I moved someone elses cache

[+gtsally]

Shoot me if you must, but please advise what I should do next, if anything.

 

While looking for a cache at a marina, my husband and I were approached by the assistant harbormaster. He asked if we would contact the cache owner to move the cache as he didn't like it's proximity to the landscaping. He said he asked cachers two weeks previously to do the same thing and had not heard anything; and that it would be relocated to his desk if not moved. He said that "they" liked the cache at the marina, just not in the current location. He suggested an alternative spot. We moved it to the suggested location and marked the coords.

 

I sent a message to the cache owner with the what happened and the relocated coords. I said I would move it back when he got permission or another location if he wanted. I included the assist. harbormaster email address as well as my own. He emailed the AHM as if he was replying to me, which the AHM forwarded to me. In it he said that I was the 2nd to report non-authorization of location, that he didn't want a PnG (which the new location was), that he was an acquaintance of the harbormaster and it was okay, and that the AHM was being hyperactive. Oops, talk about "reply all". The AHM replied to him and copied me. And the cache owner replied to AHM, which the AHM forwarded to me.

 

1. I am responsible.

2. I have not heard directly from the cache owner.

3. The two of them have not agreed upon a spot.

[+Jackalgirl]

Shoot me if you must, but please advise what I should do next, if anything.

 

While looking for a cache at a marina, my husband and I were approached by the assistant harbormaster. He asked if we would contact the cache owner to move the cache as he didn't like it's proximity to the landscaping. He said he asked cachers two weeks previously to do the same thing and had not heard anything; and that it would be relocated to his desk if not moved. He said that "they" liked the cache at the marina, just not in the current location. He suggested an alternative spot. We moved it to the suggested location and marked the coords.

 

I sent a message to the cache owner with the what happened and the relocated coords. I said I would move it back when he got permission or another location if he wanted. I included the assist. harbormaster email address as well as my own. He emailed the AHM as if he was replying to me, which the AHM forwarded to me. In it he said that I was the 2nd to report non-authorization of location, that he didn't want a PnG (which the new location was), that he was an acquaintance of the harbormaster and it was okay, and that the AHM was being hyperactive. Oops, talk about "reply all". The AHM replied to him and copied me. And the cache owner replied to AHM, which the AHM forwarded to me.

 

1. I am responsible.

2. I have not heard directly from the cache owner.

3. The two of them have not agreed upon a spot.

 

I understand where you're coming from, and kudos for taking action to take into account the wishes of the property owner.

 

What I'd recommend you do in such a situation, though, is to file a "Should Be Archived" log on the cache (this notifies the reviewer) with some kind of commentary saying "Assistant Harbormaster requested that cache be moved to <new coords>". Make sure that you email the CO and let him/her know what you've done and that he/she should check on the cache and get in communication with his/her cache reviewer to work out the problem. Let the AHM know what you've done; a nice touch would be to monitor the cache listing and wait for the reviewer to comment, then let the AHM know about the process of sending a message via the geocaching.com system (the AHM will have to create an account to do it, but it's free). That way, the AHM can get in comms with both the cache owner AND the reviewer, if necessary.

 

In the meantime, if the CO is to believed, there's clearly a miscommunication between the Harbormaster and the Assistant Harbormaster that needs to be sorted out. Were I the CO or the reviewer, I'd set the cache to "disabled" until all of the staff at the location understand that the cache is wherever it is with permission and to not be alarmed at cachers on the property.

[+sodajerk]

To me you have done the right thing. Maybe get the local reviewer in the discussion as well as post on the cache page so others will not go looking in the old location.

[+JBnW]

I think you did the right thing, even though you're getting blamed for it. Sounds like an issue for the CO, HM and AHM to decide for themselves, and I'd get out of the middle of that discussion...quickly.

[+kunarion]

Shoot me

 

You should at least add a note to the cache log on the web site. If it's bad to have a cache there, it's bad to have people tromping around in a futile search there.

 

If it's only a few feet from the original spot (and the description doesn't narrow it down), maybe people will find it anyway.

[+Knight2000]

I think you did fine considering the circumstances. The CO should live close enough that maintenance should be easy. If you haven't done so I would post the coords that you put the cache in your log so future users might be able to find it until the CO decides what to do with it.

 

I would not post a SBA. Let the owner sort it out. It sounds as if the landowner is favorable for the cache and I am sure that it will be worked out soon considering the crossed up emails.

[+mchaos]

Shoot me if you must, but please advise what I should do next, if anything.

 

While looking for a cache at a marina, my husband and I were approached by the assistant harbormaster. He asked if we would contact the cache owner to move the cache as he didn't like it's proximity to the landscaping. He said he asked cachers two weeks previously to do the same thing and had not heard anything; and that it would be relocated to his desk if not moved. He said that "they" liked the cache at the marina, just not in the current location. He suggested an alternative spot. We moved it to the suggested location and marked the coords.

 

I sent a message to the cache owner with the what happened and the relocated coords. I said I would move it back when he got permission or another location if he wanted. I included the assist. harbormaster email address as well as my own. He emailed the AHM as if he was replying to me, which the AHM forwarded to me. In it he said that I was the 2nd to report non-authorization of location, that he didn't want a PnG (which the new location was), that he was an acquaintance of the harbormaster and it was okay, and that the AHM was being hyperactive. Oops, talk about "reply all". The AHM replied to him and copied me. And the cache owner replied to AHM, which the AHM forwarded to me.

 

1. I am responsible.

2. I have not heard directly from the cache owner.

3. The two of them have not agreed upon a spot.

 

Your in a pickle. I think you did the right thing. I would say wash your hands of it at this point. There is not much you can do. the dispute is between the AHM and the cache owner. You may want to send a reviewer note to temporarily disable the listing until the dispute is worked out between them.

 

This would be some what risky since the cache owner now has you email address.

[+kunarion]

post the coords that you put the cache in your log

Knight,

That's a great idea! I have seen logs with suggested coordinates.

Edited August 3, 2009 by kunarion

[+bittsen]

You did one of the 3 right things.

 

The other two things you could have done were

 

2) Hand the cache to the AHM and say you will let the CO know that the cache is now on the AHMs desk

3) Replace the cache to its original location and email the CO to let them know what was going on.

 

It's not terribly complicated.

 

I would have done #3 but that's just me. Any of the 3 options would be equally OK IMO.

[+J-Way]

2) Hand the cache to the AHM and say you will let the CO know that the cache is now on the AHMs desk

3) Replace the cache to its original location and email the CO to let them know what was going on.

Based on what we know, #2 and #3 are essentially the same act (if you put it back, the AHM will grab it later).

 

I would have done the same as the OP. Move the cache at the request of someone who appears to have authority over the area, record new coordinates, and send all this info to the cache owner. If the cache owner didn't respond fairly quickly, I would add the new coordinates to a "Needs Maintenance" log separate from my "Found It" log. Then I would stay out of it and let the CO, the AHM, and maybe the local reviewer work things out.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

2) Hand the cache to the AHM and say you will let the CO know that the cache is now on the AHMs desk

3) Replace the cache to its original location and email the CO to let them know what was going on.

Based on what we know, #2 and #3 are essentially the same act (if you put it back, the AHM will grab it later).

 

I would have done the same as the OP. Move the cache at the request of someone who appears to have authority over the area, record new coordinates, and send all this info to the cache owner. If the cache owner didn't respond fairly quickly, I would add the new coordinates to a "Needs Maintenance" log separate from my "Found It" log. Then I would stay out of it and let the CO, the AHM, and maybe the local reviewer work things out.

Never, never, never move someone else's cache to a new spot, no matter how much "better" that new spot may be. Moving the cache to a new location to allow others to find it means they are finding a cache that likely isn't hidden the way the CO intended. That's almost the same as finding a cache that isn't published on the site.

 

Even if you write a detailed log explaining the situation, you'll still have people looking for the cache in the original location because they're caching with coordinates alone. That won't make the AHM happy. If he takes the cache (or you give it to him), there will still be people looking for it at the posted coordinates.

 

Email the cache owner. Let them know what happened and let them decide how to fix it. It's their cache, after all. If they decide not to fix it, it should be archived and then you can place your own where the AHM wants you to.

 

If the cache owner *won't* deal with the problem and future finders report problems, escalate it to the reviewer that published the cache. His or her contact info is usually available in the "published" log for any particular cache.

[knowschad]

Based on what we know, #2 and #3 are essentially the same act (if you put it back, the AHM will grab it later).

 

Ask the AHM if you can grab the coordinates for his desk, then post those coordinates in a note on the cache page.

[+Castle Mischief]

Never, never, never move someone else's cache to a new spot, no matter how much "better" that new spot may be. Moving the cache to a new location to allow others to find it means they are finding a cache that likely isn't hidden the way the CO intended. That's almost the same as finding a cache that isn't published on the site.

 

Even if you write a detailed log explaining the situation, you'll still have people looking for the cache in the original location because they're caching with coordinates alone. That won't make the AHM happy. If he takes the cache (or you give it to him), there will still be people looking for it at the posted coordinates.

 

Email the cache owner. Let them know what happened and let them decide how to fix it. It's their cache, after all. If they decide not to fix it, it should be archived and then you can place your own where the AHM wants you to.

 

If the cache owner *won't* deal with the problem and future finders report problems, escalate it to the reviewer that published the cache. His or her contact info is usually available in the "published" log for any particular cache.

 

Considering the circumstances and the alternative (AHM removes the cache) I don't think the OP was in the wrong.

 

The OP acted in the best interest of defusing the situation and making nice with Joe Public. Yes the CO needs to sort things out with the AHM, yes it's the CO responsibility. But with the AHM right there in the guy's face and with full authority to just pick the cache up and toss it in the dumpster if he wants to (permission or no) I don't think you can fault the guy for moving it for him.

 

I think your reading some ill will on the OP's part into this that isn't there.

[+sbell111]

I'd have done the very same thing that the OP did.

[+WRASTRO]

Yep, I agree. Keep the land manager happy and give the CO prompt notice so the problem can be addressed.

[+uxorious]

I wouldn't say the way you handled it was wrong, but I would not move someone else's cache to a new spot.

 

I would let the CO take care of it himself. In this case I might even post a SBA, as the CO has already been informed of the problem.

 

Tough problem though and I hope I never run into it while out caching.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Never, never, never move someone else's cache to a new spot, no matter how much "better" that new spot may be. Moving the cache to a new location to allow others to find it means they are finding a cache that likely isn't hidden the way the CO intended. That's almost the same as finding a cache that isn't published on the site.

 

Even if you write a detailed log explaining the situation, you'll still have people looking for the cache in the original location because they're caching with coordinates alone. That won't make the AHM happy. If he takes the cache (or you give it to him), there will still be people looking for it at the posted coordinates.

 

Email the cache owner. Let them know what happened and let them decide how to fix it. It's their cache, after all. If they decide not to fix it, it should be archived and then you can place your own where the AHM wants you to.

 

If the cache owner *won't* deal with the problem and future finders report problems, escalate it to the reviewer that published the cache. His or her contact info is usually available in the "published" log for any particular cache.

 

Considering the circumstances and the alternative (AHM removes the cache) I don't think the OP was in the wrong.

 

The OP acted in the best interest of defusing the situation and making nice with Joe Public. Yes the CO needs to sort things out with the AHM, yes it's the CO responsibility. But with the AHM right there in the guy's face and with full authority to just pick the cache up and toss it in the dumpster if he wants to (permission or no) I don't think you can fault the guy for moving it for him.

 

I think your reading some ill will on the OP's part into this that isn't there.

Ill will? Absolutely not. i think the OP acted with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, it isn't going to keep cachers from looking for the cache at the posted coordinates. Until the cache owner does something about it (like updating the coords or archiving the cache) the AHM is going to continue to see cachers where he doesn't want them.

[Clan Riffster]

Ill will? Absolutely not. i think the OP acted with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, it isn't going to keep cachers from looking for the cache at the posted coordinates. Until the cache owner does something about it (like updating the coords or archiving the cache) the AHM is going to continue to see cachers where he doesn't want them.

That's true. Folks with yesterday's PQ will show up with no idea that the cache was moved, and will hunt at the coords stored in their devices. This would also happen if the AHM put the cache on his desk, or put the cache in the dumpster. Some hunts are gonna end in a DNF. It happens. At least with the OP's note, those who go to log their DNFs later will see why their hunt ended in failure. I'm thinking that your suggested solution, (leave the cache to be taken by the AHM), would result in the same number of DNFs as the OP's solution. The difference is, at that point, the AHM is all angsty because the nerdy guys playing this silly game won't listen to what he considers to be a reasonable request. He might be less receptive to future inquiries regarding hiding caches at that harbor, based upon his perceptions. Building bridges is better than burning them. By taking the course of action that they did, the OP opened the lines of communication between the CO, the HM & the AHM, without heightening the drama.

[+Castle Mischief]

 

Ill will? Absolutely not. i think the OP acted with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, it isn't going to keep cachers from looking for the cache at the posted coordinates. Until the cache owner does something about it (like updating the coords or archiving the cache) the AHM is going to continue to see cachers where he doesn't want them.

 

My apologies, I may have misread your post. You make a valid point, but that's the danger of stale data in every case like this- there may be cachers looking the wrong spot well after a hypothetical change by the CO.

[AZcachemeister]

Let's get it clear that:

The land manager's desires take precedence over all else.

Period. Paragraph. End of story.

 

The OP should post the co-ordinates of the new (and approved by the land manager) location, and consider their duty fulfilled.

[+Chrysalides]

Unfortunately, it isn't going to keep cachers from looking for the cache at the posted coordinates. Until the cache owner does something about it (like updating the coords or archiving the cache) the AHM is going to continue to see cachers where he doesn't want them.

The AHM could always put up a sign there that says "no longer at this coordinate, relocated to (insert new coordinates)". I assume there should be no permission problem for him.

 

Anyway, FWIW, I think the OP did the least of all possible evils, the best under the circumstances, and would be what I would have done.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Chrysalides

[+Mudfrog]

Let's get it clear that:

The land manager's desires take precedence over all else.

Period. Paragraph. End of story.

 

The OP should post the co-ordinates of the new (and approved by the land manager) location, and consider their duty fulfilled.

 

I agree 100%. If we ignore the request of the AHM, then it may look as though we are defying his authority, which could make the situation worse. For instance, the AHM would likely get the idea that geocachers have no respect for property owners and would tend to develop ill feelings towards geocaching in general. If he has any pull at all, it could lead to future cache placement(s) in the area being nixed.

 

The cache finder's duty,,,, move the cache at the AHM's request, email the CO with the details of the move, then get out of the way and let him/her take action.

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

If the CO is telling the truth, it sounds like difference of opinoin between the HM and AHM. Maybe some type of bad blood there and has just boiled over into this. Thing is it drags geocaching into it. "And here are more of those annoying people hiding crap all over the place and people searching it out."

 

I think what OP did was acceptable and was trying to help appease the land manager (whether assistant or not, that guy was the one in charge at the time) and also trying to keep a fellow cacher's cache active. But at times when you try to help, you are the one who ends up looking like the bad guy. I would have done the same thing as OP; but I guess the other real course of action would have been to hand the cache to the AHM, have him hold onto it, and send a message to CO and reviewer informing them of the situation and let those three sort it all out.

[+hukilaulau]

I am surprised at the number of people who agree with moving someone else's cache to a new location. I think clearly the best thing to have done was let the AHM pick it up, alert the reviewer with a SBA, and let the cache owner decide whether to: A) do nothing and let it be archived by default. B)Pick it up and archive it himself.

C) Pick it up and move it himself to the approved location.

Right now it seems like we have a cache under one cachers name, hidden by soneone else (at a location the "owner" doesn't like), at the request of a third party!

Actually, that's kind of cool in a warped sort of way But it seems like no one is happy with it.

Edited August 4, 2009 by hukilaulau

[+gtsally]

Thank you all for your input. Especially the ones that made me chuckle. When I did what I did, I knew it was very, very wrong and I knew it was very, very right. I have posted a note on the cache log with the relocation coordinates. And I have again notified the cache owner of the same. I don't see myself reporting to any higher authority, though. Don't own any caches, maybe someday. I'm having too much fun just hunting the buggers.

[CoyoteRed]

Shoot me if you must, but please advise what I should do next, if anything.

I think you had very good intentions and I can't fault you for that. The property stewards have the first and last say whether a cache can be on their wards. It's good that you recognized that right off the bat.

 

However, as been mentioned, folks with stale data (read: anything older than real-time in this case) will continue to look in the original spot. You're probably still a little new to know, but folks would still look in the old spot. Many cachers will continue to get more aggressive the longer they look. That wouldn't be good if the spot is in or near a sensitive area. Therefore, moving it might make a bad situation worse.

 

Back when I was new I might have done the same thing as you did. Today, I would explain the situation and advise the AHM to empty the container, including logbook, and place the container back in on near its spot, without being hidden at all if possible, with a note stating "Cache owner, please see me for a new spot or archive this cache." (Or some similar mechanism like a bright laminated card reading "Cache Gone" or something.) Most cachers would report this back to the CO. They won't continue to search for a cache that doesn't exist thus jeopardizing the landscape.

 

You did good, but might cause problems. A little tweak might be in order.

[+J-Way]

Let's get it clear that:

The land manager's desires take precedence over all else.

Period. Paragraph. End of story.

The OP should post the co-ordinates of the new (and approved by the land manager) location, and consider their duty fulfilled.

I agree 100%.

[CoyoteRed]

I don't see myself reporting to any higher authority, though.

That's okay. Personally, I try to do the right thing and if I get the feeling there's not going to be a good outcome or smooth road I'll get a reviewer involved. That could be an SBA or a private note in order to head off accusations of "cache cop" and retaliation. Some folks simply don't have a healthy view of the hobby and figure they can do whatever they please.