Terrible cache hiders...

[+Renegade Knight]

The bottom line is that do the defenders think that the game would be better, no different or worse if a higher percentage of people hid more creative caches?

These debates get silly because I think people just like to argue instead of admitting the obvious.

 

Anyhow, the way TGB talks about Hawaii, it really makes me want to go there. On second thought if there were no caches in Hawaii there I would still want to go to there!

 

When you define creativity. You stiffle it. To get creative caches you have to allow the freedom for a person to place them. When you allow the freedom for creativity to blossom you are going to get all kinds of results.

Considering that 99% of people don't read the forums, nobody is hindering the freedom for creativity to blossom.

Well then at least we have futility on our side.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+KBI]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

[Mr.Yuck]

The bottom line is that do the defenders think that the game would be better, no different or worse if a higher percentage of people hid more creative caches?

These debates get silly because I think people just like to argue instead of admitting the obvious.

 

Anyhow, the way TGB talks about Hawaii, it really makes me want to go there. On second thought if there were no caches in Hawaii there I would still want to go to there!

 

When you define creativity. You stiffle it. To get creative caches you have to allow the freedom for a person to place them. When you allow the freedom for creativity to blossom you are going to get all kinds of results.

Considering that 99% of people don't read the forums, nobody is hindering the freedom for creativity to blossom.

Well then at least we have futility on our side.

 

It's only 80%, but I agree on the futility. TG, you can take over my henchman duties in the thread, if you like.

[+TrailGators]

I am against having a minimum standard of creativity, as it would be another Wow!! guideline like there was for virtual caches.

The site would never do that. They've actually made it very clear as to what they will and will not do.

 

Ummm, they DID do that. It didn't work and virts bit the dust.

 

BTW - I actually got a virt approved under the double secret WOW factor guideline.

I have two virtuals. One is wow and one is eh. Anyhow, I'm fully aware that they did it and it was a failure. That is why I said they will (future tense) never do it. Edited November 20, 2008 by TrailGators

[+TrailGators]

pretty view

 

nice walk/hike

 

historic/unusual

 

cleverly hidden

 

smile

 

adventure

 

good

 

special

 

carrot

 

amazing

 

dream

 

Did you throw carrot in there to see if we were paying attention? If so, I'd like to add that is a water-tight carrot with an o-ring seal.

[+TrailGators]

The bottom line is that do the defenders think that the game would be better, no different or worse if a higher percentage of people hid more creative caches?

These debates get silly because I think people just like to argue instead of admitting the obvious.

 

Anyhow, the way TGB talks about Hawaii, it really makes me want to go there. On second thought if there were no caches in Hawaii there I would still want to go to there!

 

When you define creativity. You stiffle it. To get creative caches you have to allow the freedom for a person to place them. When you allow the freedom for creativity to blossom you are going to get all kinds of results.

Considering that 99% of people don't read the forums, nobody is hindering the freedom for creativity to blossom.

Well then at least we have futility on our side.

Resistance is futile...

[+Team GeoBlast]

Are you going to remove my label also, or is the cut off for your respect the month before I started playing the game?

 

I'm prepared to start respecting you at any time. You know what you need to do to earn it. I don't even have to say it.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to lose my self respect to gain the so-called respect of someone else.

 

I guess it bears revisiting the fact that you asked the question in the first place. A long time ago, you decided that you would make a career out of trolling me and you do it, unprovoked, at any opportunity you see. If you are not willing to stop doing that, I have no problem with it as you seem like you are pretty into your right to do anything you please. Just don't ask me to lift any labels I've put on you again.

 

Deal?

No. What are you talking about?

 

This is a fairly good example of what I was talking about sbell111.

 

You asked if I was going to give you the same respect ("remove my label") as I gave Jester for the years you have had a Geocaching account. This was YOUR question to me. Okay so far?

 

I said I was ready to respect you at any time if you would stop trolling me, totally unprovoked. I don't think I have responded to you for several months. Got that much?

 

Then you went on to day you refuse to lose your self respect (it's funny how that is tied in with trolling) in order to gain mine. Pretty simple thus far I'd say, no?

 

I said, okay, go ahead and troll me if you feel that you need to but I am not removing the useless troll label until you stop trolling me for no reason except to add more angst to a conversation and insult me.

 

I do not think there is anything in here that is so hard to understand but you felt you needed to ask me what I was talking about or in a nutshell continue trolling.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+SimbaJamey]

I just want decent coordinates.

I stopped at one yesterday in a mall parking lot. Apparently that cacher has a reputation for soft coordinates (Which I've seen a bunch of times including the first cache I ever tried for). I was standing in a parking lot with the GPS saying zero (Both yesterday and on the first one). The first one, I found the cache (after a hint) about 25 feet away (nano on a sign post) from GZ (got the same GZ on 10 different days). Yesterday I assumed it was in the stand of about 10 cedar trees on the edge of the lot, again about 25' away (It was the only thing remotely close to where I was when the GPS got down to 0) but this time I didn't even bother to look.

That one got me to the point where I'm going to finally make myself an ignore list and go through that cachers eighty or ninety hides (the ones I've not yet found) and put them on the list so they're no longer in my PQs or on my GPSr.

I don't mind if I have to look around a little in the woods (I've spent as much as 12 hours looking for a cache or two), especially if the cache page says they averaged x number of readings to get it as close as they could given the conditions...But I really think I'm done looking for ones where someone thinks they're being slick putting you out in the middle of a parking lot with nothing but asphalt for 25' in any direction.

That, in my opinion, is LAME!

[Mushtang]

Are you going to remove my label also, or is the cut off for your respect the month before I started playing the game?

I'm prepared to start respecting you at any time. You know what you need to do to earn it. I don't even have to say it.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to lose my self respect to gain the so-called respect of someone else.

I guess it bears revisiting the fact that you asked the question in the first place. A long time ago, you decided that you would make a career out of trolling me and you do it, unprovoked, at any opportunity you see. If you are not willing to stop doing that, I have no problem with it as you seem like you are pretty into your right to do anything you please. Just don't ask me to lift any labels I've put on you again.

 

Deal?

No. What are you talking about?

This is a fairly good example of what I was talking about sbell111.

 

You asked if I was going to give you the same respect ("remove my label") as I gave Jester for the years you have had a Geocaching account. This was YOUR question to me. Okay so far?

 

I said I was ready to respect you at any time if you would stop trolling me, totally unprovoked. I don't think I have responded to you for several months. Got that much?

 

Then you went on to day you refuse to lose your self respect (it's funny how that is tied in with trolling) in order to gain mine. Pretty simple thus far I'd say, no?

 

I said, okay, go ahead and troll me if you feel that you need to but I am not removing the useless troll label until you stop trolling me for no reason except to add more angst to a conversation and insult me.

 

I do not think there is anything in here that is so hard to understand but you felt you needed to ask me what I was talking about or in a nutshell continue trolling.

It's funny how in your recap you act like the word "trolling" had been there all along. When I read Sbell's question asking you what you were talking about I too was curious where that came from. He wanted you to take away his Defender label based on something you'd said to someone else, and you wanted to make it about trolling.

 

I guess I just "twisted your words" or something, but I'm not sure you can act all high and mighty when you're the only one out of the two of you that knew you were talking about trolling before you said it.

[+Saginaw Bloodhounds]

I am fairly new to the whole geocaching scene. It’s a great group of people all loving the same great hobby. I have spent a lot of time on many different forums, posting and reading. The strange thing is that I have never seen such anger and hostility towards one another that is constant in this forum. It seems like everyone is just waiting to stop all over someone for just about any reason. I’m almost afraid to post anything here in fear of getting bashed. Is there some hidden reason for all this unkindness?

Edited November 21, 2008 by Saginaw Bloodhounds

[+Team GeoBlast]

Are you going to remove my label also, or is the cut off for your respect the month before I started playing the game?

I'm prepared to start respecting you at any time. You know what you need to do to earn it. I don't even have to say it.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to lose my self respect to gain the so-called respect of someone else.

I guess it bears revisiting the fact that you asked the question in the first place. A long time ago, you decided that you would make a career out of trolling me and you do it, unprovoked, at any opportunity you see. If you are not willing to stop doing that, I have no problem with it as you seem like you are pretty into your right to do anything you please. Just don't ask me to lift any labels I've put on you again.

 

Deal?

No. What are you talking about?

This is a fairly good example of what I was talking about sbell111.

 

You asked if I was going to give you the same respect ("remove my label") as I gave Jester for the years you have had a Geocaching account. This was YOUR question to me. Okay so far?

 

I said I was ready to respect you at any time if you would stop trolling me, totally unprovoked. I don't think I have responded to you for several months. Got that much?

 

Then you went on to day you refuse to lose your self respect (it's funny how that is tied in with trolling) in order to gain mine. Pretty simple thus far I'd say, no?

 

I said, okay, go ahead and troll me if you feel that you need to but I am not removing the useless troll label until you stop trolling me for no reason except to add more angst to a conversation and insult me.

 

I do not think there is anything in here that is so hard to understand but you felt you needed to ask me what I was talking about or in a nutshell continue trolling.

It's funny how in your recap you act like the word "trolling" had been there all along. When I read Sbell's question asking you what you were talking about I too was curious where that came from. He wanted you to take away his Defender label based on something you'd said to someone else, and you wanted to make it about trolling.

 

I guess I just "twisted your words" or something, but I'm not sure you can act all high and mighty when you're the only one out of the two of you that knew you were talking about trolling before you said it.

 

I said I didn't need to say it, so I didn't. I've said it now so hopefully we are on the same page. There is a reason that I don't respond to either of you any more. Do you want me to say it again or was once enough?

[+Team GeoBlast]

I am fairly new to the whole geocaching scene. It’s a great group of people all loving the same great hobby. I have spent a lot of time on many different forums, posting and reading. The strange thing is that I have never seen such anger and hostility towards one another that is constant in this forum. It seems like everyone is just waiting to stop all over someone for just about any reason. I’m almost afraid to post anything here in fear of getting bashed. Is there some hidden reason for all this unkindness?

 

That is a very legit question.

[Mushtang]

I said I didn't need to say it, so I didn't. I've said it now so hopefully we are on the same page. There is a reason that I don't respond to either of you any more. Do you want me to say it again or was once enough?

You thought you didn't need to say it, but apparently you did since nobody other than you knew what you were talking about. Then you got mad because he couldn't read your mind.

[+Team GeoBlast]

The bottom line is that do the defenders think that the game would be better, no different or worse if a higher percentage of people hid more creative caches?

These debates get silly because I think people just like to argue instead of admitting the obvious.

 

Anyhow, the way TGB talks about Hawaii, it really makes me want to go there. On second thought if there were no caches in Hawaii there I would still want to go to there!

 

When you define creativity. You stiffle it. To get creative caches you have to allow the freedom for a person to place them. When you allow the freedom for creativity to blossom you are going to get all kinds of results.

Considering that 99% of people don't read the forums, nobody is hindering the freedom for creativity to blossom.

Well then at least we have futility on our side.

 

It's only 80%, but I agree on the futility. TG, you can take over my henchman duties in the thread, if you like.

 

Hey no slacking now.

[+TrailGators]

I am fairly new to the whole geocaching scene. It's a great group of people all loving the same great hobby. I have spent a lot of time on many different forums, posting and reading. The strange thing is that I have never seen such anger and hostility towards one another that is constant in this forum. It seems like everyone is just waiting to stop all over someone for just about any reason. I'm almost afraid to post anything here in fear of getting bashed. Is there some hidden reason for all this unkindness?

I know what you mean. You just have to focus on the positive posts in this thread. For example, what did you think of this post? That could be a city street in Saginaw! Edited November 21, 2008 by TrailGators

[Mr.Yuck]

I am fairly new to the whole geocaching scene. It’s a great group of people all loving the same great hobby. I have spent a lot of time on many different forums, posting and reading. The strange thing is that I have never seen such anger and hostility towards one another that is constant in this forum. It seems like everyone is just waiting to stop all over someone for just about any reason. I’m almost afraid to post anything here in fear of getting bashed. Is there some hidden reason for all this unkindness?

 

Seriously now? Have you ever been to a College or Pro sports forum? That's some nasty, nasty stuff. How about usenet, where there is foul language, stalking and death threats, daily? But it can't be all that bad, geocaching was invented there.

[+Saginaw Bloodhounds]

I just want to see everyone get along and have fun. Id hate to hear about a brawl in the middle of the woods between some geocachers that werent getting along on here.

[Mr.Yuck]

I just want to see everyone get along and have fun. Id hate to hear about a brawl in the middle of the woods between some geocachers that werent getting along on here.

 

Hey, KBI and Too Tall John met for Coffee and caching once. I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

[+tozainamboku]

I am fairly new to the whole geocaching scene. It’s a great group of people all loving the same great hobby. I have spent a lot of time on many different forums, posting and reading. The strange thing is that I have never seen such anger and hostility towards one another that is constant in this forum. It seems like everyone is just waiting to stop all over someone for just about any reason. I’m almost afraid to post anything here in fear of getting bashed. Is there some hidden reason for all this unkindness?

I agree. On the ice cream forums I never see the people who like chocolate complain that vanilla is lame. And rarely even see the people who like Häagen-Dazs complain that some generic store brand is not made with the right ingredients and the manufacturers of the generic store brand should be encouraged to use the right ingredients instead of making ice cream with cheap ingredients that they then sell for less and out sell the Häagen-Dasz.

[+TrailGators]

I just want to see everyone get along and have fun. Id hate to hear about a brawl in the middle of the woods between some geocachers that werent getting along on here.

 

Hey, KBI and Too Tall John met for Coffee and caching once. I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

I'm going to a Snoogans event at an Irish pub tomorrow night. Unfortunately, his plans changed and now he can't make it out here. Maybe next time...

[+Snoogans]

I just want to see everyone get along and have fun. Id hate to hear about a brawl in the middle of the woods between some geocachers that werent getting along on here.

 

Hey, KBI and Too Tall John met for Coffee and caching once. I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

I'm going to a Snoogans event at an Irish pub tomorrow night. Unfortunately, his plans changed and now he can't make it out here. Maybe next time...

 

Sorry I can't be there. Not my fault the stupid Navy won't allow a civilian to attend a course inside their brig at Miramar. That's okay though! I get to hang out with OzGuff and the Asheville, N.C. cachers instead. I guess the Asheville P.D. ain't as exclusive as the Navy.

 

I mailed LLOT a bunch of my coins, but only 15 are my siggy coin. Better get there early. LLOT has special instructions to give something special to the FTF of the event.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Snoogans

[+TrailGators]

I just want to see everyone get along and have fun. Id hate to hear about a brawl in the middle of the woods between some geocachers that werent getting along on here.

 

Hey, KBI and Too Tall John met for Coffee and caching once. I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

I'm going to a Snoogans event at an Irish pub tomorrow night. Unfortunately, his plans changed and now he can't make it out here. Maybe next time...

 

Sorry I can't be there. Not my fault the stupid Navy won't allow a civilian to attend a course inside their brig at Miramar. That's okay though! I get to hang out with OzGuff and the Asheville, N.C. cachers instead. I guess the Asheville P.D. ain't as exclusive as the Navy.

 

I mailed LLOT a bunch of my coins, but only 15 are my siggy coin. Better get there early. LLOT has special instructions to give something special to the FTF of the event.

I'm headed there after work, so mayyyybe I will be the FTF...Thanks for sending that stuff out here. That was very nice of you to do! Edited November 21, 2008 by TrailGators

[+ThePachecos]

I just want decent coordinates.

I stopped at one yesterday in a mall parking lot. Apparently that cacher has a reputation for soft coordinates (Which I've seen a bunch of times including the first cache I ever tried for). I was standing in a parking lot with the GPS saying zero (Both yesterday and on the first one). The first one, I found the cache (after a hint) about 25 feet away (nano on a sign post) from GZ (got the same GZ on 10 different days). Yesterday I assumed it was in the stand of about 10 cedar trees on the edge of the lot, again about 25' away (It was the only thing remotely close to where I was when the GPS got down to 0) but this time I didn't even bother to look.

That one got me to the point where I'm going to finally make myself an ignore list and go through that cachers eighty or ninety hides (the ones I've not yet found) and put them on the list so they're no longer in my PQs or on my GPSr.

I don't mind if I have to look around a little in the woods (I've spent as much as 12 hours looking for a cache or two), especially if the cache page says they averaged x number of readings to get it as close as they could given the conditions...But I really think I'm done looking for ones where someone thinks they're being slick putting you out in the middle of a parking lot with nothing but asphalt for 25' in any direction.

That, in my opinion, is LAME!

 

It sounds like you may want someone to paint a sign on it for you that says here it is. Most GPS's can be off anywhere from 20' to 30' depending on the model.. I think hunting is part of the fun. I know a lot of FTFers that seem to find the hides no matter how far they are off. If it were easy it wouldnt be fun.

[+KBI]

I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

When did KBI say that?

[+Wild Thing 73]

I guess I fall into the category of a "terrible cache hider"...I have placed a few "really good" caches and a few of "so, so" caches and a number of just plain ordinary caches of all types of traditional caches. But, they all have a log and when the caches are found and the logbook is signed and dated, the cacher gets a smiley. I'm just an ordinary cache owner with no really out of this world "put together" extraordinary caches. Just a cache owner trying to provide caches for others to search and enjoy the challenge of the hunt. As, one reviewer told me, " keep hiding caches, no caches, we have no job". Happy caching

[Mr.Yuck]

I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

When did KBI say that?

 

Oh, it was a joke. I'm quite sure it was via PM, not the forums, and it's certainly not a direct quote:D

 

But there was a forum thread about you and forum adversary TTJ going out caching together, and the associated peace, love, goodwill, and good Karma that resulted from it. That I'm sure of.

[Mr.Yuck]

I guess I fall into the category of a "terrible cache hider"...I have placed a few "really good" caches and a few of "so, so" caches and a number of just plain ordinary caches of all types of traditional caches. But, they all have a log and when the caches are found and the logbook is signed and dated, the cacher gets a smiley. I'm just an ordinary cache owner with no really out of this world "put together" extraordinary caches. Just a cache owner trying to provide caches for others to search and enjoy the challenge of the hunt. As, one reviewer told me, " keep hiding caches, no caches, we have no job". Happy caching

 

First of all, I would not call you a "terrible cache hider". Somewhere in the thread I stated the first thing I think of when I hear terrible hider is a long history of tossing out caches while exhibiting a bad record of maintaining them. I also commend you for providing, and often stating "safe parking" for your caches.

 

However, I do believe you are a "numbers hider". I would ignore a large number of your caches, if we were from the same area. Most of them appear to be "roadside grabs", placed just because there isn't a cache there already in my opinion. Your cache descriptions are often very minimal, almost always 15 words or less. People appear to converge on your area and your caches for number runs.

 

I know I'd like to know why someone ignored my cache placements, so there you go. So I guess what I'm asking is, when you became a geocacher, and started to get some experience, why and/or how did you come to the conclusion that it is a numbers oriented game, and people like to look for them because they "get a smiley"?

 

Edited to add "in my opinion" in a certain spot.

Edited November 21, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+Team GeoBlast]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

[+Team GeoBlast]

As, one reviewer told me, " keep hiding caches, no caches, we have no job". Happy caching

 

I'm just curious as to the context or circumstances that your reviewer told you this?

[+sbell111]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

One of you ignores the hides of others and teh other of you doesn't??? Isn't that what this thread is about?

[+TrailGators]

I'd go out with KBI, but he refuses to fly into my City, for some reason.

When did KBI say that?

Are you referring to yourself in the third person or is someone else using your account?

[+infiniteMPG]

I just want decent coordinates.

But doo-doo doth occur. At work today I answered a call from a caching buddy. He's trying to do a new multi that's a 1.5/1.5 and 3 others have failed at. People complaining that the final (which was listed as 1 mile away) was in the Gulf of Mexico 11 miles away. We figured it out that there was a typ-O in the puzzle in the listing. Oh well, it'll get fixed as the owner is a good local guy.

 

I have also found caches that were DNF'd by a handful of people, by reading the hints and the listing I went off gut instinct and found it 175-feet away from GZ. The errors don't bother me as long as the owner checks it out and resolves the issue. What bugs me is when something is way off at GZ and the owner does nothing.

 

GSPr's aren't 100% for the people hiding any more then they are for the people finding. And just because someone has a bazillion dollar nuclear powered GSP with lasers doesn't change the fact that the person hid it using a fishfinder held together with duct tape and rubber bands. Some people out there rely on things like Google Earth and find caches with no GPSr. Asking for always getting +/- 5 feet to GZ is a nice wish, but it ain't reality. The latitude for variation is part of the challenge

 

And typ-O's happen, too. I mis-typed the coords one time submitting a new hide which put my cache in the wrong STATE, and the reviewer approved it....

[+infiniteMPG]

As, one reviewer told me, " keep hiding caches, no caches, we have no job". Happy caching

job  [job] –noun 1. a piece of work, esp. a specific task done as part of the routine of one's occupation or for an agreed price

Hmmmm.... I guess they could say "job" as long as the agreed price was zero Same price as we owners get for hiding and maintaining our caches.

Edited November 21, 2008 by infiniteMPG

[+Team GeoBlast]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

One of you ignores the hides of others and teh other of you doesn't??? Isn't that what this thread is about?

 

Please do not answer for KBI. Thanks.

[+tozainamboku]

I know I'd like to know why someone ignored my cache placements, so there you go. So I guess what I'm asking is, when you became a geocacher, and started to get some experience, why and/or how did you come to the conclusion that it is a numbers oriented game, and people like to look for them because they "get a smiley"?

I just assume that people ignore my puzzle caches because they don't like puzzles. Or perhaps they look and decide they were just too difficult to try to solve. I assume people ignore my hiking caches because they just don't like hikes or that mine are just too far to walk. If I had hidden any LPCs in the parking lot, I would assume that people who ignore them just don't like parking lot hides or urban micros.

 

As far as people who enjoy finding a lot of quick park and grabs instead of taking time for a hike to an isolated cache, finding multi caches, or driving to some historic locale to find a cache, my guess is that they enjoy that aspect of the game.

 

I have no problem with those who enjoy challenging caches that take time to find, or long hikes to get to, or are at interesting places. But I have to question why they feel someone who likes to find caches in parking lots or finds 50 caches in a day is some how defective and must justify their preferences.

 

I happen to like Thomas Kinkade paintings and I am not going to spend time justifying why to some art critic.

[+onfire4jesus]

Considering that 99% of people don't read the forums

The strange thing is that I have never seen such anger and hostility towards one another that is constant in this forum. It seems like everyone is just waiting to stop all over someone for just about any reason.

I wonder if these two posts have some sort of relation to each other?

[+TrailGators]

I know I'd like to know why someone ignored my cache placements, so there you go. So I guess what I'm asking is, when you became a geocacher, and started to get some experience, why and/or how did you come to the conclusion that it is a numbers oriented game, and people like to look for them because they "get a smiley"?

I just assume that people ignore my puzzle caches because they don't like puzzles. Or perhaps they look and decide they were just too difficult to try to solve. I assume people ignore my hiking caches because they just don't like hikes or that mine are just too far to walk. If I had hidden any LPCs in the parking lot, I would assume that people who ignore them just don't like parking lot hides or urban micros.

 

As far as people who enjoy finding a lot of quick park and grabs instead of taking time for a hike to an isolated cache, finding multi caches, or driving to some historic locale to find a cache, my guess is that they enjoy that aspect of the game.

 

I have no problem with those who enjoy challenging caches that take time to find, or long hikes to get to, or are at interesting places. But I have to question why they feel someone who likes to find caches in parking lots or finds 50 caches in a day is some how defective and must justify their preferences.

 

I happen to like Thomas Kinkade paintings and I am not going to spend time justifying why to some art critic.

It's super easy to segregate out puzzles and hiking caches. The issue is how to quickly sift through the thousands urbans some of us have these days. To use an analogy, we have a vat of milk and some of us are looking for the cream. Milk is OK with me, but I've been doing this long enough to know that there is no surefire way to avoid the stuff stuck to the bottom of that vat. I don't want any part of that stuff. That's why I've been asking for a feature to ignore all hiders' caches that hide that stuff. I don't think this is a unreasonable request. It is also done in private so nobody has to know whose caches I'm ignoring.

[+sbell111]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

One of you ignores the hides of others and teh other of you doesn't??? Isn't that what this thread is about?

 

Please do not answer for KBI. Thanks.

One would expect KBI to be the one to get upset about someone answering for KBI. That being said, if your comment was meant solely for one specific person, it should have been made via PM.

[Mr.Yuck]

I know I'd like to know why someone ignored my cache placements, so there you go. So I guess what I'm asking is, when you became a geocacher, and started to get some experience, why and/or how did you come to the conclusion that it is a numbers oriented game, and people like to look for them because they "get a smiley"?

I just assume that people ignore my puzzle caches because they don't like puzzles. Or perhaps they look and decide they were just too difficult to try to solve. I assume people ignore my hiking caches because they just don't like hikes or that mine are just too far to walk. If I had hidden any LPCs in the parking lot, I would assume that people who ignore them just don't like parking lot hides or urban micros.

 

As far as people who enjoy finding a lot of quick park and grabs instead of taking time for a hike to an isolated cache, finding multi caches, or driving to some historic locale to find a cache, my guess is that they enjoy that aspect of the game.

 

I have no problem with those who enjoy challenging caches that take time to find, or long hikes to get to, or are at interesting places. But I have to question why they feel someone who likes to find caches in parking lots or finds 50 caches in a day is some how defective and must justify their preferences.

 

 

Umm, because this is a discussion forum on a hobby? And I don't believe anything in my post refers to anyone as being defective. It's pretty much a different game than I play, and I'm curious. So is my boss TGB.

[+Team GeoBlast]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

One of you ignores the hides of others and teh other of you doesn't??? Isn't that what this thread is about?

 

Please do not answer for KBI. Thanks.

One would expect KBI to be the one to get upset about someone answering for KBI. That being said, if your comment was meant solely for one specific person, it should have been made via PM.

 

Okay, I will try to remember that next time. But I am glad we are clear that this doesn't have anything to do with you and I am not interested in your viewpoint on KBI's or my viewpoint.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+sbell111]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

One of you ignores the hides of others and teh other of you doesn't??? Isn't that what this thread is about?

 

Please do not answer for KBI. Thanks.

One would expect KBI to be the one to get upset about someone answering for KBI. That being said, if your comment was meant solely for one specific person, it should have been made via PM.

 

Okay, I will try to remember that next time. But I am glad we are clear that this doesn't have anything to do with you.

This is a thread about geocaching in a geocaching forum. It has to do with all of us.

[+Team GeoBlast]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

One of you ignores the hides of others and teh other of you doesn't??? Isn't that what this thread is about?

 

Please do not answer for KBI. Thanks.

One would expect KBI to be the one to get upset about someone answering for KBI. That being said, if your comment was meant solely for one specific person, it should have been made via PM.

 

Okay, I will try to remember that next time. But I am glad we are clear that this doesn't have anything to do with you.

This is a thread about geocaching in a geocaching forum. It has to do with all of us.

 

Yes, everyone that is named KBI and TGB. Once again, you find yourself on a time out. It sounds like it is hard for you to accept but that is why time outs are given.

[+sbell111]

Yes, everyone that is named KBI and TGB. Once again, you find yourself on a time out. It sounds like it is hard for you to accept but that is why time outs are given.

Once again, you appear to be posting in some kind of code.

[+Renegade Knight]

Right now I'm looking for Bobbleheads in Fallout 3. None of those are that cleverly hidden. What suggestions should we give Bethusda on how to hide their 'bobblehead caches' for Fallout 4?

[Mushtang]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I'll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That's the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person's taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I've stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

My guess is that the bolded part is where you two differ. KBI (and others) seem to have the ability to appreciate and enjoy just about any cache, and unlike you (and others) refuses to bad mouth some caches in the forums.

[+KBI]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

Ultimately I think that only you can answer that question.

 

If, as you say, you believe my description of my viewpoint was clear; if you believe your viewpoint differs meaningfully from mine; and if you want it to be publicly known exactly what those differences are ... then that’s your job.

 

My only purpose in posting that post was to rebut your strange and groundless claim that I am anti-creativity.

[+Team GeoBlast]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

I love creative caches.

 

I would always prefer a brilliantly inspired piece of original cleverness to something that gave me less of a smile, all things being equal. Given the choice between a bland hide and no cache at all, however, I’ll take the bland hide. It gives me something to do, I get to play with my GPS, it gets me outside, etc, etc. Most important is that I have a choice: Nobody makes me go after the bland hide. I am free to either seek it or to ignore it.

 

Whenever I am impressed with a hide I leave a highly complimentary log ... but when I am less than impressed I say thank you anyway. That’s the same way I treat people in person. Each hide is a gift from a stranger. Why would I want to be so boorish as to insult a free experience nobody forced me to seek out in the first place?

 

Yes, I enjoy the inspired ones much more than the lame ones. "Lame" is a subjective judgment, however, and it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard. To each his own.

 

I hide the kinds of caches I like to hide, and I find the kinds of caches I like to find. I would never presume to suggest to another cacher that he do otherwise. Every person’s taste is unique. Everyone likes to be entertained and nobody prefers lameness, yet no cache is inherently lame to everyone. "Lame" is only in the eye of the Garminholder.

 

There. I’ve stated my position (again). You two fine gentlemen may now resume ignoring my stated position (again), and start telling me (again) how much I despise creativity.

 

Thanks, that's pretty clear to me but I will to admit to having a tough time pinpointing what we are debating now.

 

Considering your stated viewpoint above, can you point out where we differ?

Ultimately I think that only you can answer that question.

 

If, as you say, you believe my description of my viewpoint was clear; if you believe your viewpoint differs meaningfully from mine; and if you want it to be publicly known exactly what those differences are ... then that’s your job.

 

My only purpose in posting that post was to rebut your strange and groundless claim that I am anti-creativity.

 

That is interesting because you've put quite a bit of energy into expressing that you don't like about mine and others viewpoints on creativity, numbers hiders, and so on. I'd estimate at least 20 posts by you alone (double if you add the henchmen) and a week in the bank so far.

 

Since you've been representing yourself as an authority on what is going on inside our heads and used that knowledge to form such a strong opinion, I just thought that you would be able to buttet point for me how significantly differ in respect to your stated position above.

[+KBI]

That is interesting because you've put quite a bit of energy into expressing that you don't like about mine and others viewpoints on creativity, numbers hiders, and so on. I'd estimate at least 20 posts by you alone (double if you add the henchmen) and a week in the bank so far.

 

Since you've been representing yourself as an authority on what is going on inside our heads and used that knowledge to form such a strong opinion, I just thought that you would be able to buttet point for me how significantly differ in respect to your stated position above.

While I appreciate your attempt to pick a fight – you might even say I am flattered – I’m sorry to say I am not really interested in walking into such a pointless trap.

 

If you will survey the content of my posts instead of simply counting them you will see that my "energy" has been put into expressing my own viewpoint, not attacking yours. My posts have been generally first-person, not second or third. Any offense you have taken has therefore been due to your own discomfort. I have not represented myself as an authority on what is going on inside your head. I am only an authority on my own opinion. If you want your opinion analyzed, you’ll need to do that yourself.

 

If I merely say that I am tolerant of other cachers’ preferences; that in my opinion any guideline-compliant cache is better than no cache at all; that I think 'lame' is a subjective judgment, and that it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard ...

 

... If I say all those things about myself and nothing about you, yet you feel my expressions of caching tolerance and "to each his own" thinking are somehow a direct attack against your own agenda, then that is your business, not mine.

 

If you have a specific problem with something particular I have stated about my point of view, then let’s hear it. I have no objection to open-mindedly considering your honest criticisms of my thinking. If you can convince me to shed an erroneous viewpoint in exchange for something more reasonable that I haven’t previously considered, I welcome the help.

 

If you’re just feeling vaguely defensive or insecure after reading my expression of my own viewpoint, however, then maybe the ambiguity lies not between the two of us, but within your own subconscious uncertainty. It's really none of my business – other than to the extent you keep trying to make it my business.

 

Again: My only purpose in posting that post was to rebut your earlier claim that I am "anti-creativity." You now seem to have dropped that charge while also admitting that I have made my true position quite clear. Anyone reading our posts can therefore observe any opinion differences they may perceive between us and then make up their own minds with whom to agree. I therefore see nothing left to fight about.

[+The Jester]

Imagine Geocaching if this was all there was to it for a moment. A game that only encouraged you to hide something so it can be found. All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon. We would quite possibly have the world's silliest game.

I've followed this thread since the beginning, but stayed out of it (as much as I wanted to jump on one comment or another) - until now. This quote is just too funny, because it describes geocaching as it was in the beginning. I've been to many of the early caches - some because that's when I started, others because they are an interest of mine (why? I don't know, they just are. In fact, I started the first History Challenge cache). Let's see ... a cache at a wide spot in the road without anything else to recommend it (no view, history, hike, etc.); a cache at a freeway intersection out a way from most everything (including view, history, hikes and the like); a cache in the woods under one of countless bushes (I still haven't found the right one, I'll keep probing bushes. You can hike to this one, or drive within 100 yards); a cache in a ATV playground out in near desert (the only view is the noisy machines that may run you down get to the cache); a cache under a tree in range land just off a dirt road (careful what you sit on); a cache under a sage bush next to a quarry with a nice view (and sound) of the newer quarry just over there. These are all caches that were set up very early on - when the whole idea was to "hide something so it can be found".

 

And when has a tolerance for ... let's see, how should I phrase this, hmm, you would probably say: "less creative" caches mean frowning on the use of creativity? If a hider doesn't have creativity and places a bland cache, because I (or anybody) don't condemn him for it that means I (or we) don't like/want (i.e. 'frown on') creativity??? Maybe that bland cache was the best he could do? So, because he isn't up to your standard he shouldn't be placing caches?

I've seen where that has gotten out of hand with some of the puzzle caches around here - every one has to be "new" and "creative" (you can't reuse an idea, that's old hat or as you would say "lame". How often is a Sodoko puzzle used any more? Too "lame.") - to the point where many of them are so obscure that without a nudge from the hider you can't solve it.

 

 

Thanks for your well thought out comments Jester but you took that comment out of context and it does not reflect what I am trying to say, as you present it. All I have been suggesting is that we should encourage the development "a culture" of creativity, not mandate it. Nobody posting in this thread is trying to do that. I would really like to be clear about that.

 

Geocaching has evolved in the past eight years into what it is today. So while citing “how it was” is an interesting history lesson, it’s really irrelevant to this discussion. When someone decides to hide a cache today, they have to start somewhere and there is emulation. Sure not every cache has to be new or creative (again nobody is saying that or condemning anyone's effort) but it almost seems to me that simple encouragement is being discouraged by you and others. Innovation is a key to the continued advancement of the game and trying to keep it where it was back in 2001 is not something I support.

 

I think I am working from a disadvantage in some respects as I began Geocaching in an area where the standard that I speak of was already set. That is the culture that I learned to cache in and it is just understood that if you put a cache out, you are going to make it the best you can. No, not all of them are exceptional and there is no snobbishness, just friendly encouragement and pride. But the effort put forth does show. Coming from this reality, I'm not sure that I would have even liked the game you describe back in the day. As has been suggested by others, I would have found something else to do.

 

When someone gets so upset that we encourage people to do better in this forum, it’s almost surreal to me. But in the end it makes me feel fortunate that I've had the experience that I have had.

I wasn't trying to restate your position, just comment on how that I didn't have to imagine if the game was that way - that's how it was when I began. And it's basically the same today.

 

Sticking a label on something, or someone, isn't the best way to have a discussion. Calling a cache 'lame' or someone as 'anti-creativity' can raise hackles and create defensive responses.

 

Perhaps I owe you an apology Jester, this was your first post in this thread and I probably did some projecting and lumping in with some of the earlier discussion. I'm not trying trying to label you with anything but respect for your experience in the game. What I am asking you to understand is that what I am suggesting is not a change in the guidelines to mandate creativity. If you met me, you'd realize that the last thing a stranger would expect from me is an insult.

 

I'd like to ask you a question since I have no experience in Geocaching when all it was as you describe. Do you feel like the game has improved as it relates specifically to the caches we find since then? You've already mentioned the puzzle people in your circle trying to outdo each other and how you feel that might be over the top. If we can agree that everyone influences their own geo-culture in the places where they live, do you find yourself discouraging people to follow this model or what advice to give a new cacher if given the opportunity?

Has the game improved? Definitely in many ways, but specifically to cache hides - yes and no. The game is still about finding a hidden container, that hasn't changed. There have been many, many variations developed since the beginning, but many hides are almost identical to the early ideas (such as, caches behind trees/stumps/logs covered in debris). Many of the so called 'lame' hides were fresh and exciting - maybe being copied too much is the real complaint (but remember, to someone it's still "new"[*]). I remember when micro's were first being hidden (and they were film cans, the smaller stuff came later) and how hard they seemed (which was the idea - you rarely saw one rated less than 3*) and the 'joy' when you found one. Now, bison tubes are hidden with a 1* rating and film cans are looked upon with disgust (or so it seems). So, changed - yes; improved - ?? Lot's of different ways to hide the container is a plus, but it's still a hidden container that I get to find with my GPSr.

 

Advice. I rarely give it about cache hides - and then only when I'm asked specifically. Now, talking about various cache hides I do all the time - and not only the 'newest' and creative. Chatting about the 'oldie' hides sometimes is helpful (which reminds me, no one is doing fake birdhouses any more, maybe I should set one up and surprise the newbies... Hmmm...) I've even talked about LPC's - telling about my first one and why I liked it (and others since then) - often to counter the negitive chatter so often heard (although, around here it's the ammo can under a pile of sticks that gets diss'ed). Many times I've had people 'soften' their stance about them when an honest discussion about them is held.

 

[*] I'm a magician. I have one act that I've done - almost no changes - for over 30 years. I can just about do it in my sleep (I've done it when I was so ill I could hardly see straight, but that's another story.). To me it's 'boring' - the same thing over and over and over... - but to my audience it's new and exciting. This is one of the reasons I can be tolerant of the same style of cache hide, I can see it from both sides.

[+Team GeoBlast]

That is interesting because you've put quite a bit of energy into expressing that you don't like about mine and others viewpoints on creativity, numbers hiders, and so on. I'd estimate at least 20 posts by you alone (double if you add the henchmen) and a week in the bank so far.

 

Since you've been representing yourself as an authority on what is going on inside our heads and used that knowledge to form such a strong opinion, I just thought that you would be able to buttet point for me how significantly differ in respect to your stated position above.

While I appreciate your attempt to pick a fight – you might even say I am flattered – I’m sorry to say I am not really interested in walking into such a pointless trap.

 

If you will survey the content of my posts instead of simply counting them you will see that my "energy" has been put into expressing my own viewpoint, not attacking yours. My posts have been generally first-person, not second or third. Any offense you have taken has therefore been due to your own discomfort. I have not represented myself as an authority on what is going on inside your head. I am only an authority on my own opinion. If you want your opinion analyzed, you’ll need to do that yourself.

 

If I merely say that I am tolerant of other cachers’ preferences; that in my opinion any guideline-compliant cache is better than no cache at all; that I think 'lame' is a subjective judgment, and that it is therefore not my place to suggest to anyone else that they adopt my personal standard ...

 

... If I say all those things about myself and nothing about you, yet you feel my expressions of caching tolerance and "to each his own" thinking are somehow a direct attack against your own agenda, then that is your business, not mine.

 

If you have a specific problem with something particular I have stated about my point of view, then let’s hear it. I have no objection to open-mindedly considering your honest criticisms of my thinking. If you can convince me to shed an erroneous viewpoint in exchange for something more reasonable that I haven’t previously considered, I welcome the help.

 

If you’re just feeling vaguely defensive or insecure after reading my expression of my own viewpoint, however, then maybe the ambiguity lies not between the two of us, but within your own subconscious uncertainty. It's really none of my business – other than to the extent you keep trying to make it my business.

 

Again: My only purpose in posting that post was to rebut your earlier claim that I am "anti-creativity." You now seem to have dropped that charge while also admitting that I have made my true position quite clear. Anyone reading our posts can therefore observe any opinion differences they may perceive between us and then make up their own minds with whom to agree. I therefore see nothing left to fight about.

 

The last thing I am trying to do is a pick a fight. On the contrary, I'm trying to better understand this ongoing tiff that never seems to yield any progress in this forum. When you put your viewpoint out on creativity, I could really find very little to disagree with. I'm thinking to myself, this doesn't even appear to be the other side of the debate to me and it is not far off my own viewpoint in almost every respect. It got me thinking about why after over a thousand posts in here, why progress is so hard to come by. You mentioned earlier that perhaps the result is some better understanding not a win or a lose when it comes to these discussions. I'm being to wonder at some point, we all don't lose when the attempt to understand each other ceases.

 

That is really all that was on my mind, at what point do we stop listening to each other and engage in a food fight as TG so eloquently described it. I said I was bored like two pages ago when you, Snoogans, Isbell, Mushtang, et al started to focus so intently on the minute details of my personal definition of a numbers hider. That level of a pack "discussion" is really never going to lead anywhere and at some point greater understanding takes a back seat to trying to get one over on the other poster. I usually don't like to participate when it gets to this stage of the discussion for a variety of reasons but mostly, I don't think much mutual understanding or even benefit is realized. I guess the only reason I am still here two pages later is to try to understand why things go so south sometimes.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Team GeoBlast