herrozerro

Still dont get it. Late != Never Received. you still received your tools.

Here is a question: Does anyone use the Member only cache option at all?

I noticed you had mentioned that you had not aquired the offered services (Sorry Gotton was a mistake) more then once. Edit (I guess i read your same post twice because i was reading in two different directions on two different days.) I do not see why your PQs being late adds to the fact that you need to maintain an offline database. Dont get me wrong i use my PQs to keep up my own GSAK database so i know what its like to go to update and nothing is there. I just dont see how them being later then you want warrents a "I NEED AN OFFLINE DATABASE!!!"

I have gotton all of my PQs each day you said they had not come in. do you mean to say you havent gotton them yet that day? just because you might not get them first thing in the morning?I got mine just fine, also. I keep reading about PQ problems, but I haven't actually had a problem getting any of my PQs. Strange. I have gotton them early in the morning, late in the afternoon and around midnight. THere is nothing in the PQs that say "You will get them at XX time"

I have gotton all of my PQs each day you said they had not come in. do you mean to say you havent gotton them yet that day? just because you might not get them first thing in the morning?

bittsen Someone took the TBs out of the Cache... maybe thats all we need to know.

It still can be that, Frank. Go hide a cache and post the coordinates in Google Groups or some Yahoo group or a Facebook page. You have every right to do that. Or you could use Terracaching or Navicaching (although you'll still be dealing with organizations) I agree, The issue is that without a corperation or at least some kind of organization you wouldnt have the services we have now. you wouldnt have the capibility to keep up with the current demand of the monitary or time needs for keeping up such a large site.

You're assuming that feedback is the sole driving force for new cache placement. No. It's a part. But if someone puts out a cache (especially a someone new to the hobby) and only got 1 or 2 found logs, do you honestly think they'd go through the trouble of putting out more? Now it's not that bad now but when the non-loggers try to convert others to their philosophy then that's a bad thing. I'm just on the other side of the fence trying to point out why logging online is important. As a cache owner myself i go out to the physical cache and check logs as well. maybe one should do that as well. This game isnt just digital.

But who is selfish? The person Caching their own way or the owner who cant stand it when people dont cache the way they want? I dont understand the reasoning that people who dont log online are selfish.

QFT

well it sounds like either the Cache was on private property and shouldnt have existed or it was a zealous Land owner whom overstepped his bounds. I would say though that when caught its best to actually explain what you are doing.

I'm not reading them all, only if I'm curious as in why this one is rated so low or this one is rated so high. I guess I still dont get it, you want to have a flag so you can go into indepth research into a cache to see if you want to look for it or not. when you could simply just do the research yourself in the first place? I also dont see you arguement about going out of town and needing to find out about an area, a cache along a route PQ and a simple PQ for your destination. I mean it really doesnt get simpler then that. In all honesty I think its just that I dont understand your need to find the "cream" of the caches. Personally I just love caching, in my relitivly small experiance compaired to most here, I have yet yo come across a "bad" cache. For me its just load up the GPS and go looking for unfound caches wherever I go. Im not picky. So in conclusion, I dont have anything against the particular rating system, I just disagree with the seemingly Elitist attitude of "I only want to find 'Good' caches".

That probably was not me... It had crossed my mind but I didnt do it! I will be soon realeasing my Book "If I did do it" By herrozerro.

Ahhh! thread Necromancy! Hit it with a holy bat! Bad Zombie THread!

I have been guilty of this, but I believe justly so. A cache recently nearby was posted and the hint was that it was in a parking lot along the highway and they had gotton permission from the buisniss. The problem though was that the longitude was off by abot 700 feet. I posted encrypted and included the coordinates.

im Dissipointed that They received no response from Groundspeak. Or maybe they didnt email the right place?

I have not said a rating system could not work, I have said that a Simplistic system wont work. I also disagree with your "The cream will rise to the top". Because once again, whos cream are we talking about? I said it before and I will say it again, If someone is advanced enough in this game to know exactly what they want why should they rely on the opinions of others to sway what they do?

Ah, so so its come to personal blows now? In all honesty you probably smelled one of the paper mills or the Kingsford foundry. But no matter. I can just show my support by not using your system, or the other one by not using it as well. I cant help it that the truth is that a ratings system cant truely give any kind of true bearing of what a cache is. Most people cant even agree on what caching is, A sport? A hobby? A compitition? And even you yourself agreed that your system cannot account for most of the factors of a cache. How would a rating system account for bad weather? Caching during the winter? A muggled cache? Or is a rating system purely "Where the cache takes you" and not about the "cache" itself? the main arguement I will support is that a simple 1-5 system wont cut it at all. Should i rate low because it was cludy and didnt get to see the mountain? or because i know it was there should i rate it high? I dont appreciate your willingness to get down to the level of insulting someone's geographic location and I wont stoop to your level and trade you back a "Well people from X are dumber then Y".

in reading the entire quote. I have found two parts, the first one is what i was looking for but you have a small disclaimer which is what i missed. I conceed the point.

out of my 4 planted caches 4/4 of them are micros. It was not always that way, one was a small lock and lock that was muggled and a mcnuggits container filled with rocks was in its place and another was lost when the stream was low in the summer. For myself, the choice to go micro with my caches was out of need to have unmuggled caches. I do have plans and containers for smalls and a regular but they will require more planning.

I'm not sure that this is evidence of anything. Imagine this scenario: A difficult puzzle cache is placed. Many people really want to solve teh puzzle and find the cache. No one utilizes the FTF network or in any other way obtains help from anyone else. It could take the first person a week to crack the puzzle and find the cache. It maight take five other people between one and two weeks to crack it. Most people could crack the puzzle in two to four weeks. This would result in the cache going unfound for one week. By the end of that week, five other people find the cache. In the next two weeks, lots of people find the cache. No one 'cheated'. This is the natural way that difficult caches are logged. No, you don't understand. The limb you're going out on is way too thin. When it isn't MY puzzle, I particpate. I KNOW it happens. So stop trying to contradict my statement when YOU don't know. You are goiung out on a pretty thin limb as well for taking your experiance and applying it to all suddenly found Geocache puzzles.

You can sit here and bait people with a straight face and then you have the audacity to pretend to be insulted? You need to get a grip or leave the thread. Hey, when all of us "naysayers" have already been insulted by having our opinions based on nothing but "feelings" as the OP puts it, it doenst sound too unreasonable to pull out a loaded logical question. If anything the people pushing for a rating system are the ones using their feelings.

I'm not sure that this is evidence of anything. Imagine this scenario: A difficult puzzle cache is placed. Many people really want to solve teh puzzle and find the cache. No one utilizes the FTF network or in any other way obtains help from anyone else. It could take the first person a week to crack the puzzle and find the cache. It maight take five other people between one and two weeks to crack it. Most people could crack the puzzle in two to four weeks. This would result in the cache going unfound for one week. By the end of that week, five other people find the cache. In the next two weeks, lots of people find the cache. No one 'cheated'. This is the natural way that difficult caches are logged. That does bring up a good point. All that website seems to have done is make everyone paranoid now that all their puzzle solves are now cheats. In all honesty how are you gonig to to find out a cheat? Are they going to log "Hey i cheated, but I did find the cache!" No. In fact even if someone did cheat it wouldnt "Subtract from your experiance" because how are you going to know? (Forgive me if some of you geocachers suddenly feel the cries of a thousand cachers that were suddenly silanced everytime someone cheats.)

Yeah, it was a little loaded... I was hoping for a different answer. OK, so here's another one: How does your website account for the passage of time and the changing conditions time can bring? For that one, I am just going to give you the HUGE read my above post, for an explaination i think he was tryin gto get at. A cache changes drastically over the course of a year. how do you rank a cache fairly with a moving goalpost of criteria.

Personally I can see another issue. Lets take an imaginary cache and look at its imaginary ranks. Walk in the park: 1.5/2 ***** Great hide! I love the placement! ** Eh, Its alright. I dont like ones I have to crawl for. ***Decent placement, though it doesnt really bring you anywhere special. * It was raining.... * It was Buried under snow! Bad placement! **** I love hiking through the park in the winter! Great Cache! ** Quick find, nothing special ***** I never knew this park was here! Great hide! and so on and so forth. With my little fictional cache it was rated all across the board because each person used a different scale of measuring their enjoyment. MAybe someone whom has hiked mountains disliked this easy cache. Or someone went caching and it started to rain on them. Geocaching isnt a static sport. THere are alot of factors that make each visit to a single spot either incredibally memorable or dumptastically horrid. I might be more apt to remember a skirt lifter as a great cache because it was my 50th and in other times is just a quick unmemoriable stepping stone. This isnt like rating a GPSr where everyone is getting the same object and getting marginal differences in results, its a dynamic sport where the time of day, temp, wind and percipitation can make or break a day. Combined with the cachers overall perferance to what is good and add in the previous caches in the day and you get a HUGE divide. Even people with identical likes and dislikes could give vastly different rankings on a single trip. And even a same person could visit a cache more then once and give different ranks. Maybe one day it was cloudy and you couldnt see any bit of the majestic view. Do you rank it high or low? You know it must be an awesome place... but you didnt get to see it. in conclusion, I guess my thought is that personally i dont see a need for a "lets find out what the really good caches are!" Because even a skirt lifter in walmart can tell a story. I dont think someone who is advanced enough in this sport to know what they like and dont like should be asking other people to rate and pick out his/her next cache. Someone who obviously is set in their ways should know exactly what they like. Personally I think the OP wants to have a system so that caches he/she doesnt like can be ranked low and be pressured to be removed or visited less. As I said before, if you know what you like you shouldnt need other people to tell you what to look for. Edit* To prove my point of varying degrees of enjoyment the OP states in his first post that the journy is what makes him happy. So what if you come across a cache set on the side of a mountain in the perfect vally with a gorgous view.... and the container is destroyed. Do you rank the cache or the view?