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Caches Found Most Often


CarlGurt
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Does anyone know how to search geocaching.com to find out which caches, or which caches in an area have been found the most times?

 

CarlGurt of "The Two Reprobates"

 

I don't believe there is a way to search on the site, but addisonbr maintains a list of the most found caches in each state here:

http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...aa-c1605c1d9b5b

 

Last updated in June based on the BM description.

 

If you're looking for an area smaller than a state, you could probably create a thread in a local geocaching community's forum (if there is one) and they'd have a good idea.

Edited by rob3k
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I don't believe there is a way to search on the site, but addisonbr maintains a list of the most found caches in each state here:

http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...aa-c1605c1d9b5b

 

Last updated in June based on the BM description.

Probably about time that I think about refreshing that list.

 

I've never found a reliable way to search for these caches, other than "collecting" them as I discover them.

 

The physical caches with the most finds that I've managed to "collect" (by which I mean to learn about, rather than to find and log) are:

 

Vaclavak / Wenceslas square, 3694 finds (Czech Republic)

Lennon Wall, 3181 finds (Czech Republic)

Prague bridges 1 - Karluv most, 3072 finds (Czech Republic)

ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE, 2860 finds (Oregon)

Narodni museum 1891, 2715 finds (Czech Republic)

Pendulum - Prague Travel Bug Hotel, 2464 finds (Czech Republic)

Un-Original Stash, 2329 finds (Oregon)

Marx-Engels-Forum (Berlin Alexanderplatz), 2317 finds (Germany)

 

According to the cache page and online logs, "Prague bridges 1 - Karluv most" was published in early 2008 and averages an astounding 4.5 finds per day. Wow.

 

I have absolutely no reason to believe this list is complete. But as I find 'em, I just add 'em to the list, so hopefully over time it gets closer.

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I don't believe there is a way to search on the site, but addisonbr maintains a list of the most found caches in each state here:

http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...aa-c1605c1d9b5b

 

Last updated in June based on the BM description.

Probably about time that I think about refreshing that list.

 

I've never found a reliable way to search for these caches, other than "collecting" them as I discover them.

 

The physical caches with the most finds that I've managed to "collect" (by which I mean to learn about, rather than to find and log) are:

 

Vaclavak / Wenceslas square, 3694 finds (Czech Republic)

Lennon Wall, 3181 finds (Czech Republic)

Prague bridges 1 - Karluv most, 3072 finds (Czech Republic)

ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE, 2860 finds (Oregon)

Narodni museum 1891, 2715 finds (Czech Republic)

Pendulum - Prague Travel Bug Hotel, 2464 finds (Czech Republic)

Un-Original Stash, 2329 finds (Oregon)

Marx-Engels-Forum (Berlin Alexanderplatz), 2317 finds (Germany)

 

According to the cache page and online logs, "Prague bridges 1 - Karluv most" was published in early 2008 and averages an astounding 4.5 finds per day. Wow.

 

I have absolutely no reason to believe this list is complete. But as I find 'em, I just add 'em to the list, so hopefully over time it gets closer.

 

I had just taken it as a given that ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE is the most found physical cache. Very interesting to see that there are a few CR caches with more finds.

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I don't believe there is a way to search on the site, but addisonbr maintains a list of the most found caches in each state here:

http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...aa-c1605c1d9b5b

 

Last updated in June based on the BM description.

Probably about time that I think about refreshing that list.

 

I've never found a reliable way to search for these caches, other than "collecting" them as I discover them.

 

The physical caches with the most finds that I've managed to "collect" (by which I mean to learn about, rather than to find and log) are:

 

Vaclavak / Wenceslas square, 3694 finds (Czech Republic)

Lennon Wall, 3181 finds (Czech Republic)

Prague bridges 1 - Karluv most, 3072 finds (Czech Republic)

ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE, 2860 finds (Oregon)

Narodni museum 1891, 2715 finds (Czech Republic)

Pendulum - Prague Travel Bug Hotel, 2464 finds (Czech Republic)

Un-Original Stash, 2329 finds (Oregon)

Marx-Engels-Forum (Berlin Alexanderplatz), 2317 finds (Germany)

 

According to the cache page and online logs, "Prague bridges 1 - Karluv most" was published in early 2008 and averages an astounding 4.5 finds per day. Wow.

 

I have absolutely no reason to believe this list is complete. But as I find 'em, I just add 'em to the list, so hopefully over time it gets closer.

 

I had just taken it as a given that ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE is the most found physical cache. Very interesting to see that there are a few CR caches with more finds.

 

Am I the only one who was slightly suspicious that 5 of the 8 most found physical caches in the world are in the Czech Republic? :signalviolin: But I guess it is a Country a little smaller than the State of Indiana, and has 15,500 Geocaches (that's a lot). Either way, it's a strange statistic for them to be the World leader in, and it certainly wouldn't be my first guess where 5 of the 8 most found caches are.

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Am I the only one who was slightly suspicious that 5 of the 8 most found physical caches in the world are in the Czech Republic? :signalviolin: But I guess it is a Country a little smaller than the State of Indiana, and has 15,500 Geocaches (that's a lot). Either way, it's a strange statistic for them to be the World leader in, and it certainly wouldn't be my first guess where 5 of the 8 most found caches are.

I was at first, as well.

 

But in looking into and for these caches, I've noticed that Europe seems to have a very high per capita geocaching rate relative to the US, and traveling is a huge part of the culture across the pond.

 

All of the Czech Republic caches on the above list are in Prague. Caches in internationally prominent cities like Prague with lots of foreign travelers get a lot of attention. Some of the other huge find caches that are further down the list and that I didn't include are in Rome, Berlin, London, Stockholm.

 

I can't speak to everyone's suspicions, but the more I've dabbled in this area, the less suspicious I've become.

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Am I the only one who was slightly suspicious that 5 of the 8 most found physical caches in the world are in the Czech Republic? :signalviolin: But I guess it is a Country a little smaller than the State of Indiana, and has 15,500 Geocaches (that's a lot). Either way, it's a strange statistic for them to be the World leader in, and it certainly wouldn't be my first guess where 5 of the 8 most found caches are.

 

Prague is a gorgeous city (my favorite city to visit in the whole world), and is a tourist hotspot in a dense central European country. I can well believe those figures. I have yet to cache there, but those two locations would be the places to visit by any tourist. I can't wait to revisit Czech Republic / Slovakia, as a cacher this time.

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I was also suspicious of the CR percentage. However, I've had numerous dealings with Czeck cachers over the years (all the way over here in Tennessee), and they've always been very nice and enthusiastic. Apparently one of my lists of geocoin numbers found its way over there, and I had a couple of discoveries of my geocoins by people that couldn't have physically discovered them - but what the heck, that's why I made the list. I usually send them a friendly message, and they've always replied in kind - in fact one of them sent me a bunch of geocoins.

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Apparently one of my lists of geocoin numbers found its way over there, and I had a couple of discoveries of my geocoins by people that couldn't have physically discovered them - but what the heck, that's why I made the list.

 

Could you clarify what you're doing here?

 

and who are you to ask ?

 

Somebody that's curious about this list of geocoin numbers.

 

Sorry, I'm not used to obtuse questions from moderators. If you think I'm violating the forum rules could you just come right out and tell me that? Otherwise, I think I can ask this question. Sduck is perfectly free to not answer.

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Apparently one of my lists of geocoin numbers found its way over there, and I had a couple of discoveries of my geocoins by people that couldn't have physically discovered them - but what the heck, that's why I made the list.

 

Could you clarify what you're doing here?

 

and who are you to ask ?

 

Somebody that's curious about this list of geocoin numbers.

 

Sorry, I'm not used to obtuse questions from moderators. If you think I'm violating the forum rules could you just come right out and tell me that? Otherwise, I think I can ask this question. Sduck is perfectly free to not answer.

 

Well, I don't do it myself, but I'm pretty sure virtual logging of coins is considered an abuse of the system? I'm sure I've seen "virtual" trackables locked in the past.

 

Despite me expressing some doubts earlier in the thread, I'm convinced. The Czech's are caching maniacs. I'm sure they wouldn't lie. Dominik Hasek and Jaromir Jagr, for example, have never lied to me. :signalviolin:

 

EDIT: actually, scratch that, Hasek has lied about retiring a couple times.

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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Heck I'll ask it.

 

Let's start with this from the TB forum.

 

AND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ONE:

If you log a bogus virtual log on a TB, or offer your own TB up for virtual logging you will risk having that TB page locked forever. This means, if you never saw a bug, but got the bug number and you log it, that bug is in risk of being taken out of the game. Don't do this to TB owners who inadvertently might post a photo, or someone else posts a photo, of their TB number. Don't log it virtually. It's considered abuse of the system. And it's not fair play.

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Apparently one of my lists of geocoin numbers found its way over there, and I had a couple of discoveries of my geocoins by people that couldn't have physically discovered them - but what the heck, that's why I made the list.

 

Could you clarify what you're doing here?

 

and who are you to ask ?

 

Somebody that's curious about this list of geocoin numbers.

 

Sorry, I'm not used to obtuse questions from moderators. If you think I'm violating the forum rules could you just come right out and tell me that? Otherwise, I think I can ask this question. Sduck is perfectly free to not answer.

 

Sorry I did no log out on my moderator account before asking, who are you to ask another poster why they are posting in this thread, he explained in his post, it you want to start another thread about list of coins being passed around that's cool to, and he even stated that they sent him free coins.

 

I said something about micros in my post, just thought it was cool, should I not have posted here either?

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who are you to ask another poster why they are posting in this thread

I don't think he was asking why sduck is "here" in this thread. I think he was just asking if sduck could explain in more detail what sduck posted about.

That said, I think the "trackable list" stuff is a little OT.

Me, too. I read that as "Can you explain why you did that" (as in, "what sort of THING are you doing here"), but I guess it could be taken either way. Peace.
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who are you to ask another poster why they are posting in this thread

I don't think he was asking why sduck is "here" in this thread. I think he was just asking if sduck could explain in more detail what sduck posted about.

That said, I think the "trackable list" stuff is a little OT.

Me, too. I read that as "Can you explain why you did that" (as in, "what sort of THING are you doing here"), but I guess it could be taken either way. Peace.

 

This is what I meant. By "here" I meant "with this action described in the quoted post" and not "in this thread". I was not implying in any way that sduck should not be posting in this thread. Sorry for the confusion and for taking things off-topic.

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cool to see washingtons most found cache is the APE cache and it's a 2-3 mile round trip hike. Sure that number will drastically increase next year during geowoodstock

Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

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cool to see washingtons most found cache is the APE cache and it's a 2-3 mile round trip hike. Sure that number will drastically increase next year during geowoodstock

Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

 

I'm in Seattle once a week and still haven't visited, maybe I should shoot them an email. I would like to get that trifecta geocoin, which would also require a visit to portland, but yeah, they just moved so maybe I'll wait a couple of weeks and then hit 'em up

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cool to see washingtons most found cache is the APE cache and it's a 2-3 mile round trip hike. Sure that number will drastically increase next year during geowoodstock

Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

 

Didn't I read that they were going to close shop during the GW weekend...?

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Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

Didn't I read that they were going to close shop during the GW weekend...?
Ah, interesting, thanks. That would certainly add a dash of clarity. It sounds like we can expect the APE cache to extend its lead fairly significantly next spring.
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Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

Didn't I read that they were going to close shop during the GW weekend...?
Ah, interesting, thanks. That would certainly add a dash of clarity. It sounds like we can expect the APE cache to extend its lead fairly significantly next spring.

 

You betcha. I noticed one of the caches on your Bookmark list (which is archived) was near the Midwest Geobash. People are going to go APE over finding that one at the next GW.

 

I also see you have interest in this particular area because you're the guy with the cache with over 1,000 finds in the South End of Central park in NYC. Somehow that didn't end up in my GPS when I was there about a year and a half ago. Maybe next time. You certainly must have picked an excellent hiding spot for that one.

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cool to see washingtons most found cache is the APE cache and it's a 2-3 mile round trip hike. Sure that number will drastically increase next year during geowoodstock

Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

 

Didn't I read that they were going to close shop during the GW weekend...?

 

You could very well have read it somewhere Groundspeak will be very active during GeoWoodstock, am not going to let the cat out of the bag, mainly because I don't have a cat

 

and ya'll could go find the other APE cache, its not found to often at all, must be the terrain me thinks

 

Joe

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Pretty cool to see my RDU TB Hotel on that bookmark list. It was the second cache I put out and had been caching for only a few months.

 

If you add the posted notes to the found it logs it's been visited almost 1500 times. Many cachers both local and passing through revisit it as it's a great location from which to move trackables.

Edited by wimseyguy
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cool to see washingtons most found cache is the APE cache and it's a 2-3 mile round trip hike. Sure that number will drastically increase next year during geowoodstock

Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

 

Didn't I read that they were going to close shop during the GW weekend...?

 

You could very well have read it somewhere Groundspeak will be very active during GeoWoodstock, am not going to let the cat out of the bag, mainly because I don't have a cat

 

 

I could have hallucinated the entire thing because now I can't seem to find the thread that I read it in.

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Could you clarify what you're doing here?
and who are you to ask ?

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I took the statement "Could you clarify what you're doing here?" as something like "Maybe if we know what you're trying to accomplish, we can help you along."

 

And I think that it hinges specifically on THIS statement:

The first few of the most found caches in the world are micro’s

 

If someone is trying to use this criteria as some way of determining which are the "best" caches, they may be sorely disappointed. Just because a cache is found "frequently" doesn't mean that it's the best cache out there.

 

A micro cache hidden on a peak of a lonely mountain may have the most spectacular view imaginable, and may have actual gold dust in it for trade (equal or up). It may be one of those Nirvana points on this globe that once people find it, they never feel like caching again. However, because it's a seventeen mile hike, it's found only 4 times per year.

 

A tupperware cache (with permission) in the parking lot of the Mall of America may be found 20-30 times per day, and people actually line up to sign the cache. The contents are smelly, the log book is full, it's behind the dumpster and has gull poop all over it. But it's been found frequently because it's easily accessible.

 

Note that I didn't equate size with ease of find or accessibility. HOWEVER, it IS true that the more likely a cache is to be found in its environment, the more likely it is for cachers to use smaller and smaller containers. It only makes sense if you want your cache to last more than a day. So, IN GENERAL, a cache that is easily accessible to the general public will be a small or micro container. Also, IN GENERAL, a cache that is easily accessible to the general public will be found more often than one that isn't. Which then means IN GENERAL, a cache that is easily accessible to the general public is likely to be a micro and that many caches on the list of the most found caches will be micros.

 

But again - just because they are readily accessible doesn't mean that they're the "best" (whatever that means).

Edited by Markwell
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I noticed one of the caches on your Bookmark list (which is archived) was near the Midwest Geobash. People are going to go APE over finding that one at the next GW.

Yes, plus the MW Geobash used the same site two years in a row, so that cache got hit huge twice. I actually thought there was going to be more of that, but that seemed to be the only cache that made the list by virtue of being on the grounds of a mega-event (or two).

 

There are a handful of caches that naturally get a lot of geo-tourists - the APE cache, Groundspeak HQ, the Original Stash Tribute Plaque, Mingo, etc. I've always wondered what would happen if one of them was within a stone's throw of a huge event. Guess we're about to find out.

 

I also see you have interest in this particular area because you're the guy with the cache with over 1,000 finds in the South End of Central park in NYC. Somehow that didn't end up in my GPS when I was there about a year and a half ago. Maybe next time. You certainly must have picked an excellent hiding spot for that one.

Yep, that's us. When that cache was approaching 1000 finds I tried to figure out all of the other caches in New York that had hit that milestone, and after a time-consuming search was surprised that I couldn't find any. Then I just started getting interested in some of the high find-count caches I had turned up in my search and realized they were sort of interesting to "collect".

 

I can't take any credit for the hiding spot. That was chosen by my (then) six-year-old. I tried to overrule her but was denied.

 

She was right.

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Could you clarify what you're doing here?
and who are you to ask ?

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I took the statement "Could you clarify what you're doing here?" as something like "Maybe if we know what you're trying to accomplish, we can help you along."

 

Sorry to take this in an off-topic direction again, but I just want to clarify. What I specifically meant was this- could you clarify what you (sduck) are referring to when you mentioned your list of geocoins. If you're creating lists of your tracking numbers and sharing that list with other people that's your business, but you should be aware that doing so could very well result in your coins being locked by Groundspeak. I was asking out of curiosity, but I should have been more clear and informative instead of being... obtuse myself.

 

Sduck- Sorry if I came across as a jerk or if I assumed incorrectly. It was not my intent to be a "geo-police" or to otherwise imply that I was somehow above you or your actions.

 

Pretty cool to see my RDU TB Hotel on that bookmark list. It was the second cache I put out and had been caching for only a few months.

 

If you add the posted notes to the found it logs it's been visited almost 1500 times. Many cachers both local and passing through revisit it as it's a great location from which to move trackables.

 

Why have I not found this cache yet? Next time I'm up that way, I'll be IN UR CASH SIGNIN UR LOG.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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If someone is trying to use this criteria as some way of determining which are the "best" caches, they may be sorely disappointed. Just because a cache is found "frequently" doesn't mean that it's the best cache out there.

[snip lots of good points]

I completely agree. The bookmark list even says something to that effect:
It is not, nor is it intended to be, a list of the "best" caches in each area. It's strictly an almanac of numbers with no value judgment.
I have become fascinated by the high-volume caches, but it's absolutely not the same as the "best" caches.

 

Sometimes they could be... I've found some caches that folks will travel hundreds of miles out of their way to visit (APE cache, Mingo, etc.). I think of these as caches that *create* traffic.

 

More often, though, what I've uncovered are caches that appear to *result from* traffic (Central Park, Mall of America, highway rest stops, etc.).

 

Which makes them neither good nor bad, just interesting to observe.

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[

I also see you have interest in this particular area because you're the guy with the cache with over 1,000 finds in the South End of Central park in NYC.

 

(Then addisonbr said)

 

I can't take any credit for the hiding spot. That was chosen by my (then) six-year-old. I tried to overrule her but was denied.

 

She was right.

 

What I said when I found this cache is worth repeating in the forum: This is one of the most elegant caches of the 2000+ I've found. A rare combination of a perfect spot in a high muggle area, a great container specially made for the location, and the ingenuity and energy of youth to put it all together!

This one deserves to be on several "best of" lists as well as the "most found" list.

 

edited to straighten out who said what :)

Edited by hukilaulau
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Apparently one of my lists of geocoin numbers found its way over there, and I had a couple of discoveries of my geocoins by people that couldn't have physically discovered them - but what the heck, that's why I made the list.

 

Could you clarify what you're doing here?

 

and who are you to ask ?

I think you may be a victim of indeterminate meaning in grammar. It might be better to ask what he is asking first before swinging that mod button around. I can see two different ways to parse "what you're doing" and one of those has two ways to parse HERE. It all depends on where you put the emphasis.

 

How are you accomplishing this? Why are you bothering with tracking trackables that never travel? What are you doing in this forum? comes last in my list.

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Probably about time that I think about refreshing that list.

Went ahead and updated the list today. Can't say for sure that I have the right cache for each state, but I think I'm close. Also updated the summary stats page.

 

45 of the states stayed the same. 5 are new.

 

The average cache on the list has about 150 additional finds in the last six months or so. Oregon picked up 546. Vermont picked up 9.

 

The number of caches on the list with more than 1000 finds more than doubled, from 8 to 17.

 

There are now two caches that owe placement on the list almost entirely to the Midwest Geobash (Ohio joins Indiana).

 

Interestingly, the average number of "watchers" declined a bit, but the average number of bookmark lists really popped. I noticed tons of new public "Challenge Cache" bookmarks (DeLorme challenges, etc.).

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Am I the only one who was slightly suspicious that 5 of the 8 most found physical caches in the world are in the Czech Republic? :unsure: But I guess it is a Country a little smaller than the State of Indiana, and has 15,500 Geocaches (that's a lot). Either way, it's a strange statistic for them to be the World leader in, and it certainly wouldn't be my first guess where 5 of the 8 most found caches are.

 

Prague is a gorgeous city (my favorite city to visit in the whole world), and is a tourist hotspot in a dense central European country. I can well believe those figures. I have yet to cache there, but those two locations would be the places to visit by any tourist. I can't wait to revisit Czech Republic / Slovakia, as a cacher this time.

 

I'm not Czech but I have cached in Prague (20 finds there), and was amazed by the frequency of finds. Logs are typically signed with the date and time; and on many of my finds I was the 5th or more person to find it on that day.

 

I don't have statistics on it, but from observation of the logs - yes Prague gets lots of tourists in general, but most of the log entries are in Czech language (and good Czech, not automatic translations).

 

And for example in the city of Brno (which gets far less tourists); there is a similar pattern, e.g. This Cache which has 1485 finds in less than 3 years, including 5 yesterday. There aren't so many tourists in Brno in November.

 

It seems that there really are a high number of active geocachers in the Czech Republic.

 

Mark

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The first few of the most found caches in the world are micro’s don’t you just love the irony of that FACT

 

There are exceptions, however. This cache in Vienna (with almost 2500 finds) is a good example

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...53-a2f9613d5dfb

of a very popular inner city cache that it is not a micro and also a good example for a cache with many visits that typically gets very positive logs.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Am I the only one who was slightly suspicious that 5 of the 8 most found physical caches in the world are in the Czech Republic? :unsure: But I guess it is a Country a little smaller than the State of Indiana, and has 15,500 Geocaches (that's a lot). Either way, it's a strange statistic for them to be the World leader in, and it certainly wouldn't be my first guess where 5 of the 8 most found caches are.

 

Apart from the cache density, there are really many high number cachers in the Czech republic in proportion to the number of inhabitants and the size of the country. Have a look at the www.cacherstats.com. There you will notice that there are more than 4000 Czech cachers with more than 200 finds. To compare with, that's about the same order of magnitude as California which is so much larger and has over 70000 caches and it is more than twice the number for Texas. The much larger Germany where geocaching is also extremely popular ends up with a number slightly larger than 14000 on this scale. The value for the Czech republic is also about five times as large as the number for Austria where the growth rates of geocaching are also dramatic.

 

In comparison to the number of inhabitants and the size of the countries, some European countries have overtaken the US already quite some time ago in terms of cache and cacher densitiy. Moreover, cache induced travelling to other countries plays a greater role in Europe than overseas.

 

Cezanne

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Groundspeak HQ has been catching up - it's about 500 finds behind, but has a higher velocity. And it's closer to the GW grounds.

 

But it's not clear to me how many cachers HQ can accommodate in one weekend...

Didn't I read that they were going to close shop during the GW weekend...?
Ah, interesting, thanks. That would certainly add a dash of clarity. It sounds like we can expect the APE cache to extend its lead fairly significantly next spring.

Just following up... in March, the APE cache had about a 500-find lead (~1600 to ~1100 or so). A week or so after GW8, it stands as ~2500 to ~2100. (About 1000 finds each over a three-month period, most of them coming in about a two-week window.)

 

Looks like the event on the 4th let HQ close the gap a little bit after all... all but inevitable that it passes the APE cache some day.

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