First-to-Find Mavens

[+ZorkFox]

I'm still new to this game with only 55 finds, and just starting to figure out which caches interest me, and which will simply be something to find, and which will be downright boring. I tend to like easy puzzles or caches that will take me on an interesting hike or to an interesting place. I already dislike the caches hidden under loose lamppost bases.

 

One multi-part cache in my area involves taking 30 photographs of yourself doing various stunts and caching activities. One of these activities is a picture of, "The true log book off an FTF you have logged."

 

A group of people in my area have some kind of addiction to being the first-to-find and by some means unknown to me they find out about caches before they are published, sometimes days before. So even though I get e-mailed when a cache is published in my area, the chances that someone else has already been to it are very high. In some cases, there are even logged finds on the Web site several days before the cache's publishing date.

 

When I met this group at an event cache a few months ago I only had three finds. One of the attendees passed out a description and coordinates to a cache that hadn't yet been published as some kind of beta testing thing. I went along and I put my name in the logbook, but because it was a test, I didn't log it as a find. (I didn't really see what needed to be tested: the coordinates were close and the cache description told us exactly where to go.) The others said they weren't going to log it, either, and yet one of them ganked the first-to-find prize from the container.

 

First, how are they coming by this knowledge? (I already had to ask someone how to get the e-mail notices.) Second, are they "cheating"? Maybe I'm just too new to know this is how things work, but my Muggle sense of fair play is injured. Do I need to alter my thinking, or am I caching in the midst of some kind of wide-area bandit lair?

[+Sol seaker]

THis topic is currently being discussed in two other threads in this forum.

It seems to be a topic that gets us all hot under the collar one way or the other.

 

The highlights from those two threads (one which I banned myself from) I think are:

 

1. There is a good reason why Groundspeak chooses not to recognise FTF's (because they cause so much controversy and angst).

 

2. someone suggested FTFP (after published) as a title for those who find it after published.

 

3. another said that the main problem with FTF's is that they are causing so much upheaval, unrest and upset people in the forums.

 

I'd really hate to see another thread go the way of these others, so it might be best to look up the other threads before starting all over again here with such a "delicate" subject.

[+eagsc7]

I'm still new to this game with only 55 finds, and just starting to figure out which caches interest me, and which will simply be something to find, and which will be downright boring. I tend to like easy puzzles or caches that will take me on an interesting hike or to an interesting place. I already dislike the caches hidden under loose lamppost bases.

Welcome to the community! Drat about not liking the LPCs already. There are ALOT of puzzles to find out there... Good Luck!

One multi-part cache in my area involves taking 30 photographs of yourself doing various stunts and caching activities. One of these activities is a picture of, "The true log book off an FTF you have logged."

Sounds like you have found an ALR. I would either choose To or not to do the challenge. Either way, remember that there is an Ignore feature on the site that can be used.

A group of people in my area have some kind of addiction to being the first-to-find and by some means unknown to me they find out about caches before they are published, sometimes days before. So even though I get e-mailed when a cache is published in my area, the chances that someone else has already been to it are very high. In some cases, there are even logged finds on the Web site several days before the cache's publishing date.

What I will say about true FTF Hounds(as we call them on this side of the state), is that you are already Behind, IF you recieve the email on your computer. You NEED to get it on your Phone, have unlimited Data, and Be able to 'Cache on a whimb' which means Always having the GPS On and in the car ready to go. If its not in the car, its plugged into the computer ready to recieve the "Send to GPS" Data.

When I met this group at an event cache a few months ago I only had three finds. One of the attendees passed out a description and coordinates to a cache that hadn't yet been published as some kind of beta testing thing. I went along and I put my name in the logbook, but because it was a test, I didn't log it as a find. (I didn't really see what needed to be tested: the coordinates were close and the cache description told us exactly where to go.) The others said they weren't going to log it, either, and yet one of them ganked the first-to-find prize from the container.

You Should log it as a find IF it is listed as a cache on the site. The FTF should go to the First person that found it After Publishing, and did NOT attempt it previously.

First, how are they coming by this knowledge? (I already had to ask someone how to get the e-mail notices.) Second, are they "cheating"? Maybe I'm just too new to know this is how things work, but my Muggle sense of fair play is injured. Do I need to alter my thinking, or am I caching in the midst of some kind of wide-area bandit lair?

Things to remember when comparing FTF hunts vs. the Regular find(or finder):

1)Most rules are Out the window

2)Get out of the way if you don't care for the FTF

3)Always be ready to go

4)Get there, Find it, and leave...

5)First person to actually Touch the container(and know it) gets the FTF

6)The Speeding ticket is a warning. You should have gone the Other way...

7)Have Fun, and remember its only a game.. sport.. or Lifestyle whichever you prefer

8)Pick and Choose.

9)After awhile, you will get an inherent ability to judge exactly how far you can go in a certain direction. I.E. I know I can go 5 Miles any direction, but late at night, I can go 15 Miles East.

10)IF a group pop up(same direction, with roughly the same distance), the chances of actually getting a FTF does go up.

The Steaks

[+StarBrand]

There is a known "gap" in programming that allows unpublished caches with a TB drop note to be seen before publishing - sometimes. I have read about a few other techniques that sounded pretty bogus to me but a few have claimed inside knowledge.

 

FTF is the first person to get to the coordinates and locate the cache, sign the log and replace it. However it is that they came upon either the cache or the coordinates. Thats it.

 

In many ways, I do not "get" the FTF craze that goes on in some areas and the overt importance being placed on it. FTF and 50 cents buys you soda at the local machine and thats about it.

[+StaticTank]

One multi-part cache in my area involves taking 30 photographs of yourself doing various stunts and caching activities. One of these activities is a picture of, "The true log book off an FTF you have logged."

 

This is sounds like an ALR (Additional Logging Requirements) they are not allowed any longer.

 

StaticTank

[+Sioneva]

One multi-part cache in my area involves taking 30 photographs of yourself doing various stunts and caching activities. One of these activities is a picture of, "The true log book off an FTF you have logged."

 

This is sounds like an ALR (Additional Logging Requirements) they are not allowed any longer.

 

StaticTank

 

Maybe the OP wants to do it the way the cache owner set it up. Maybe not. But that's besides the point, judging from what questions were asked by the OP in the first post. Don't suck this into another ALR-debating thread, when it's clearly a FTF-debating thread.

[+Psycada]

FTF seems marginally more important than being First to Post on a blog. For competitive reasons alone, people feel the need to be first.

I personally am not about the competition, I'm about the hunt and getting outside with my wife and daughter, so I don't worry about being FTF. Best advise I have seen on this site is to do it your way and have fun while doing it. TO EACH THEIR OWN.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Psycada

[+NanCycle]

FTF and 50 cents buys you soda at the local machine and thats about it.

 

Where's the machine that you can get a soda for 50 cents?

[+ZorkFox]

Maybe the OP wants to do it the way the cache owner set it up. Maybe not. But that's besides the point, judging from what questions were asked by the OP in the first post. Don't suck this into another ALR-debating thread, when it's clearly a FTF-debating thread.

I wouldn't even say I wanted to debate something, I just wanted to know what, if anything, was going on and what, if anything, I should do about it. The answer to both questions would seem to be (essentially) nothing. I guess if I want a first-to-find log for the cache requirements I'll have to ask the group to let me have one.

[JustWannaCache]

Maybe the OP wants to do it the way the cache owner set it up. Maybe not. But that's besides the point, judging from what questions were asked by the OP in the first post. Don't suck this into another ALR-debating thread, when it's clearly a FTF-debating thread.

I wouldn't even say I wanted to debate something, I just wanted to know what, if anything, was going on and what, if anything, I should do about it. The answer to both questions would seem to be (essentially) nothing. I guess if I want a first-to-find log for the cache requirements I'll have to ask the group to let me have one.

Oh Yeah, that should go over real well. SOmething like this:

 

YOU: Hey guys, will you sit at home on your a**e$ after the next cache is published until you see I have logged the FTF?

 

THEM: Laughing hysterically.

[+The Blorenges]

Maybe the OP wants to do it the way the cache owner set it up. Maybe not. But that's besides the point, judging from what questions were asked by the OP in the first post. Don't suck this into another ALR-debating thread, when it's clearly a FTF-debating thread.

I wouldn't even say I wanted to debate something, I just wanted to know what, if anything, was going on and what, if anything, I should do about it. The answer to both questions would seem to be (essentially) nothing. I guess if I want a first-to-find log for the cache requirements I'll have to ask the group to let me have one.

Oh Yeah, that should go over real well. SOmething like this:

 

YOU: Hey guys, will you sit at home on your a**e$ after the next cache is published until you see I have logged the FTF?

 

THEM: Laughing hysterically.

 

I think the OP's query was more about the fact that the FTFs were claimed before the caches had even been published...

 

...A group of people in my area have some kind of addiction to being the first-to-find and by some means unknown to me they find out about caches before they are published, sometimes days before. So even though I get e-mailed when a cache is published in my area, the chances that someone else has already been to it are very high. In some cases, there are even logged finds on the Web site several days before the cache's publishing date.

 

To the OP: I understand your frustration at this practice. I wouldn't consider it to be playing fair to do that.

As others have said, FTF is all in the mind. If you know you were the FTF on a cache once it was published then in my mind you are the FTF.

 

There... does that make you feel any better?

 

MrsB

[+legacypac]

I think your issue involves people giving out coords to others before they are public on the website. That happens, but it is like letting some runners start today's race yesterday then declaring them the winner.

 

For some reason now the found logs show up after the publish log does if they are on the same day. That might be part of the issue.

 

In one case I planted a cache way out on a logging road. Then I gave the two other teams (who had been running jeeps through a stream not looking at my hiding activities) the coords. They found the cache, confirmed my coords, signed the log but did not claim "FTF" as they had an early start. They then logged the finds after it was published. I have no issue with these finds as they are legit - just pre-publish.

 

I've actually found 3 unpublished caches.

 

One was part of a series. Finding the published caches got us the info for the unpublished one.

Another pre-publish find was because we were looking for a spot to hide and we found a pre-published cache where we were thinking of putting one.

The last had been out a long time but likely never was published because it was too close to another multi-cache. The hider never retreived it.

 

FTFs are fun to count - for your own benefit and enjoyment. Otherwise who cares!

[+briansnat]

First, how are they coming by this knowledge? (I already had to ask someone how to get the e-mail notices.) Second, are they "cheating"? Maybe I'm just too new to know this is how things work, but my Muggle sense of fair play is injured. Do I need to alter my thinking, or am I caching in the midst of some kind of wide-area bandit lair

 

They may be getting the coords from the owner and no, it's not cheating. This is only a listing service. It's the owner's cache and how he chooses to advertise the cache is up to him If he wants to give the coords to friends, post them in a newspaper ad, broadcast them on Facebook, whatever, its his cache and his business alone.

 

That a small segment of geocachers have an unofficial competition going should be of no concern to the cache owner if he doesn't want it to be.

[+JoesBar]

All you want is a photo of yourself with a log showing you are FTF. But you live in an area where several folks compete for FTF. Competition for FTF varies by location. Per your description, you happen to be in an area where it's high.

 

OK.

 

You can get instant messages to your cell phone notifying you when a cache is published. I think you can set up the radius from your home. Once you get that notice, you MUST drop everything and go for the cache. Eventually, you should score the FTF. Then you can complete the other requirements for that other cache.

 

Since it's common in your area for coords to new caches to be handed out at events prior to publishing, you can get the coords at the event and immediatly run for the cache. Provided the logbook is blank when you get there, the picture you take of your log meets the requirement for the other cache.

 

BTW, a recent change in the guidelines for caches eliminates Additonal Logging Requirements, unless they are caching related. Which means that you don't HAVE TO complete all the picture requirements to log a 'find' at that cache. But you can still do them for fun. I haven't looked at the cache you described so I don't know if all the requested pictures are cache related.

 

Good luck on that FTF.

[+Teese]

I'm a little late to this topic, just like I'm a little late (i.e., in the post-FTF wave of finders) to a lot of caches, but thought I'd add this since I live within a mere stone's throw (OK, that's an Ichiro stone's throw) of the OP. Yes, we live in a 3-county area that has a number of extremely competitive FTF enthusiasts (some of their FTF runs end up in geochats and coffee afterwards)--but yet I have accumulated over 3 dozen FTFs while working full time and receiving no more than email notification. If you make an effort (as in hike, bike, and/or get out in the rural county) an FTF will indeed come your way (my last was another small town in the OP's county a full day after publication-another a couple before that involved a hike and was up nearly a week before I got to it).

 

I differ with a fair number of people with respect to caches announced at events (and not appearing on geocaching.com for another day or so). I was the first to find one of those and, before I logged online, the first finder after publication claimed FTF. I simply logged as FTFAH (first to find after hiding) and trust I diffused any angst by handling it that way. If its an announced event, I think the (i.e., my) FTF is the "real" one; though I have different feelings about CO-provided coords to select friends.

 

And lastly, I feel your pain regarding lamp post caches but, brace yourself, they're out there and more are coming ... so at least it's reassuring that your own hides will rise to a higher level of ingenuity. Oh, and pssst, just lemme know the coords before they hit gc!

 

Teese

[+BrewerMD]

Hi there. I was one of the people out with ZorkFox that night. The story isn't entirely complete. The cache coords were handed out by the cache owner and was placed with the intent that he would pass out the cache coords at the event. Get over it. I published 11 caches about 2 weeks ago within 25 miles of home base. They sat for three days unfound.

 

There is no secret conspiracy going on here. We all get the coords via email just like you do. The only time coords are known in advance are either when someone is beta testing to make sure the coords are good or when there is an event and caches are put out for the event.

 

I have no idea how many FTF's I have, I don't track them. If I am in the mood when one publishes, I go for it. Usually, I am not in the mood, however I don't hold bitter thoughts for those that might be. Some people work, some don't some are active in other areas, some aren't. Some have time or are near computers so they know when caches publish.

 

By the way, just went and found a cache that published last night.

Edited April 26, 2009 by brewermd

[+Wacka]

About three weeks ago, I went caching with a friend that had just reached her 500th find milestone. She was told by the hider that one was going to be placed in her honor and what day it would be activated, but not the time. We did not get the coords beforehand. When it was pulished another cacher friend that had been notified by phone called us with the coords. We had been headed that way and were about 2 miles away. We found it about 5 minutes later. After caching all day, we logged on to claim the FTF and saw that someone who lived 0.25 miles away had been scooped by us. He was mad, but too bad, we didn't get the coords beforehand.

 

I have beta tested a few other people's coords because I was there when it was hidden. In our area, you sign a few spots down the log, state you are a beta tester, wait until 2 or 3 people have logged and then log onlne yourself.

We don't have a problem with that.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Getting the coordinates from the owner or a flaw in programming then running out to find it and claim FTF before anyone else is looking for it is kind of like showing up an hour before the game and running some touchdowns before the opposing team arrives. You could claim them but would be revealed as quite the lame-o if you did.

 

We have some folks in the AGA who really enjoy the FTF game, I did for a while, none of them will hunt something that has not been published.

 

If you want to use advance info to find it before publication, cool, just don't claim FTF... there's no respect won by being first in a one man race!

[+coupleocachers]

Around March - May we have this event called

CAM - Cache Across Maryland

 

There are 10(11 this year) placed around the state. You can only get the coords through the forums and downloads. They don't show up on GC until the day of the event. Then we all log them on the date they were found.

 

The publish date is May 3, but hte caches were placed in March. So a lot of cachers use the date they found it and some use the publication date.

 

Could you imagine going after one of them, and noticing that you are the 80th person to find it since it was publish.

[knowschad]

First-to-Find "Maven"? First time I've heard that term used!

 

According to Wikipedia's definition,

"A maven (also mavin) is a trusted expert in a particular field, who seeks to pass knowledge on to others." I'm not sure it fits. At least not with the folks that you're referring to.

[+baloo&bd]

First to find:

 

First = (Used as a noun) the person or thing that is first in time, order, rank, etc.

to Find = an act of finding or discovering.

 

I just went through the guidelines and not only does it not say anything about not finding a cache before it is published or not logging it with a date prior to the published date it also does not say you have to wait until a cache is published before claiming an FTF. In fact, nowhere is FTF even mentioned with regards to any guidelines.

 

First to find is exactly what it says and has no greater bearing or even status then second or four hundred and forty fourth to find unless it means something to you, much like your find count. If anything, it just means you have different priorities than others, not any recognized skill.

 

If you enjoy creating this side competition, great. Have at it. However when someone has a legitimate find that they do not post as a log on geocaching.com until it has been published, don't whine. They're within published guidelines.

 

If they are doing it for caches that they are logging online that do not meet groundspeaks listing guideline so do not get published, let us know. Most of us will be right there supporting your issue. Wait...maybe not. It doesn't directly affect any of us.

Edited April 27, 2009 by baloo&bd

[+Three Bottles]

ZorkFox -- As cachers in your area we assure you no one is giving out coordinates before the caches are published (with the exception of beta testing). Some cachers have their Geocaching accounts set up so new publication notices are sent to their cellphones, Blackberries, etc.

 

We have notifications sent to our email and have been lucky enough to grab a few FTF's because we were in front of the computer at the right time.

[+J-Way]

FWIW, the OP is now a moot point because of the elimination of ALRs. Specifically, ZF doesn't have to take a picture of a FTF log before logging the cache in question.