Nuvi Screen Shot

[+busterbabes]

I got a Nuvi a few months ago, and really just started playing around with all the "extra" features in the last day or two.

One feature is the "screen shot".

 

Since the Nuvi shows the posted speed limit, and your speed...(on my Nuvi it does, not sure about other models)

 

Could you fight a speeding ticket with a screen shot of the Nuvi at the time the cops wrongfully pulled you over for speeding?

 

This hasn't happened to me, but it popped into my head tonight as a possibile situation for someone someday.

 

Anyone ever had an experience where this has happened? Or just thoughts on it?

[+doingitoldschool]

I got a Nuvi a few months ago, and really just started playing around with all the "extra" features in the last day or two.

One feature is the "screen shot".

 

Since the Nuvi shows the posted speed limit, and your speed...(on my Nuvi it does, not sure about other models)

 

Could you fight a speeding ticket with a screen shot of the Nuvi at the time the cops wrongfully pulled you over for speeding?

 

I doubt it, and they just might add "driving without due care and attention" to the list,

since while you were allegedly speeding, you were also playing with your GPSr!

 

Now I bet this thread gets moved to the tech thread, or off topic.

[+Chrysalides]

I seriously doubt it.

 

There was a case not too long ago, a father had a GPS tracking device in his son's car (son knows about it). Cop says son was speeding. Device says no. Father fought case in court and lost.

[Clan Riffster]

That would probably depend on what Court you were in.

Locally, the burden of proof for a speeding ticket is put on the officer who wrote it.

When the ticketed driver testifies, all (s)he needs to do is create a reasonable doubt.

They don't need to "prove" they weren't speeding.

They only need to demonstrate that the officer "might" be mistaken.

I bet it would work.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Seriously doubt that you could use that as "proof" since all they would have to do is ask you the last time you had the device professionally calibrated.

[+rob3k]

This is an interesting thought, but I think in practice it would be very unlikely for you to just happen to be taking a screen shot at the exact instant the radar gun clocks you. If your screen shot is a few seconds later you could have easily slowed down after being clocked.

 

Chrysalides's example would have a much stronger argument IMO, but apparently that doesn't work either.

[+Wooden Cyclist]

Are we assuming that the police regularly write speeding tickets for people who weren't speeding? I know they makes mistakes sometimes, but I would think its a rare situation.

[+briansnat]

This is an interesting thought, but I think in practice it would be very unlikely for you to just happen to be taking a screen shot at the exact instant the radar gun clocks you. If your screen shot is a few seconds later you could have easily slowed down after being clocked.

 

Chrysalides's example would have a much stronger argument IMO, but apparently that doesn't work either.

 

The units I have all display a max speed on the trip computer screen. I think is probably the screen people are referring to. I don't think anybody was talking about photographing the screen at the time you were

clocked by police.

[CoyoteRed]

Could you fight a speeding ticket with a screen shot of the Nuvi at the time the cops wrongfully pulled you over for speeding?

 

This hasn't happened to me, but it popped into my head tonight as a possibile situation for someone someday.

If you had the presence of mind to take a screen shot at the time the officer is observing you speeding, why not just slow down?

 

If you weren't speeding would you have the presence of mind to take a screen shot as you are being observed thinking you might get pulled over even though you weren't speeding?

 

I'll echo a previous query, is being falsely accused of speeding in your area commonplace?

[+StarBrand]

How about just not speeding??

 

I think the electronic track logs from the unit would tend to be viewed as much superior information in a court tan a simplistic screenshot. You would likely still lose.

[Clan Riffster]

Seriously doubt that you could use that as "proof" since all they would have to do is ask you the last time you had the device professionally calibrated.

You don't need to "prove" anything. The cops are the ones that need "proof". All you need is to introduce reasonable doubt. If Officer Bubba says he clocked you travelling northbound on 1st St at the corner of Main St, doing 75 MPH and you provided a screenshot of your Nuvi that "indicated" you were only doing 55 MPH at that spot, you've just provided reasonable doubt, as defined by statute.

 

How about just not speeding??

While that might seem to be a reasonable viewpoint, it certainly doesn't address the issue at hand, which is utilizing a civilian grade device in an attempt to argue the findings of a law enforcement grade device. I've been radar certified for more than a quarter century, and I can tell you there are significant flaws inherent in these devices, which can, if not properly used, result in someone who is not speeding, getting a ticket for speeding. Since most states use traffic tickets as a means of generating income, jacking the fines way beyond what they need to be, it behooves us to know what means are available to challenge what we feel is an incorrect radar reading.

[+KJcachers]

Seriously doubt that you could use that as "proof" since all they would have to do is ask you the last time you had the device professionally calibrated.

 

That works both ways. My father was a State Trooper and they had to maintain records on all the radars to make sure this didn't come back at them. This rule went into affect after losing a few cases this way. Local cops may not be as up to date on their equipment. Make sure to ask for the serial # of the radar and the maintenance records before going to court. If they don't have good records you may get off easy.

[+busterbabes]

This was just a hypothetical question..what if, etc..

The thought of screenshot IF I were speeding, IF I had the GPS screenshot button on at the time, etc.

The way technology is today, it might be a good defense.

 

Never mind my rambling, my mind just comes up with "what ifs" at times.

 

Thanks fer all the feedback!

[+ecanderson]

 

Could you fight a speeding ticket with a screen shot of the Nuvi at the time the cops wrongfully pulled you over for speeding?

??? Who's to say you didn't slow down before taking the screen shot? Think it through just a little bit and I believe you'll retract the question.

[+radak9]

Seriously doubt that you could use that as "proof" since all they would have to do is ask you the last time you had the device professionally calibrated.

You don't need to "prove" anything. The cops are the ones that need "proof". All you need is to introduce reasonable doubt. If Officer Bubba says he clocked you travelling northbound on 1st St at the corner of Main St, doing 75 MPH and you provided a screenshot of your Nuvi that "indicated" you were only doing 55 MPH at that spot, you've just provided reasonable doubt, as defined by statute.

 

How about just not speeding??

While that might seem to be a reasonable viewpoint, it certainly doesn't address the issue at hand, which is utilizing a civilian grade device in an attempt to argue the findings of a law enforcement grade device. I've been radar certified for more than a quarter century, and I can tell you there are significant flaws inherent in these devices, which can, if not properly used, result in someone who is not speeding, getting a ticket for speeding. Since most states use traffic tickets as a means of generating income, jacking the fines way beyond what they need to be, it behooves us to know what means are available to challenge what we feel is an incorrect radar reading.

In all of the courts that I know about that handles speeding tickets, you are pleading your case to a Judge (no jury of peers involved). You will not create reasonable doubt with a screen shot of your GPS to a Judge educated in the law. You can NEVER prove that the screenshot was taken at the EXACT moment the police officer got you on radar, even with a date and time on the screenshot. Most of the time the P.O. has your speed BEFORE you even see him. Your reaction time from seeing the P.O. to reaching up and taking the screenshot, coupled with the subconcious reaction of decelerating would give you a decreased speed to start with. There are so many other arguements, but let's just say, it wouldn't fly, imho.

 

What you are saying may be good in "theory" but in practice, it would be impossible.

[+Sky King 36]

Could you fight a speeding ticket with a screen shot of the Nuvi at the time the cops wrongfully pulled you over for speeding?

??? Who's to say you didn't slow down before taking the screen shot? Think it through just a little bit and I believe you'll retract the question.

 

No, on the Nuvi's trip computer screen, it shows the maximum speed since the last reset. I think the point is that if you get written for 65 in a 55 and your max speed says 58. I don't think it would fly with most judges, mind you.

 

What might be neat is a "flight recorder" functionality that constantly records the last x hours of driving in a route file (just like most handhelds do) but that is also tagged with time and speed. But still, the manufacturers would have to sell the judicial system on the idea that the track files were encoded in such a way that they are tamper-proof or it would be a useless feature.

[Clan Riffster]

In all of the courts that I know about that handles speeding tickets...

It doesn't matter if you're pleading your case to a Judge, a jury or a clerk.

You are still innocent until proven guilty.

As I mentioned earlier, the defendant doesn't have to "prove" anything.

 

As regarding your example, you seem to be contradicting the basic premise of our legal system.

The citing officer would need to "prove" that your screenshot wasn't taken at the EXACT moment he clocked your car.

 

Not the other way around.

 

I've been testifying in traffic court since '82, and I am simply amazed by what the Judge will allow as reasonable doubt.

A screen shot from an electronic device doesn't even come close to the most outrageous.

[+Chrysalides]

The citing officer would need to "prove" that your screenshot wasn't taken at the EXACT moment he clocked your car.

That sounds extremely twisted to me, but I am not a lawyer (and all that). I seriously doubt it would fly though. But I look forward to hearing about your personal experience if it happens

[+uxorious]

There was a case not too long ago, a father had a GPS tracking device in his son's car (son knows about it). Cop says son was speeding. Device says no. Father fought case in court and lost.

 

I remember reading about a case like this a while ago, where the guy won his case. There is a device you can get that lets you know where, how far and how fast, someone has driven your car. However, it is not like a Nuvi, or other portable GPSr. It is designed to allow you to monitor how someone else is using your car, and should be tamper proof.(hopefully)

[+radak9]

The citing officer would need to "prove" that your screenshot wasn't taken at the EXACT moment he clocked your car.

That sounds extremely twisted to me, but I am not a lawyer (and all that). I seriously doubt it would fly though. But I look forward to hearing about your personal experience if it happens

I agree Chrysalides

 

Clan, you have 5 years on me in court testimony It would be real easy to disprove the picture was done at the exact moment. Human reaction to start with. Either way, realistically this wouldn't happen in "most" courts (admission of the photo), as I'm sure you can attest. The same burden of documentation falls on the defense for evidence as it does the people.

Edited August 30, 2009 by radak9

[+bittsen]

It doesn't matter if you're pleading your case to a Judge, a jury or a clerk.

You are still innocent until proven guilty.

As I mentioned earlier, the defendant doesn't have to "prove" anything. (snip)

 

In a perfect world...

 

I was cited for running a stop sign and had a witness that testified that, not only did I stop at the stop sign, I commented on the fact that they were newly instaled and that the new stop signs were HUGE (almost double the size of standard). I was found guilty.

 

I have been found guilty on a few instances that I was not guilty of a traffic offense. One that stood out was one where I said "the officer didn't prove anything" and the judge said (and I am not kidding) "The officer doesn't have to prove anything. The officer just needs to show up to the trial. His citation is proof enough" (again, I am NOT kidding). The judge literally said that innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to "infractions". And I'm still not kidding!!

 

So, in a perfect world our constitutional rights would be upheld but we live in a world where the courts rely on the income from traffic fines. There is no incentive for municipalities (wspecially small ones) to find a person not guilty of an infraction.

[+Chrysalides]

There was a case not too long ago, a father had a GPS tracking device in his son's car (son knows about it). Cop says son was speeding. Device says no. Father fought case in court and lost.

 

I remember reading about a case like this a while ago, where the guy won his case. There is a device you can get that lets you know where, how far and how fast, someone has driven your car. However, it is not like a Nuvi, or other portable GPSr. It is designed to allow you to monitor how someone else is using your car, and should be tamper proof.(hopefully)

I'm not sure if this is the same case (it was initially reported that he won the case, but the report was incorrect). Here's a starting point, for those who intend to do more research on it.

 

http://technologyexpert.blogspot.com/2007/...r-gun-wins.html

[+EScout]

Many Nuvi models keep a constant track log, with time and position stamps for each track point. This tells you your speed at any given time or position (distance over time is speed.) This is easy to graph with several programs (including GPS Visualizer.) While moving, it appears to give an accurate number. When stopped and then accelerating around a curve, it gives an inaccurate spike, showing the speed much higher than actual.

[Clan Riffster]

I have been found guilty on a few instances that I was not guilty of a traffic offense.

Did you wear a T-shirt that said "I Hate Judges"?

[+rob3k]

This is an interesting thought, but I think in practice it would be very unlikely for you to just happen to be taking a screen shot at the exact instant the radar gun clocks you. If your screen shot is a few seconds later you could have easily slowed down after being clocked.

 

Chrysalides's example would have a much stronger argument IMO, but apparently that doesn't work either.

 

The units I have all display a max speed on the trip computer screen. I think is probably the screen people are referring to. I don't think anybody was talking about photographing the screen at the time you were

clocked by police.

 

Ah, okay! I was picturing an option/button on the unit to save a screen shot of the current view.

[+Rustynails]

I got a Nuvi a few months ago, and really just started playing around with all the "extra" features in the last day or two.

One feature is the "screen shot".

 

Since the Nuvi shows the posted speed limit, and your speed...(on my Nuvi it does, not sure about other models)

 

Could you fight a speeding ticket with a screen shot of the Nuvi at the time the cops wrongfully pulled you over for speeding?

 

This hasn't happened to me, but it popped into my head tonight as a possibile situation for someone someday.

 

Anyone ever had an experience where this has happened? Or just thoughts on it?

 

Here's the easy answer to your question. DON"T SPEED!!! This way you won't have to worry about the cops and a ticket. Idiots who speed are one of the many reasons people die on the highway. Watch the road not your gps and DON"T SPEED.

[knowschad]

How about just not speeding??

 

I think the electronic track logs from the unit would tend to be viewed as much superior information in a court tan a simplistic screenshot. You would likely still lose.

 

 

Yup... there apparently is an electronic log, and that is what was used in the "father/son" case mentioned above. A screen shot would not only not be neccessary, but might get an additional ticket for distracted driving. And all that would show anyway was that you slowed down to a legal speed before taking the screen shot.

 

 

I just Googled the subject, and I see cases mentioned that actually refer to a GPS monitor (recorder?) installed in the car, but that was not the case mentioned above.

[+sweetlife]

Wouldn't want to show the Max speed on our nuvi to a judge, I am a volunteer ambulance driver and take my nuvi on calls, we had a bad one a few months back, and the max speed is at 94.8 MPH. Wouldn't want to take that to court and explain that.

[+Arrow42]

Here's the easy answer to your question. DON"T SPEED!!! This way you won't have to worry about the cops and a ticket. Idiots who speed are one of the many reasons people die on the highway. Watch the road not your gps and DON"T SPEED.

 

It's speeding? I thought it was cell phones that were to blame for every death on the road? dadgum, how am I gonna keep straight who we are fear-mongering when everyone keeps changing it up? (tongue firmly planted in cheek, btw)

 

Anyway, as others have pointed out it's possible for a cop(or his equipment) to be wrong. In fact, I think cops don't pull people over for going 5mph over just to provide a bit of a cushion to avoid pulling over innocent people.

 

The several times I've been pulled over in the last 10 years the cop was correct. Of the two tickets I got, I deserved both. However, if for some reason the cop had made a mistake I would like some way to make my case in a compelling way. I can't speak for the OP, but I know I'm interested in this discussion for that reason.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Arrow42

[knowschad]

Here's the easy answer to your question. DON"T SPEED!!! This way you won't have to worry about the cops and a ticket. Idiots who speed are one of the many reasons people die on the highway. Watch the road not your gps and DON"T SPEED.

 

It's speeding? I thought it was cell phones that were to blame for every death on the road? dadgum, how am I gonna keep straight who we are fear-mongering when everyone keeps changing it up? (tongue firmly planted in cheek, btw)

 

Anyway, as others have pointed out it's possible for a cop(or his equipment) to be wrong. In fact, I think cops don't pull people over for going 5mph over just to provide a bit of a cushion to avoid pulling over innocent people.

 

The several times I've been pulled over in the last 10 years the cop was correct. Of the two tickets I got, I deserved both. However, if for some reason the cop had made a mistake I would like some way to make my case in a compelling way. I can't speak for the OP, but I know I'm interested in this discussion for that reason.

 

 

Actually, I heard a state cop say that it isn't speed that kills. Its stopping.