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Is CITO DOA?


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When I first started caching, many of my mentors routinely carried trash bags with them, and generally managed to fill them with enough stuff along the way to fill at least one. Then cachers started to hide caches with a film cannister full of "CITO Bags", but that cannister was frequently empty by the time I got to the cache. These days I have found oldeer caches with CITO bag film cannisters that were untouched, and trash lying right next to the cache.

 

Used to have CITO events, and I'm sure there are still some, but the whole CITO concept seems to be going by the wayside, unfortunately. CITO isn't just a way to give geocaching a Good Name... its a way to do the Right Thing! Sure, it might slow you down a bit and reduce your numbers to pick up the trash before leaving the scene (or along the way to the scene) but it makes the world a better place, doesn't it?

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When I first started caching, many of my mentors routinely carried trash bags with them, and generally managed to fill them with enough stuff along the way to fill at least one. Then cachers started to hide caches with a film cannister full of "CITO Bags", but that cannister was frequently empty by the time I got to the cache. These days I have found oldeer caches with CITO bag film cannisters that were untouched, and trash lying right next to the cache.

 

Used to have CITO events, and I'm sure there are still some, but the whole CITO concept seems to be going by the wayside, unfortunately. CITO isn't just a way to give geocaching a Good Name... its a way to do the Right Thing! Sure, it might slow you down a bit and reduce your numbers to pick up the trash before leaving the scene (or along the way to the scene) but it makes the world a better place, doesn't it?

 

When I introduced a couple of friends to geocaching, we collected a lot of trash. They thought it was a great thing to do to recover at least one piece of trash from every geocache location. They even went overboard on a couple.

 

It's not dead. Some people just won't do it, no matter the moral incentive.

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when i do most of my caching, i am living in my car for upwards of three weeks at a time. i rely on trashcans at gas stations and such to dispose of my own trash and i cannot accommodate wet or sticky things. every other day i burn what little paper trash i have in the pizza box, and everything else i have to find a public trashcan for.

 

so no, i don't pick up a lot of trash.

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Ok, i'll say what most people won't.

 

I don't geocache to pick up trash. Picking up trash isn't fun. I don't geocache to "make the world a better place". Yes, I am a selfish american consumer.

 

I do need a CITO event for the icon, though :grin:

 

If Groundspeak wants CITO to gain popularity, add meta-game motivators to the site: badges on your profile for 10, 25 CITO events attended, and i guarantee there will be a lot more CITO events!

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I don't enjoy picking up trash either, but I do enjoy the locations where most caches are hidden. If those same locations were overrun by garbage, I wouldn't like them as much and so while I'm there I have no problem whatsoever with picking up some litter. I now keep extra bags in my backpack just for this. I don't really care to say that it is irresponsible not to, or you're not geocaching 'right' if you don't do this but it is important to me. I am not really a 'tree hugger' type person as a rule, but my conscious does bug me if I walk away from an otherwise beautiful location, and leave the pop cans and litter there when I could have taken 2 extra minutes to throw some of it in a bag. I'm not all that interested in formal CITO events, or special baggies, or icons...just in doing my part while I happen to be there.

 

I'd be really surprised if I was the only one who feels this way, so it's probably being done to some extent, even if not formally.

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My family and I always try to pick up trash along the way. Heck, on my last find, I took a 15 minute downhill ride on my bike and ended up pushing it most of the way back up. At the top, I was drenched in sweat, breathing so heavy I could barely stand. After catching my breath, I pulled a trash bag out of my geo-pack and filled it up before calling it a day.

 

It's a personal thing, though. I appreciate Groundspeak promoting this effort, and I'd be willing to bet that it has led to thousands, if not millions of pounds of trash being hauled away. At a recent event, we took a few hundred pounds of litter away from a riverwalk.

 

So yes, people do still practice CITO.

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I always have some grociry bags with me. I don't always to CITO, but probably on every 5th cache. I especialy do it for caches that are more of a park setting. True Urban caches have way too much garbage, and even if I picked up all the garbage, it would be full by the next day.

 

I also use CITO as a cover for stealth caches.

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CITO is one of the things I love about geocaching, and one of the reasons I registered. I am a noob.. a friend recently introduced me to the idea. However, I have been to trail and park clean up events and such... but me and my friends are of the type to simply do this anyway. When hiking to a cache recently on a trip, I picked up a bit of trash and didnt even think about CITO :grin:

 

I hope CITO- and the philosophy- isnt dead. And I am just reporting here that I know a number of young people who believe in this philosophy, and practice it, even if they are not cachers.

 

This thread is a incentive to me to step it up a bit though! So thanks :P

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I'm heartened by most of the responses in here. When I saw the opening salvo, I kinda wondered if I was the only kook in the crowd.

I actually enjoy picking up trash. To date, I've hosted 7 CITOs and attended 12.

The principles behind CITO were drummed into me as a wee lil' Riffster. Always leave your camp better than how you found it.

I truly believe that this big blue marble we all share is a really kewl place, and litter makes parts of it icky.

If that makes me a tree hugger, I'll wear the title with pride. :)

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I'm heartened by most of the responses in here. When I saw the opening salvo, I kinda wondered if I was the only kook in the crowd.

 

I wish that Keystone hadn't felt the need to move this post here to the CITO forum. I think the reason the responses have changed is that people that are not interested in CITO are not visiting this forum. By moving the post here, I'm simply preaching to the choir.

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When I'm going to intentional to find caches I'll try to take at least a few pieces of garbage on the way out. I'm still pretty new to geocaching but I used to follow "trash out" before I knew anything about "cache in". Unfortunately I've come across some things that were to nasty or too big to remove. For some reason people abandon a lot of really toxic stuff in NYC parks.

 

Some of things I've come across are:

  • Car parts
  • Air Conditioners
  • Refrigerators
  • Cases of beer bottles
  • Bags of trash
  • Empty CO2 and oxygen tanks
  • Medical waste
  • (And a specialty of New York's outer boroughs) Whole cars that have been torched

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I truly believe that this big blue marble we all share is a really kewl place, and litter makes parts of it icky.

If that makes me a tree hugger, I'll wear the title with pride. :)

I've never considered myself a tree-hugger. I'm a "paper" guy at the grocery store. I believe "man-made" global warming is BS. I believe if I want to drive a car that gets 3 mpg, I'll do it without feeling bad (except wanting to cry at the pump:). But I've always felt a responsibility to this "big blue marble" to help keep her clean. I'm the recycling police, the light turner-offer-guy, and furnace thermostat turner-downer-guy. I don't like to be called "green". In fact, I despise the term. I find it dirtier than some cache locations I've cleaned up. That must be why I absolutely LOVE "The Goode Family". If you haven't seen it, and have an opinion about being "green", either one way or the other, you must watch this show. Hilarious!

'Goose

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GC1FQ05 Here At The Tree Removed by property owner!

On June 9. 2009 I took a lunch break before looking for this cache. The property owner checked what I was doing at has property. When I added I was geocaching, He said he threw it away, as well as another W or SW of this location. He reported he was sick and tired of picking up water bottles, fast food bags, and other trash. Also, no one asked his permission to place the cache. I noted the area is clearly "posted keep out".

Can Groundspeak withdraw the privilages of the hider, and send reminders for finders of this cache not to leave any trash? To all hiders and seekers, lets be respectful and considerate, and not spoil the sport for others.

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I've never considered myself a tree-hugger. I'm a "paper" guy at the grocery store. I believe "man-made" global warming is BS. I believe if I want to drive a car that gets 3 mpg, I'll do it without feeling bad (except wanting to cry at the pump:). But I've always felt a responsibility to this "big blue marble" to help keep her clean. I'm the recycling police, the light turner-offer-guy, and furnace thermostat turner-downer-guy. I don't like to be called "green". In fact, I despise the term. I find it dirtier than some cache locations I've cleaned up.

..........

 

"Goose,

 

Read this part of what you wrote and it sounds exactly like me.

 

My dad instilled in us boys, early on, to "Leave a place better than you found it". Sounds like yours did the same. Been doing the TO part of CITO my whole life. May not carry more than a WallyWorld bag out, but there will be less trash. Just think what a site might look like if a few more did the same.

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When I first started caching, many of my mentors routinely carried trash bags with them, and generally managed to fill them with enough stuff along the way to fill at least one. Then cachers started to hide caches with a film cannister full of "CITO Bags", but that cannister was frequently empty by the time I got to the cache. These days I have found oldeer caches with CITO bag film cannisters that were untouched, and trash lying right next to the cache.

 

I've never been to a CITO event,,,,, but,,, I do keep the pastic bags I get from quick-stop stores and the like in my truck and keep one or two of them in my caching bag. I'll pickup trash I find around the cache sites I go to..

I've gone as far as to pick up bigger objects like an old tire or rim and throw that into the bed of my truck.

 

I don't like picking up trash either, but I would rather take a few minutes to pick up some trash than to have a cache archived because the area was becoming too trashy..

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Ok, i'll say what most people won't.

 

I don't geocache to pick up trash. Picking up trash isn't fun. I don't geocache to "make the world a better place". Yes, I am a selfish american consumer.

 

I do need a CITO event for the icon, though :D

 

If Groundspeak wants CITO to gain popularity, add meta-game motivators to the site: badges on your profile for 10, 25 CITO events attended, and i guarantee there will be a lot more CITO events!

 

That is the most short-sighted and self-serving reply that I could have ever imagined. But honest.

 

First off, CITO is not just a type of event, and it most certainly is not just an icon on your profile page. CITO is picking up that water bottle or Coke can on your way back to the car. It makes a difference over time.

 

Nobody thinks of CITO as "fun". And you don't even need to think of it as a "tree-hugger" thing. Think of it, if you must, as a public relations "gimmick" that can help geocaching survive. Because, in a large part, that is true. We recently had an incident near me that caused the park people to take a hard look at geocaching and a possible ban on it. In the end, they gave in, and CITO that we had done there was specifically named as one of the reasons they cited for continuing to permit caching in their parks.

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I'm new to caching, and haven't attended any CITO events yet.

For me, this is just an extension of what I did BEFORE I started caching. I love hiking, and I hate seeing plastic bottles, cigarette butts (and me a smoker!), cans of any kind, and, once at Starved Rock, even a dirty diaper, on or off the trails. It's nice that it has a name, and that they promote it as something positive, but as a previous poster said, Some people will, and some won't. Personal choice, and I won't yell at someone who doesn't unless they are with me and leaving trash. Can't win 'em all, just do what works for YOU.

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Not knowing where to post the info of an upset property owner about picking up trash I chose this forum. I agree with knowshad that this is preaching to the chior. And I am not as concerned about whether people pick up after other people, but with those who leave the trash. Any one who lives with others, or shares any community (cachers, family or just living in the world) shares a responsibility to pick up after themselves. How can the litterers be encouraged to be respectful and considerate, and not spoil the sport for others.

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CJ and I regularly CITO on our way back from a longer hike.

We usually grab "our share" on shorter cache 'n dashes (we're not cleaning IT ALL .)

Very urban caches are usually a no-go for us - paying more attention to the kid who just put his hood up, headed for us, than what's around our feet.

CJ separates the cans as we go (I'm not that patient) and is actually able to buy cache stuff for the kids with the aluminum weight we save each year. That's good AND sad.

 

A smoker, I have a cool little "butt can" the size of a zippo for butts (when Marlboro could give out stuff :D

 

Just did a cache last week that had an old beer bottle (dirt inside/weathered label) TWO FEET from GZ. The cache was placed and six people found it before us, without it being grabbed. CJ stuck it in her bag.

 

So many "numbers" cachers now and the FTF craze seems to get some folks centered on one goal: "Get the prize".

Most aren't even really paying any attention to their surroundings (thought that was what the cache placement was for.) Sometimes I'll ask (troublemaker :D about something that stood out at a cache, at an event or chance meeting and they don't even remember what cache I'm talking about.

Grabbing a can would only slow 'em down.

 

Two years ago, we went to an event that had a CITO a few miles away before it. 12 people showed up for the CITO, 52 for the event.

I don't believe CITO is DOA, just that some are negligent or detached.

 

Cache safe.

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Ok, i'll say what most people won't.

 

I don't geocache to pick up trash. Picking up trash isn't fun. I don't geocache to "make the world a better place". Yes, I am a selfish american consumer.

 

I do need a CITO event for the icon, though :)

 

If Groundspeak wants CITO to gain popularity, add meta-game motivators to the site: badges on your profile for 10, 25 CITO events attended, and i guarantee there will be a lot more CITO events!

 

Ok, so I'll admit to partially agreeing with this. I don't geocache to pick up trash. It isn't fun, it's icky. However, I also agree with this:

 

Nobody thinks of CITO as "fun". And you don't even need to think of it as a "tree-hugger" thing. Think of it, if you must, as a public relations "gimmick" that can help geocaching survive. Because, in a large part, that is true. We recently had an incident near me that caused the park people to take a hard look at geocaching and a possible ban on it. In the end, they gave in, and CITO that we had done there was specifically named as one of the reasons they cited for continuing to permit caching in their parks.

 

So being a noobie and wanting to be a good cacher, I dutifully packed some plastic sacks into my newly christened "geobag." My family doesn't do park and grabs. We do caches that are in natural areas around our home (thankfully I live in an area where there are many) and "out in BFE" caches when we go camping.

 

We just got back from camping where we did some caches that required hiking a mile or more. I saw trash. An astonishing amount, really, considering the relative remoteness of the locations. I didn't pick up a single piece. I was carrying water and food for two small children and two adults. Honestly, I didn't really want someone's yucky trash next to the food in my pack. Ew.

 

I think CITO out in BFE is great in theory. I think it's super yucky to carry someone's garbage down off the mountain, in practice. We are meticulous about our own garbage tho, and we did pick up lots of others' trash around our campsite, because I could deposit it directly in the garbage. We also are pretty good about CITO around our local coords, where we can drop the trash off in can on the way to the car. I just don't like carting it around in my pack.

 

That's my 2 cents.

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I carry grocery bags in my geocaching bag and CITO occasionally. Yes, it's kind of nasty, but I have disposable gloves in my bag also just for this purpose. I figure if everyone picks up a piece of trash occasionally, it will add up to a lot in the end. I'm not a "tree hugger" either, but was raised by a Girl Scout leader mom in the early 70s, so it's just sort of in my nature to do this.

 

I haven't attended an event, but want to one of these days. It's always good to give back a little.

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Not knowing where to post the info of an upset property owner about picking up trash I chose this forum. I agree with knowshad that this is preaching to the chior. And I am not as concerned about whether people pick up after other people, but with those who leave the trash. Any one who lives with others, or shares any community (cachers, family or just living in the world) shares a responsibility to pick up after themselves. How can the litterers be encouraged to be respectful and considerate, and not spoil the sport for others.

 

I have never personally seen a geocacher litter, although I suppose it does happen. But simply not littering does nothing to reduce the existing litter. That is what CITO is all about. If we each picked up just one or two pieces as we hike out of a cache site, we'd have a much more pleasant environment to cache in.

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I was out caching today and there was a large trash bag attached to a tree with garbage all around it including beer cans and cigarette packs. I took the time to pick up most of the trash and put it in the bag and still couldn't find the cache. I pick up when I can it's true if just your efforts are considered at least you make it a better world.

 

WV J

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Ok, i'll say what most people won't.

 

I don't geocache to pick up trash. Picking up trash isn't fun. I don't geocache to "make the world a better place". Yes, I am a selfish american consumer.

 

I do need a CITO event for the icon, though :ph34r:

 

If Groundspeak wants CITO to gain popularity, add meta-game motivators to the site: badges on your profile for 10, 25 CITO events attended, and i guarantee there will be a lot more CITO events!

 

Yeah I don't geocache to pick up trash either... which is why it bugs me so much when people leave trash in a beautiful place! I don't want to be picking that nasty stuff up, but really I can't help it.

 

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c45cf1c6-0bb4-4bc6-8f2b-caf41a003068.jpg

 

This wasn't a CITO event, but once we got started we couldn't stop. I had to get out of my boat every so often to dump the water out of PKs trash can when it'd fill up and he couldn't paddle anymore :ph34r:

The boats got a good scrubbing when we got home.

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85aae03d-1025-4de0-9439-4625d08bc0b2.jpg

 

8dc6d8c5-a2e4-4dc7-adf5-1e58238a7f0a.jpg

 

c45cf1c6-0bb4-4bc6-8f2b-caf41a003068.jpg

 

This wasn't a CITO event, but once we got started we couldn't stop. I had to get out of my boat every so often to dump the water out of PKs trash can when it'd fill up and he couldn't paddle anymore :anicute:

The boats got a good scrubbing when we got home.

 

You could get one of those large, plastic concrete mixing tubs fron Home Depot and tow it behind the kayak... ;)

 

J/K kudos on the trash p/u (the Jeep usually ends up with a bag o' trash after a trail run)

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The parks around here can be pretty trashy. Even before I was a cacher, I'd sometimes carry out bits of plastic. One of the things I really like about caching is the chance to do some cleanup.

 

When I post about a find, I'll sometimes mention CITO, and sometimes post a photo of the trash I took out, just to raise awareness. Sometimes the more you remind people, the more likely they are to remember it.

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So many "numbers" cachers now and the FTF craze seems to get some folks centered on one goal: "Get the prize".

Most aren't even really paying any attention to their surroundings (thought that was what the cache placement was for.)

 

That makes me feel a lot better about how I go about things. It is intimidating to look at the forums and see "2,779 finds" - we are doing one or two here and there and enjoying what we find, even if we don't find the cache!

 

And no matter how much trash we pick up, there are probably more litterers than CITO cachers, so if you see trash it doesn't necessarily mean that no one is picking up.

 

Astabeth

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I don't enjoy picking up trash either, but I do enjoy the locations where most caches are hidden. If those same locations were overrun by garbage, I wouldn't like them as much and so while I'm there I have no problem whatsoever with picking up some litter. I now keep extra bags in my backpack just for this. I don't really care to say that it is irresponsible not to, or you're not geocaching 'right' if you don't do this but it is important to me. I am not really a 'tree hugger' type person as a rule, but my conscious does bug me if I walk away from an otherwise beautiful location, and leave the pop cans and litter there when I could have taken 2 extra minutes to throw some of it in a bag. I'm not all that interested in formal CITO events, or special baggies, or icons...just in doing my part while I happen to be there.

 

I'd be really surprised if I was the only one who feels this way, so it's probably being done to some extent, even if not formally.

 

I pick up trash every time I'm in the woods, whether I'm geocaching or not. I just can't stand for trash to clutter up beautiful places.

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I'm glad to see the responses in this thread. As an old Boy Scout, I was always taught to police my area and leave a location better than I found it. I think this is a great philosophy and one that has a net positive effect for all concerned.

 

I'm also a cyclist and a motorcyclist and I've seen the results when repetitive "bad" behavior has resulted in the restrictions on our access to roads, parks and trails. GeoCaching seems to be another activity that people could shut down if enough people felt we were not, on net, a positive influence on the environments we enter.

 

I think it takes very little extra effort to grab a plastic bag and pick up some trash along the way.

 

Also, while I have your attention, are there any CITO events planned in association with Coastal Cleanup Day on Sept 19, 2009?

 

Cheers.

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While I am not averse to picking up most things CITO, I really hate cigarette butts. They are nasty, vile, difficult and time consuming to pick up, and when there are lots of them concentrated, looks just terrible. :) If you're a smoker, caching or not, do what somebody mentioned above, take out the butts with you. A pristine forest shouldn't look like an ash tray!

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I'm a little late to this thread because I generally don't read this section.

 

I think there's a difference between a CITO and picking up trash in the woods. At the CITOS we went to, we cleaned up a river on both land and in the water and got a ton of garbage, big stuff, small stuff, you name it.

 

At another one, we deep cleaned the woods of things like old lawn mowers, tires, car parts and more. It was along a trail system that had been abandoned for years but is being cleaned up and turned into a trail to connect with a greenway.

 

The people that did that did it felt like they were making a big impact and doing something so that others can enjoy the area for years to come. A lot of those who attended will pick up trash while out caching. It's just frustrating when you find a spot in the woods with a fire pit and beer cans all over and know it's a party spot. So you clean up the cleans and come back a couple weeks later, and the area is trashed again. It's like the partiers know that if they leave the cans, someone will keep picking them up.

Edited by Skippermark
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Like Skipper... we're a lil late in getting in on this one. Quite frankly, I have too many probs trying to view these forums to make it worth the bother anymore. :laughing:

 

But, I was asked to hop in here because...

 

We recently wrote a bit on our blog regarding geocaching etiquette revisited, that touches upon CITO... or the lack thereof. We, too, have been disgusted by sight of all the trash near cache sites as of late... especially when the majority of them are plastic water bottles, which could cheaply & easily be avoided in the first place... or beer cans! I am running out of nice ways to ask that this not happen. :laughing:

 

Anyway..... it was suggested, by one of our group's president, that I post it here in this thread. So... *bites tongue 'til it bleeds* ...until we can fight for the right to incorporate these guidelines into said group in some form & reinforce them on a regular basis.....

 

Here's the long-winded (but hopefully helpful in some other form) FB note/blog post...

 

Geocaching Etiquette Revisited

 

PLEASE, PLEASE.... All geocachers, around the world.... take the time to read it?!

And, yes... we are BEGGING you non-CITOers & pseudo CITOers (preach it but don't practice it)... if you can't stop to pick up the piece of trash you step over on the way to 'the goodies'... DON'T make it worse by adding your own! Buy a water bladder/pack/bottle/canteen... whatever... refill it & use it! It not only saves our planet, it saves money! Heaven forbid, it may take a bit more of your energy, though. :laughing:

 

MUCH Geo<3 & respect to all those that already practice! Keep spreading the word! :blink:

<endrant>

 

~M & P~

Edited by rainwolf420
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CITO Events are alive and well in Anchorage, Alaska. One can view photos of this summer's three CITO events in the GeocacheAlaska! photo gallery. Here's a photo of our latest weeknight effort:

e98decd1-fb43-4587-9bd4-00b24fcb7ab3.jpg

 

Anchorage Parks and Recreation has recognized geocachers as one of the few park users that actively clean up the parks.

 

Geocachers actively work with the city to report homeless camps in the parks so the proper authorities are notified to remove said camps.

 

Promotion of CITO is written specifically into the GeocacheAlaska! by-laws.

 

On a personal level, I almost always leave a cache site with at least a couple of cans or water bottles...sometimes more.

Edited by Ladybug Kids
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