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Caches containing Ammo


ihorn
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I find it really funny that everyone gets their shorts in a knot because ammo is bad, but the bulk of our caches are placed in AMMO CANS!

Why stop there? Tupperware type containers are very popular too, but no food should be left in geocaches.

 

What's funny is the failure to distinguish between container and content. And besides, we're not talking about whether ammo is good or bad (which would swiftly get our hands slapped - again - by Motorcycle Mama) but whether they're appropriate in geocaches.

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2 or 3 years ago, maybe longer, I recall a similar thread where someone complained high and long about finding live ammo in a container. They were all upset about how live ammo shouldn't have been left, what if it had gone off, what if a kid had gotten it and taken it to school, what if a prisoner on a roadside work detail had gotten it, all kinds of "what if" scenarios. When they posted a picture it wasn't a live round. It was just the empty brass. They didn't know a live round from empty brass.

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Why does semantics keep entering the discussion when it's already been established that:

 

1. It's against the rules/guidelines.

2. Such "swag" would not endear us to law enforcement.

3. See #1 again.

What semantics are you referring to?

 

#1 is pointing out a fact. Actually, I tried to search for it, and I couldn't find it. Does anyone have a link? I distinctly remember there's guidelines against leaving even pocket knives but I couldn't find it in several places I looked.

#2 is justifying the reason for #1

 

For some people, #1 is good enough, end of discussion. These folks can safely ignore this thread knowing that their job is done after pointing it out, and it had been pointed out multiple times.

 

Discussing the reason for #1 is a legitimate geocaching topic.

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I would not trust ammo in a geocache, for the same reason I would not trust condoms or food in a geocache - I don't know who left it there, what condition it is in, and how long it has been sitting there.

I agree, or even how long is was sitting in the dirt along the trail before someone found it and dropped in into the Cache.

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I find it really funny that everyone gets their shorts in a knot because ammo is bad, but the bulk of our caches are placed in AMMO CANS!

Why stop there? Tupperware type containers are very popular too, but no food should be left in geocaches.

 

What's funny is the failure to distinguish between container and content. And besides, we're not talking about whether ammo is good or bad (which would swiftly get our hands slapped - again - by Motorcycle Mama) but whether they're appropriate in geocaches.

And bison tubes and similar containers are originally designed for prescription medicine, but leaving drugs in a cache is also a bad idea. Oh the irony of it all. :)

 

At least keys or film are permitted in caches. :)

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Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

I have never found ammo in a cache, so no problem from me. But, more than the risk of explosion, what about police. What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop? Could make your "I'm just geocaching" story a little harder to explain.

 

I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US.

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I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US.

As long as you're not a convicted felon, uses controlled substances, or is subject to a domestic violence restraining order.

 

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-r-0217.htm

 

That was just something that came up in a google search, not something my probation officer brought up. Serious.

 

On a more disturbing note :

 

Iowa prohibits people below a certain age from receiving or possessing ammunition.

 

Anyway, like I said, it's something that came up in an Internet search. I do not know if it is current.

Edited by Chrysalides
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I have actually found GS "prohibited" items, including ammo, in many caches. Since GS doesn't "own" the caches, I don't see any problem with what's in the caches. GS authority is over the listings and the website interface. They can "suggest" what people use for swag, but they don't "control" it.

True. They do not own the cache or contents. They own the listing and listing site, and control what can be in the caches listed on this site.

 

So your point is valid only if you want to list your caches elsewhere.

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Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

I have never found ammo in a cache, so no problem from me. But, more than the risk of explosion, what about police. What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop? Could make your "I'm just geocaching" story a little harder to explain.

 

I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US.

 

It is not illegal In Canada either. Unless you are a convicted felon (same as in the US).

Despite what some Americans think... Canada is not a group of hippy gun hating people.

 

BTW MCM... you have gone off on a tangent. Although no more than others here.

 

I would really like to know what this " I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US." has to do with geocaching or the thread at hand?

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I would really like to know what this " I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US." has to do with geocaching or the thread at hand?

Because if it is illegal for you to possess ammo, you cannot remove it from a cache without breaking the law.

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I would really like to know what this " I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US." has to do with geocaching or the thread at hand?
Because if it is illegal for you to possess ammo, you cannot remove it from a cache without breaking the law.

If you're gonna use that logic, then the other tangents could be related to geocaching since you really shouldn't be CITO'ing dangerous ammo that can go off in your hand and shoot someone's ear off.

 

*** Note that I didn't have a problem with the other tangents. However, brslk does have a point.

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I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US.

It is illegal for an Illinois resident to possess live ammo in Illinois without a FOID card.

Again, tho, to clarify since you are using "bullet" and "cartridge" interchangeably - possession of the bullet is not illegal. Possession of a live cartridge without a FOID is illegal. A 'bullet' is the lead, copper, brass projectile at the end of the cartridge. The case, bullet, primer, and powder, all separate components possessed by an individual, is legal without a FOID. However, once assembled into a cartridge then IL law requires the FOID.

I believe it is Massachusetts that is even more restrictive and includes all components of a cartridge in their law prohibiting possession without a permit.

New Jersey prohibits possession of hollow point ammo in some situations. NJ also has a FOID law but I don't recall if it also applies to ammo possession.

California passed a bill requiring all ammo to have micro-engraving for identification. They still haven't figured out how to make that one work.

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If a .22 went off on the sidewalk, there is no way that any of the shrapenal would be able to produce more than a scratch on someones side. So anyway I call BS on that story.

 

Don't know about the sidewalk, but I can tell you that when I was 8 I found a .22 shell. Talked my 12yo brother into putting it on the chopping block and hitting it with an axe. Casing shrapnel piece about the size of your small fingernail went 2 inches deep into his calf muscle. Don't tell me it didn't happen, I was standing right next to him.

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SNIP QUOTED POST

So what we should do is ban batteries from caches because they could set off the ammunition. Right?

 

I have no idea why people leave batteries in caches. Alkaline batteries run down pretty quickly, so it's not like you're leaving a stache for future generations.

 

I also tend to buy my batteries at Costco, instead of hoping fervently I can find a half run down battery in a cache to juice up my flagging GPSr long enough to find that next darling LPC. :grin:

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Ammo isn't dangerous. Those who get all freaked out by seeing a bullet need to go take a basic firearm safety and instruction course. A bullet is no more harmful than a rock... unless it is actually in a gun.

.....Stupidy is a problem everywhere. What if a young child picked it up and swallowed it before the parents could stop him?

Stupidity is a problem, it's true. However, if a young child is stupid enough to pick up a bullet and swallow it, he'd probably be so full of all the rocks he picked up along the trail and ate, he'd have no room for dessert (the bullet....)
Oh I know what if there was a snake on the box, I shot it and my bullet went through hit that bullet and caused it to go off? That bullet could gi anywhere, It might not be any more likely than my bullet ricochetting and hitting someone but it could happen.

Really? REALLY?! You carry a gun so you can shoot snakes in caches? Is this a real problem where you live? :grin:

 

Shooting a snake in a cache is about the dumbest way of dealing with a snake-in-an-ammo-can that I can think of. How is a snake going to break into a sealed ammo can or tupperware container? And, have you ever shot a snake? They're real squirmy and stuff, and don't lend themselves well to being dispatched by bullets.

 

Ammo in a cache seems like a really bad idea, but let's be realistic in why that is, please.

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Does it belong in a cache?? NO.

 

Will it go off if exposed to heat?? Higher heat than atmospherics will produce - maybe

 

Will it go off with enough force to badly injure somebody?? maybe - if they were real close by but unlikely at even 6 to 10 feet.

 

Remedy?? Trade it out of the cache for something else.

 

Was it really a live round?? who knows - I've seen rounds with no powder in them placed in caches.

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*SNIP*

Does anyone have a link? I distinctly remember there's guidelines against leaving even pocket knives but I couldn't find it in several places I looked.

*SNIP*

 

http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx

 

Look under this section:

 

What should not be placed in a cache?

People of all ages hide and seek caches, so think carefully before placing an item into a cache. Explosives, ammunition, knives, drugs and alcohol should not be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws.

Food items are always a bad idea. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

Edited to snip quote

Edited by ADTCacheur
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*SNIP*

Does anyone have a link? I distinctly remember there's guidelines against leaving even pocket knives but I couldn't find it in several places I looked.

*SNIP*

 

http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx

Thanks - I could have sworn I searched that page but didn't see it. Which just goes to show I'm as hopeless in finding geocaches as I am in finding something on the website.

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Ammo isn't dangerous. Those who get all freaked out by seeing a bullet need to go take a basic firearm safety and instruction course. A bullet is no more harmful than a rock... unless it is actually in a gun.

Bullets can explode if tossed in fire. For the most part they are harmless without a gun.

 

Actually if the rock came out of a stream or lake, it can also explode in a fire and is more likely to cause injury than a live round.

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Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

I have never found ammo in a cache, so no problem from me. But, more than the risk of explosion, what about police. What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop? Could make your "I'm just geocaching" story a little harder to explain.

I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US.

It is not illegal In Canada either. Unless you are a convicted felon (same as in the US).

Despite what some Americans think... Canada is not a group of hippy gun hating people.

 

BTW MCM... you have gone off on a tangent. Although no more than others here.

 

I would really like to know what this " I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US." has to do with geocaching or the thread at hand?

Because the question was asked (as bolded above) What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop?

 

This is totally a "geocaching related" question and completely has to to with the thread at hand.

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I would really like to know what this " I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US." has to do with geocaching or the thread at hand?
Because if it is illegal for you to possess ammo, you cannot remove it from a cache without breaking the law.

If you're gonna use that logic, then the other tangents could be related to geocaching since you really shouldn't be CITO'ing dangerous ammo that can go off in your hand and shoot someone's ear off.

 

*** Note that I didn't have a problem with the other tangents. However, brslk does have a point.

There, MCM the M has spoken in post #131. Let there be no more doubt.

 

*** This post is intended as humor, but the poster makes no guarantee that readers will find it humorous.

Edited by Chrysalides
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I find it interesting that there are people who are fine with ammo being in caches because we need to teach kids about safety, but who apparently aren't fine with condoms being in caches. Shouldn't we be teaching kids about safety in both areas?

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I find it interesting that there are people who are fine with ammo being in caches because we need to teach kids about safety, but who apparently aren't fine with condoms being in caches. Shouldn't we be teaching kids about safety in both areas?

 

I don't make a habit of questioning the deeply personal religious and/or personal convictions of others when it pertains to a game. I'd really rather not go there.

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One day in ~1985 my office secretary gets a call and rushes off to the hospital. Her 9 year old son found a .22 round, hit it with a brick and shot himself in the leg. It happens.

 

Firearms, and that would include ammo, have been prohibited items in geocaches since the start of the game, so discussion of their safety is really not relevant to the game.

 

OK, but I'll bet the odds are better for a kid choking on the rubber frog than shooting himself by banging the .22 cartridge with a rock.

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Do you know for a fact that it was a live round? We did a few caches on a trip from IL to WY and in one of those got a beautiful silver .45. Upon doing a little research the item is a reload but it's filled with sand and is a personal signature item.

 

If I were to run across a round in a cache I'd simply trade it out and not complain about it. The condom would upset me a whole lot more than a 22.

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So, what happens if you're CITO'ing a rim fire cartridge, carrying it in your shirt pocket, and then trip and fall on a rock and shoot a passing cop?

Point in a random direction, shout "It came from over there! I saw it!" When no one is looking at you, take off in the opposite direction.

 

To prevent such a thing from happening, I propose we get rid of all rocks.

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Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

I have never found ammo in a cache, so no problem from me. But, more than the risk of explosion, what about police. What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop? Could make your "I'm just geocaching" story a little harder to explain.

I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US.

It is not illegal In Canada either. Unless you are a convicted felon (same as in the US).

Despite what some Americans think... Canada is not a group of hippy gun hating people.

 

BTW MCM... you have gone off on a tangent. Although no more than others here.

 

I would really like to know what this " I don't think that just carrying a bullet is illegal in most (perhaps all?)of the US." has to do with geocaching or the thread at hand?

Because the question was asked (as bolded above) What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop?

 

This is totally a "geocaching related" question and completely has to to with the thread at hand.

 

Actually that justifies His post. Not your answering it with an off topic reply.

 

Your reply had nothing whatsoever to do with geocaching.

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I find it interesting that there are people who are fine with ammo being in caches because we need to teach kids about safety, but who apparently aren't fine with condoms being in caches. Shouldn't we be teaching kids about safety in both areas?

 

I don't make a habit of questioning the deeply personal religious and/or personal convictions of others when it pertains to a game. I'd really rather not go there.

 

Fair enough.

 

Edit: Although, of course, the same should also apply to people who think that it's ridiculous to complain about ammo in caches. For some, opposition to guns and all related things is a deeply personal or religious conviction.

Edited by drewmm
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I find it interesting that there are people who are fine with ammo being in caches because we need to teach kids about safety, but who apparently aren't fine with condoms being in caches. Shouldn't we be teaching kids about safety in both areas?

I am quite sure that no one has stated that they are fine with ammo being in caches.

 

The way I see it, the difference between ammo and condoms in caches is that ammo does not have moral issue associated with it. Ammo can be discussed openly no mater the age or maturity of a child. Safe sex should be discussed when a parent thinks the child is at the appropriate age and maturity, now when they run into a condom in a geocache.

 

I found a condom in the first cache I ever found. I kind of moved it to the bottom of the cache, and the kids didn't notice it. At that point I was thinking "if this is normal, this is going to be a short lived hobby." I have never found one since.

 

Although, of course, the same should also apply to people who think that it's ridiculous to complain about ammo in caches. For some, opposition to guns and all related things is a deeply personal or religious conviction.

I know that alot of people have very strong feelings about guns, but I don't know of any who have religious confictions about them. The only guy who I know who had moral convictions about them didn't after talking to me for about 1.5 minuts

Edited by Andronicus
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So, what happens if you're CITO'ing a rim fire cartridge, carrying it in your shirt pocket, and then trip and fall on a rock and shoot a passing cop?

Point in a random direction, shout "It came from over there! I saw it!" When no one is looking at you, take off in the opposite direction.

 

To prevent such a thing from happening, I propose we get rid of all rocks.

 

And cops. :)

 

*** The preceding was a joke. I like cops.

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Golf balls are hazardous, as someone could choke on them. Inkpens and pencils could lead to stabbings. Ammo cans can easily cause a concussion or head trauma, or someone could shut one on a finger and create a laceration. If slammed against a rock, they could produce sparks and start a forest fire. There is enough potential danger around. Leaving something designed to cause injury is just a bad idea.

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Golf balls are hazardous, as someone could choke on them. Inkpens and pencils could lead to stabbings. Ammo cans can easily cause a concussion or head trauma, or someone could shut one on a finger and create a laceration. If slammed against a rock, they could produce sparks and start a forest fire. There is enough potential danger around. Leaving something designed to cause injury is just a bad idea.

LOL this reminds me of when I was putting back an LPC and the lampskirt slid down on my finger. For a second I was thinking "oh crap there goes a fingertip".

 

I think that most objects can be dangerous. I think most of it is the way people veiw guns. In the hands of intellegent, smart people they pose no danger. In the hands of cruel thoughtless people they are a danger. I agree its not something that should be in a cache but only for the fact that there is no telling what kind of person may open the cache and take the ammo. It could be a normal person who wants to use it for target shooting. It could be a kid that does not know any better and hammers it. It could be someone who uses it for a crime. Its just as bad as a knife, a lighter or any kind of object that is likely to harm someone.

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Although, of course, the same should also apply to people who think that it's ridiculous to complain about ammo in caches. For some, opposition to guns and all related things is a deeply personal or religious conviction.

 

Both however are against the rules/guidelines, so any discussions on whether either is considered "acceptable swag" is a moot point!

 

And i agree, some people are anti-gun (as some are deeply offended by condoms), so either should not be left in ANY geocaches. Let's be civil, here, folks. :)

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HI, long time lurker, first time poster etc... Nice to meet you all. :D

I thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork to post a true story that might provide some food for thought on this subject.

The very first cache I ever found with a GPS, long ago, and far away. Contained 4000 rnds of ammo, 12 lbs. of C-4, and various support equipment. I can tell you that I was quite happy to find it at the time. As it allowed me to continue doing my job. I.E. Killing People! Ofcourse that was back when only the COOL KIDS had GPS, and we all caried weapons!

The moral of the story for those who Who need an extra clue, is that The GPS that we all use for fun and games is infact a military weapons system in and of itself. :D:):D

So. If you're opposed to ammunition for "moral reasons" :D How do you justify playing games with A military weapon?

 

 

Edited for spelling; Now with 14% less snark.

Edited by lefthandforge
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Both however are against the rules/guidelines, so any discussions on whether either is considered "acceptable swag" is a moot point!

Actually, only the ammo is specifically listed in the guidelines.

Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache.

Therefore, there is no question, regardless of personal feelings, that ammo is against the rules.

 

Since condoms are not specifically listed, then you have to decide if they are illicit or otherwise not suitable for all ages.

 

Of course, I believe it goes without saying that used condoms are unacceptable for a number of reasons; especially if used for their intended purpose.

 

However, I can see valid arguments on both side for unused condoms. While their intended purpose is not suitable for all ages, there are a number of uses that are quite suitable for all ages.

 

*** My apologies if nothing but ammo talk is allowed in this thread.

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