Container Question...

[+Cowboy Camper]

Howdy folks.

 

I'm a new owner of a cache made from PVC pipe fittings that has 3 threaded openings in it. I Glued 2 of the 3 openings in the hopes of keeping the inside of the cache dry. (Moisture has been an issue in the past)

 

I tried Teflon Tape on the 3rd opening that I obviously need to keep free so that folks can open the container. My goal is to keep that opening easy to remove while also adding a measure of water tightness to it.

 

The teflon tape proved to be messy after I threaded the cap/plug back open. Regular pipe dope stuff would also be messy on the sleeves or arms of anyone reaching into the container when opened. Leaving the threads dry on that opening can sometimes make it very difficult to open if someone were to tighten it too firmly. I just ran into that problem today, and I was the last one to have closed it!

 

It's not practical to recommend bringing a channel lock pliers to open the cache container, so does anyone have any recommendations as to the best way to seal that opening while still keeping it free to move?

 

Thanks for the help.

[+flask]

best solution?

 

don't use PVC pipe.

 

it invariably leaks, AND it looks a lot like a pipe bomb.

[GOF and Bacall]

If you make the pipe threads water tight the finders will need tools to open it. Pipe, of any type, is a bad idea. Sorry.

[+Minimike2]

Get an O ring to fit the male thread seal.

[+Colonial Cats]

best solution?

 

don't use PVC pipe.

 

it invariably leaks, AND it looks a lot like a pipe bomb.

Yes! Make sure that it does not look like a pipe bomb!

[+SkellyCA]

best solution?

 

don't use PVC pipe.

 

it invariably leaks, AND it looks a lot like a pipe bomb.

Yes! Make sure that it does not look like a pipe bomb!

 

But...but...but then the bomb squad guys would get bored.

[+webscouter.]

I have never seen a dry PVC pipe cache. But sometimes an expanding plug can be used for better results.

 

But my vote is to change the container.

[+cerberus1]

If you insist on a pipe-type container...

You "might" be able to chop off the end with the thread and glue on a connector, OR find a threaded connecting end, being sure to glue the threads. You'll need that reinforced end.

 

Then, use a Cherne "wing-nut" style pipe test plug as your access.

Much more resistant to water than threads.

You still may have people not tighten the wing enough to seal though.

[+briansnat]

It is just a bad container period. Never found one that was dry inside.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Another vote here to use PVC for plumbing, and, may I suggest a nice ammo can for a geocache?

 

I've never seen a dry threaded PVC cache, and I've never seen a dry PVC cache using an expanding plug.

Not to mention that that plug is a pricey item.

[+flask]

well, unlike many here, i HAVE seen dry pvc pipe containers.

 

but then they get put outside and they're done being dry.

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

And I am also going to buck the trend here. I have a number of PVC pipe caches, and water ingress isnt an issue. We are also not as paranoid over here about things looking like bombs. Over here, 90mm PVC doesnt make a completely waterproof cache. Neither the push on, or screw on caps are entirely weatherproof. But the 100mm screw on caps do have a rubber O ring inside the lid, which seals perfectly. Otherwise, be selective with where you place the cache. Some sort of protection from the elements aids in protecting the contents. You could use some silicone grease on the thread, but just make a note on the cache page to make finders aware of this, and to take care not to get it on clothes.

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+briansnat]

And I am also going to buck the trend here. I have a number of PVC pipe caches, and water ingress isnt an issue. We are also not as paranoid over here about things looking like bombs. Over here, 90mm PVC doesnt make a completely waterproof cache. Neither the push on, or screw on caps are entirely weatherproof. But the 100mm screw on caps do have a rubber O ring inside the lid, which seals perfectly. Otherwise, be selective with where you place the cache. Some sort of protection from the elements aids in protecting the contents. You could use some silicone grease on the thread, but just make a note on the cache page to make finders aware of this, and to take care not to get it on clothes.

 

Cheers

Bundy

 

Nearly any container will work well as long as it is protected from the elements. Too often with geocaches , that isn't possible. In those instances cache owners need to select a water resistant container and PVC pipe doesn't make the grade in most instances.

[+Cowboy Camper]

In general, I'm getting an overwhelming Majority Vote to replace the container. But I will Not do so. Here's why:

 

I have a new idea for the main opening folks. Cam Lock fittings!!

 

 

This setup includes a gasket that is put under pressure when the side cams are locked down. Thus ending any threaded connection concerns. And... This is an easy cap to remove and replace properly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regarding any Pipe Bomb concerns:

 

It's a "Y" fitting with 3 threaded caps. 2 are now Glued to keep things sealed, and the 3rd will be replaced with this Cam Lock set up after I order it on-line. (drat! No local source.)

 

Also, it's out in the woods and mostly camouflaged with tree bark glued to the container. In NO way does it look like a bomb or even a good place to put a bomb. Where the bark has fallen off, I've repainted the container with camo paint to cover up the white part of the PVC.

 

Here's a Pic of the container before I painted over the white part.

 

 

I really think this will be the best answer to my own question. What do you guys think? I'll update the Pics when the parts come in and the container has been re painted to look camouflaged again.

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

And I am also going to buck the trend here. I have a number of PVC pipe caches, and water ingress isnt an issue. We are also not as paranoid over here about things looking like bombs. Over here, 90mm PVC doesnt make a completely waterproof cache. Neither the push on, or screw on caps are entirely weatherproof. But the 100mm screw on caps do have a rubber O ring inside the lid, which seals perfectly. Otherwise, be selective with where you place the cache. Some sort of protection from the elements aids in protecting the contents. You could use some silicone grease on the thread, but just make a note on the cache page to make finders aware of this, and to take care not to get it on clothes.

 

Cheers

Bundy

 

Nearly any container will work well as long as it is protected from the elements. Too often with geocaches , that isn't possible. In those instances cache owners need to select a water resistant container and PVC pipe doesn't make the grade in most instances.

 

Having said that, I do have 90mm PVC caches out there, some for over a year, without any water ingress, and they are not under cover. I use a push on end cap, and a screw cap adaptor, that are both glued with PVC adhesive. The screw cap is then put in place. Usually, I then place the cache with the screw cap end down, so it any water does get near it, it cant enter the cache.

PVC caches stand up to the climate over here extremely well. And as previously stated,e are not as paranoid about pipe bombs as you people are.

 

Oh, and speaking of PVC caches, here is a pic of SOME of the parts that went into one of my PVC caches. It hasnt yet been opened.

 

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+burtsbodgers]

Hi

I might be wrong but are you using Plumbing PVC pipe?

Because here in the UK this has to be WATER PROOF, so should not leak whereas if you are using electrical conduit its not waterproof.

However PVC does condensate so are you sure its leaking and not just sweating.

[+Team Cotati]

Hi

I might be wrong but are you using Plumbing PVC pipe?

Because here in the UK this has to be WATER PROOF, so should not leak whereas if you are using electrical conduit its not waterproof.

However PVC does condensate so are you sure its leaking and not just sweating.

 

Electrical conduit is just as water tight as pvc. Neither are water tight unless they are properly sealed.

[+burtsbodgers]

Well having sold waste and soil fittings for the past 20 years the screw threads on the pipe fittings here in the UK normally come with a rubber gasket which only require a firm contact to seal. they dont need to be over tightened, which can sometime distort the gasket causing them to leak.

Currently under building regulations, they need to be able to withstand preasure tests to check that they dont leak. whereas i know of no similar test for electrical conduit.

So i would expect plumbing pvc pipe to be more water proof

[+Team Cotati]

Well having sold waste and soil fittings for the past 20 years the screw threads on the pipe fittings here in the UK normally come with a rubber gasket which only require a firm contact to seal. they dont need to be over tightened, which can sometime distort the gasket causing them to leak.

Currently under building regulations, they need to be able to withstand preasure tests to check that they dont leak. whereas i know of no similar test for electrical conduit.

So i would expect plumbing pvc pipe to be more water proof

 

On this side of the pond, building regulations do not apply to sections of plastic pipe hidden under sticks or leaves and stuff like that.

 

However if you want to keep water from entering them, they need to be properly sealed.

[+Cowboy Camper]

Well having sold waste and soil fittings for the past 20 years the screw threads on the pipe fittings here in the UK normally come with a rubber gasket which only require a firm contact to seal. they dont need to be over tightened, which can sometime distort the gasket causing them to leak.

Currently under building regulations, they need to be able to withstand preasure tests to check that they dont leak. whereas i know of no similar test for electrical conduit.

So i would expect plumbing pvc pipe to be more water proof

 

On this side of the pond, building regulations do not apply to sections of plastic pipe hidden under sticks or leaves and stuff like that.

 

However if you want to keep water from entering them, they need to be properly sealed.

 

Here in the US we have no rubber seals on our PVC Plumbing fittings. For Plumbing installations we'll add Teflon Tape or Pipe Dope to properly seal the threaded fittings against any leakage.

 

However... for my Geocache Container purpose, both of these means of a good seal would be too messy for a cacher to open the container. Also, both methods of sealing against water ingress/plumbing leakage requires tools to open the cap again. For a cache container, I want nobody to have to bring along tools to open the container.

 

The simple to use Cam Lock fittings I have in mind should serve Perfectly. There IS a rubber gasket to keep the water out, and the fitting requires No tools to remove or replace properly.

[+humboldt flier]

Well having sold waste and soil fittings for the past 20 years the screw threads on the pipe fittings here in the UK normally come with a rubber gasket which only require a firm contact to seal. they dont need to be over tightened, which can sometime distort the gasket causing them to leak.

Currently under building regulations, they need to be able to withstand preasure tests to check that they dont leak. whereas i know of no similar test for electrical conduit.

So i would expect plumbing pvc pipe to be more water proof

 

On this side of the pond, building regulations do not apply to sections of plastic pipe hidden under sticks or leaves and stuff like that.

 

However if you want to keep water from entering them, they need to be properly sealed.

 

Here in the US we have no rubber seals on our PVC Plumbing fittings. For Plumbing installations we'll add Teflon Tape or Pipe Dope to properly seal the threaded fittings against any leakage.

 

However... for my Geocache Container purpose, both of these means of a good seal would be too messy for a cacher to open the container. Also, both methods of sealing against water ingress/plumbing leakage requires tools to open the cap again. For a cache container, I want nobody to have to bring along tools to open the container.

 

The simple to use Cam Lock fittings I have in mind should serve Perfectly. There IS a rubber gasket to keep the water out, and the fitting requires No tools to remove or replace properly.

Here in coastal N.W. Calif., where wet is the name of the game there is the added dimension of condensation as a significant factor. Solutions to moisture - none that are lasting. However, some folks add dessicant packages - effectiveness varies.

Edited November 13, 2009 by humboldt flier

[+bittsen]

I would have recommended a waterproof container inside the PVC pipe container.

[+Cowboy Camper]

I'm still awaiting the Parts to come in. Locally, I found these up to the 3" size, but I need 4". Have to order them on line.

 

I think the cam lock fittings will do the trick... but I like the desiccant pack idea too. Where I might find those?

[+Bergie Bunch]

I have several PVC caches and I use a ziplock bag inside everyone, and the swag stays dry!

[+Team Cotati]

I'm still awaiting the Parts to come in. Locally, I found these up to the 3" size, but I need 4". Have to order them on line.

 

I think the cam lock fittings will do the trick... but I like the desiccant pack idea too. Where I might find those?

 

google.com

 

In the search window found there, type: desiccant pack

 

Press the enter key.

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

Here is one of my PVC pipe caches, a TB motel. Its actually a 100mm pipe, with the rubber O ring. It lays out in the open, exposed to the weather, camoflaged only by the rocks. And I am so confident of its waterproofness, thats an occasionally used water dump pipe you can see in the pic. Never ever had water inside, from any means.

 

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+Chrysalides]

Here is one of my PVC pipe caches...

You're lucky to be in a less paranoid country. Over here, the FTF would probably be the bomb squad.

[+WRASTRO]

I'm still awaiting the Parts to come in. Locally, I found these up to the 3" size, but I need 4". Have to order them on line.

 

I think the cam lock fittings will do the trick... but I like the desiccant pack idea too. Where I might find those?

The problem with desiccant is that it attracts the moisture, ensuring you have a wet cache.

[+popokiiti]

Here is one of my PVC pipe caches...

You're lucky to be in a less paranoid country. Over here, the FTF would probably be the bomb squad.

Now there's a thought....I wonder if they log their finds????

[+delphic]

I've used ball valves for PVC caches in the past. They usually have a red handle for opening the valve. For smaller caches an extraction tool is required to get the log but on larger pipes you can get your hand in and pull everything out. Quality valves are pressure tested to 140psi...they should be good enough for rain.

 

Granted...A 4" ball valve is over $100

 

Edited November 16, 2009 by delphic

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

Of course, the other alternative is black irrigation poly. Look at my first pic of all the fittings, and you will see 2 black fittings. Both are end caps, one internal, and one external. They fit onto 1 inch irrigation risers (they elevate a sprinkler head above the ground) and the external cap has an O ring inside. The risers have trheads at each end, and come in various lengths from roughly 4 to 36 inches, so long thin waterproof caches are possible. Custom log books are required, a book about 1/2 inch wide, and as long as the riser is possible. I wouldnt hesitate to use these for an underwater cache.

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+Cowboy Camper]

I have to admit that I have put off on ordering the cam lock fittings on line. I want to exhaust any and All Local sources before I place an on line order. Nobody around here has the cam locks up to 4" so it should appear that I have Struck Out.

 

But... I have one more idea of where I may come up with another solution to my problem. With a name like Cowboy Camper, think RV plumbing fittings. I'll investigate my options with that in mind before I finally give in to the on line option.

 

Another idea popped into my head here tonight as well. Seeing Bundy's array of fittings shown above has me thinking that I now know how to make some nice and small cache containers out of PVC fittings as well. Consider a 3/4" or 1" piece of PVC pipe about 6" long with a glued Cap on one end and a threaded cap on the opening end. Hmm ....

 

I have some running to do after work tomorrow or the next day to get some supplies together. As soon as I can, I'll update some more Pics into this here topic for y'all to see what I have in mind.

[+Cowboy Camper]

Disregard my last post.

 

I'd Delete it out or Edit on my own if I knew how, but... Original ideas didn't pan out and New ideas have come into mind for me.

[+briansnat]

And I am also going to buck the trend here. I have a number of PVC pipe caches, and water ingress isnt an issue. We are also not as paranoid over here about things looking like bombs. Over here, 90mm PVC doesnt make a completely waterproof cache. Neither the push on, or screw on caps are entirely weatherproof. But the 100mm screw on caps do have a rubber O ring inside the lid, which seals perfectly. Otherwise, be selective with where you place the cache. Some sort of protection from the elements aids in protecting the contents. You could use some silicone grease on the thread, but just make a note on the cache page to make finders aware of this, and to take care not to get it on clothes.

 

Cheers

Bundy

 

Nearly any container will work well as long as it is protected from the elements. Too often with geocaches , that isn't possible. In those instances cache owners need to select a water resistant container and PVC pipe doesn't make the grade in most instances.

 

Having said that, I do have 90mm PVC caches out there, some for over a year, without any water ingress, and they are not under cover. I use a push on end cap, and a screw cap adaptor, that are both glued with PVC adhesive. The screw cap is then put in place. Usually, I then place the cache with the screw cap end down, so it any water does get near it, it cant enter the cache.

PVC caches stand up to the climate over here extremely well. And as previously stated,e are not as paranoid about pipe bombs as you people are.

 

Oh, and speaking of PVC caches, here is a pic of SOME of the parts that went into one of my PVC caches. It hasnt yet been opened.

 

 

Cheers

Bundy

 

You have about 50 bucks or more worth of parts there if purchased at Home Depot. If you already have the parts, great. When I first started geocaching I thought about the PVC pipe idea. Once I priced the parts I needed I was approaching about $20 bucks for the container. It is a lot cheaper to buy one of the numerous

other containers that don't have the issues with water entry.

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

All those PVC fittings in my pic went into one cache, along with a heap of others. Total cost was about $200 for the parts. The cache is here, deliberately made difficult, a 5/5.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...f7-5fc875c7aeb5

 

Now, in reference to agricultural poly fittings, here is another of my caches, The Wailing Wall. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a7-12e86d9eb6ec

 

 

Poly riser, 25mm (1 inch) diameter, and 200mm (8 inches) long. The hex head cap, with the rock glued on it, has a rubber seal inside, so its completely waterproof. The cap is designed to stop water leaking out of a fitting, so its not going to let any water in.

 

And here is where its placed, well somewhere in there, with the front of my 4wd to show the scale.

 

 

They do work, PVC caches, yes we do get rain, and sometimes heaps of it here, 18 inches in 3 days in one rain event a couple of years ago. Preparation is the key. And location helps.

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+Cowboy Camper]

I like the way you labeled the container.

 

"Nothing Dangerous Inside"

 

That's a Great Hide, as I imagine that the pipe is actually tucked into the rocks when not in Photo Op mode, eh?

 

That Location looks like a retainer wall by an Overpass for a highway to me. In my part of the world I/we have two problems with such a location.

 

A/ Our retaining walls are solid Concrete. No opportunity for such a hiding spot.

B/ Near an overpass like that... we'd be called out in a hurry as a potential terrorist.

 

But I like that hide idea. Especially if you hid that one 4 or 5 levels up from the road!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

As for the PVC container I currently own, I've changed my mind about modifying it with the cam lock fittings. Privately, I've been advised that I am Local enough to the cache to maintain it well enough so that modifying it will not be necessary. The Original owner was not local, and he never maintained it. Still, it's held up well for 4 and 1/2 years so far. So I'm convinced now that it will be just fine the way it is.

 

As for future hides, I'll use Ammo Cans and another container idea given to me for the Small Caches I'd like to place. I tried making a small container (1 inch diameter pipe by 6 inch long) with the PVC parts in the store, but when it was all assembled and in my hand I couldn't let go of the feeling of how much it looked like a little pipe bomb. I just couldn't do it. I took it all apart and put the fittings and caps back into the bins where I got them from.

 

I don't know the first thing about how to make a bomb, but if I ever was to be found to be the owner of that thing, I'd be taken into FBI custody pretty quick I think. That's just not something I want to have to do when I think about Geocaching.

 

Here's a pic of the Small Containers I'll get instead.

 

 

And here's the site where you can buy some of your own. Small Cache Containers ~ Preform Test Tubes

 

They're small and cheap, and I don't think these will get me into any trouble like the pipes and fittings might.

 

OK, I've said enough for this post tonight. ...

Edited November 26, 2009 by Cowboy Camper

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

Who said its at ground level?? Look at the cache page, terrain and difficulty levels, and the clue. That should give you a bit of an idea. The Wailing Wall has been called the hardest easily accessible cache in town by more than one person.

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+Cowboy Camper]

I didn't look at the cache pages last night. But I did this morning. Clearly you are on a MUCH higher level than I am in this game.

 

I enjoyed reading the logs on both cache pages. I see that the Large one still hasn't been found even with a $100 Cash FTF Prize! Man... You're brutal!

 

But it's been nice talkin' to ya here in this topic. Thanks for all the input so far, and Happy Caching!

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

Yeah, I dont mind a bit of caching.

 

This years holidays were Mrs Bundy and I caching for 29 days, by motorbike, travelling 8200km (about 5000 miles) with 335 finds.

 

Next years holidays are 5 weeks, roughly 5-7000km, with a mega event attendance in there. That will be March/April. I cant wait.

 

Unfortunately, my work doesnt allow me to cache anywhere near as much as I would like to.

 

Cheers

Bundy

[+Cowboy Camper]

I've been away from the forums for a while folks, but I have my answer to my container question. Post #8 was the first to suggest the Test Plug and after having found a cache built like that I agree that it will work well. It's been hidden since 2002 and when we found it it was as dry as can be inside.

 

Pics:

 

Here you can see the grit in the threads. Any grit means water can get in. (Or the cap needs tools to seal and Open the container)

 

The original threaded cap.

Threading this on properly can be tricky. TWICE I ran into the fact that if tightened too much , it can be nearly impossible to open it at another time. Temperature differences alone can contract or expand the fitting enough to jam it. I did this to myself 2 times already on my own, Knowing that I was the last person to have sealed it.

 

At one point, I was convinced enough to replace this one with an Ammo Can. I couldn't get the dadgum thing open to swap out the contents, I had no tools in the car.... I ended up knocking the square plug with the ammo can itself to crack it loose! The ammo can is at the site now, but the PVC container is going to return.

 

With the new Test Plug.

After I rework the camouflage of course!

 

Speaking of that, I have another Opinion question about the camouflage for this one. As you can tell, this was once covered with Bark and was intended to look like a Log. Pretty clever, but not entirely easy to fix right now seein' that I don't have a heated shop to work in for the construction glue I'd need to use to set properly. I'm leaning more toward just painting it up with camo colors and keeping it relatively simple to maintain from now on.

 

But would that make it look Too cheap as a container?

 

Let me know what you think. And thanks in advance.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Thanks for the report. This comes up often enough that your in the field test results oughta make someone's bookmark for responding to the many "threaded PVC" questions.

 

Re camo on the new test plug end. I'm fond of flat black paint. You might be surprised at how nicely it works (okay, maybe not in areas with snow on the ground ;-)..... That PVC will take the Krylon for plastics nicely. If you've got the camo paints, once it's black go ahead and pretty it up with the other colors. Remember to tape the bolt, no paint on the threads! or just a super light dusting.....

[+Cowboy Camper]

One Vote for the Paint job is good enough for me! And, Yes, I have the proper Fusion Paint for plastics.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Incidentally, I've also made the container about 20% Larger by correcting the water problem. Cool!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I'm still awaiting the Parts to come in. Locally, I found these up to the 3" size, but I need 4". Have to order them on line.

 

I think the cam lock fittings will do the trick... but I like the desiccant pack idea too. Where I might find those?

You can find them in the bottom of the bag after you eat your Beef Jerky.

[+niraD]

I like the desiccant pack idea too. Where I might find those?

You can find them in the bottom of the bag after you eat your Beef Jerky.

We've bought them from garden/seed catalogs. They're used for keeping seeds dry when you save seeds from one season to another. Another option is http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=desiccant

 

But they're of limited use for geocaches. They might take care of condensation and other minor sources of moisture in an otherwise watertight container. But they absorb only so much moisture, and once they're saturated, they're useless until you "recharge" them (i.e., bake them at low temperature to drive off the moisture).

[+Cowboy Camper]

Thanks guys, but I'm no longer even looking for the desiccant packs. I believe I have the water problem now Solved!

 

BTW: My PVC container is now ready to return to the field of the hidden! First Pic, the Test Plug end.

 

 

A couple more pics of the final results...

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ya know what? I like the results of this so much that I now have two more of these getting ready for Deployment soon. Hey, I had almost 2 feet of 4 inch PVC Pipe left over that needed to be used somehow. Add 2) 4 inch Caps and 2 more 4 inch test plugs and you'll soon be looking for a couple more caches that will start off by looking like this one.

 

 

I consider myself the type of guy that Evolves as I go along. That said, I'm sure my Camo Paint jobs will only get better as I complete each container.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Cowboy Camper

[+Cowboy Camper]

Accidental Duplicate Post. Sorry about that.

 

Isn't there a way to Delete my own Post?

Edited December 20, 2009 by Cowboy Camper