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Can't we all just get along?


Chi-Town Cacher
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Ok, I'm pretty new to hanging around on this particular forum so I know I don't understand the history behind why some of the heated "discussions" take place. I acknowledge that the discussions are an important part of this forum and they shouldn't be unnecessarily stifled. However, on the, "What GPS should I buy?" threads I really do think we maybe need to work on focussing on trying to help folks who ask for advice. If we don't agree on something of course we can always open a separate thread and verbally bash each others views in a different thread until the cows come home and we won't be cluttering up the OPs thread.

 

So here's my proposal for the more vocal folks here (yeah, I'll include myself in this category). I'd like to propose that in the "What GPS should I buy threads" that we all (including me) agree to feel free to give the best advice we can and agree NOT to butt into other peoples advice on what they feel would be a good fit for OP.

 

Now I know that my own argument against this type of suggestion would be along the lines of, but I can't sit back and let others steer folks towards something that will possibly let them down. Kind of an I owe it to the community to speak up and save them from making a mistake attitude. Well, under my proposal I'd have to learn to bite my tongue and just realize that if folks are really giving folks a bum steer eventually there will be a backlash from those that took their bad advice and it will become apparent to folks seeking advice.

 

Now, as much as I'd hate to do it I'm willing to not only agree to keep my big mouth shut about Garmins. Also, I am willing to go back and edit out my advice against the Garmin eTrex brand in a recent forum thread and I will also remove the "Friends don't let friends buy a Garmin" tag line at the bottom of my posts as a sign that I'm willing to work on keep the "What GPS should I buy?" threads from getting overly cluttered with disagreements.

 

However, I'd really like to see this be a 2 way street and it not just be me willing to agree to not argue over anybody elses advice in a "What GPS should I buy thread?". If the majority of the other vocal folks here would be willing to go along with my proposal then I'd be willing to take the actions I outlined in the paragraph above. Don't forget this gentlemans agreement would only apply to the "What GPS should I buy?" threads and we could still vigorously debate in other threads. Heck we don't even have to like or respect each other, we just agree to not argue against each others recommendations in those threads.

 

I really think we owe it to the OPs who ask for advice to try and stay a bit more on topic with the OPs thread. Yes, I am as guilty as the next person so please don't take this as me pointing fingers at others without realizing that I have some ownership I need to take too. To the ladies out there when I referred to a gentleman's agreement I was not trying to not include you folks since your opinions are important too, it's just a phrase that I mean not to be gender specific.

 

So, are there any takers?

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Yeah, I'm sure it would not be an endevour that didn't have it's challenges, but I'm sure we could make it work. Of course there'd be times I might forget and then somebody would have to give me a friendly reminder that we've made an agreement, or maybe I'd remind somebody else if they slipped up. I really feel it is something that could be accomplished and I think the OPs on those threads would appreciate it.

 

Oh well, I guess we'll just have to see if there's enough takers to make it worthwhile to do. Heck, if we wanted we could try it for a limited time trial, say maybe from now through the last day of October and then we could readdress the issue and see if it needs to be tweaked.

 

Oh, I don't think we need to worry about the moderators too much. I'm sure there are other things they can do to keep busy even if they're not busy trying to keep opposing sides from crossing the line of fair play and keeping the forum family friendly.

 

Thanks for at least giving it some thought! :shocked:

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Haven't been around internet forums much, have we?

 

Be very grateful the forums are moderated. We don't have the truck mounted flame throwers and nuclear devices used on some of the ineternet groups and forums.

 

Jim

Hi Jim. You are correct. I have zero experience with internet forums and I've read this is one of the calmest ones to be found. It's not that I'm opposed to folks vigorously debating because I actually enjoy reading those debates because I once in a while even learn something from them. We could still do all the debating we want I'm just suggesting we stay out of each others faces on one little category of thread.

 

After having said that I do have to admit that even as I was typing my opening proposal that I was kind of pessimistic that it would work. We'll see if anything comes of it or not. I just really think the folks seeking advice would get much better information if we stayed out of each others ways.

 

If nobody cares for the idea, that's ok I guess. Folks will just have to do a little extra digging to find the what they need since the threads will continue to be 80 posts long instead of really only needing to be maybe 30 posts long.

 

Ok, I'm going to stop typing and sit back to see what the general concensus is. Good day all! :shocked:

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Moderators will survive. Continued problem children won't. :-)

 

The WSIB threads are tiresome. Rarely is there enough information in the first post to actually make a good recommendation and, once the proper information is extracted from the OP, the thread is rarely different than the one from yesterday that's probably still on the first page.

 

The trend this year that is driving the moderator team crazy is the self-appointed salesmen that have to make everything personal. The same people pile into every thread with the same vigorous presentation and then start sniping at each other. That's the part that has to stop.

 

I'd like to see the WSIB threads either redirected to any of the existing threads that already contain the needed information and have wound to a halt (without the bickering) or returning to a straightforward question-and-answer mode.

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... Rarely is there enough information in the first post to actually make a good recommendation and, once the proper information is extracted from the OP, the thread is rarely different than the one from yesterday that's probably still on the first page....

 

 

I've notice the OP has usually ran off screaming by about the 15th or 20th post & is no longer even part of the discussion :shocked:

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... Rarely is there enough information in the first post to actually make a good recommendation and, once the proper information is extracted from the OP, the thread is rarely different than the one from yesterday that's probably still on the first page....

 

 

I've notice the OP has usually ran off screaming by about the 15th or 20th post & is no longer even part of the discussion :shocked:

I suspect that would be a very true statement. :blink:

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i agree with pretty much everything said in this thread. that's why for example last night i tried (unsuccessfully) to add some humor. it cracks me up no end how angry, excited, boastful, whatever some people get about their particular brand loyalty. i thought to myself "if someone came up to me and said my truck is better than yours, or my mountain bike is better than yours or my whatever is better than yours, all i would think is: so what?" whether i agreed with the person or not, i wouldn't care what they think. i mean i don't even think i ever hear people getting so deep into why one thing is better or worse, than i do about gpsr's. life is short people.

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.......... If the majority of the other vocal folks here would be willing to go along with my proposal then I'd be willing to take the actions I outlined in the paragraph above.

Would it be better to just implement your side of the agreement without the need for it to be part of a trade? :( I haven't read any of the threads mentioned, however i just see it sensible to "start the ball rolling" and let others catch up if they want to play the game. I don't believe that some people can change their communications style and as such the idea may not be as successful as one first hopes.

 

Including your signature line as it is still seems the wrong way to go about it....."oh, i'll change it if people agree to be nice to each other" :shocked::blink:

 

I hope you understand my opinion. ;)

 

mm

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...So here's my proposal for the more vocal folks here (yeah, I'll include myself in this category). I'd like to propose that in the "What GPS should I buy threads" that we all (including me) agree to feel free to give the best advice we can and agree NOT to butt into other peoples advice on what they feel would be a good fit for OP....

 

Not a bad system. Make your pitch, don't get in someone elses grill, try to address the question the OP asked, and move on to the next "which GPS" thread that's only a few minutes away.

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...So here's my proposal for the more vocal folks here (yeah, I'll include myself in this category). I'd like to propose that in the "What GPS should I buy threads" that we all (including me) agree to feel free to give the best advice we can and agree NOT to butt into other peoples advice on what they feel would be a good fit for OP....

 

Not a bad system. Make your pitch, don't get in someone elses grill, try to address the question the OP asked, and move on to the next "which GPS" thread that's only a few minutes away.

 

And as of right now it is the next one in line.

 

The WSIB threads are quite similar to the "My God is better than your God" discussions.

 

Jim

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.......... If the majority of the other vocal folks here would be willing to go along with my proposal then I'd be willing to take the actions I outlined in the paragraph above.

Would it be better to just implement your side of the agreement without the need for it to be part of a trade? :( I haven't read any of the threads mentioned, however i just see it sensible to "start the ball rolling" and let others catch up if they want to play the game. I don't believe that some people can change their communications style and as such the idea may not be as successful as one first hopes.

 

Including your signature line as it is still seems the wrong way to go about it....."oh, i'll change it if people agree to be nice to each other" :shocked::blink:

 

I hope you understand my opinion. :)

 

mm

I'd actually considered very similar thoughts and discarded the ideas as I was typing my original post. However, seeing somebody else put it in writing convinces me that it was a decent idea that I shouldn't have decided against. So I have deleted the line from my signature block that would possibly be inflammatory. I went back to the recent thread to delete out my point on the eTrex model, but I guess you only have a certain length of time to edit posts because it's not an option at this point.

 

So thanks for the suggestion and I've done what I can to try and be willing to make the first move. Happy caching everybody! ;)

Edited by Michigan Cacheman
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And as of right now it is the next one in line.

 

The WSIB threads are quite similar to the "My God is better than your God" discussions.

 

Jim

 

But MY god IS better than your God!! :):(:blink::(;)

 

Kidding, kidding, kidding! :( Just kidding! :( :(

 

 

Now I lay me down to sleep,but I'm still unclear which GPS to keep?

If I die before I wake,which model should I take?.......

 

 

 

:shocked:

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Ah, this forum is light duty for not getting along. Try getting a bunch of 4 wheel drive buffs together in moab if you want to see some good banter. Of course it then turns into the testing and proving phase, which unites everyone in pitching in to pick up the pieces and trying to get everyone back from the trail so the crying in the beer can start, followed by the "banter" which leads to day two of carnage.......

 

My wife would probably trust me to get together with this group. I'm of course banned from others.

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The trend this year that is driving the moderator team crazy is the self-appointed salesmen that have to make everything personal. The same people pile into every thread with the same vigorous presentation and then start sniping at each other. That's the part that has to stop.

Wouldn't you know it that this would be the year I'm looking at getting a new gps :shocked: I too have noticed this and am finding it difficult weeding out the info from the fluff. I feel like I just walked onto a used car lot. Reminds me of the rambling people in the Bing commercials.

 

 

 

This message was not brought to you by Bing ™, © 2009 Microsoft.

 

Just saying...

Edited by JDiablo
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It's a nice idea but implementation...

 

If we could all get along, we wouldn't need moderators. :shocked:

Yes, and the title expresses great sentiment.

 

Now, IIRC, it was either coined or popularized by Rodney King.

After which, he got drunk again and beat the crap out of his wife once more.

 

So, to be serious about it, one should really practice that which they spout.

 

Just sayin'..........

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...I'd like to see the WSIB threads either redirected to any of the existing threads that already contain the needed information and have wound to a halt (without the bickering) or returning to a straightforward question-and-answer mode.
Robert, I'd go further. Just close/lock any open-ended WSIB inquiry with a pointer to the GPS Buyers Guide on the GC.com website -- inviting folks to come back and post specific questions if they have any. Of course, within a week the whole first page of the forum would be locked threads.

 

And if you want people to "just get along," you need to do more than police the WSIB threads. Two thoughts spring to mind immediately:

 

1) Impose a temporary forum ban on anyone who calls someone else stupid, ignorant, or a liar -- or uses other language that a reasonable person would consider inflammatory or abusive. I'm comfortable leaving it to the mod's judgment where to draw the line on "inflammatory" -- there's a broad chasm between saying "You're wrong" and "You're an ignorant liar."

 

2) Impose a permanent Forum AND Geocaching Website ban on anyone who abuses the PM or "contact member" feature -- e.g., sending harassing, name-calling, and/or profanity-laced PMs and emails to other members.

 

The place might be less colorful with such discipline -- but considerably more useful to those who are really interested in sharing information.

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The only thing I take exception to is when I present my experience and my OPINION and somebody comes along and says my experience and opinions are wrong and invalid. That should end.

That's wrong and invalid.

 

 

Kidding! Kidding!

 

(now if I'm Vinny the second line wouldn't have been necessary... anyone heard from him lately?)

 

To the OP : humans have been fighting throughout pretty much all of recorded history, and possibly before that. Perhaps we're just a flawed species.

Edited by Chrysalides
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The only thing I take exception to is when I present my experience and my OPINION and somebody comes along and says my experience and opinions are wrong and invalid. That should end.

That's wrong and invalid.

 

 

Kidding! Kidding!

 

(now if I'm Vinny the second line wouldn't have been necessary... anyone heard from him lately?)

 

To the OP : humans have been fighting throughout pretty much all of recorded history, and possibly before that. Perhaps we're just a flawed species.

Hello everybody. Thank you all for sharing your views on my little post. I really do understand that anytime you get 2 or more folks together you stand a chance of an argument erupting. I also understand that if they're discussing something they're passionate about well lets just say the odds of big disagreements increases exponentially with every word spoken by either side. I really am not trying get everybody to love and respect each other (heck, that would make for some very boring reading). My goal was to see if in one small category of thread if maybe we could focus our energy on helping the OP who hosted the original question.

 

However, with all that being said apparently I'm kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill. So to everybody who's read this thread and to everybody who's contributed I say thanks for sharing your views. Have a good weekend everybody! :D

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However, with all that being said apparently I'm kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

No I think a reminder like this is a good thing,and calling attention to it every now and then brings most people back to center.It costs nothing to do so,burned up a few bytes,nothing more, and worth while I believe.

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However, with all that being said apparently I'm kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

No I think a reminder like this is a good thing,and calling attention to it every now and then brings most people back to center.It costs nothing to do so,burned up a few bytes,nothing more, and worth while I believe.

I'm a firm believer(read : it's worked for me so far) in archetypes, I've found some posts(despite their flammability) invaluable in

separating the "wheat from the chaff" regarding the posters ability to provide assistance to fellow GPS enthusiasts. Albeit my first

posts to this forum were venting and expressing precognition regarding the short falls of an equipment manufacturer, "I'm feeling

much better now", and mostly over it. Honestly, I've seen very few topics go too far into the abyss of uselessness, even factoring

in the dilution accumulated from bickering; the moderators have been doing a fine job in my book, and there's only one(nameless)

that IMO might be perhaps a little "quick on the draw". Overall the Mods are doing a commendable job, on par or better

than some other forums I frequent(some "motor-head" forums can be brutal).

 

That being said, I'm happy with the Status Quo.

Debate is good, as are honor and respect.

If posters remember that their comments live forever perhaps they'll exercise more personal restraint, I have confidence that

we as a whole are capable of diligence and self-control, (we) just occasionally need to be grounded to dissipate the (emotional)charge.

 

Which reminds me of something a couple of administrators(they mostly prefer the term manager) occasionally need reminding of :

"Respect, and contempt have(at least) one commonality, they're both earned!"

 

Norm

 

As I wrote this, I was moderating the play of two very spirited hounds, one four and a half, the other 12 weeks, moderating ain't easy!

Yup, I'm the fun police! Protecting the big'n from the lil'n 'till the "puppy license" expires, she does respect his fragility(until he ain't).

Although seemingly off-topic, really deep down, this is an analogy!

Time to take Deckard aka "tenacious 'D'" out for a constitutional.

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The only thing I take exception to is when I present my experience and my OPINION and somebody comes along and says my experience and opinions are wrong and invalid. That should end.

 

If you're speaking of my posts, you misunderstand. :D I am not calling you a liar, I am not saying you're wrong or your points were invalid at the time of your experience. HOWEVER, I AM saying your info is outdated and does not reflect how the units work today. It's NOT an attack on you nor questioning your experience, just pointing out the info is not a true report of how things work today.

 

Post info that relates to today's abilities and it'll be helpful for today's buyers. :lol:

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It's funny, my postings before joining this section of the forums have been nice and helpful, even generous and caring (seriously, check the coin section). Along with some hard issues in my life, the attitudes I came up against in here have really changed my posting style (but mainly in here...go figure). I make comments about my experiences and am told my thoughts are incorrect, my observations are inaccurate....even questioned. I feel and felt as Starbrand...my attitude then became defensive since I was constantly defending my experiences.

 

Over time, I was then labeled a FANBOY (which I kinda took in jest, and even boasted as being the pres), but pinning a name on someone, an unfriendly, inflammatory or one painting you in a bad light should STOP! I am a USER of my favorite GPS, no more, no less. If I can't post my thoughts without the worry someone will brand me, what are these forums for? All of this was let to go even when we're being told not to make things personal?

 

Over time, I looked up to many of you posters, a few of you who were in disagreement with me as well as those who stood with me and backed me up at times. As I watched a few of you, I learned from and appreciated your posts. However, one of you seemed to continually take potshots at me (perceived or otherwise). Nothing major, just little jabs which were pretty much hidden to look innocent. I was floored when, after thinking I understood, that poster made nice and even shared with me. I appreciated that and even respected that person, just as I respect all of you. Further degrading posts though, along with my continual feeling of needing to defend my views brings us to the here and now.

 

If, as I was asked a while back, everyone STOPPED the personalizing of it all, we stopped banging each other for our thoughts and experiences, I would guess things would be a much friendlier world. I know I would be a nicer guy if I didn't have the feeling that Joe Poster wasn't about to slam me or label me after I make a point. I bet it's the same for others. And, I know, I am no saint here...it does go both ways!

 

I would like to apologize to everyone, I blew up BIG TIME at one of you here, for reasons related to those potshots. Things got out of hand and I am sorry for that. I could have handled it better, no doubt about that, but also feel things could have been handled differently by others as well. I do regret my ouburst, it did make me out as a hothead. I am far from that, but life and the recent issues did bring out the worst in me, sorry.

 

Will I change my postings? No, I still will be glad to share my LOVE of my favorite GPS (PN-40...YEAH BABY), but my sharing will try to be less personal just as I hope others will make theirs! If I become rude or obnoxious, if I'm acting the horses rump, PLEASE feel free to point this out NICELY via PM (which is where those types of thoughts belong mind you) or in the thread, but PM is a better place IMHO. No harassment needed, no fear of irking me. Just ask me to lighten up and I will do my best. I would hope others would follow in kind, but can only speak for myself!

 

And, YES, I am proud to support DeLorme. I am honored that others have taken the time to look me up and email or PM me for my opinions. I hope this continues, I love helping which is my SOLE purpose for posting in this section!

 

So, ask me why I love my DeLorme, but please don't make the snide remarks which are only meant to inflame ...I will do my best to do the same!! That alone will likely make this place friendlier...be nice and give honest info...without the snideness (is that a word lol), without the hidden jabs and without making it personal!

 

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?? Just saying... :lol::D:P

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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One thing I haven’t noticed being mentioned much yet, is that disagreement of opinions doesn’t mean lack of respect, or not “Getting along” I disagree on many things with those I respect and admire the most, to include my wife. We’re completely opposite in many areas, me being quite conservative, and her being quite liberal. That said, I think we complement one another quite well, and the result is a balanced team, better all around as a result of the combination, or differences.

 

When it comes to GPS units, bottom line, virtually any modern GPS unit will do a great job getting you to the right spot to find a Geocache. Everything else is whistles and bells, the usefulness of which in the end is just opinion. It’s fun, and in my opinion somewhat educational to debate, but not really of any real importance. I will admit I probably learn more about different units because of the debate, and the “Reason X is Better than Y” definitions and comparisons than I do from using the units on my own.

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...I'd like to see the WSIB threads either redirected to any of the existing threads that already contain the needed information and have wound to a halt (without the bickering) or returning to a straightforward question-and-answer mode.
Robert, I'd go further. Just close/lock any open-ended WSIB inquiry with a pointer to the GPS Buyers Guide on the GC.com website -- inviting folks to come back and post specific questions if they have any. Of course, within a week the whole first page of the forum would be locked threads.

 

And if you want people to "just get along," you need to do more than police the WSIB threads. Two thoughts spring to mind immediately:

 

1) Impose a temporary forum ban on anyone who calls someone else stupid, ignorant, or a liar -- or uses other language that a reasonable person would consider inflammatory or abusive. I'm comfortable leaving it to the mod's judgment where to draw the line on "inflammatory" -- there's a broad chasm between saying "You're wrong" and "You're an ignorant liar."

 

2) Impose a permanent Forum AND Geocaching Website ban on anyone who abuses the PM or "contact member" feature -- e.g., sending harassing, name-calling, and/or profanity-laced PMs and emails to other members.

 

The place might be less colorful with such discipline -- but considerably more useful to those who are really interested in sharing information.

 

I am decidedly NOT comfortable leaving such power in the hands of a mod. At least not with some form of checks and balances in place.

 

I am not complaining about the moderators here but they are, after all, human.

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Just what I had hoped wouldn't happen, a newb came in asking for help and was told to go read the pinned topics etc. I fear this person was turned away and then felt unhelped and then went and bought an etrex "H". Now, without having the chance to actually get into the usage questions or chatting about features, I fear this person will be COMPLETELY let down by this decision and might even be turned off from the caching experience.

 

We shouldn't be turning newb questions aside with the push to pinned topics, we're DEFINITELY not helping with that! :D We need to ask questions, answer questions and give good and honest advice if we're going to help people.

 

And Gof & Bacall...I'm with you 100% on your comment!

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This mod doesn't want to ban WSIB threads. But the trend of the same incomplete, incoherent questions that then have a pile-on of the same posters over and over that then start bickering isn't helpful to anyone, either.

 

There is almost never anything _new_ asked or answered in the really open-ended ones. The ones that ask specific questions usually get pretty good help. I don't think that steering people to the previous discussions in the hope that they'll (gasp) learn something is bad.

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New members can be directed to previous material without belittling them. We often see posts that go like this..."Howdy, and welcome to geocaching. If you check the pinned threads at the top of the forum you'll see it's covered. If you still need help after reading that thread feel free to come on back here and ask" or words to that effect. Sometimes the new folks get worked up over nothing.

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This mod doesn't want to ban WSIB threads. But the trend of the same incomplete, incoherent questions that then have a pile-on of the same posters over and over that then start bickering isn't helpful to anyone, either.

 

There is almost never anything _new_ asked or answered in the really open-ended ones. The ones that ask specific questions usually get pretty good help. I don't think that steering people to the previous discussions in the hope that they'll (gasp) learn something is bad.

 

Answering their questions is the best way to get them what they want. If they ask the same questions as what others have, I see no problem answering them. If people start to get heated, you could always come in and smooth things out. Turning them to pinned topics and such is a bit helpful, but makes some feel like they're not important enough to warrant help...sad, but true.

 

Besides, I am with another poster who thinks the back and forths DO offer good and usable info. If that back and forth could be done NICELY, well, we get to help while learning. Best of both worlds IMHO.

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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