachers as well. (Phew...back on topic.)

[+sbell111]

In my opinion, the article was decidedly pro-geocaching. I'm happy that it was picked up by so many news organizations. It doesn't bother me that every fact in it about the game wasn't 100% correct. After all, the writer got more things right than 95% of those that have been printed over the years.

[+wimseyguy]

I'll take 'when will toz use some punctuation besides a comma for 500 Alex?"

[+sbell111]

I'll take 'when will toz use some punctuation besides a comma for 500 Alex?"

I didn't notice. Generally, when someone posts a huge block of text, I'll read the first few sentences and then get bored and move on. I realize that this laziness will cause me to miss something that could either validate my feelings or change my mind, but it is what it is.

 

Regarding the article, I think that the thing that I most like about it is that it's a positive article about the game taken from the perspective of outsiders. Here we have a business owner who was tickled to have us coming there and angered when we were chased off. That's good stuff.

Edited March 17, 2011 by sbell111

[+hzoi]

joranda, I apologize for breaching decorum earlier. I was over the line.

 

on topic (and playing nice): interesting to see the comment from the geocaching NDOT employee, though I disagree with their position that a state highway right of way = "private property."

[+Ecylram]

joranda, I apologize for breaching decorum earlier. I was over the line.

 

on topic (and playing nice): interesting to see the comment from the geocaching NDOT employee, though I disagree with their position that a state highway right of way = "private property."

 

I'm not used to seeing posts like this on this forum. It's really nice to see. Thumbs up!

[+Sagefox]

...Generally, when someone posts a huge block of text, I'll read the first few sentences and then get bored and move on. I realize that this laziness will cause me to miss something that could either validate my feelings or change my mind, but it is what it is.

 

Yep. Me too. Especially when there is but one paragraph for each 15,000 characters.

[+Sagefox]

...interesting to see the comment from the geocaching NDOT employee, though I disagree with their position that a state highway right of way = "private property."

 

Except that when you consider that NDOT (and all other state and county DOTs) are responsible for the safety along the road. I'm sure this has already been said but I'm not going to read this entire topic. I am checking in from time-to-time to see where this might go.

[+hzoi]

...interesting to see the comment from the geocaching NDOT employee, though I disagree with their position that a state highway right of way = "private property."

 

Except that when you consider that NDOT (and all other state and county DOTs) are responsible for the safety along the road. I'm sure this has already been said but I'm not going to read this entire topic. I am checking in from time-to-time to see where this might go.

 

Well, I mean from a legal perspective. "Private property" carries a legal status with it. Among other things, the owner of private property has the right of use and enjoyment of that property, and has the right to choose whether to allow people to enter the property or to exclude them.

 

Highway 375 is not "private property." The State of Nevada, through NDOT, is responsible for maintaining Highway 375 and regulates how the public may or may not use this highway, but that is not the same thing.

[+Ecylram]

...interesting to see the comment from the geocaching NDOT employee, though I disagree with their position that a state highway right of way = "private property."

 

Except that when you consider that NDOT (and all other state and county DOTs) are responsible for the safety along the road. I'm sure this has already been said but I'm not going to read this entire topic. I am checking in from time-to-time to see where this might go.

 

While I'm not a fan of NDOT's final decision to ask for the removal of all the ET Highway caches, NDOT has otherwise been accepting of geocaches.

 

A few weeks ago when a bunch of caches showed up missing on the trail, a rumor went around that a NDOT employee was removing them. The CO's contacted NDOT and found out that NDOT had not ordered the removal of the caches. They did work out an agreement where the CO's would move the caches at the road signs and on lower visibility curves further off the highway and onto the BLM land. Before the moves could be completed, (supposedly) a snow plow driver reported a near hit with a car believed to be carrying geocachers. That's when NDOT asked the caches to be removed from the ET Highway altogether. The caches were promptly archived and they have since been physically removed.

 

NDOT made it clear that they are not seeking the removal of any other caches on their right away at this time. So it is believed that caches on NDOT right away will continue to be allowed as long as there aren't reported problems with the placements.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Ecylram

[+briansnat]

I think things started going downhill when the volunteer reviewers complained that they didn't know the definition of power trail, so Groundspeak removed the reference to power trails from the saturation guidelines. This resulted in reviewers publishing power trails,....

 

Where DO you get this stuff?

[knowschad]

I think things started going downhill when the volunteer reviewers complained that they didn't know the definition of power trail, so Groundspeak removed the reference to power trails from the saturation guidelines. This resulted in reviewers publishing power trails,....

 

Where DO you get this stuff?

[+joranda]

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

So says the Mason...

 

What is wrong with being a bricklayer?

 

Spoilsport. If I have to spell it out, it's not as funny.

 

 

Google search result: mason secret handshake

 

edit: IBTL^2

 

 

I am a Bricklayer which is a Mason. Not one of the founding father masons.

Edited March 18, 2011 by joranda

[knowschad]

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

So says the Mason...

 

What is wrong with being a bricklayer?

 

Spoilsport. If I have to spell it out, it's not as funny.

 

 

Google search result: mason secret handshake

 

edit: IBTL^2

 

Spelled out to you The secret order to this mason is a bricklayer. To me, I am a mason which is a bricklayer but I know you will some how prove me wrong about that too.

Uh.... I think he was just kidding all along. Unless I missed something, there is no need for you to take this so seriously.

[Clan Riffster]

Ihave yet to call the Little Al'e'inn to cancel our reservation. I'm not looking forward to that

Then don't. There are still some amazing caches to be had in that area.

You'll walk away with some great memories, and the local economy gets your dollars.

Sounds like a "Win - Win" to me.

The only change will be the sheer volume of smileys you will accrue during your venture.

[+sbell111]

Ihave yet to call the Little Al'e'inn to cancel our reservation. I'm not looking forward to that

Then don't. There are still some amazing caches to be had in that area.

You'll walk away with some great memories, and the local economy gets your dollars.

Sounds like a "Win - Win" to me.

The only change will be the sheer volume of smileys you will accrue during your venture.

What you continue to propose is that other cachers change how they choose to go caching in an effort to make some sort of point. What you are ignoring is that we each get to decide how we want to have fun playing this game.

[+joranda]

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

So says the Mason...

 

What is wrong with being a bricklayer?

 

Spoilsport. If I have to spell it out, it's not as funny.

 

 

Google search result: mason secret handshake

 

edit: IBTL^2

 

Spelled out to you The secret order to this mason is a bricklayer. To me, I am a mason which is a bricklayer but I know you will some how prove me wrong about that too.

Uh.... I think he was just kidding all along. Unless I missed something, there is no need for you to take this so seriously.

 

Oh I am sure you are right, he was kidding all along. Why else would he circle it in red and say if he has to spell it out to me it wouldn't be as funny. I get it, it was funny.

[knowschad]

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

So says the Mason...

 

What is wrong with being a bricklayer?

 

Spoilsport. If I have to spell it out, it's not as funny.

 

 

Google search result: mason secret handshake

 

edit: IBTL^2

 

Spelled out to you The secret order to this mason is a bricklayer. To me, I am a mason which is a bricklayer but I know you will some how prove me wrong about that too.

Uh.... I think he was just kidding all along. Unless I missed something, there is no need for you to take this so seriously.

 

Oh I am sure you are right, he was kidding all along. Why else would he circle it in red and say if he has to spell it out to me it wouldn't be as funny. I get it, it was funny.

 

He circled it in read and said that if he has to spell it out to me it wouldn't be as funny because it was obvious that you didn't get that he was kidding.

[+joranda]

Ihave yet to call the Little Al'e'inn to cancel our reservation. I'm not looking forward to that

Then don't. There are still some amazing caches to be had in that area.

You'll walk away with some great memories, and the local economy gets your dollars.

Sounds like a "Win - Win" to me.

The only change will be the sheer volume of smileys you will accrue during your venture.

What you continue to propose is that other cachers change how they choose to go caching in an effort to make some sort of point. What you are ignoring is that we each get to decide how we want to have fun playing this game.

 

That would be like making plans to go to the Rolling Stones and finding out they cancelled but still going to see the tribute band playing instead that is playing instead of them. I mean, they will still play the same songs it just won't be what you was hoping to go for. Yeah I think I would just call them and cancel. They will understand.

[+joranda]

Oh I get it now. It's a click thing. If you don't know the secert hand shake your not part of the club.

 

So says the Mason...

 

What is wrong with being a bricklayer?

 

Spoilsport. If I have to spell it out, it's not as funny.

 

 

Google search result: mason secret handshake

 

edit: IBTL^2

 

Spelled out to you The secret order to this mason is a bricklayer. To me, I am a mason which is a bricklayer but I know you will some how prove me wrong about that too.

Uh.... I think he was just kidding all along. Unless I missed something, there is no need for you to take this so seriously.

 

Oh I am sure you are right, he was kidding all along. Why else would he circle it in red and say if he has to spell it out to me it wouldn't be as funny. I get it, it was funny.

 

He circled it in read and said that if he has to spell it out to me it wouldn't be as funny because it was obvious that you didn't get that he was kidding.

 

[Clan Riffster]

What you are ignoring is that we each get to decide how we want to have fun playing this game.

You are probably brighter than that. I haven't ignored anything. I simply proposed that they continue their journey to the original locale. If Lil Devil's end goal is to go someplace new, and have a lot of fun, they might consider this. If their goal is only to increase their find count, (which is not, in itself, a bad thing), they might not.

[+sbell111]

What you are ignoring is that we each get to decide how we want to have fun playing this game.

You are probably brighter than that. I haven't ignored anything. I simply proposed that they continue their journey to the original locale. If Lil Devil's end goal is to go someplace new, and have a lot of fun, they might consider this. If their goal is only to increase their find count, (which is not, in itself, a bad thing), they might not.

We still get to decide how we have fun. If I decide that I want to have fun by running a power trail with my buddies, then not running a power trail isn't going to scratch that same itch.

 

I may want to fly across the country to catch a Rolling Stones show. If they cancel the show, however, I am not going to still fly there and listen to other bands at smaller venues.

Edited March 18, 2011 by sbell111

[+humboldt flier]

What you are ignoring is that we each get to decide how we want to have fun playing this game.

You are probably brighter than that. I haven't ignored anything. I simply proposed that they continue their journey to the original locale. If Lil Devil's end goal is to go someplace new, and have a lot of fun, they might consider this. If their goal is only to increase their find count, (which is not, in itself, a bad thing), they might not.

We still get to decide how we have fun. If I decide that I want to have fun by running a power trail with my buddies, then not running a power trail isn't going to scratch that same itch.

 

I may want to fly across the country to catch a Rolling Stones show. If they cancel the show, however, I am not going to still fly there and listen to other bands at smaller venues.

 

Yepper and a tip of the hat for the reasoned and measured response tho an issue that certainly raises the hackles on many.

[Clan Riffster]

That would be like making plans to go to the Rolling Stones and finding out they canceled but still going to see the tribute band playing instead

Uh... OK.

So, a bunch of film cans strewn along a stretch of road = The Rolling Stones in concert.

While caches like Playa, Boot Hill at Pioche, Travertine Hot Springs and Waterwheel = a tribute band.

I guess this is the point where we should agree to disagree.

[+humboldt flier]

Good Morning Riff

[Clan Riffster]

We still get to decide how we have fun.

And the strawman continues. Great. Uh... For the record, has anyone so much as hinted that some other entity is trying to dictate how others have fun?

[Clan Riffster]

Good Morning Riff

Morning!

[+Ecylram]

That would be like making plans to go to the Rolling Stones and finding out they canceled but still going to see the tribute band playing instead

Uh... OK.

So, a bunch of film cans strewn along a stretch of road = The Rolling Stones in concert.

While caches like Playa, Boot Hill at Pioche, Travertine Hot Springs and Waterwheel = a tribute band.

I guess this is the point where we should agree to disagree.

 

I compare it to packing up the whole family into a station wagon for a cross-country trip to Wally World. Only once you get there, the place is closed.

[Clan Riffster]

That would be like making plans to go to the Rolling Stones and finding out they canceled but still going to see the tribute band playing instead

Uh... OK.

So, a bunch of film cans strewn along a stretch of road = The Rolling Stones in concert.

While caches like Playa, Boot Hill at Pioche, Travertine Hot Springs and Waterwheel = a tribute band.

I guess this is the point where we should agree to disagree.

I compare it to packing up the whole family into a station wagon for a cross-country trip to Wally World. Only once you get there, the place is closed.

 

But the KMart across the street is still open.

[+moparots]

But the KMart across the street is still open.

 

Is that where you buy the pellet gun to shoot John Candy in the arm. : )

[Brad_W]

Regrettably, the request to return the discussion to the original topic has been ignored. I guess the original topic has been completely wrung out, so this thread is no longer of use.