Can missing cache be logged?

[+topknotgps]

Total newb and not sure that the search engine here likes me. I went to a local Cache tonight and found it easy enough, but the container was missing. The cap was there, and it was obviously the top of the cache container, but the container itself was missing. I will log this on the cache log shortly, but I was wondering if I count this as a find or what?

 

Thank you for your help.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

As per the geocaching guidelines -- it is not a find if you don't sign the logbook.

 

You will notice, as you cruise through the forums, that many do log a find based upon what you described. But technically, you didn't find it! All you found was evidence (or rubbish -- point of view, there).

 

In my opinion (for whatever that is worth), you should post a "DNF".

 

Also, if you searched well beyond what you did find, and other logs also indicated that the cache is missing, you should post a "Needs Maintenance" note.

[+Chrysalides]

A few times I've found what I thought was part of a muggled cache. So far I've always turned out to be incorrect after checking with the owner.

[+topknotgps]

As per the geocaching guidelines -- it is not a find if you don't sign the logbook.

 

You will notice, as you cruise through the forums, that many do log a find based upon what you described. But technically, you didn't find it! All you found was evidence (or rubbish -- point of view, there).

 

In my opinion (for whatever that is worth), you should post a "DNF".

 

Also, if you searched well beyond what you did find, and other logs also indicated that the cache is missing, you should post a "Needs Maintenance" note.

 

This particular cache was hanging from a tree, the container lid was still hanging from the tree. The rest of the container hung from the lid but was gone, I did a search for about 10 ft around the tree for the rest. The last log shows a find, but that was weeks ago. Could have been muggled who knows. Thanks for the response!

[+kunarion]

I was wondering if I count this as a find or what?

 

You need to sign the cache log, but you didn’t find that. Some people leave a new container and replacement log, not so good if the actual cache still exists. It's slightly possible that there is a complete container nearby.

 

I once found an intact cache, and still didn’t log the find. It was a cracked tupperware full of water, with snack food wrappers, an empty acne cream tube, one sock and a glove, and two hard-bound books in it. One was probably the cache log. Both books were moldy, soaking wet, smelly and gross…

 

And I could have left a replacement log or even a signed piece of paper, and logged it as a “find”. Somehow I had no interest in it. Go figure.

 

But I did a "Needs Maintenance" log. The cache has been "Disabled" ever since.

Edited December 8, 2009 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

This particular cache was hanging from a tree, the container lid was still hanging from the tree.

There's a cache near my home similar to that. I've been impatiently waiting for the cache maintenance. The film canister's there on the branch. Cap and contents are gone. And that's the first stage in a Multi.

Edited December 8, 2009 by kunarion

[+WRASTRO]

Although it sounds as if you likely found where the cache was you did not find the cache. I would post a DNF. Then I would contact the cache owner and explain what I found so the cache can be fixed if it was indeed the cache.

[+bittsen]

Do whatever your conscience will allow.

There are no caching police to bust you if you log a find on a cache that has lost it's logsheet. The worst thing that could happen is the cache owner deletes your online log.

[+briansnat]

Purists will say that you have to sign the logbook for it to count. Others will say that as long as you found enough of the cache to clearly identify it as the cache it is OK to log a find. Some will log a find if there is any evidence that a cache might have been there, some velcro, a piece of string, a hook, whatever. Heck, there are people out there who log a find even if they found nothing but are pretty sure they found where the cache should have been.

 

It's really between you and the cache owner. If you feel that you found enough of the cache and you want to count it as a find and the owner agrees, then go ahead and log a find.

[+Zor]

Purists will say that you have to sign the logbook for it to count. Others will say that as long as you found enough of the cache to clearly identify it as the cache it is OK to log a find. Some will log a find if there is any evidence that a cache might have been there, some velcro, a piece of string, a hook, whatever. Heck, there are people out there who log a find even if they found nothing but are pretty sure they found where the cache should have been.

 

It's really between you and the cache owner. If you feel that you found enough of the cache and you want to count it as a find and the owner agrees, then go ahead and log a find.

 

I'm on the same page as you. I have gone to places where I was absolutely positive the cache was supposed to be there but it wasn't so I did a DNF. But I have also found caches where the log sheet was SO soaked I couldn't sign it and I logged that as a find since I did find the cache.

 

For me, and this is just my opinion, if I "find" the cache, as in I find the container, or see the container when I'm with a group caching together, or I find what I know to be the remains of the cache, I log it as a find. To me it's all about finding the actual container and if I can find the container, or what remains of the container, I log it.

 

In some cases where I couldn't sign the log or the cache was half missing, I have taken photos and sent them to the owner to confirm my find and so they would know what the situation was.

[glorkar]

I think I would verify with the cache owner to make sure you found the cache, at least what was left of it. I would probably log it as a find if it is. I definitely wouldn't log a DNF on that one, if anything, I would leave a note.

[+topknotgps]

Thanks again for all the input, I am in touch with the cache owner, and hope to at least make sure she knows it may be gone.

[+NanCycle]

Recently we found an empty nano container that we were pretty sure was the cache. As there was no log in it, we signed a scrap of paper and left that instead. Found out later that the CO intentionally has no log in the cache--here's his explanation:

There was no log in the cache as we have been getting individuals claiming the cache that had no idea where it was located. I/we appreciate the frustration of finding it that way, but it allows me to monitor what is happening.

This makes no sense to me, as he could easily monitor the situation by reading the logsheet--too lazy to go out and visit the cache I guess. Incidentally, there were no previous online logs mentioning that there was no logsheet in the cache.

Nancy

[+rtyrie]

A few times I've found what I thought was part of a muggled cache. So far I've always turned out to be incorrect after checking with the owner.

 

I once found a tupperware container lying open on the ground, with little toys lying beside it. I thought for sure that the cache had been muggled. But I searched anyway and found the cache hidden in its proper spot just a couple metres away.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Recently we found an empty nano container that we were pretty sure was the cache. As there was no log in it, we signed a scrap of paper and left that instead. Found out later that the CO intentionally has no log in the cache--here's his explanation:

There was no log in the cache as we have been getting individuals claiming the cache that had no idea where it was located. I/we appreciate the frustration of finding it that way, but it allows me to monitor what is happening.

This makes no sense to me, as he could easily monitor the situation by reading the logsheet--too lazy to go out and visit the cache I guess. Incidentally, there were no previous online logs mentioning that there was no logsheet in the cache.

Nancy

 

I recently read a cache page from Oregon where there at least 30 nanos hanging in a tree. You have to find the one with the logsheet in it to claim the smilie. No fair putting your own log into one of the others.

Several people have turned in DNF's after about an hour.

[jholly]

Recently we found an empty nano container that we were pretty sure was the cache. As there was no log in it, we signed a scrap of paper and left that instead. Found out later that the CO intentionally has no log in the cache--here's his explanation:

There was no log in the cache as we have been getting individuals claiming the cache that had no idea where it was located. I/we appreciate the frustration of finding it that way, but it allows me to monitor what is happening.

This makes no sense to me, as he could easily monitor the situation by reading the logsheet--too lazy to go out and visit the cache I guess. Incidentally, there were no previous online logs mentioning that there was no logsheet in the cache.

Nancy

 

I recently read a cache page from Oregon where there at least 30 nanos hanging in a tree. You have to find the one with the logsheet in it to claim the smilie. No fair putting your own log into one of the others.

Several people have turned in DNF's after about an hour.

 

People actually look for that one? Amazing, yes the gene pool needs chlorination. I would have run out of patience before I even started.

 

Jim

[+Harry Dolphin]

I recently read a cache page from Oregon where there at least 30 nanos hanging in a tree. You have to find the one with the logsheet in it to claim the smilie. No fair putting your own log into one of the others.

Several people have turned in DNF's after about an hour.

 

People actually look for that one? Amazing, yes the gene pool needs chlorination. I would have run out of patience before I even started.

 

Jim

 

I would have tought it kind of the cache owner to supply seed caches!

[+hukilaulau]

Here's an angle you might not have thought of: if you log it as a find, it will show up as a green square in GSAK and will show up in PQ's where people have checked "found since..."

Just today I was reviewing some caches on a bookmark list and happened on one where the last four "finders", caching as a group, logged something like "logging a find with permission of owner." Since all four of them did it, the GSAK box was all green after they passed through, canceling out previous dnf's, even though the cache wasn't there!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Recently we found an empty nano container that we were pretty sure was the cache. As there was no log in it, we signed a scrap of paper and left that instead. Found out later that the CO intentionally has no log in the cache--here's his explanation:

There was no log in the cache as we have been getting individuals claiming the cache that had no idea where it was located. I/we appreciate the frustration of finding it that way, but it allows me to monitor what is happening.

This makes no sense to me, as he could easily monitor the situation by reading the logsheet--too lazy to go out and visit the cache I guess. Incidentally, there were no previous online logs mentioning that there was no logsheet in the cache.

Nancy

 

I recently read a cache page from Oregon where there at least 30 nanos hanging in a tree. You have to find the one with the logsheet in it to claim the smilie. No fair putting your own log into one of the others.

Several people have turned in DNF's after about an hour.

 

People actually look for that one? Amazing, yes the gene pool needs chlorination. I would have run out of patience before I even started.

 

Jim

What's wrong with having a little patience and persistance...The Genepool needs chlorination indeed. Not my kind of hunt though. If I wanted to look that hard for something, I'd throw my car keys in the ivy.

[+TwoSleuths]

As per the geocaching guidelines -- it is not a find if you don't sign the logbook.

 

You will notice, as you cruise through the forums, that many do log a find based upon what you described. But technically, you didn't find it! All you found was evidence (or rubbish -- point of view, there).

 

In my opinion (for whatever that is worth), you should post a "DNF".

 

Also, if you searched well beyond what you did find, and other logs also indicated that the cache is missing, you should post a "Needs Maintenance" note.

 

I am fairly new to the game to, and found one a few nights ago that was about 15ft up a light pole. It was a magnetic key holder. How do you go about signing the log on a cache out of reach? Or, a log that is completely soaked? I have replaced them before, but on this night, I didn't even have an old receipt in the car. Thanks!

[+NanCycle]

How do you go about signing the log on a cache out of reach?

Ever hear of a ladder?

As some have found this response to be overly sarcastic, I would like to revise it to say--

Use a ladder.

Edited December 24, 2009 by DoubleBent

[+TwoSleuths]

How do you go about signing the log on a cache out of reach?

Ever hear of a ladder?

 

I can't understand the big following when people involved in this hobby are so sarcastic, to the point of taking the fun out of it. Have I ever heard of a ladder? No, I have been closeted my entire life.

[Halfwaytothestars]

Thanks for this discussion. I'm also a newbie with similar questions. FWIW, I declared a DNF where the only possible found was an empty pink plastic bag. Some people around here joke about those plastic bags which indicate Chinese produce shops. I love shopping in those stores but haven't seen a cache listed nearby yet.

[+AbMagFab]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

[+niraD]

How do you go about signing the log on a cache out of reach?

Ever hear of a ladder?

I can't understand the big following when people involved in this hobby are so sarcastic, to the point of taking the fun out of it. Have I ever heard of a ladder? No, I have been closeted my entire life.

Ah, that might explain why you had difficulty figuring out how one is supposed to go about signing the log on a cache out of reach.

 

Such "elevated" caches are essentially the same as scuba caches, boating caches, rock climbing/rappelling caches, 4x4 caches, 4-star camouflage caches, etc. The cache presents an additional challenge to seekers.

 

In the case of an "elevated" cache, the cache owner usually intends for seekers to figure out how to retrieve and replace the out-of-reach container, either by climbing up to the cache or by using a tool of some sort to lower and replace the cache. In some cases, the necessary tool is provided, and the challenge involves finding the tool and figuring out how to use it.

[+TwoSleuths]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

We headed out this past Sunday to go see my grandmother. We didn't take any of our supplies with us, just a quick list of some that we would like to find along the way there. The listing described the cache as a small nano, and to bring tweezers. We found the cache, went to a nearby store, purchased some tweezers, retrieved the cache. When we opened the cache, the log was soaking wet. We were later given ideas by the owner, but, put the log back, and replaced the cache where we found it. When we unscrewed the nano, paint rubbed off on my fingers. I logged the find, then posted a needs maintenance. I have included the correspondence with the cache owner below:

 

The following is the note he placed after the needs maintenance post, and following this is the response we sent...

December 21 by ... (3450 found)

Damaged while retreiving cache & a wet log. So a "needs maintenance log" is

posted and now we get to go do maintenance? Let us drop what we're doing & get

right on that one. ARRRRRRRGH!

 

Our reply:

The paint remaining is still concealing this cache. Not quite sure how else we

would have retrieved this cache. The log was already wet. We didn't drop it.

If we are back out that way before you, we would be happy to replace the entire

thing. We apologize for any inconvenience. We thought posting the "needs

maintenance loge" was the proper thing to do.

 

Later that evening, we received the following from the owner:

Hello,

 

Welcome to geocaching.

 

In the future, ALWAYS please contact the owner of the cache first before you ever post a "needs maintenance" log. It is a common courtesy. Posting a "needs maintenance log" is very serious and basically means the cache should be maintained or archived because it is inaccessible. The posting of such a log sets a clock in motion where by owners only have so many days to do maintanence--or the cache will be archived. Been caching for over 3 years and never posted that to an owner on a cache. Hide more caches & get a hiders perspective....help when you can.

 

Please note the cache description clearly tells you to bring tweezers for extraction. "Had to go spend a couple bucks for a tool to retrieve the cache. Once we got it out, discovered the log to be soaked, and as mentioned before, no suppliesI" Really considered deleting your "found it" log due to too many hints provided--please consider editing--so it is not deleted.

 

I am deleting the "needs maintenance" log--if you simply moved the vine back over to cover the hole--it can survive the damaged paint job.

 

PS--get used to wet logs this time of year--again--always nice to let a cache owner know about it, but really not a deal breaker in caching. If you want to do a good deed, be resourceful, i.e., you could have easily used the receipt of "the tools" you bought (without returning to nearby stores) and craft that into a new log. Really, even a skinnied down gum wrapper would have done the trick.

 

Please--don't make it a hard on the hiders--remember, we're the ones doing the extra effort & creating the hunt for you. Always help out where you can. Hail to the hiders--we keep the game alive.

 

Thanks!

 

We have hidden only two caches. We have already had to replace one. This person has 50+, so, yes, I can imagine the additional work it takes in keeping them maintained. However, before posting the "needs maintenance" log, we did check to make sure that was the proper thing to do, and that is exactly what it read to do. I did edit my log, as requested, to "thanks". There was nothing in my original log that would have been a spoiler, "the tools", I refered to in my original, was referring to the listing that clearly stated, "we do recommend tweezers". Hail to the hiders...I agree, they provide the hunt and challenge. Am I letting one person take the fun out of it?

[+TwoSleuths]

How do you go about signing the log on a cache out of reach?

Ever hear of a ladder?

I can't understand the big following when people involved in this hobby are so sarcastic, to the point of taking the fun out of it. Have I ever heard of a ladder? No, I have been closeted my entire life.

Ah, that might explain why you had difficulty figuring out how one is supposed to go about signing the log on a cache out of reach.

 

Such "elevated" caches are essentially the same as scuba caches, boating caches, rock climbing/rappelling caches, 4x4 caches, 4-star camouflage caches, etc. The cache presents an additional challenge to seekers.

 

In the case of an "elevated" cache, the cache owner usually intends for seekers to figure out how to retrieve and replace the out-of-reach container, either by climbing up to the cache or by using a tool of some sort to lower and replace the cache. In some cases, the necessary tool is provided, and the challenge involves finding the tool and figuring out how to use it.

 

When we returned home, checked the hint....which was, "do you know any NBA players". DUH!

[+WRASTRO]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

We headed out this past Sunday to go see my grandmother. We didn't take any of our supplies with us, just a quick list of some that we would like to find along the way there. The listing described the cache as a small nano, and to bring tweezers. We found the cache, went to a nearby store, purchased some tweezers, retrieved the cache. When we opened the cache, the log was soaking wet. We were later given ideas by the owner, but, put the log back, and replaced the cache where we found it. When we unscrewed the nano, paint rubbed off on my fingers. I logged the find, then posted a needs maintenance. I have included the correspondence with the cache owner below:

 

The following is the note he placed after the needs maintenance post, and following this is the response we sent...

December 21 by ... (3450 found)

Damaged while retreiving cache & a wet log. So a "needs maintenance log" is

posted and now we get to go do maintenance? Let us drop what we're doing & get

right on that one. ARRRRRRRGH!

 

Our reply:

The paint remaining is still concealing this cache. Not quite sure how else we

would have retrieved this cache. The log was already wet. We didn't drop it.

If we are back out that way before you, we would be happy to replace the entire

thing. We apologize for any inconvenience. We thought posting the "needs

maintenance loge" was the proper thing to do.

 

Later that evening, we received the following from the owner:

Hello,

 

Welcome to geocaching.

 

In the future, ALWAYS please contact the owner of the cache first before you ever post a "needs maintenance" log. It is a common courtesy. Posting a "needs maintenance log" is very serious and basically means the cache should be maintained or archived because it is inaccessible. The posting of such a log sets a clock in motion where by owners only have so many days to do maintanence--or the cache will be archived. Been caching for over 3 years and never posted that to an owner on a cache. Hide more caches & get a hiders perspective....help when you can.

 

Please note the cache description clearly tells you to bring tweezers for extraction. "Had to go spend a couple bucks for a tool to retrieve the cache. Once we got it out, discovered the log to be soaked, and as mentioned before, no suppliesI" Really considered deleting your "found it" log due to too many hints provided--please consider editing--so it is not deleted.

 

I am deleting the "needs maintenance" log--if you simply moved the vine back over to cover the hole--it can survive the damaged paint job.

 

PS--get used to wet logs this time of year--again--always nice to let a cache owner know about it, but really not a deal breaker in caching. If you want to do a good deed, be resourceful, i.e., you could have easily used the receipt of "the tools" you bought (without returning to nearby stores) and craft that into a new log. Really, even a skinnied down gum wrapper would have done the trick.

 

Please--don't make it a hard on the hiders--remember, we're the ones doing the extra effort & creating the hunt for you. Always help out where you can. Hail to the hiders--we keep the game alive.

 

Thanks!

 

We have hidden only two caches. We have already had to replace one. This person has 50+, so, yes, I can imagine the additional work it takes in keeping them maintained. However, before posting the "needs maintenance" log, we did check to make sure that was the proper thing to do, and that is exactly what it read to do. I did edit my log, as requested, to "thanks". There was nothing in my original log that would have been a spoiler, "the tools", I refered to in my original, was referring to the listing that clearly stated, "we do recommend tweezers". Hail to the hiders...I agree, they provide the hunt and challenge. Am I letting one person take the fun out of it?

Based on what you have posted I would say you have an owner with a poor attitude. Take their comments under consideration and keep having fun caching. You do not have any obligation to do maintenance on a cache that you do not own but many of us do. The owner DOES have an obligation to do maintenance when it is needed. I find the comment about not making it hard on hiders to be pretty lame. If the hider can't maintain the cache it should never have been hidden, or it should be archived.

 

For the high up hide, sometimes you do need special tools or accessories to retrieve a cache. I always try to read the cache page in detail in an effort to avoid situations such as this.

 

To the OP: I would log a DNF and contact the cache owner. You did not find the cache. You may have found the remnants.

[+TwoSleuths]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

We headed out this past Sunday to go see my grandmother. We didn't take any of our supplies with us, just a quick list of some that we would like to find along the way there. The listing described the cache as a small nano, and to bring tweezers. We found the cache, went to a nearby store, purchased some tweezers, retrieved the cache. When we opened the cache, the log was soaking wet. We were later given ideas by the owner, but, put the log back, and replaced the cache where we found it. When we unscrewed the nano, paint rubbed off on my fingers. I logged the find, then posted a needs maintenance. I have included the correspondence with the cache owner below:

 

The following is the note he placed after the needs maintenance post, and following this is the response we sent...

December 21 by ... (3450 found)

Damaged while retreiving cache & a wet log. So a "needs maintenance log" is

posted and now we get to go do maintenance? Let us drop what we're doing & get

right on that one. ARRRRRRRGH!

 

Our reply:

The paint remaining is still concealing this cache. Not quite sure how else we

would have retrieved this cache. The log was already wet. We didn't drop it.

If we are back out that way before you, we would be happy to replace the entire

thing. We apologize for any inconvenience. We thought posting the "needs

maintenance loge" was the proper thing to do.

 

Later that evening, we received the following from the owner:

Hello,

 

Welcome to geocaching.

 

In the future, ALWAYS please contact the owner of the cache first before you ever post a "needs maintenance" log. It is a common courtesy. Posting a "needs maintenance log" is very serious and basically means the cache should be maintained or archived because it is inaccessible. The posting of such a log sets a clock in motion where by owners only have so many days to do maintanence--or the cache will be archived. Been caching for over 3 years and never posted that to an owner on a cache. Hide more caches & get a hiders perspective....help when you can.

 

Please note the cache description clearly tells you to bring tweezers for extraction. "Had to go spend a couple bucks for a tool to retrieve the cache. Once we got it out, discovered the log to be soaked, and as mentioned before, no suppliesI" Really considered deleting your "found it" log due to too many hints provided--please consider editing--so it is not deleted.

 

I am deleting the "needs maintenance" log--if you simply moved the vine back over to cover the hole--it can survive the damaged paint job.

 

PS--get used to wet logs this time of year--again--always nice to let a cache owner know about it, but really not a deal breaker in caching. If you want to do a good deed, be resourceful, i.e., you could have easily used the receipt of "the tools" you bought (without returning to nearby stores) and craft that into a new log. Really, even a skinnied down gum wrapper would have done the trick.

 

Please--don't make it a hard on the hiders--remember, we're the ones doing the extra effort & creating the hunt for you. Always help out where you can. Hail to the hiders--we keep the game alive.

 

Thanks!

 

We have hidden only two caches. We have already had to replace one. This person has 50+, so, yes, I can imagine the additional work it takes in keeping them maintained. However, before posting the "needs maintenance" log, we did check to make sure that was the proper thing to do, and that is exactly what it read to do. I did edit my log, as requested, to "thanks". There was nothing in my original log that would have been a spoiler, "the tools", I refered to in my original, was referring to the listing that clearly stated, "we do recommend tweezers". Hail to the hiders...I agree, they provide the hunt and challenge. Am I letting one person take the fun out of it?

Based on what you have posted I would say you have an owner with a poor attitude. Take their comments under consideration and keep having fun caching. You do not have any obligation to do maintenance on a cache that you do not own but many of us do. The owner DOES have an obligation to do maintenance when it is needed. I find the comment about not making it hard on hiders to be pretty lame. If the hider can't maintain the cache it should never have been hidden, or it should be archived.

 

For the high up hide, sometimes you do need special tools or accessories to retrieve a cache. I always try to read the cache page in detail in an effort to avoid situations such as this.

 

To the OP: I would log a DNF and contact the cache owner. You did not find the cache. You may have found the remnants.

 

Thank you so much! I appreciate your taking the time to read all that, and respond thoughtfully!

[+BlueDeuce]

Take their comments under consideration and keep having fun caching.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[+Trucker Lee]

I go with the crowd that says you need to sign the logbook. Finding parts normally doesn't do it for me.

 

A recent exception would be a cache that had a prior log describing the damage found, and what that person did. I found the log and baggy in nearby bushes, and could identify if as such easily, but did not consider it usable. As the cache was in an interstate rest area with an owner some distance away, in this case I took the liberty of replacing the container and emailing the owner with full description and a pic of what I gathered.

[+brslk]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

We headed out this past Sunday to go see my grandmother. We didn't take any of our supplies with us, just a quick list of some that we would like to find along the way there. The listing described the cache as a small nano, and to bring tweezers. We found the cache, went to a nearby store, purchased some tweezers, retrieved the cache. When we opened the cache, the log was soaking wet. We were later given ideas by the owner, but, put the log back, and replaced the cache where we found it. When we unscrewed the nano, paint rubbed off on my fingers. I logged the find, then posted a needs maintenance. I have included the correspondence with the cache owner below:

 

The following is the note he placed after the needs maintenance post, and following this is the response we sent...

December 21 by ... (3450 found)

Damaged while retreiving cache & a wet log. So a "needs maintenance log" is

posted and now we get to go do maintenance? Let us drop what we're doing & get

right on that one. ARRRRRRRGH!

 

Our reply:

The paint remaining is still concealing this cache. Not quite sure how else we

would have retrieved this cache. The log was already wet. We didn't drop it.

If we are back out that way before you, we would be happy to replace the entire

thing. We apologize for any inconvenience. We thought posting the "needs

maintenance loge" was the proper thing to do.

 

Later that evening, we received the following from the owner:

Hello,

 

Welcome to geocaching.

 

In the future, ALWAYS please contact the owner of the cache first before you ever post a "needs maintenance" log. It is a common courtesy. Posting a "needs maintenance log" is very serious and basically means the cache should be maintained or archived because it is inaccessible. The posting of such a log sets a clock in motion where by owners only have so many days to do maintanence--or the cache will be archived. Been caching for over 3 years and never posted that to an owner on a cache. Hide more caches & get a hiders perspective....help when you can.

 

Please note the cache description clearly tells you to bring tweezers for extraction. "Had to go spend a couple bucks for a tool to retrieve the cache. Once we got it out, discovered the log to be soaked, and as mentioned before, no suppliesI" Really considered deleting your "found it" log due to too many hints provided--please consider editing--so it is not deleted.

 

I am deleting the "needs maintenance" log--if you simply moved the vine back over to cover the hole--it can survive the damaged paint job.

 

PS--get used to wet logs this time of year--again--always nice to let a cache owner know about it, but really not a deal breaker in caching. If you want to do a good deed, be resourceful, i.e., you could have easily used the receipt of "the tools" you bought (without returning to nearby stores) and craft that into a new log. Really, even a skinnied down gum wrapper would have done the trick.

 

Please--don't make it a hard on the hiders--remember, we're the ones doing the extra effort & creating the hunt for you. Always help out where you can. Hail to the hiders--we keep the game alive.

 

Thanks!

 

We have hidden only two caches. We have already had to replace one. This person has 50+, so, yes, I can imagine the additional work it takes in keeping them maintained. However, before posting the "needs maintenance" log, we did check to make sure that was the proper thing to do, and that is exactly what it read to do. I did edit my log, as requested, to "thanks". There was nothing in my original log that would have been a spoiler, "the tools", I refered to in my original, was referring to the listing that clearly stated, "we do recommend tweezers". Hail to the hiders...I agree, they provide the hunt and challenge. Am I letting one person take the fun out of it?

Based on what you have posted I would say you have an owner with a poor attitude. Take their comments under consideration and keep having fun caching. You do not have any obligation to do maintenance on a cache that you do not own but many of us do. The owner DOES have an obligation to do maintenance when it is needed. I find the comment about not making it hard on hiders to be pretty lame. If the hider can't maintain the cache it should never have been hidden, or it should be archived.

 

For the high up hide, sometimes you do need special tools or accessories to retrieve a cache. I always try to read the cache page in detail in an effort to avoid situations such as this.

 

To the OP: I would log a DNF and contact the cache owner. You did not find the cache. You may have found the remnants.

 

I don't think I would log a 'DNF'. I would log a note asking the cache owner to check it out. In this case there seems to be ample evidence the cache was not there anymore. in fact, I wouldn't log anything until I emailed the CO. If it turned out the cache was still there after all, I would then log a DNF.

I have no problems with logging DNF's if there is a cache to be found, but to say I did not find something that isn't there seems kinda silly.

Edited December 24, 2009 by brslk

[+briansnat]

How do you go about signing the log on a cache out of reach?

Ever hear of a ladder?

 

I can't understand the big following when people involved in this hobby are so sarcastic, to the point of taking the fun out of it. Have I ever heard of a ladder? No, I have been closeted my entire life.

 

His point was that if the cache is out of reach then that is part of the challenge. Bring a ladder, a long pole, pull your car up and stand on the roof, whatever. Granted his reply was a curt one, but it was on the money.

[+briansnat]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

 

[[[[[snipped for brevity's sake]]]]]

 

In the future, ALWAYS please contact the owner of the cache first before you ever post a "needs maintenance" log. It is a common courtesy. Posting a "needs maintenance log" is very serious and basically means the cache should be maintained or archived because it is inaccessible. The posting of such a log sets a clock in motion where by owners only have so many days to do maintanence--or the cache will be archived. Been caching for over 3 years and never posted that to an owner on a cache.

 

[[[[[snipped again for brevity's sake]]]]]

 

This cache owner has no clue. There is no clock set or anything of the sort when you post a "needs maintenance" log. All it does is tell the owner that his cache needs attention and a cache with a wet log needs attention. You did the right thing and this cache owner is totally off base.

[+Team Cotati]

Not a find since you did not find the container.

 

Why would someone want to log finding a cache when they hadn't done so?

[+AbMagFab]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

We headed out this past Sunday to go see my grandmother. We didn't take any of our supplies with us, just a quick list of some that we would like to find along the way there. The listing described the cache as a small nano, and to bring tweezers. We found the cache, went to a nearby store, purchased some tweezers, retrieved the cache. When we opened the cache, the log was soaking wet. We were later given ideas by the owner, but, put the log back, and replaced the cache where we found it. When we unscrewed the nano, paint rubbed off on my fingers. I logged the find, then posted a needs maintenance. I have included the correspondence with the cache owner below:

 

<snip>

 

 

That's crazy. Post a "needs maintenance" when you find the cache, but it needs maintenance. That's the whole point of that post type. If the CO doesn't want to maintain it, better for the future cachers to see the issues and make a decision to trek out there or not.

 

If you don't find the cache, then post a DNF (or a note, or nothing).

 

(I think they might be confused with "Needs Archiving", which does start a clock ticking.)

[+Harry Dolphin]

I don't think I would log a 'DNF'. I would log a note asking the cache owner to check it out. In this case there seems to be ample evidence the cache was not there anymore. in fact, I wouldn't log anything until I emailed the CO. If it turned out the cache was still there after all, I would then log a DNF.

I have no problems with logging DNF's if there is a cache to be found, but to say I did not find something that isn't there seems kinda silly.

 

You Did Not Find the cache. That's what DNF stands for.

This is the part of DNF that alerts the owner that there might be a problem.

[+WRASTRO]

Post a NEEDS MAINTENANCE - that's the point of this type of log entry. You can post a DNF if you want. I wouldn't post anything else though, since you didn't find the cache.

You are the one I would like to address the following to, if you don't mind!?

We headed out this past Sunday to go see my grandmother. We didn't take any of our supplies with us, just a quick list of some that we would like to find along the way there. The listing described the cache as a small nano, and to bring tweezers. We found the cache, went to a nearby store, purchased some tweezers, retrieved the cache. When we opened the cache, the log was soaking wet. We were later given ideas by the owner, but, put the log back, and replaced the cache where we found it. When we unscrewed the nano, paint rubbed off on my fingers. I logged the find, then posted a needs maintenance. I have included the correspondence with the cache owner below:

 

The following is the note he placed after the needs maintenance post, and following this is the response we sent...

December 21 by ... (3450 found)

Damaged while retreiving cache & a wet log. So a "needs maintenance log" is

posted and now we get to go do maintenance? Let us drop what we're doing & get

right on that one. ARRRRRRRGH!

 

Our reply:

The paint remaining is still concealing this cache. Not quite sure how else we

would have retrieved this cache. The log was already wet. We didn't drop it.

If we are back out that way before you, we would be happy to replace the entire

thing. We apologize for any inconvenience. We thought posting the "needs

maintenance loge" was the proper thing to do.

 

Later that evening, we received the following from the owner:

Hello,

 

Welcome to geocaching.

 

In the future, ALWAYS please contact the owner of the cache first before you ever post a "needs maintenance" log. It is a common courtesy. Posting a "needs maintenance log" is very serious and basically means the cache should be maintained or archived because it is inaccessible. The posting of such a log sets a clock in motion where by owners only have so many days to do maintanence--or the cache will be archived. Been caching for over 3 years and never posted that to an owner on a cache. Hide more caches & get a hiders perspective....help when you can.

 

Please note the cache description clearly tells you to bring tweezers for extraction. "Had to go spend a couple bucks for a tool to retrieve the cache. Once we got it out, discovered the log to be soaked, and as mentioned before, no suppliesI" Really considered deleting your "found it" log due to too many hints provided--please consider editing--so it is not deleted.

 

I am deleting the "needs maintenance" log--if you simply moved the vine back over to cover the hole--it can survive the damaged paint job.

 

PS--get used to wet logs this time of year--again--always nice to let a cache owner know about it, but really not a deal breaker in caching. If you want to do a good deed, be resourceful, i.e., you could have easily used the receipt of "the tools" you bought (without returning to nearby stores) and craft that into a new log. Really, even a skinnied down gum wrapper would have done the trick.

 

Please--don't make it a hard on the hiders--remember, we're the ones doing the extra effort & creating the hunt for you. Always help out where you can. Hail to the hiders--we keep the game alive.

 

Thanks!

 

We have hidden only two caches. We have already had to replace one. This person has 50+, so, yes, I can imagine the additional work it takes in keeping them maintained. However, before posting the "needs maintenance" log, we did check to make sure that was the proper thing to do, and that is exactly what it read to do. I did edit my log, as requested, to "thanks". There was nothing in my original log that would have been a spoiler, "the tools", I refered to in my original, was referring to the listing that clearly stated, "we do recommend tweezers". Hail to the hiders...I agree, they provide the hunt and challenge. Am I letting one person take the fun out of it?

Based on what you have posted I would say you have an owner with a poor attitude. Take their comments under consideration and keep having fun caching. You do not have any obligation to do maintenance on a cache that you do not own but many of us do. The owner DOES have an obligation to do maintenance when it is needed. I find the comment about not making it hard on hiders to be pretty lame. If the hider can't maintain the cache it should never have been hidden, or it should be archived.

 

For the high up hide, sometimes you do need special tools or accessories to retrieve a cache. I always try to read the cache page in detail in an effort to avoid situations such as this.

 

To the OP: I would log a DNF and contact the cache owner. You did not find the cache. You may have found the remnants.

 

I don't think I would log a 'DNF'. I would log a note asking the cache owner to check it out. In this case there seems to be ample evidence the cache was not there anymore. in fact, I wouldn't log anything until I emailed the CO. If it turned out the cache was still there after all, I would then log a DNF.

I have no problems with logging DNF's if there is a cache to be found, but to say I did not find something that isn't there seems kinda silly.

Let's see. You search for a cache and you do not find it. What kind of a log should you post? It does not matter if the cache was in place and viable. You search and you find or you search and you do not find. Seems pretty simple to me. A DNF log when the cache really isn't there is likely more valuable than when the cache is in place. Either way you do not know when you search for the cache so what difference does it make? When I can't find a cache I hunt for I almost always log a DNF since that is what my experience was.