Jump to content

Caches found without GPS?


90%Angel

Recommended Posts

Even if you don't have a GPS yourself, you're still using GPS to find geocaches. At the very least you'll be indirectly using the cache hider's GPSr because that's where the co-ordinates that let you use Google Maps etc. came from. Also, you're also indirectly using the output from the cartographer's GPS surveying equipment. IOW, no matter whether you use your own GPSr or output from someone else's, the only way to find geocaches without using GPS is by accident!

Are we debating the definition of "use" now? :) Sorry, I know what you mean, just find it amusing, that's all. And being Monday, need a lot to amuse myself.

Link to comment

Hi, Im just curious about how many Caches you've found without using a GPS? .. I still don't have one and unless I go with a fellow cacher, Im left to my own devices! LOL.. I'm a realtive 'Newbie', but I've found approximatly a dozen or more without a GPS.. including some up the Coast of Queensland along the Great Barrier Reef! .. soooo .. what's your non-GPS experiences?

 

ive found 50

Link to comment

We found four geocaches without any GPSr while on vacation in Varadero, Cuba. Note that Cuban regulations prohibit bringing a GPSr into the country ! We simply planned ahead of time using maps and log photos as clues. We DNFed on a fifth cache though ! It was great fun.

 

That's Great! Whatever works and reading maps/clues sure can make a difference. I've found several with a friend who uses a GPS and lost Satalight reception, only to end up finding them going on the clues.

Link to comment

I have found one while I was taking a break at work. I had driven about 200 km and needed to stop and take a break. I parked in a small carpool site and was getting my well deserved rest. I looked over and noticed a little trail going into a tree. Lo and behold I walked over and right in front of my eyes was a micro. I signed the log and was refreshed and ready to get back on the road. I am still relatively new at geocaching and my find let me know that my geosense it getting better as I go out more and hunt!

 

I also introduced my dad to the sport recently. He called excited one night. He was at a local graveyard paying respects when he noticed a trail going into the woods. He followed it and found a cache. He was excited to find it. He still needs a GPSr and it is up to me to find him one. He wants one more than ever now!

 

LOL... yeah, I know what you mean.... I've gotten my 2 daughters a friend and a sister into it... and I have my boss to thank for sparking my interest in Caching too. It's a pretty 'addictive' sport!

Link to comment

Even if you don't have a GPS yourself, you're still using GPS to find geocaches. At the very least you'll be indirectly using the cache hider's GPSr because that's where the co-ordinates that let you use Google Maps etc. came from. Also, you're also indirectly using the output from the cartographer's GPS surveying equipment. IOW, no matter whether you use your own GPSr or output from someone else's, the only way to find geocaches without using GPS is by accident!

 

Just a thought ...

 

Geoff

 

Good Point... so in that way, I agree... however that isn't exactly what I meant.. but I think you 'get that'.

Link to comment
Even if you don't have a GPS yourself, you're still using GPS to find geocaches. At the very least you'll be indirectly using the cache hider's GPSr because that's where the co-ordinates that let you use Google Maps etc. came from. Also, you're also indirectly using the output from the cartographer's GPS surveying equipment. IOW, no matter whether you use your own GPSr or output from someone else's, the only way to find geocaches without using GPS is by accident!

Are we debating the definition of "use" now? :) Sorry, I know what you mean, just find it amusing, that's all. And being Monday, need a lot to amuse myself.

 

LOL... well, he does have a point... I didn't post the question to 'ruffle any feathers'... just curious... I certainly do want to get a GPS when I can afford it... for now... guess I'll have to 'piggy back' on the GPS input of others!

Link to comment

Hi, Im just curious about how many Caches you've found without using a GPS? .. I still don't have one and unless I go with a fellow cacher, Im left to my own devices! LOL.. I'm a realtive 'Newbie', but I've found approximatly a dozen or more without a GPS.. including some up the Coast of Queensland along the Great Barrier Reef! .. soooo .. what's your non-GPS experiences?

 

ive found 50

 

I think that's pretty cool. Im not sure why but the fact that so many people find them without a GPS seems to irritate some people that Do Use them? What's with that?

Link to comment

While scouting for a new geocache location today, I accidentally stumbled upon the physical container to a local mystery geocache. Unfortunately, even though I signed the log, the cache owner would not let me log the find online since I didn’t technically solve the puzzle to find the coordinates to the geocache. :)

 

hmmmm.. can they do that? ... I've never heard of that before! So if you happen to find one from a multi cache 'by accident,... you can't log it? that doesnt make much sense to me!

Link to comment

Im not sure why but the fact that so many people find them without a GPS seems to irritate some people that Do Use them? What's with that?

I have no idea and it's bemused me also. AFAICT, the way in which you or I find caches has no impact on others and since it's usually easier to use a mapping GPSr I can't see how using a paper map might be cheating.

 

Most of my 31 physical finds to date have been or could have been made without a GPSr. Although my PDA has a built-in SiRFStar III receiver, I have paperless caching software installed, and I take it with me on every caching trip, it can't get a lock in most woodland and other "difficult" terrain. I used to take prints from Google Maps with me to triangulate from identifiable landmarks if my GPSr couldn't get a lock, but I soon found I was using the GM maps as my primary navigation tool and my GPSr merely for verification. The paperless caching software I now have can use Virtual Earth Hybrid map tiles, so I've got an aerial view readily available without needing printouts. Since the software shows my position on the map, I no longer need to use triangulation unless it loses lock - and this makes caching much easier IMO.

 

FWIW, I intend to get a dedicated GPSr at some stage and was thinking of an eTrex H. However, my experience has shown me that using GM can be a lot easier than using a non-mapping GPSr - so I'll save up until I can afford a Vista HCx, Dakota 20, or Oregon 300.

 

Geoff

Link to comment

I am turning my GPSr on when I cannot found cache without it. I have offline listings in my PDA and part of that listings is photo map - not satelite map but photos taken from aircraft flying in 3000m (available in Czech republic). There is no problem to found cache using this map (cache must not be somewhere in the middle of forest).

Link to comment

Zero. Without a GPS, it's not called geocaching; it's just a glorified easter egg hunt.

 

by who's definition?.... it takes a lot more effort I think, but to each their own.

By DENelson83's definition. Wikipedia disagrees with him, apparently, by stating (bolding mine for emphasis):

 

Geocaching is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers (called "geocaches" or "caches") anywhere in the world.

 

DENelson83's and Groundspeak's definition, it would appear....

 

caching.jpg

 

Most of my 1300 odd finds have been without a GPS.

Sure, I've used a GPS for almost all of them to get me to correct area - but after that it's just me and my eyes that do the finding......

Link to comment

DENelson83's and Groundspeak's definition, it would appear....

"Geocaching is a high-tech treasure hunting game played throughout the world by adventure seekers equipped with GPS devices." {my transcription of the original screenshot)

That seems a non sequitur to me since Groundspeak's definition doesn't exclude navigation by methods other than GPS. Here's an analogy to illustrate: The Camel Trail is a thirty-something mile long trail regularly travelled by those equipped with bicycles. However, that doesn't stop those who're not so equipped from using another method of transport (e.g. walking) to travel the same trail. In the same way, the fact that geocaching is played by those equipped with GPS devices doesn't mean that those who choose some other navigation method can't enjoy the activity. As you say, and many others have said, all a GPS does is get you to the correct area. It seems to me that no matter how you get to the correct area we pretty much all use the same methods to actually find the cache.

 

Geoff

Link to comment

Zero. Without a GPS, it's not called geocaching; it's just a glorified easter egg hunt.

 

by who's definition?.... it takes a lot more effort I think, but to each their own.

By DENelson83's definition. Wikipedia disagrees with him, apparently, by stating (bolding mine for emphasis):

 

Geocaching is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers (called "geocaches" or "caches") anywhere in the world.

 

DENelson83's and Groundspeak's definition, it would appear....

 

caching.jpg

 

Most of my 1300 odd finds have been without a GPS.

Sure, I've used a GPS for almost all of them to get me to correct area - but after that it's just me and my eyes that do the finding......

 

Obviously there is a need for both in many cases. Whatever your choice, Happy Caching!

Link to comment

DENelson83's and Groundspeak's definition, it would appear....

"Geocaching is a high-tech treasure hunting game played throughout the world by adventure seekers equipped with GPS devices." {my transcription of the original screenshot)

That seems a non sequitur to me since Groundspeak's definition doesn't exclude navigation by methods other than GPS. Here's an analogy to illustrate: The Camel Trail is a thirty-something mile long trail regularly travelled by those equipped with bicycles. However, that doesn't stop those who're not so equipped from using another method of transport (e.g. walking) to travel the same trail. In the same way, the fact that geocaching is played by those equipped with GPS devices doesn't mean that those who choose some other navigation method can't enjoy the activity. As you say, and many others have said, all a GPS does is get you to the correct area. It seems to me that no matter how you get to the correct area we pretty much all use the same methods to actually find the cache.

 

Geoff

 

Absolutely! Thanks for that... I couldn't agree more. In fact a friend that I have often gone with, is so focused on his GPS that by the time he's gotten the Co-ords to come back for the 3rd, 4th or 5th time after loosing them, I've found the Cache. I really do think it is a Sport that is free to be Enjoyed by Everyone, whether they can afford a GPS or not. Happy Caching!

Link to comment

Hi, I have been geocaching for a few months (since August). I didn't have a gps when I started. A careful partnership between google earth and a good os map has helped me tremendously, by marking specific locations and balancing that with the clue. I agree to the comment that, yes indeedy it is a gps sport, however, for some a gps is an investment that takes timeto consider. If you can find your first few without one it can make you more appreciative of the find as well as more observant to the sort of environments cache's are hiden. I now have a gps but to be honest it has made me lazy in using my os map, although I use my os map to plan routes and circuits and take it with me and use in conjunction with gps.

Just my pennies worth of contribution to this discussion.

 

I am upto 64 finds and at least 30 were without gps.

 

Regards,

 

Origamian :)

Link to comment

Hi, I have been geocaching for a few months (since August). I didn't have a gps when I started. A careful partnership between google earth and a good os map has helped me tremendously, by marking specific locations and balancing that with the clue. I agree to the comment that, yes indeedy it is a gps sport, however, for some a gps is an investment that takes timeto consider. If you can find your first few without one it can make you more appreciative of the find as well as more observant to the sort of environments cache's are hiden. I now have a gps but to be honest it has made me lazy in using my os map, although I use my os map to plan routes and circuits and take it with me and use in conjunction with gps.

Just my pennies worth of contribution to this discussion.

 

I am upto 64 finds and at least 30 were without gps.

 

Regards,

 

Origamian :)

 

Well Thanks for your 'pennies' worth... either way, I think it should be enjoyed by anyone with a passion for the Great Outdoors and even those who don't get out enough but would like to. What a great way to get away from the TV or Video games and go for hikes/walks and discover some absolutely beautiful places. GPS or NOT.. if it serves as a catalyst to get people out and moving.. THAT"S Awesome!

Link to comment

While scouting for a new geocache location today, I accidentally stumbled upon the physical container to a local mystery geocache. Unfortunately, even though I signed the log, the cache owner would not let me log the find online since I didn’t technically solve the puzzle to find the coordinates to the geocache. :)

You signed the logbook right. Just cause you found it by pure chance you did locate it and find it. I don't think that would warrant a log deletion. I don't care for it when someone just gives out the answer to a puzzle cache or final of a multi cache, but if they have signed the log book, then I would think it's a find.

 

I've found about a half dozen or so caches by mistake. Some of them letterbox's, some terra's, and some geo's. Just by pure chance I was walking along awhile back and saw a kind of unnatural stick pile, and it was a unpublished letterbox from a letterboxing site or at least I never did find it on a letterboxing website. I've also done the same with some terra's. But I've never had a log deleted, and I've been honest that I found it by accident.

Link to comment

I make Geocaching waaaayyy harder than it should be sometimes. Whenever I identify a cache that is located in a remote area then I go to my 1:24,000 scale topo map to try and find it. After I plot the cache onto the map using the UTM coords, I will go to a known point or shoot azimuths from known points to find my current coords and then it is just a matter of measuring the distance to the cache in meters, converting the grid azimuth to a magnetic azimuth while figuring in the magnetic declination for the compass, and finally keeping a good pace count to the cache. Once I think I have arrived I will shoot intersecting back azimuths and adjust from there. It is very difficult to find a small item by using this method. The reason being GPSr on a clear day have very small margins of error whereas a 1:24,000 scale topo map is only accurate to within 24meters 90% of the time. So if you are already off say 50 meters, then your search area has just grown by that much more. I have found 7 desert caches by using this method, but it takes a much longer time to do. I do it just to practice my map reading skills for later hikes. I never use this method while taking my 5 year old out on caching trips. I want her to actually enjoy the experience.

 

I could see how someone could log multiple GPSr-less finds in urban areas. Especially experienced cachers. Some urban finds are no brainers once you are in the right area. If it is in an area where you can use Google street view to pinpoint its location, that shouldn't count. That is a give me. Try using your satellite maps and memory to locate a cache in a forest.

Link to comment

Hi everyone I am a newb for sure! Just started in July of this year. I have found 12 with out a GPS the first 6 I did not have one. I used the info on the cache page an google maps.

But I have had problems with google maps not zooming in close...it seems google maps don't zoom close

in the area I live in, NW PA. Anyone have info on other maps that zoom in close?

thanks

grammy ak donna

-n- maggie

Link to comment

Try using your satellite maps and memory to locate a cache in a forest.

Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt :unsure:

 

FWIW, my GPSr can't get a lock in the forest, so triangulation from known landmarks using Google Maps etc. is the only way I can find Tupperware in the woods. The trick is to maintain your positional awareness as you make your way to the cache, which means plotting your path on the map. Once you understand that major trees, clearings, large rocks, trail intersections, bends in the trail, and also trail direction (it helps to carry a compass) are identifiable landmarks the process becomes much easier. It's just like using a mapping GPSr except you have to manually update the position of the dot!

 

Geoff

Link to comment

We found over 150 caches without any GPS device. We don't have a lot of money for extras like a GPS and I wanted to make sure that If we bought one, it would be VERY helpful AND necessary.

If you print out the maps, read all of the logs and make notes with all of the clues, you can find almost any urban cache. The map can get you within 10 feet or so of the coordinates, which is pretty average with a GPS anyway.

 

I think too many cachers rely only on their GPS and do not develop their geosense, which is a shame.

 

I've found about 20 since buying a GSPMAP 60Cx and am very happy with the purchase--it's handy for caches out in the middle of nowhere and also for storing a whole bunch of info that I would probably forget.

(I'm thinking about finding a cheap used Palm Pilot or similar device to be completely paperless.)

 

I love geocaching--it combines a natural urge to explore things with a love for solving puzzles. The people are awesome and supportive and enthusiastic.

Link to comment

We found over 150 caches without any GPS device. We don't have a lot of money for extras like a GPS and I wanted to make sure that If we bought one, it would be VERY helpful AND necessary.

If you print out the maps, read all of the logs and make notes with all of the clues, you can find almost any urban cache. The map can get you within 10 feet or so of the coordinates, which is pretty average with a GPS anyway.

 

I think too many cachers rely only on their GPS and do not develop their geosense, which is a shame.

 

I've found about 20 since buying a GSPMAP 60Cx and am very happy with the purchase--it's handy for caches out in the middle of nowhere and also for storing a whole bunch of info that I would probably forget.

(I'm thinking about finding a cheap used Palm Pilot or similar device to be completely paperless.)

 

I love geocaching--it combines a natural urge to explore things with a love for solving puzzles. The people are awesome and supportive and enthusiastic.

 

Agree totally and will add that with a bit more experience reading those satellite images you won't need to limit yourself to urban caches. In most woodlands there are point features that can be used to locate a spot within a couple hundred meters of the cache. It may be a stream junction, an evergreen tree in a forest that is primarily deciduous, small clearings, logging trails, laurel patches, etc.. and in winter photos the downed trees are easy to use for navigation except those that are aligned with the shadows of those still standing. Once you are that close a simple pace and compass exercise will get you to GZ

Link to comment

I make Geocaching waaaayyy harder than it should be sometimes. Whenever I identify a cache that is located in a remote area then I go to my 1:24,000 scale topo map to try and find it. After I plot the cache onto the map using the UTM coords, I will go to a known point or shoot azimuths from known points to find my current coords and then it is just a matter of measuring the distance to the cache in meters, converting the grid azimuth to a magnetic azimuth while figuring in the magnetic declination for the compass, and finally keeping a good pace count to the cache. Once I think I have arrived I will shoot intersecting back azimuths and adjust from there. It is very difficult to find a small item by using this method. The reason being GPSr on a clear day have very small margins of error whereas a 1:24,000 scale topo map is only accurate to within 24meters 90% of the time. So if you are already off say 50 meters, then your search area has just grown by that much more. I have found 7 desert caches by using this method, but it takes a much longer time to do. I do it just to practice my map reading skills for later hikes. I never use this method while taking my 5 year old out on caching trips. I want her to actually enjoy the experience.

 

I could see how someone could log multiple GPSr-less finds in urban areas. Especially experienced cachers. Some urban finds are no brainers once you are in the right area. If it is in an area where you can use Google street view to pinpoint its location, that shouldn't count. That is a give me. Try using your satellite maps and memory to locate a cache in a forest.

 

Wow... I can't imagine doing all that to find a Cache. And.. just so you know.. most of the ones Ive found without a GPS have NOT been in urban areas. I figure my count is up to about 30 without a GPS

Link to comment

We found over 150 caches without any GPS device. We don't have a lot of money for extras like a GPS and I wanted to make sure that If we bought one, it would be VERY helpful AND necessary.

If you print out the maps, read all of the logs and make notes with all of the clues, you can find almost any urban cache. The map can get you within 10 feet or so of the coordinates, which is pretty average with a GPS anyway.

 

I think too many cachers rely only on their GPS and do not develop their geosense, which is a shame.

 

I've found about 20 since buying a GSPMAP 60Cx and am very happy with the purchase--it's handy for caches out in the middle of nowhere and also for storing a whole bunch of info that I would probably forget.

(I'm thinking about finding a cheap used Palm Pilot or similar device to be completely paperless.)

 

I love geocaching--it combines a natural urge to explore things with a love for solving puzzles. The people are awesome and supportive and enthusiastic.

 

Good for you... Happy Caching.. with or without a GPS

Link to comment

Driving down a dirt road, I looked over at a hollow tree and said "Now there is a good spot to hide a cache", and walked over and found one inside..

 

Same thing happened to me last weekend. I was hiking on a trail to place a few caches. We climbed to a nice view and saw what appeared to be a good hiding spot 50 feet away. I placed my cache and was getting the coords. While doing so I moved some leaves to cover my cache better and uncovered another cache right below mine. It had been placed a few weeks ago and the owner had yet to submit it. Signed the log and did the FTF dance.

Link to comment

Two, one I found when I was stuck in another town with no GPS, and no computer, but I went to a provincial park to look anyway, based on the age old "If i were a geocache, where would I be?" I managed to find one using this method.

The other one I found while looking for a completley different cache. Something like ".11 miles is way to innacurate, isn't it? the co-ords couldn't be THAT wrong..."

Link to comment

If you check the hides the locations are obvious from the photos. Whether these coordinates were derived from a GPS or the map will really be of no consequence. I know it is against the published rules and understand the reasoning for those rules, but for caches like these it really makes no difference.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...