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The catch for me is the long involved "lessons" on earth cache pages usually do not sink in with me. I learn absolutely nothing from them because I can't get past the geological language issues. It has been pointed out to me here a couple times that "earth caches aren't for everyone." And maybe that's how people want to keep it.

 

But I learned from reading that cache page information that I did not know before that I will retain without having to do all these scientific tasks that I don't really understand. On caches like that I attempted that sucked the fun right out of my vacation I spent more time trying to figure those logging tasks than learning anything. And all of it was quickly forgotten because it was entirely too complex and detailed for me to retain. I now know something about the Danube I didn't know before.

 

I learned the most from earth cache pages that are not complex. That you are not inundated with information (I understand the reviewers are demanding that now) and that are not written at a level well above what I can understand in geology. Or that have scientific difficult logging tasks that require some basic knowledge of geology because I don't have that. I just flat out don't have that base knowledge. And I'm sure there's others out there that do earth caches with the same issue. I do earth caches to try to learn some basic stuff not to be made to feel like an idiot because I can't understand the page or the tasks. Even locally I've managed to learn stuff and I think that's cool.

 

I enjoy doing earth caches. I don't enjoy this desire to make them overly difficult or more than what they are. I'm there for a wow factor and a little lesson. I don't need all the details. I won't understand it and I'll tune out as fast as I did in high school when it was discussed in science class.

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I learned the most from earth cache pages that are not complex...

 

...I do earth caches to try to learn some basic stuff not to be made to feel like an idiot because I can't understand the page or the tasks. Even locally I've managed to learn stuff and I think that's cool.

 

I enjoy doing earth caches. I don't enjoy this desire to make them overly difficult or more than what they are. I'm there for a wow factor and a little lesson.

 

Great comment, I agree that if we want to educate the masses we have to appeal to people that may not have the background knowledge to fully understand some of the more complicated ECs.

 

I think that if you want to be an elitist or a puritan (with your own definition of what that is) then you should work on your own personal study projects in an effort to expand your understanding. There is a reason why the guidelines ask for descriptions in a 10th grade reading level. This is a family game and as such there are aspects that are for every level of activity and difficulty, we can't knock the 'basic' ECs since they serve a role as well.

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Quality and ease-of-comprehension are built into the guidelines. The fact that many Earthcaches are falling short on either score is a reflection of the manner in which the guidelines are being enforced. Instead of calling people horrible things like "elitist" or "puritan," perhaps we should be asking why these incomprehensible, excessively complex Earthcaches are being published without modification.

 

It's terribly unfair to blame Earthcache owners for "making" people "feel" stupid. Sometimes, people with a high level of knowledge don't understand how to convey information to others in a simple way. Earthcache reviewers should be asking for alterations when a cache description fails to meet the reading level ascribed by the guidelines.

 

And if you start to "feel stupid" because of an Earthcache, try to remind yourself that in all likelihood, that was not the cache owner's intent at all.

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Instead of calling people horrible things like "elitist" or "puritan," perhaps we should be asking why these incomprehensible, excessively complex Earthcaches are being published without modification.

 

Many choose to refer to themselves as elitists and puritans, it is not a derogatory remark (at least it wasn't meant to be :ph34r:), much less a HORRIBLE thing to call someone. :blink:

 

Earthcache reviewers should be asking for alterations when a cache description fails to meet the reading level ascribed by the guidelines.

 

Agreed! :D

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I think that if you want to be an elitist or a puritan (with your own definition of what that is) then you should work on your own personal study projects in an effort to expand your understanding. There is a reason why the guidelines ask for descriptions in a 10th grade reading level.

 

It is ok for me if the description is at 10-th grade reading level (at least at what this means in my country and if it is meant as average level and not of the level of those who fail at that grade). I did not learn anything essential about geology in school after 10-th grade.

Moreover, at 10-th grade reading level does not necessarily mean that one never has to look up some term. A 10-th grader has already been taught to use books and to look up terms that he is not familiar with. Of course, there should not be too many of them, but also in school this is expected as part of the teaching process. Otherwise it would nbe hard to learn something new.

(Yes, I know that there are many who do not like to learn and who hated school, but I do not think that ECs are the ideal object for this group, except in the case that they changed their attitude towards learning in later stages of their lifes.)

 

Still I expect that an EC teaches me something which (1) I can learn better and more impressively right at the spot (reading some data about a river I can do perfectly at home) and (2) the on-site tasks should have a geology context. Counting the number of information boards, cobble stones or telling the colour of the right corner of the information table does not conform to my expectation of an Earthcache.

 

I was able to count and to read at the age of 6 (the counting tasks asked at some ECs are at the level of children who are 3 years old). So there is a huge gap between 10-th grade level and stubborn logging tasks.

 

 

 

This is a family game and as such there are aspects that are for every level of activity and difficulty, we can't knock the 'basic' ECs since they serve a role as well.

 

I have seen e.g. nicely done ECs about waterfalls that are quite simple and still they require that the visitor deals with the topic of the EC and is not just asked to perform tasks that are meaningless with regard to geology.

I rather would like to see such caches as normal caches with a container or as new virtuals. They certainly have a right to exist. I just would prefer not to have them as ECs if they fail in the central teaching aspect.

 

I agree that many ECs have complicated descriptions. Surprisingly often the reason for that is not that the cache creator is elitist and/or an expert in the field. It is just that they are copying material from the internet without (fully) understanding what they write about and that's the case also for some of the reviewers. Try to ask them and you will see that I am right.

The problem is that there are way too many submissions (the reviewers all have their private lives and their jobs and they are volunteers) and the earthcache masters program encourages this.

It would take much more time to discuss with every single EC creator his write-up and to ask for an write-up at the appropriate level.

 

While I think that an EC should be accessible to many people, I do not think that everyone is able to come up with a decent EC.

A good EC requires more knowledge that what the average cacher has who has not dealt with geology previosly and who is not willing to learn before coming up with his own EC. Of course, there are positive examples. Some of the EC creators here with 10+ ECs demonstrate this very well - many of them do not have a geology background, but they have invested a lot of time to learn about the field and then into trying to make others learn as well. Many of those who come up with their own ECs just to fulfill the masters requirement do not fall into this category, however (at least this is the case in German-speaking countries - I am not familiar enough with the situation in the US).

 

To sum up my personal opinion (stress on personal - the EC program is not my program): Yes to simple ECs, but no to ECs which fail on teaching something about geology that is well-suitable to be learnt at the shown spot.

 

PS: I have looked at your EC in Greece. That's a very nice EC from my point of view and it offers some learning experience directly at the spot that is not stubborn (of course an experienced geologist will not learn something new, but that was not my point). And also the one in Italy has logging tasks that are not just there to prove that I have been there, but serve a purpose.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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Moreover, at 10-th grade reading level does not necessarily mean that one never has to look up some term.

 

At the peril of incurring rancor, I think it's important to note that education systems are not created equally. My idea and your idea of what a tenth grader should be able to handle may vary considerably from what the Geological Society of America has in mind.

 

I would certainly expect an average-to-bright 10th grade student from an Ontario public school to have some grounding in basic geography and geology and the ability to use common reference books, but I suspect this may not be a reasonable expectation for students from other school systems.

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Moreover, at 10-th grade reading level does not necessarily mean that one never has to look up some term.

 

At the peril of incurring rancor, I think it's important to note that education systems are not created equally. My idea and your idea of what a tenth grader should be able to handle may vary considerably from what the Geological Society of America has in mind.

 

I agree with you. I think, however, that what the Geological Society of America has in mind does not play a big role in this matter for two reasons. The first is the one I have mentioned already before, namely that the reviewers do not have the time to have a detailed look on the write-up and to discuss the level of the used language with the creator of the description. The second is that with the introduction of a diverse teams of reviewers, many of whom do not have any connection to geology and the GSA, even in theory it would not be possible any longer to follow a consistent approach.

 

In any case I think that an EC that is at the level that it, for example, appeals also to a functional analphabet will get boring for almost all other cachers. If the main idea about a cache is just to show a nice location which appeals to the eyes, then a normal cache or a virtual cache are the better alternative than an EC. From an EC I expect a learning experience. BTW: I looked at your ECs. They look fine to me. In general, I have the feeling that the US and Canada do not get that many EC submissions which are mainly created for statistics reasons (including the masters program) than some countries in Europe. Most people writing here have no idea how the situation in Europe (e.g. in countries like Germany) looks like. The fact that the new EC there are almost exclusively in German only makes the issue even more complicated.

 

From my personal point of view, not only the adequate level of the description should be checked by the EC reviewers, but also the correctness. The scenario that EC descriptions contain bogus information and that the majority of the visitors thank for the learning experience is nothing utopic with the current system.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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Moreover, at 10-th grade reading level does not necessarily mean that one never has to look up some term.

 

At the peril of incurring rancor, I think it's important to note that education systems are not created equally. My idea and your idea of what a tenth grader should be able to handle may vary considerably from what the Geological Society of America has in mind.

 

I agree with you. I think, however, that what the Geological Society of America has in mind does not play a big role in this matter for two reasons. The first is the one I have mentioned already before, namely that the reviewers do not have the time to have a detailed look on the write-up and to discuss the level of the used language with the creator of the description. The second is that with the introduction of a diverse teams of reviewers, many of whom do not have any connection to geology and the GSA, even in theory it would not be possible any longer to follow a consistent approach.

 

In any case I think that an EC that is at the level that it, for example, appeals also to a functional analphabet will get boring for almost all other cachers. If the main idea about a cache is just to show a nice location which appeals to the eyes, then a normal cache or a virtual cache are the better alternative than an EC. From an EC I expect a learning experience. BTW: I looked at your ECs. They look fine to me. In general, I have the feeling that the US and Canada do not get that many EC submissions which are mainly created for statistics reasons (including the masters program) than some countries in Europe. Most people writing here have no idea how the situation in Europe (e.g. in countries like Germany) looks like. The fact that the new EC there are almost exclusively in German only makes the issue even more complicated.

 

From my personal point of view, not only the adequate level of the description should be checked by the EC reviewers, but also the correctness. The scenario that EC descriptions contain bogus information and that the majority of the visitors thank for the learning experience is nothing utopic with the current system.

 

Cezanne

 

I wish this thread was kept on topic rather than being dragged into your debate about the qualities of the EarthCache reviewer team (which, BTW, I take offense to your remarks as you continue to spread the amazing misconception that they have no connection to geology etc etc. For the record, you are incorrect....and I think maybe an apology is in order.....but in another thread!).

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Ditto to geoaware's statement!

It's awful easy to criticize one's work when you have never attempted it yourself i.e. developed an EC!

Let the new program roll on and let's all hold our venom until then. In other words, keep the criticism for something unknown to your self until it is actually known.

Thanks.

P.S. My caching partner and I found 4 ECs yesterday and perish the thought, they may have been inspired by the Masters program. If they were, thank goodness for the program!

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

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Still I expect that an EC teaches me something which (1) I can learn better and more impressively right at the spot (reading some data about a river I can do perfectly at home) and (2) the on-site tasks should have a geology context. Counting the number of information boards, cobble stones or telling the colour of the right corner of the information table does not conform to my expectation of an Earthcache.

 

I couldn't agree more, well put.

 

To sum up my personal opinion (stress on personal - the EC program is not my program): Yes to simple ECs, but no to ECs which fail on teaching something about geology that is well-suitable to be learnt at the shown spot.

 

I can't argue with that.

 

PS: I have looked at your EC in Greece. That's a very nice EC from my point of view and it offers some learning experience directly at the spot that is not stubborn (of course an experienced geologist will not learn something new, but that was not my point). And also the one in Italy has logging tasks that are not just there to prove that I have been there, but serve a purpose.

 

Thank you for your kindness. I will be the first to admit that my caches are at a simple level in terms of geology. I hope that as my experience grows I will be able to address more complex themes in a simple and easy to understand way. For now that is what I got, lol!

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I wish this thread was kept on topic rather than being dragged into your debate about the qualities of the EarthCache reviewer team

 

I just want to put this right here. I never ever intended to start a debate about the qualities of the team. If you or someone else understood it that way, I am apoligizing for this

right now. My main point here is about my belief that is shared by

many other cachers in Europe that the masters program degrades the quality of Earthcaches. As your topic here has the name "Earthcache masters" I feel that my main

point is on topic. I was not on topic with all my comments, but the same is true for many other postings here as well.

Your thread title did not say that the thread is just to appraise the Earthcache masters program and just to write about how happy we are all about further levels.

 

As the reviewers are concerned (I am getting off-topic here): Some of what I wrote here even defended them. I mentioned several times here and at other places that what yould be required to ensure what the Earthcache guidelines state (e.g. the level of the used language) is more than one can expect from the EC reviewers, in particular those with a heavy working load. They are volunteers.

 

 

 

(which, BTW, I take offense to your remarks as you continue to spread the amazing misconception that they have no connection to geology etc etc. For the record, you are incorrect....and I think maybe an apology is in order.....but in another thread!).

 

I will start a new thread with some questions to you regarding the review of Earthcaches. In case all reviewers really have a university degree in geology or something closely related, then the only alternative idea I have is that they do not have the time to read the descriptions or that in contrary to my expectation this is not even part of their job (maybe that's the solution of the puzzle).

 

Cezanne

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It's awful easy to criticize one's work when you have never attempted it yourself i.e. developed an EC!

 

Actually, I have contributed by producing several translations of ECs and helping others with their ECs.

As an EC of my own is regarded, I first would need to try to reach a special agreeement for me allowing me to

publish my EC only in English and having it reviewed by a non-German EC reviewer.

Maybe that would work out, but I did not had the time to check out the details.

In any case, I am not willing to let me force to use German for my geocaching work (neither the description nor the

correspondence with the reviewers). For normal geocaches my approach still works very well (I just had a cache approved a couple

of days ago - so the situation has not changed). For me it is still absurd that I need to try to undergo a special

process to be allowed to use the official language of this website for my Earthcaches.

 

Moreover, note that my intent is not to criticize anyone's work. It is to convey my disappointment about many developments

with regard to Earthcaching including the masters program (the old and the new one) and the changed language guideline and the

changed guideline with regard to logging tasks.

 

When I write that I have looked at some of your ECs and regard them as nice contributions and

would like to visit them, this is my honest opinion and is at the same level than my disappointment about many ECs much closer

to my home. I like to be authentic. I do not appreciate any ECs just because they are ECs and just because someone put some work

into it. I am the only one who can decide what I regard as fun and what I enjoy. I was very happy with the first ECs and from year to

year I more and more got disillusioned. I am willing to take the responsability for that on my side. My disasspointment is probably due

to my wrong expectations about the EC program. Still I do have proof that many ECs that I do not like are not liked by their creators as well

and are just the product of the masters program. If nice ECs are the outcome of the masters program, that's fine. I am concerned

about the number of not nice ones.

 

 

Let the new program roll on and let's all hold our venom until then. In other words, keep the criticism for something unknown to your self until it is actually known.

 

My point was that I am already very unhappy with the effects of the already existing program. I'd prefer if that program did not exist at all.

 

Yes, I know I am quite alone here. The reason is that almost no cachers from Europe care to write in this forum at all. The disappointment about the development

of Earthcaches from something very execeptional to something comparable to normal cachers is shared by the majority of the cachers in my home area.

 

 

P.S. My caching partner and I found 4 ECs yesterday and perish the thought, they may have been inspired by the Masters program. If they were, thank goodness for the program!

 

If the ECs were a nice experience for you, then certainly whether or not they are motivated by the masters program does not play a role.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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I wish this thread was kept on topic

 

I thought a while what went wrong in this thread which apparently caused at least you and me to become angry.

I am sure that I would not have written several postings in this thread in case you once had acknowledged that the masters

program does not have only positive effects and that it is well conceivable that apart from the positive effects that exist

for sure there are also negative ones (not necessarily distributed in the same away all over the world).

I guess that I simply have a problem with the sort of attitude that everything is wonderful and everyone is (should be) happy.

I am sorry for having caused you inconveniences. The best (for me and you and others) will probably be that I stop looking at EC pages at all and

start to ignore ECs at all (as some of my friends already do). This will save me from too many disappointments and you from

debates you do not like to be involved into.

 

Cezanne

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I wish this thread was kept on topic

 

I thought a while what went wrong in this thread which apparently caused at least you and me to become angry.

I am sure that I would not have written several postings in this thread in case you once had acknowledged that the masters

program does not have only positive effects and that it is well conceivable that apart from the positive effects that exist

for sure there are also negative ones (not necessarily distributed in the same away all over the world).

I guess that I simply have a problem with the sort of attitude that everything is wonderful and everyone is (should be) happy.

I am sorry for having caused you inconveniences. The best (for me and you and others) will probably be that I stop looking at EC pages at all and

start to ignore ECs at all (as some of my friends already do). This will save me from too many disappointments and you from

debates you do not like to be involved into.

 

Cezanne

 

At no time have I suggested that you are not allowed to spell out your opinion on any issue...and I would be the first to admit that any program has a negative side, and maybe, in the case of the Masters program it has been an increase in submissions that do not meet the guidelines.

 

This topic is, however, about the program and NOT about the review team!

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Are there "weak" ECs out there that have been placed by people on a quest to achieve EC Master status? -- YES, of course. (By weak, I mean minimally meeting the guidelines, perhaps just enough to warrant publishing.)

 

Are there excellent ECs out there that have been placed by people on a quest to achieve Master status? -- YES!

 

Are there weak ECs, placed by people w/ no interest in Master status? -- YES!

 

Are there excellent ECs, placed by people w/ no interest in Master status? -- YES!

 

With or without a Masters program or other incentive system, there will be stronger ECs and weaker ECs. Every EC can't be average :)

I would propose that the Masters program has resulted in many more strong ECs than it has weak ECs. I also believe that if somebody develops multiple ECs, they get stronger each time. After having their first EC published, I've had developers thank me for helping the review process along, and stating that they feel as though their future ECs will be better. So perhaps some of the "weak" ECs are also "first" ECs for some.

 

Besides, it has been stated that the new incentive program will be based on EC finds, not EC development. I would think this would be good news for those who believe the Masters program had a negative impact by encouraging more weak EC development.

 

Regarding the questions about the work and role of reviewers, the best way to learn about that is to:

A. Submit an EC for review.

B. Volunteer to become an EC reviewer.

Edited by geoawareHQ

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Are there "weak" ECs out there that have been placed by people on a quest to achieve EC Master status? -- YES, of course. (By weak, I mean minimally meeting the guidelines, perhaps just enough to warrant publishing.)

 

Are there excellent ECs out there that have been placed by people on a quest to achieve Master status? -- YES!

 

I agree. What I meant is however something different.

 

With or without a Masters program or other incentive system, there will be stronger ECs and weaker ECs

 

Full ack. My hypothesis is that in countries like Germany and Austria there would exist a smaller number of weak ones without

such incentive systems. There is a shortage of really interesting EC locations which can be turned into ECs by non-geologists

and it is not a good idea if too many people

try to obtain 3 hidden ECs within a short period of time. Then almost all good locations are used up and many by people who

were in a hurry and did not invest the required time to come up with a better EC.

The worst period was in Summer 2009.

 

Besides, it has been stated that the new incentive program will be based on EC finds, not EC development. I would think this would be good news for those who believe the Masters program had a negative impact by encouraging more weak EC development.

 

This overlooks the fact that those who will need more finds to obtain the next levels, need more ECs in their areas. So what will happen? They will team up and will create new ECs for one another. I know there are ECs who worked on the Platinum level for quite some time and it was hard for them as they had to travel far. The situation in my country is quite different. Someone living in Vienna has a vers short way to the nearest ECs in Burgenland and Lower Austria and this already yields 3 countries/states. If new levels encouraged more people to travel to other countries, that would be fine for me, but actually that's apparently not the goal of the GSA any longer as they have removed the requirement for English descriptions thus turning ECs into something quite local.

 

 

Regarding the questions about the work and role of reviewers, the best way to learn about that is to:

A. Submit an EC for review.

B. Volunteer to become an EC reviewer.

 

Ad A: I asked my questions because watching the work of the reviewers (I have been forwarded the comments the reviewers sent to EC developpers several times to provide help) did not answer them. Submitting an EC with no prior special agreement would just end up in me becoming furious again about the language guideline and about getting German replies to English questions.

 

BTW: While some cachers regard it as funny to try to play a trick on the EC reviewers and try to see what they overlook (not every example is as extreme as the case of the pool cache in Germany), this is not my personal style. I neither want to waste my time nor the precious time of the reviewers. I think it is better style to ask questions one might have in a forum.

 

Ad B:

I do not have a university degree in geology (or something very related, at least at masters level) which I regard as necessary, but not sufficient qualification for that job.

Moreover, I am not a diplomat at all and I do not like to work with people. There are still other requirements that a good reviewer should fulfill - back at the times when Erik

had been reviewer in Austria (a very happy time) I always admired him for his perfection in this regard (I still admire him, but he is not any longer reviewer in my country).

My expectations on the EC program are high and much higher than what I would be able to achieve. My background is a completely different one. There are things that I can do very well and other where I know that my performance is weak or at least weaker than what I regard as minimum level.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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This topic is, however, about the program and NOT about the review team!

 

I agree, and as I said before, I apologize for the off-topic part. My intent was, however, not to write about the review team and not even about the review process. T

The problem for me was that several

people in this thread urged me to provide a proof for my belief that the masters program has a negative effect on the quality of some ECs in my area.

It is hard te reply to this (as they do not know my area and moreover, it is my subjective feeling) and even harder without digressing from the original topic.

 

Let me stress again: When I talk about weak ECs, I talk about ECs that fulfill the requirements (at least in most cases - where they don't it is not really

the fault of the reviewers as they cannot check all details). So the reviewers are not to blame for the existence of those ECs. (It is another topic that I feel

that the minimum requirement for ECs is too low. BTW: Interestingly, this opinion seems to be shared also by at least one Earthcache reviewer -

he encouraged the cachers who are not satisfied with the EC quality to become active and to contact the GSA/Groundspeak in order to obtain some change.

For your reference, see the post of geoawarede3 in this thread http://www.geoclub.de/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=46706&start=20 unfortunately in German only. I will try to translate the last part of his post (in my own words and avoiding language not really suited for this forum) which roughly says "Especially in Germany, and in this regard I share the community's opinion, we currently experience many awful EC submissions, e.g. rescue platforms, fountains, memorials, graves etc. If the community should be interested into hiher quality ECs, then get active and ask the owner of the site for higher quality requirements. They provide us reviewers with the basis for your work. We do not invent the guidelines themselves.")

 

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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Four new levels based on EarthCache finds only. No state/country specifications.

 

I would prefer a bonus for high quality EarthCache placements and not for any sort

of numbers.

 

Cezanne

 

Alot of high quality ECs are gone.

I agree. Many of those were in Cumberland Gap National Park. We were some of the last to tour Cudjo's Cave, what some great uploads we had. Now that one is gone forever. WNS in bats in the area will prevent any future cave EC's. Even the tours are very limited now. There were no cave tours in a local State Park last year because of WNS, not sure about this year either.

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News ...snippet...

 

Four new levels based on EarthCache finds only. No state/country specifications.

 

More information coming soon....

When do you think the news will break on this? I'm very curious about what's in store..

Edited by KNAPAHOLIC

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News ...snippet...

 

Four new levels based on EarthCache finds only. No state/country specifications.

 

More information coming soon....

When do you think the news will break on this? I'm very curious about what's in store..

 

Soon :P

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News ...snippet...

 

Four new levels based on EarthCache finds only. No state/country specifications.

 

More information coming soon....

When do you think the news will break on this? I'm very curious about what's in store..

 

Soon :P

We are still working on our Platinum level, but have fallen behind in developing any EC's. Are EC's not as popular anymore? Are less people submitting them for review? My son and I need to get to working on some new ones for our area. We don't have many EC's or Virtuals.

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News ...snippet...

 

Four new levels based on EarthCache finds only. No state/country specifications.

 

More information coming soon....

When do you think the news will break on this? I'm very curious about what's in store..

 

Soon :P

We are still working on our Platinum level, but have fallen behind in developing any EC's. Are EC's not as popular anymore? Are less people submitting them for review? My son and I need to get to working on some new ones for our area. We don't have many EC's or Virtuals.

 

Quite the opposite - we are getting more submissions for EC than ever before! And as summer approaches in the northern hemisphere, that will get even better!

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You have to apply for each level to be sent the icons.

 

We are planning to release some new levels during 2011 :D More news on that in a few months.

I'm ready for the new levels. Will past finds be usable for the new levels?

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You have to apply for each level to be sent the icons.

 

We are planning to release some new levels during 2011 :D More news on that in a few months.

I'm ready for the new levels. Will past finds be usable for the new levels?

 

I think you should be made to start all over! Just kidding. lol

P.S. You should also be made to turn in any previously awarded pin/badge! :ph34r:

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I am excited as I can be, new levels :antenna:! So, I ask, what is the turn around time if we are still submitting for Gold and Platinum levels? When will the new ones be out, officially? Are they going to be similar to the "hands" of Earthtrek?

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The new program will be launched in just a few weeks.....

 

B)

Time to put this thread on my watch list then.

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The new program will be launched in just a few weeks.....

 

B)

 

Oh!

Can't wait!

You teaser!

 

Love EarthCaches!

Always thinking of putting up my first EC somewhere...

Just haven't explored the world enough since discovering Geocaching.

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Geoaware, maybe you could just turn the entire program over to Cezanne, all your problems would be solved.

Edited by kwhart

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Geoaware, maybe you could just turn the entire program over to Cezanne, all your problems would be solved.

:tired:

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Any update on the arrival date of the New EC levels???? I seem to be in a caching slump and some new EC levels might be just what is needed to get my hiney kick started.

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Any update on the arrival date of the New EC levels???? I seem to be in a caching slump and some new EC levels might be just what is needed to get my hiney kick started.

 

Please be patient. Our friend in Germany is working on it as Geoaware's consultant! Just kidding! lol

 

P.S. I too am anxious to see the new program. We found our 250th EC the other day. I'm also working one in the Cayman Islands. :)

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Snippet of details.....

 

There will be five levels - based on the number of finds. Some of you will already have reached the first two..and maybe one or two of you have made it to the third level. The upper levels will require some serious EarthCaching! But super worth the effort....

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Snippet of details.....

 

There will be five levels - based on the number of finds. Some of you will already have reached the first two..and maybe one or two of you have made it to the third level. The upper levels will require some serious EarthCaching! But super worth the effort....

 

Wow ???? A little bit daunting for us here in areas of the world where there are very few EC's around!

 

It took me years to make the 25 for Platinum.

 

I wonder when we'll get up the ranks now!

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Wow ???? A little bit daunting for us here in areas of the world where there are very few EC's around!

 

It took me years to make the 25 for Platinum.

 

I wonder when we'll get up the ranks now!

 

In any case, you have come up with a considerable number of well-done Earthcaches and in my opinion that's of higher value than any of the new ranks can ever be. Of course that's only my personal opinion and I do understand your frustration about the small number of ECs in your area.

 

In any case, I do hope that the new ranks will not be used in a way that cachers who achieve higher ranks are regarded as better cachers/people and that one of these ranks will be needed e.g. to be eligible for the special reception mentioned in connection with the Earthcache event in 2012.

 

Cezanne

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Geoaware, maybe you could just turn the entire program over to Cezanne, all your problems would be solved.

 

Certainly not. I would never be able to do the work of geoaware and I have never claimed that I could.

In the same way as others have the right here to react enthusiastically about the planned new levels, I have the right to voice my criticism.

I'm admiring geoaware's dedication to the EC program, but at the same time there are aspects about the program that I personally do not like. What's bad about that? I am not automatically positive about whatever is proposed. One of the major goals of geoaware is to achieve a big outreach while I rather would like to see a somehow more exclusive EC program that focuses on those really interested into geology and not trying to teach a little bit to those not really interested. That's simply a matter of philosophy and geoaware's approach is certainly much better suited for the masses.

 

Cezanne

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cezanne, wasn't your earlier gripe that the masters program was the reason too many 'inferior' ECs were being developed? I didn't bother to go back to reread your earlier posts (once was enough), but I am sure your thesis was based that the downside of the program was poor ECs. If so, why would you have any gripes with the new program which has the total emphasis on finding earthcaches. Do you think the program will create some sort of EC Finders Cult?

Yes, we know that some live in areas with abundant earthcaches and others do not. Who said life is fair? We also appreciate that there are others whom cannot get out to find ECs because of physical limitations. I wish that was not so, but it is a reality. Again, sometimes life is not fair. With my age, in the not too distant future, I will not be able to seek out the 4 and 5 terrain ECs. I will not like it, but that's life!

Maybe if you developed a few earthcaches yourself instead of all the criticism, others would follow suit and more ECs would be available. You can't have it both ways. You gripe about too many poor ECs and yet complain about too few ECs to find! Ar least some folks are helping the game by trying their hand at developing earthcaches! In my opinion, developing ECs is the greatest contribution we can make. Sure it is tough, but if we all just sit in the bleachers and not join in the game there wouldn't be a game!

Thanks.

 

P.S. Please explain the seemingly contradiction of these two statements of yours. On one hand you don't want:

"cachers who achieve higher ranks are regarded as better cachers/people"

Yet you propose:

"I rather would like to see a somehow more exclusive EC program that focuses on those really interested into geology and not trying to teach a little bit to those not really interested."

I may be wrong, but in your mind, you appear to be trading one elitist group for another. Why not be more inclusive?

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

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Just stepping in to remind folks to stay on the topic of the EarthCache Masters program. The new changes are going to be exciting for many of us and the full details will be along shortly.

 

Speculation about the changes is fine, as is discussion of possible ways to create positive changes to the levels. I know we'd all like to keep this thread open.

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Sorry, but I thought the topic was the Earthcache Master Program and I simply responded to someone's unjust criticism of it. Even though I totally disagree with her criticism, it was about the EC Masters Program and my response was to her criticism of The Earthcache Masters Program. Thanks.

Isn't it a little early to suggest that you would close the thread?

Opinion and opinion only, lately you folks have been a bit quick to close or threaten to close threads! Thanks for listening.

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cezanne, wasn't your earlier gripe that the masters program was the reason too many 'inferior' ECs were being developed?

 

One of the reasons in German-speaking countries, yes.

 

I didn't bother to go back to reread your earlier posts (once was enough), but I am sure your thesis was based that the downside of the program was poor ECs. If so, why would you have any gripes with the new program which has the total emphasis on finding earthcaches. Do you think the program will create some sort of EC Finders Cult?

 

The emphasis will still not be a on quality, but on numbers.

I am also against badges and other sorts of awards - within and outside of Earthcaching.

 

Maybe if you developed a few earthcaches yourself instead of all the criticism, others would follow suit and more ECs would be available.

 

I am not looking for more ECs. I prefer very few exceptionally well-done ECs to a large number of mediocre ones.

ECs are something special for me. I do not care that much about lame caches with physical containers. Lame ECs are something I find disappointing as my expectations for an EC are many levels higher than for a normal cache.

 

You can't have it both ways. You gripe about too many poor ECs and yet complain about too few ECs to find! Ar least some folks are helping the game by trying their hand at developing earthcaches! In my opinion, developing ECs is the greatest contribution we can make. Sure it is tough, but if we all just sit in the bleachers and not join in the game there wouldn't be a game!

Thanks.

 

With no masters program around, numbers would not play any role at all. A location that is very interesting from the geological point of view, will also exist in three years from now on.

We can wait until someone who is really dedicated and knowledgeable comes around and develops an EC there. It need not be the first cacher who wants to come with an EC. Of course, that's my personal, subjective opinion. I am well aware of the fact that many EC-visitors do not care about the set-up and only about the location.

 

P.S. Please explain the seemingly contradiction of these two statements of yours. On one hand you don't want:

"cachers who achieve higher ranks are regarded as better cachers/people"

Yet you propose:

"I rather would like to see a somehow more exclusive EC program that focuses on those really interested into geology and not trying to teach a little bit to those not really interested."

I may be wrong, but in your mind, you appear to be trading one elitist group for another. Why not be more inclusive?

 

If you just look at these sentences in an isolated way outside of the context in which I have written them, you are right.

As the first sentence is regarded, it referred to the geoaware's announcement "A special reception will be held for high-level EarthCache Masters" in connection with the Earthcache event to be held in 2012.

Of course, he did not define what's high-level. In any case, I feel that the set-up of high-quality ECs should count more than some mere numbers. I have no plan whatsoever to attend the event and I do not like to participate in large meetings at all regardless of what they are about. I have no personal interest into who is invited to the special reception. I just feel that cachers like Carbon Hunter deserve it more than someone who has found 200 ECs in an area abundant of ECs.

 

As my second statement is regarded, it is a merely personal one. A program that is interesting for the masses, will typically not be interesting for me. It can certainly exist - I do not have any problem with it. I am still allowed to wish that something existed that appeals also to me.

 

Cezanne

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Just stepping in to remind folks to stay on the topic of the EarthCache Masters program. The new changes are going to be exciting for many of us and the full details will be along shortly.

 

Speculation about the changes is fine, as is discussion of possible ways to create positive changes to the levels. I know we'd all like to keep this thread open.

 

What is off-topic about negative comments about the EC Masters program? I respect that many will be excited about the new levels (as they are about the old levels), but it's not the case for me.

Personally, I'd prefer if no EC Masters program existed at all.

 

Cezanne

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Just stepping in to remind folks to stay on the topic of the EarthCache Masters program. The new changes are going to be exciting for many of us and the full details will be along shortly.

 

Speculation about the changes is fine, as is discussion of possible ways to create positive changes to the levels. I know we'd all like to keep this thread open.

 

What is off-topic about negative comments about the EC Masters program? I respect that many will be excited about the new levels (as they are about the old levels), but it's not the case for me.

Personally, I'd prefer if no EC Masters program existed at all.

 

Cezanne

Cezanne, while I couldn't disagree with you more and am looking forward to the new Masters program, I defend your right to speak out and believe you/we were on topic. Please give the new program a chance. Who knows, maybe you will see some benefit. I also know that some folks do suffer from a lack of numerous ECs and I wish that wasn't true, but not all situations can be accommodated. Thanks. :)

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Cezanne, while I couldn't disagree with you more and am looking forward to the new Masters program, I defend your right to speak out and believe you/we were on topic. Please give the new program a chance. Who knows, maybe you will see some benefit.

 

I respect the new program. Moreover, I am sure that the new levels will bring joy to many cachers as have the old levels in the past and will continue to do so in the future. So the masters program has certainly positive effects. I am quite sceptical, however, that the program will ever bring joy to me, but who knows. Whether I like the program is not important for the program on the large scale as of course no program can fit for everyone.

 

BTW: I would be interested to learn whether the new levels will be set into a hierarchy with the old ones. Will Platinum Earthcache Masters still remain high level Earthcachers (in the sense used by geoaware) even if they do not fulfill the additional levels (or not all of them)?

 

Cezanne

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There will be five levels - based on the number of finds. Some of you will already have reached the first two..and maybe one or two of you have made it to the third level. The upper levels will require some serious EarthCaching! But super worth the effort....

 

I wonder how large the levels will be, or better yet what will be their scope. Some of the active forum members here have upwards of 100 EC finds. Gary seemed pretty confident that we would all have to do some work in order to make advancement. It almost insinuates that no one will automatically have the "top level". Interesting...

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There will be five levels - based on the number of finds. Some of you will already have reached the first two..and maybe one or two of you have made it to the third level. The upper levels will require some serious EarthCaching! But super worth the effort....

 

I wonder how large the levels will be, or better yet what will be their scope. Some of the active forum members here have upwards of 100 EC finds. Gary seemed pretty confident that we would all have to do some work in order to make advancement. It almost insinuates that no one will automatically have the "top level". Interesting...

 

Maybe there are additional requirements like at least x ECs on y continents in z countries etc

 

Cezanne

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That would be great! Or maybe there can be a distinction for types of ECs?

 

Now here is another thought: Will this new set of levels be a continuation of the first levels or will they fundtion as a separate entity? Will you now be a Platinum ECM and a Grand Pooba EC Overlord (or whatever)?

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I trust that it will be multi-faceted - e.g. a Red level for many hides and a Green level for many finds and a Purple level for finds on different continents/countries - rather than a single Uber-Platinum/Diamond level for the select few that can do it all.

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Interesting. I assumed that it would be solely based on finds, but you are probably right, it will almost need to incorporate all the different aspects of earthcaching.

 

I wonder if it will be vastly different from the original levels then, will it be a matter of separate qualifications and separate awards? The originals (Bronze to Platinum) incorporated both hides and finds, my understanding is that the new levels will be more focused on finds than hides, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

Unless Gary wants to tell us more!?! :P:ph34r:

 

Edited for wrong verbage.

Edited by Flintstone5611

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Snippets......

 

It will be solely based on finds (not hides).

It will be a separate program from the EarthCache Masters program and they will not be linked.

 

Gary

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