Is this advertising?

[+leejas72]

My husband is trying to be supportive about my addiction to Geocaching. His business has a A- frame sign out front advertising their hours and specials. This sign is outside of the business from 7am to 9pm. He wants to know if I would be willing to put a cache on the sign and he would add "Geocachers Welcome" to the sign.

I wanted to check to make sure this wasn't going against any rules and was perfectly "GC.com legal"

The cache itself won't contain anything that says anything about the business only be located on the sign.

Does this sound acceptable?

Thanks for your responses in advance.

[+Lil Devil]

As long as you don't mention the business on the cache page, then the cache would meet the guidelines.

 

However some cachers would still complain.

[+DragonsWest]

Sounds like advertising to me, even with the welcome.

 

I know sites around my locale which are businesses which allow caches on their premises.

 

Generally the cache listing is more of this flavor, 'The owner of the business the cache is on is aware of its presence and has given permission for the hide, please do not try to find in the middle of the night as local law enforcement/private security may be concerned.'

Edited August 2, 2010 by DragonsWest

[+ras_oscar]

Recently found a cache that contained a letter of welcome from the town mayor. No mention of the civic connection on the cache page so it was published. I had no problem with the town connection or the town related swag inside.

[+DragonsWest]

Recently found a cache that contained a letter of welcome from the town mayor. No mention of the civic connection on the cache page so it was published. I had no problem with the town connection or the town related swag inside.

 

That's a very cool mayor!

[+leejas72]

Sounds like advertising to me, even with the welcome.

 

I know sites around my locale which are businesses which allow caches on their premises.

 

Generally the cache listing is more of this flavor, 'The owner of the business the cache is on is aware of its presence and has given permission for the hide, please do not try to find in the middle of the night as local law enforcement/private security may be concerned.'

 

This is also how we would have it. Owner aware of cache and has given permission. Then on the sign itself would just say Geocachers Welcome. The cache would have nothing about the business in it, or on the cache page.

This was just my husbands way of being supportive. Maybe leaving the Welcome sign off would be the way to go.

[knowschad]

I just found one that was hidden outside of a gift and flower shop in a tiny Minnesota town. As I was looking, the owner of the shop came out and gave me some gentle hints (didn't really need them, but thanks anyway). The owner was a very nice woman by the name of Bernie, and the cache name reflected that... but not the name of the shop. It was very cool.

[+narcissa]

You could probably arrange it so the cache page gets by review.

 

The reason the guidelines prohibit advertising on cache pages is to prevent the game from being co-opted for commercial purposes. If you're placing a cache in order to bring people to your husband's business, you're really not in keeping with the intention of the guidelines.

 

If your husband is just generously donating some space for a cache, then keep the cache away from the sign and don't put anything about geocachers being welcome. Just place the cache and leave the business out of it.

[Difficult Run]

You could probably arrange it so the cache page gets by review.

 

The reason the guidelines prohibit advertising on cache pages is to prevent the game from being co-opted for commercial purposes. If you're placing a cache in order to bring people to your husband's business, you're really not in keeping with the intention of the guidelines.

 

If your husband is just generously donating some space for a cache, then keep the cache away from the sign and don't put anything about geocachers being welcome. Just place the cache and leave the business out of it.

+1

[+Walts Hunting]

I would have a problem with the sign only being out during certain hours and you didn't mention if the business is closed on certain days (weekends, holidays, etc).

 

A significant number of cachers don't read the description and would be there looking for it during times it wasn't available. I have found caches inside of business' but at least since it is closed you don't continue to look.

[+roziecakes]

I would have a problem with the sign only being out during certain hours and you didn't mention if the business is closed on certain days (weekends, holidays, etc).

 

A significant number of cachers don't read the description and would be there looking for it during times it wasn't available. I have found caches inside of business' but at least since it is closed you don't continue to look.

 

+1

 

I wouldn't put the cache on the sign itself, but maybe at a different spot in front of the business, and like others have said, don't mention the name of the business on the cache page, but just say that it's on private property with permission from the owner.

[+wimseyguy]

To be gc.com legal as you put it, you need to comply with the guidelines, especially the commercial cache one in this situation.

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

 

So as long as your cache page text complies, your cache can be listed here.

I too own a small business, and wouldn't use a cache to drive business here. To me it just smells wrong. But I have seen caches outside other small businesses, and it seems to work ok for them.

Edited August 2, 2010 by wimseyguy

[+Chokecherry]

I had this talk with someone one day who wanted to hide a cache at a business for advertising basically. Wouldn't mention it in the cache page but that would be the purpose of it (likely would have pamphlets/cards in the cache). I discouraged that greatly.

 

There is a time and a place for advertising in my world. This isn't the time or the place.

[+BlueDeuce]

As long as you don't mention the business on the cache page, then the cache would meet the guidelines.

 

However some cachers would still complain.

 

Do as Lil Devil said.

 

I've seen caches at business placed by the owners, placed by other cachers with owner permission, and bucket loads without permission. A sign saying cachers welcome would certainly make me feel better about searching the area.

 

(And all these nay-sayers would look for the cache)

 

Check with your local reviewer to get an official opinion.

[+Sol seaker]

I've seen many caches at businesses.

 

One retailer came out to ask what I was doing. She knew nothing about geocaching. That surprised me since it was not a new cache. I explained it to her and asked her if she wanted me to contact the CO about removing it. I told her it did put her on the map. She agreed and said she wanted to leave it there. So there it is.

 

I think the cache name cannot have the business name in it, or then it is commercial. I think that's in the rules.

 

I like knowing about unusual businesses by finding caches there.

 

I don't appreciate them at chain stores.

 

I like to support local businesses so I like to find caches that help me learn where they are.

 

These being the forums, someone else will now probably say they only like to find caches at chain stores so they can support them.

 

Different strokes you know.

[Dj Storm]

Some of my thoughts:

- if a cache page reads (or hints) that the seeker has to go inside a business, or ask an employee for the cache, I won't seek that cache.

- if a cache is placed outside the business, but is available only during business hours, I will assume that I'll have to interact with the employees, and won't seek that cache.

- if a cache is placed outside the business and available 24/7, but the listing doesn't mention anything about permission, I might look for a few seconds while passing by, but most likely won't seek the cache.

- if the cache page mentions permission, I might seek the cache (depending on how crowded the area is). If there's a sign (like the message "Geocachers welcome", or the geocaching sign), then I will feel more comfortable searching, and will spend more time and effort than usual. However, I won't visit the business (and if the cache contains advertisements for said business, I will avoid it).

[+GeoGeeBee]

There's a travel bug hotel located inside a pizza shop in Kennesaw, Georgia. Last time I was down there, I made a special point of visiting that one, at lunch time. And I'm really glad I did.

 

On the one hand, it's treading close to the edge of the guidelines. It looks like some wording on the cache page and the name of the cache were actually changed to comply with the "no commercial caches" guidelines. If caches like this start sprouting up by the dozens, it would not be a Good Thing.

 

On the other hand, I'm really glad I went there. The food was great, and we had a wonderful time.

 

So, just like with micros, and guard rails, I have no hard and fast rule on this one. I'd probably avoid most caches placed in businesses, but I'd never say that they should all be banned, or even that I would never hunt for one.

[+bflentje]

There's a travel bug hotel located inside a pizza shop in Kennesaw, Georgia. Last time I was down there, I made a special point of visiting that one, at lunch time. And I'm really glad I did.

 

On the one hand, it's treading close to the edge of the guidelines. It looks like some wording on the cache page and the name of the cache were actually changed to comply with the "no commercial caches" guidelines. If caches like this start sprouting up by the dozens, it would not be a Good Thing.

 

On the other hand, I'm really glad I went there. The food was great, and we had a wonderful time.

 

So, just like with micros, and guard rails, I have no hard and fast rule on this one. I'd probably avoid most caches placed in businesses, but I'd never say that they should all be banned, or even that I would never hunt for one.

 

and no disclaimer to boot..

[+lachupa]

I'm heading up to see my parents this weekend and was going to haul them out geocaching. I hunted down a few that I thought would be good and ran across one that is sort of a puzzle cache in a parking lot of a gift shop. (they live in a tourist area)

 

You have to know what year some building was built and there is a hint that the people inside know. I don't think there is any other way to find out but I could be wrong. Then, based on the logs, the "prize" in the cache is a coupon for the store.

 

seemed odd to me and much more commercial than what you're talking about doing

[+narcissa]

I'm heading up to see my parents this weekend and was going to haul them out geocaching. I hunted down a few that I thought would be good and ran across one that is sort of a puzzle cache in a parking lot of a gift shop. (they live in a tourist area)

 

You have to know what year some building was built and there is a hint that the people inside know. I don't think there is any other way to find out but I could be wrong. Then, based on the logs, the "prize" in the cache is a coupon for the store.

 

seemed odd to me and much more commercial than what you're talking about doing

 

Sounds like a blatant guidelines issue to me. They likely changed the page after it was reviewed.

[sdarken]

Having a cache inside a sign sounds interesting and the "geocachers welcome" thing would make me feel better about searching for the cache however I agree with a previous comment that it seems problematic to have a cache that depends on the hours of the store, the days that the store is open etc. Lots of people cache without paper and will waste a lot of time looking for a cache at the coordinates before reading the description. While that might be their fault, I can see it causing issues.

 

Is there some way to have a cache located on/under/behind some permanent signage rather than the temporary sign?

[uperdooper]

why not make it a multi? have a small sign in the window with the co'ords of the final stage. see how much attention people pay to their surroundings.

 

that would make it accessible 24 hours a day.