signing log

June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

4k · June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

Yes. That is an integral part of caching. I have a cache where the cache page tells you exactly where it is. This past weekend a cacher logged a find although they said they couldn't reach it. (You need to add water to make the cache float to the top.) After talking with another cacher I deleted their log.

Imagine a cache 40' up a tree. If you could log the find without signing the log, then it could be a 1/1 cache.

1.1k · June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

It's up to the cache owner. It's quite traditional to require that the log book be signed. If you explained the circumstances, I'd be surprised if the cache owner didn't let you make an exception to the rule.

Could you use a grabber thing to help grab them when they are up high?

June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

Yes, I have many challenging caches and many of them are visible/touchable from a safe distance... if you dont sign the log you dont deserve that smiley...

7.7k · June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.
I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

Depends on the cache owner, and depends on the type of cache. I won't claim a find, but I'm of average height that it is not usually a problem for me.

Perhaps one of these might help :

http://www.amazon.com/PikStik-Aluminum-Rea.../dp/B000H8VPNG/

You can use it for CITO as well.

Edit : basically same information as Arrow42 :rolleyes:

Edited June 4, 2009 by Chrysalides

June 4, 2009

No signee, no findee.

June 4, 2009

yep rules is rules.

6.5k · June 4, 2009

Even if the CO says it's OK you still have to look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning. I saw one today that had slid out of reach in its hiding spot. I couldn't reach it with my grabby thing, and chose to move on.

I won't be claiming a find on it until I can return and sign the log.

38.2k · June 4, 2009

Retrieving the cache is all part of the challenge. I recall walking through a park in mid winter with a lawn chair so I could retrieve a cache. I had it in my fingers but couldn't extract it because I wasn't quite tall enough.

19k · June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

You have to consider it as part of the challenge, I'm afraid. Physical limitations are a part of the game. Some folks just are not up to a steep climb. Others may be too heavy to slither down into a small cave. Overcoming your personal limits should be part of the fun for you. Find ways to get those suckers... don't let them get you!!!

June 4, 2009

yep rules is rules.

There are no rules here. Only guidelines.

1.1k · June 4, 2009

yep rules is rules.

There are no rules here. Only guidelines.

If the CO deletes your logs... dems are rules. :rolleyes:

June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

It's up to the cache owner. It's quite traditional to require that the log book be signed. If you explained the circumstances, I'd be surprised if the cache owner didn't let you make an exception to the rule.

Could you use a grabber thing to help grab them when they are up high?

Grabber thing would not work in this cache.

4k · June 4, 2009

yep rules is rules.

There are no rules here. Only guidelines.

Yeah. Play however you want. Don't be upset if your log is deleted though.

Soon I will put out a micro called: "Ad Nauseam"

Yep, log it as many times as you wish. (On this one anyway.) It's all the same to me.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Knight2000

2k · June 4, 2009

yep rules is rules.

There are no rules here. Only guidelines.

Yeah. Play however you want. Don't be upset if your log is deleted though.

Soon I will put out a micro called: "Ad Nauseam"

Yep, log it as many times as you wish. (On this one anyway.) It's all the same to me.

It'll be interesting when someone logs enough finds on it to put them in the head of the numbers count. Cacher Bob has 192,943 finds on three caches. :rolleyes:

Gonna be fun getting all those email notices.

(if there is a cacher bob I'm sorry, nothing personal)

7.7k · June 4, 2009

I recall walking through a park in mid winter with a lawn chair so I could retrieve a cache.

I guess that passes for normal behavior in New Jersey? :rolleyes:

4.8k · June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

Every single cache is up to the owner as to their individual rules.

If you can't reach the cache because you are vertically challenged (or anyone in a wheelchair, whatever) and the CO says it doesn't count, then they are just being themselves (add your own interpretation).

Their is no "winner" in geocaching other than the one who judges themselves. The final number doesn't count to anyone but the one who owns the number. If you feel you found the cache, count it in your head.

June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

Every single cache is up to the owner as to their individual rules.

If you can't reach the cache because you are vertically challenged (or anyone in a wheelchair, whatever) and the CO says it doesn't count, then they are just being themselves (add your own interpretation).

Their is no "winner" in geocaching other than the one who judges themselves. The final number doesn't count to anyone but the one who owns the number. If you feel you found the cache, count it in your head.

OR count em in GSAK.

18.9k · June 4, 2009

I'll refer you to step 7 on this page: http://www.geocaching.com/about/

The first full sentence under this link: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines...gingofallcaches

See number 2 under "What are the rules in Geocaching?" on this page: http://www.geocaching.com/FAQ/

I think that is suffcient to answer your question.

5.6k · June 4, 2009

I recall walking through a park in mid winter with a lawn chair so I could retrieve a cache.

I guess that passes for normal behavior in New Jersey?

Normal?!? Have you seen/heard about the cacher greeting they use in NJ?

4k · June 4, 2009

I'll refer you to step 7 on this page: http://www.geocaching.com/about/

The first full sentence under this link: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines...gingofallcaches

See number 2 under "What are the rules in Geocaching?" on this page: http://www.geocaching.com/FAQ/

I think that is suffcient to answer your question.

Exactly.

June 4, 2009

I've wondered (partly in jest) if this means that the difficulty/terrain ratings should be height dependent. I mean there are some caches where a 6 foot tall person can just reach up and grab the cache but someone who is 5 foot 6 will require special equipment.

4.8k · June 4, 2009

I've wondered (partly in jest) if this means that the difficulty/terrain ratings should be height dependent. I mean there are some caches where a 6 foot tall person can just reach up and grab the cache but someone who is 5 foot 6 will require special equipment.

I read somewhere that a level 1 terrain meant that someone in a wheelchair could get it. I suppose there should be a FAQ on setting terrain levels.

7.7k · June 4, 2009

I read somewhere that a level 1 terrain meant that someone in a wheelchair could get it. I suppose there should be a FAQ on setting terrain levels.

How about an on-line questionnaire?

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

June 4, 2009

I read somewhere that a level 1 terrain meant that someone in a wheelchair could get it. I suppose there should be a FAQ on setting terrain levels.

How about an on-line questionnaire?

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

that was pretty much a great response to a topic I just posted!

Thanks for reading my mind!

How did you find out about that link?

7.7k · June 4, 2009

How did you find out about that link?

Can't remember exactly - I was reading up, looking for tips on how to place my first cache when I stumbled across it.

There's a bunch more at the bottom of this Cachopedia page:

http://www.cacheopedia.com/wiki/Geocaching.com_Rating_System

4.8k · June 4, 2009

How about an on-line questionnaire?

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

Thats good but it doesn't account for height of the searcher. Are we supposed to believe that everyone is over a certain height? Perhaps a lawsuit from midgets is on the way.

Just kidding folks.

4k · June 4, 2009

The clayjar link is on the cache submission page by the ratings.

As with people, cachers in wheelchairs are all different. Some might be able to barely reach a guardrail. Others might be able to climb a tree or crawl 25' feet to the cache.

7.7k · June 4, 2009

Thats good but it doesn't account for height of the searcher. Are we supposed to believe that everyone is over a certain height? Perhaps a lawsuit from midgets is on the way.

Users should be required to enter their weight, height, eyesight, dexterity, etc. into their personal information, so that every cache will show their adjusted terrain and difficulty for them. Then I won't have this embarassing string of DNFs on 1/1 caches...

4.8k · June 4, 2009

Users should be required to enter their weight, height, eyesight, dexterity, etc. into their personal information, so that every cache will show their adjusted terrain and difficulty for them. Then I won't have this embarassing string of DNFs on 1/1 caches...

I see. Some people only hide caches for their own personal satisfaction.

Not you, of course.... just some people.

Personally, if I rate mine a 1/1, anyone should be able to find, and reach it, if they show up near the choords.

7.7k · June 4, 2009

Personally, if I rate mine a 1/1, anyone should be able to find, and reach it, if they show up near the choords.

I think part of the problem is that as I approach a 1/1 cache, my mind just panics and shuts down. Some are really embarrassingly simple once I go back a second time and see it. Then there's some where I think the cache owner just can't be bothered to fill out the terrain / difficulty, but I make it a point not to complain about ratings. Besides, someone else will usually do it if I wait long enough

6.7k · June 4, 2009

"I saw a black film can in the fork of a tree but could not reach it" would be sufficient proof of find for most cache owners to accept your log... if in fact the black film can in the fork of a tree is the cache!

June 4, 2009

Literally, if you see a cache, that's a find, but a Geocache find requires you to sign the log. But overall, it's up to how much evidence you give, and the owner's opinion.

Haku340

6.7k · June 4, 2009

"I saw a black film can in the fork of a tree but could not reach it" would be sufficient proof of find for most cache owners to accept your log... if in fact the black film can in the fork of a tree is the cache!

It may not be enough if reaching the film can is part of the challenge. I have a cache that is twelve feet up a tree. Telling me that you saw it from the ground is not enough to log the find.

6.7k · June 4, 2009

"I saw a black film can in the fork of a tree but could not reach it" would be sufficient proof of find for most cache owners to accept your log... if in fact the black film can in the fork of a tree is the cache!

It may not be enough if reaching the film can is part of the challenge. I have a cache that is twelve feet up a tree. Telling me that you saw it from the ground is not enough to log the find.

Yes, there are exceptions to everything... but the key to my statement is the phrase "most cache owners", and I believe that to be true.

6.7k · June 4, 2009

"I saw a black film can in the fork of a tree but could not reach it" would be sufficient proof of find for most cache owners to accept your log... if in fact the black film can in the fork of a tree is the cache!

It may not be enough if reaching the film can is part of the challenge. I have a cache that is twelve feet up a tree. Telling me that you saw it from the ground is not enough to log the find.

Yes, there are exceptions to everything... but the key to my statement is the phrase "most cache owners", and I believe that to be true.

I can't speak for most cachers. I can only say that for me such a decision is going to be made on a case by case basis. If you can give me a compelling reason that you can't sign the log and reasonably prove you were at the cache site I may let it slide. "I couldn't reach the cache." may or may not be an acceptable reason. My example was meant to highlight that point.

38.2k · June 4, 2009

"I saw a black film can in the fork of a tree but could not reach it" would be sufficient proof of find for most cache owners to accept your log... if in fact the black film can in the fork of a tree is the cache!

Not for my caches. No signee, no logee unless there is some sort of factor out of the finder's control (log was too wet to sign, container was frozen shut). But seeing the cache and not bothering to retrieve it, nope.

Edited June 4, 2009 by briansnat

June 4, 2009

reading this topic made me giggle a bit as my step father is a disabled vet and cant climb trees for high up caches. i could just imagine him just cutting the tree down with his chainsaw and logging it as needing maintenance.

June 4, 2009

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.

I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

If you are a cheater, then count it.

the game says you should sign the log.

Its not a law, but come on!

I am vertically challenged too, If I can't reach it or am not with some one taller I don't log it

20.7k · June 4, 2009

The first full sentence under this link: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines...gingofallcaches

It has been explained by TPTB that this part of the guidelines should not be construed to require that all caches be signed. The point of the guideline is that an online log that is made after signing the physical should not be deleted. It does not speak to whether online logs must be deleted if the physical log was not signed.

I am vertically challenged and sometimes I am unable to retrieve the cache. I will have touched it however.
I did this today and logged that I had touched it but couldn't retrieve it. I got an email from the owner saying I couldn't count it unless I signed. Is this correct?

If you are a cheater, then count it.
the game says you should sign the log.

Its not a law, but come on!I am vertically challenged too, If I can't reach it or am not with some one taller I don't log it

I think that you are taking the OP's issue out of context and doing her and the community a disservice by suggesting that she is a cheater. There is no need for this kind of comment in response to an honest question.

The bottom line is that the online log is basically an agreement between the cacher owner and cache seeker. If the cache owner agrees that the individual 'found' the cache, it can be logged online as a 'find'. If the individual did not sign the physical log, he/she should ask the cache owner if it's OK to count it as a 'find'. This is true no matter what the reason that the individual has for not signing the log, in my opinion.

Edited June 4, 2009 by sbell111

June 4, 2009

In my opinion, signing the log takes precidance over signing the digital log. For me I my digital log is a reflection of the caches I have visited and signed. (Barring missing Logbooks, Wet or damaged as well)

This is how I cache.

June 4, 2009

I don't log as a find unless I retrieve and sign the log. It's part of the challenge.

3.1k · June 4, 2009

I had a cache that was easily within arm's reach for me. One day I got a log detailing a short person's difficult time in finding equipment and hauling it to the location so he could reach it. Reaching the container was not meant to be part of the challenge. In fact, I felt bad that I hadn't considered that it would be hard for some people to reach. Kudos to this finder for going the extra mile -- probably literally -- to get it, but I would have allowed him to log without doing so.

Now, this cache was on top of an eight-story building and would have been visible from certain spots on the ground. I would have rejected a log that said they spotted it from the ground but did not go up and sign it.

18.9k · June 4, 2009

The first full sentence under this link: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines...gingofallcaches
It has been explained by TPTB that this part of the guidelines should not be construed to require that all caches be signed. The point of the guideline is that an online log that is made after signing the physical should not be deleted. It does not speak to whether online logs must be deleted if the physical log was not signed.....

Ok - explain away the other 2 links I provided.

You really can't. Taken together - all 3 links makes it is clear that the intent is for cachers to retrieve the cache and sign the log.

Of course your "find" log will stand if the owner fails to delete it. But I would argue that the claim of a "find" is wrong and that the cache owner is neglectful in fulfilling the guideline requirment that bogus logs be deleted. However, as many have stated in this thread - failure to delete the bogus log will of course allow it to add to anybody's find count. If you want to argue that is the negotiated outcome of player/owner interaction - thats fine but the site makes quite clear that cachers are expected to sign the log. Hard to argue against that fact.

June 4, 2009

I had a cache that was easily within arm's reach for me. One day I got a log detailing a short person's difficult time in finding equipment and hauling it to the location so he could reach it. Reaching the container was not meant to be part of the challenge. In fact, I felt bad that I hadn't considered that it would be hard for some people to reach. Kudos to this finder for going the extra mile -- probably literally -- to get it, but I would have allowed him to log without doing so.

Now, this cache was on top of an eight-story building and would have been visible from certain spots on the ground. I would have rejected a log that said they spotted it from the ground but did not go up and sign it.

I agree with you, as with most in this thread it has generally been agreed upon that it should be handled on a case by case basis.

Personally one of my caches, a micro. Was found and the log was basicly was "We found it but left the pen in the car" The parking area is about a 3 minute walk from where the cache was. I just let it slide. But if the problem was common I would probably take a different stance.

8k · June 4, 2009

You have run into what I refer to as a puritan cache owner. Most cache owners are quite lenient about signing the physical log if you have an excuse. Forgot a pen? Log too wet? Couldn't reach the cache because you are vertically challenged? Most people realize this is a game and the point is to have fun. Signing the log is a part of the game because it is the proof you found the cache. Otherwise you might just sit at home and post 'Found It' logs for caches you have never been to. Cache owners are instructed to delete such bogus logs. Because cache owners have the ability to delete logs, they can make up any silly rule they want (at least they used to be able to). A recent change was made to keep cacher owners from deleting logs for silly reasons. An unfortunate side effect to this new guideline was that it contained this sentence "Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed." Some puritans believe this now requires them to delete found it logs if the physical log is not signed (or at least that this is a valid reason for deleting logs). Right now there is not much you can do about a puritan cache owner who deleted your log. I would post a note explaining that you found the cache and the reason you couldn't sign the log and move on.

20.7k · June 4, 2009

The first full sentence under this link: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines...gingofallcaches
It has been explained by TPTB that this part of the guidelines should not be construed to require that all caches be signed. The point of the guideline is that an online log that is made after signing the physical should not be deleted. It does not speak to whether online logs must be deleted if the physical log was not signed.....
Ok - explain away the other 2 links I provided.

You really can't. Taken together - all 3 links makes it is clear that the intent is for cachers to retrieve the cache and sign the log.

That's just the thing. You can't take them together. They are apples and oranges. Further, you can't call those other two items 'rules' if all of the steps are not required. I don't see people calling those who choose not to log online 'cheaters'.

Of course your "find" log will stand if the owner fails to delete it. But I would argue that the claim of a "find" is wrong and that the cache owner is neglectful in fulfilling the guideline requirment that bogus logs be deleted. However, as many have stated in this thread - failure to delete the bogus log will of course allow it to add to anybody's find count. If you want to argue that is the negotiated outcome of player/owner interaction - thats fine but the site makes quite clear that cachers are expected to sign the log. Hard to argue against that fact.

Please take a glance at the part that I bolded. Your entire argument appears to be based on this statement. Unfortunately, TPTB have stated that this isn't what that guideline requirement means.

If I state that I was unable to sign the log for whatever reason and the cache owner agrees that I still found the cache, my log isn't bogus and the cache owner isn't negligent.

4k · June 4, 2009

I agree with StarBrand. It's pretty clear here:

What are the rules in Geocaching?
1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

What about that cache that was placed up really high with a remote control helicopter?

What about the cache placed at the top of a utility pole?

What about my cache at the bottom of a PVC tube which you need water to retrieve?

What about a cache where you need to climb a tree?

All in plain sight.

If finding it is the only part to worry about then we should stop hiding caches that are hard to get.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Knight2000

3.1k · June 4, 2009

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

If that's a hard and fast rule, then micro owners need to get busy deleting logs. How many so-called-"finders" have just signed their name rather than writing about their find?

Edited June 4, 2009 by Dinoprophet

18.9k · June 4, 2009

.... I don't see people calling those who choose not to log online 'cheaters'......

I didn't call anybody a cheater.

I was simply explaining that the web site makes it quite clear that the expectation (as demonstrated by the 3 links provided) is that cachers will sign the onsite log before logging (claiming) a "find" online. Again that is a simple fact. If you have any links to knowledgebase articles, instructions, guidelines, getting started pages or whatever on the website that support your "anything goes - don't need to sign the log theory as long as both parties agree" - then please provide them here as I am unaware of such clauses.

signing log

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment