Terrible cache hiders...

[+tozainamboku]

But you say that when they copy a cache it becomes lame. So which is it? Does a cache have to be 100% orginal to not be lame? We are not all creative geniuses. We can not all be Leonardo... If you owned a art supply store would would refuse to sell paint and canvass to a hobbyist because they couldn't paint to your standards? So why ask Groundspeak to stop listing caches of peoples whose hides don't meet your standards?

 

And that is why once again I defer to Neos2's list of attributes every cache should meet at least one of. I in no way think any cache which isn't a work of art is lame, and there is more to the experience of the find than just the cache itself. Besides the container there is also at least the location, perhaps the puzzle, the way to get there, and much more. There are numerous aspects of the experience which can make a cache good if not great, and no one says every one has to be great. Heck I'll even allow that there is room on the site for some of those more "worthless" ones as well. While some people say I'm a cache snob and that I have impossibly high standards, some parts of that list have nothing to do at all with ones ability to make a puzzle or an artistic camo. I don't think every hide should take 50 hours for someone to devise, create, and hide but I do think it should take some basic thought beyond buying a film can at a store, stuffing the receipt inside and throwing it in the bushes before getting in your car and driving off. If a cache takes less than one minute from conception to completion that is a sign it isn't going to provide much joy to the finder. I can't say that everyone will hate it because while we don't have any here to interview I am sure a few people just love getting their numbers up so much that they are happy to find any and every cache, but the vast majority will not be happy with it I'm sure, especially if they drove an hour just to get it. I know I've felt much stupider and disappointed for wasting far less time for an hour to drive to a cache which ended up being "lame".

 

I think we all need some kind of balance here. I might be biased but I don't think us cache snobs are asking the average cacher for a heck of a lot here if you take a look at that list and realize how easy it is to fit at least one of those points. In return I think the cache egalitarians need to take a step back and stop ganging up on us for merely suggesting all caches are created equal. Continuing to use excuses like "not everyone is amazing or creative" or "a lot of people LIKE film-can-thrown-out-the-window caches" or just feeling plain old moralistic disgust at cache snobbery is not being fair to the other side's arguement. While I know it is important to be respectful of all cachers and not be "snobs" at the same time we can't say all caches are equally good and important in the name of maintaining that respect. Nobody says respect and logic can't co-exist.

Are you suggesting that Neo2's list be made part of the guidelines and caches not be approve if they don't have at least one of those attributes or are you simply putting this list forward to suggest what hiders should consider when placing a cache? I ask because it is not clear.

 

Is a cache that has one or more of these attributes better? Well, it is certainly better for some cachers and it wouldn't hurt if cache hiders attempted to hide caches with one or more of these attributes. But I see no reason to require that a cache must have

*have a pretty view

*offer a nice walk/hike

*tell a good backstory

*show me something historic/unusual

*be cleverly hidden

*be easy to find

*have a creative container

And certainly I don't see how one could reasonably expect reviewers to check this before publishing a cache. Quite frankly, I find most of the so called 'lame' caches are easy to find anyway, so they already meet one of the attributes.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Lame caches came from somewhere even with no examples to copy.

 

Well, I think that it is the copying that makes the lameness.

 

One of the first micros I found was a film canister in a tree. I thought it was the coolest thing I had seen. The tenth time? Not so much.

 

A local cacher found a great trail leading to a secluded area along the river. That was really cool. Then it seemed like every cacher who went to find that cache placed one of their own along the same trail By the time the trail was saturated many of those caches had lost their appeal.

 

Someone places a really tricky hide. It's cool. All the copycat caches come along and it's "not so much".

 

I'm sure the first person to hide a cache under a lamppost in a Wal-mart parking lot amazed the locals with their creativity. Now...

Others, perhaps not DanOCan, claim that lameness will go away or at least be reduced if they "lead by example" and place caches they feel are worthy. The idea being that the people hiding lame caches will see these "better" caches and start to copy them. But you say that when they copy a cache it becomes lame. So which is it? Does a cache have to be 100% orginal to not be lame? We are not all creative geniuses. We can not all be Leonardo. Yet many like to paint. They may do a paint by numbers of the last supper or they may paint something original that looks crude or childish next to a work by a master. Perhaps you are expecting too much from the average cacher. If you owned a art supply store would would refuse to sell paint and canvass to a hobbyist because they couldn't paint to your standards? So why ask Groundspeak to stop listing caches of peoples whose hides don't meet your standards?

 

I'm not sure that this even deserves a response it so far off the mark.

[+Snoogans]

So.. I continue to wonder where all of these numbers hiders are...

I couldn't help myself...

 

I found my first official Snoogans' ODS film canister a few months ago and shockingly, the world didn't stop spinning on it's axis! Sure, it was a roadside hide, but it was in a pretty nice area.

That was 300+ regular sized caches containing 12,500+ micro caches.

 

That picture doesn't really show my best side and it hurts to look at right now..... SNIFF.

 

I like this side better. The camo has a slimming effect and it doesn't bring back unhappy memories.

 

Technically, I didn't hide them, so I guess I'm a numbers facilitator/proliferator.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Snoogans

[+TrailGators]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

[+Snoogans]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

[Mushtang]

I just figured since you knew so much about what the number hiders were currently up to, that you had inside information.

He does. Haven't you been reading his posts? He's been answering your question over and over.

Sigh.

 

Yes he gave a very informed and detailed account of why the numbers hiders never post here. Probably the best information that I've seen and that is why I asked the question. I was hoping he was speaking from first hand experience so I could have a friendly and productive conversation with someone that actually practices this, instead of a defender. Again, no offense but sometimes you grow a little weary of second hand information.

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

[Mr.Yuck]

I just figured since you knew so much about what the number hiders were currently up to, that you had inside information.

He does. Haven't you been reading his posts? He's been answering your question over and over.

Sigh.

 

Yes he gave a very informed and detailed account of why the numbers hiders never post here. Probably the best information that I've seen and that is why I asked the question. I was hoping he was speaking from first hand experience so I could have a friendly and productive conversation with someone that actually practices this, instead of a defender. Again, no offense but sometimes you grow a little weary of second hand information.

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

 

Yes!! Thanks for checking in. After all, I did gloss you one of the "Big Six".

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

 

That stinks. I assume that is going to be fixed? It'll cost a bundle I'm sure though.

 

Yes, I know you didn't place the ODS film Canister I found, but I'd like to think you touched it. It came from the since archived Houston Control pod in Hamilton, Ontario. So what happens now that I've found an ODS film can? I don't feel any different.

[+Team GeoBlast]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

 

That stinks. I assume that is going to be fixed? It'll cost a bundle I'm sure though.

 

Yes, I know you didn't place the ODS film Canister I found, but I'd like to think you touched it. It came from the since archived Houston Control pod in Hamilton, Ontario. So what happens now that I've found an ODS film can? I don't feel any different.

 

You don't feel the difference in your aura?

[+Team GeoBlast]

I just figured since you knew so much about what the number hiders were currently up to, that you had inside information.

He does. Haven't you been reading his posts? He's been answering your question over and over.

Sigh.

 

Yes he gave a very informed and detailed account of why the numbers hiders never post here. Probably the best information that I've seen and that is why I asked the question. I was hoping he was speaking from first hand experience so I could have a friendly and productive conversation with someone that actually practices this, instead of a defender. Again, no offense but sometimes you grow a little weary of second hand information.

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

 

Yes!! Thanks for checking in. After all, I did gloss you one of the "Big Six".

 

You definately called that. It's like Geckos on a drop of grape jelly.

[+Snoogans]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

 

That stinks. I assume that is going to be fixed? It'll cost a bundle I'm sure though.

 

Yes, I know you didn't place the ODS film Canister I found, but I'd like to think you touched it. It came from the since archived Houston Control pod in Hamilton, Ontario. So what happens now that I've found an ODS film can? I don't feel any different.

 

You don't feel the difference in your aura?

 

Exactly!

 

Urkeldude,

 

If the reports are real, you have already been infected and it doesn't matter if it's a dismal Christmas shopping season 'cuz Santa bit the dust 2.5 years ago when I launched all those caches into geocaching continuum.

 

When I finally get phase 2 of the project launched, I'm totally gunnin' for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairey.

[+Team GeoBlast]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

 

That stinks. I assume that is going to be fixed? It'll cost a bundle I'm sure though.

 

Yes, I know you didn't place the ODS film Canister I found, but I'd like to think you touched it. It came from the since archived Houston Control pod in Hamilton, Ontario. So what happens now that I've found an ODS film can? I don't feel any different.

 

You don't feel the difference in your aura?

 

Exactly!

 

Urkeldude,

 

If the reports are real, you have already been infected and it doesn't matter if it's a dismal Christmas shopping season 'cuz Santa bit the dust 2.5 years ago when I launched all those caches into geocaching continuum.

 

When I finally get phase 2 of the project launched, I'm totally gunnin' for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairey.

 

Not to mention the poor chilreden.

[+Team GeoBlast]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

 

That stinks. I assume that is going to be fixed? It'll cost a bundle I'm sure though.

 

Yes, I know you didn't place the ODS film Canister I found, but I'd like to think you touched it. It came from the since archived Houston Control pod in Hamilton, Ontario. So what happens now that I've found an ODS film can? I don't feel any different.

 

You don't feel the difference in your aura?

 

Exactly!

 

Urkeldude,

 

If the reports are real, you have already been infected and it doesn't matter if it's a dismal Christmas shopping season 'cuz Santa bit the dust 2.5 years ago when I launched all those caches into geocaching continuum.

 

When I finally get phase 2 of the project launched, I'm totally gunnin' for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairey.

 

Not sure bringing that thread back to the front of mind did you and the defenders any favors. I thought this was one of the most memorable posts. It's fairly prophetic. Here we go again.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+KBI]

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

Yes!! Thanks for checking in. After all, I did gloss you one of the "Big Six".

You definately called that. It's like Geckos on a drop of grape jelly.

To recap:

 

Team GeoBlast, while denying he has anything against hiders who place hides he thinks are so lame, demands to know why people place hides he thinks are so lame.

 

Many posters, including me, proceed to give perfectly reasonable, polite and consistent answers to Team GeoBlast’s question.

 

Leprechaun provides his own diplomatically-worded and perfectly accurate explanation based on his indisputable expertise in the matter.

 

Team GeoBlast blows off Lep’s posts and all the others, claiming he only wants to hear from the actual owners of said hides, whom he claims are non-existent in the forums.

 

Mushtang explains he is the owner of such a hide, and offers to answer Team GeoBlast’s questions.

 

Team GeoBlast, and his henchman TWU laughingly blow off Mushtang’s polite offer, with added personal insult just for flair.

 

My Question: When Team GeoBlast appeared to agree with the recent post about keeping an open mind in these discussions, what did he really mean?

[+Snoogans]

Exactly!

 

Urkeldude,

 

If the reports are real, you have already been infected and it doesn't matter if it's a dismal Christmas shopping season 'cuz Santa bit the dust 2.5 years ago when I launched all those caches into geocaching continuum.

 

When I finally get phase 2 of the project launched, I'm totally gunnin' for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairey.

 

Not sure bringing that thread back to the front of mind did you and the defenders any favors. I thought this was one of the most memorable posts. It's fairly prophetic. Here we go again.

 

That's funny. I'm not defending anything in this thread. Go back and read my posts. I'm just watching and interjecting a little humor when there's an opening.

 

I find it all knee slappingly hilarious, but especially that old thread. It's classic.

 

Edited November 16, 2008 by Snoogans

[+Team GeoBlast]

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

Yes!! Thanks for checking in. After all, I did gloss you one of the "Big Six".

You definately called that. It's like Geckos on a drop of grape jelly.

To recap:

 

Team GeoBlast, while denying he has anything against hiders who place hides he thinks are so lame, demands to know why people place hides he thinks are so lame.

 

Many posters, including me, proceed to give perfectly reasonable, polite and consistent answers to Team GeoBlast’s question.

 

Leprechaun provides his own diplomatically-worded and perfectly accurate explanation based on his indisputable expertise in the matter.

 

Team GeoBlast blows off Lep’s posts and all the others, claiming he only wants to hear from the actual owners of said hides, whom he claims are non-existent in the forums.

 

Mushtang explains he is the owner of such a hide, and offers to answer Team GeoBlast’s questions.

 

Team GeoBlast, and his henchman TWU laughingly blow off Mushtang’s polite offer, with added personal insult just for flair.

 

My Question: When Team GeoBlast appeared to agree with the recent post about keeping an open mind in these discussions, what did he really mean?

 

Amazing. Simply amazing. You've managed to totally twist around everything that I said in this thread into something that I don't even recognize. Please cite exactly where I used the word lame. Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves. TGB and his henchmen, now THAT is rich since all most of the defenders are now present.

 

What happened to this?

[+Team GeoBlast]

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

Yes!! Thanks for checking in. After all, I did gloss you one of the "Big Six".

You definately called that. It's like Geckos on a drop of grape jelly.

To recap:

 

Team GeoBlast, while denying he has anything against hiders who place hides he thinks are so lame, demands to know why people place hides he thinks are so lame.

 

Many posters, including me, proceed to give perfectly reasonable, polite and consistent answers to Team GeoBlast’s question.

 

Leprechaun provides his own diplomatically-worded and perfectly accurate explanation based on his indisputable expertise in the matter.

 

Team GeoBlast blows off Lep’s posts and all the others, claiming he only wants to hear from the actual owners of said hides, whom he claims are non-existent in the forums.

 

Mushtang explains he is the owner of such a hide, and offers to answer Team GeoBlast’s questions.

 

Team GeoBlast, and his henchman TWU laughingly blow off Mushtang’s polite offer, with added personal insult just for flair.

 

My Question: When Team GeoBlast appeared to agree with the recent post about keeping an open mind in these discussions, what did he really mean?

 

Amazing. Simply amazing. You've managed to totally twist around everything that I said in this thread into something that I don't even recognize. Please cite exactly where I used the word lame. Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves. TGB and his henchmen, now THAT is rich since all most of the defenders are now present.

 

What happened to this?

 

Or this

 

Now that most of the defenders are present and the cycle is complete where we are done discussing Geocaching. The moderators will be by soon to close the thread. It's probably safe to say that we are done learning...right?

[+TrailGators]

 

Caption: The GPS said that the lamp post was still another 50 feet away....

 

OUCH!

 

That stinks. I assume that is going to be fixed? It'll cost a bundle I'm sure though.

 

Yes, I know you didn't place the ODS film Canister I found, but I'd like to think you touched it. It came from the since archived Houston Control pod in Hamilton, Ontario. So what happens now that I've found an ODS film can? I don't feel any different.

 

You don't feel the difference in your aura?

 

Exactly!

 

Urkeldude,

 

If the reports are real, you have already been infected and it doesn't matter if it's a dismal Christmas shopping season 'cuz Santa bit the dust 2.5 years ago when I launched all those caches into geocaching continuum.

 

When I finally get phase 2 of the project launched, I'm totally gunnin' for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairey.

 

Not sure bringing that thread back to the front of mind did you and the defenders any favors. I thought this was one of the most memorable posts. It's fairly prophetic. Here we go again.

That was a great post and a great book. I do think that some people often misread questioners as being in the parent when they are really in the adult. If they realized this then they wouldn't need to launch defiant child-like insulting comments back at the person who is really asking adult questions. Anyhow, once that behavior starts everyone becomes a child and a food fight breaks out until the parental moderator shows up and scolds all the children or sends some children to their rooms for three days. So I will remain in the adult because I do not want to go to my room. I think TGB has done a good job of staying in the adult as well. I never took him as being in the parent. So can we all be adults and discuss ways to make the game more fun for the child in each of us?

[+KBI]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang’s polite offer? I’m just curious to hear your justification.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang’s polite offer? I’m just curious to hear your justification.

 

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

 

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said, the sun is up now in the islands and I'm going to go out and maintain one of my hides, which happens to be located in a stellar location that you need to have an extraordinary amount of fun to reach. While I appreciate the conversation (or at least the front end) I gotta go practice what I preach.

[Mushtang]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

 

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said, the sun is up now in the islands and I'm going to go out and maintain one of my hides, which happens to be located in a stellar location that you need to have an extraordinary amount of fun to reach. While I appreciate the conversation (or at least the front end) I gotta go practice what I preach.

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

[+Snoogans]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

 

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said, the sun is up now in the islands and I'm going to go out and maintain one of my hides, which happens to be located in a stellar location that you need to have an extraordinary amount of fun to reach. While I appreciate the conversation (or at least the front end) I gotta go practice what I preach.

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

 

I decided to practice what I preach. I have 2 now. Is that enough?

[+KBI]

I have one lamp post hide. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of people that own lamp post caches?

Yes!! Thanks for checking in. After all, I did gloss you one of the "Big Six".

You definately called that. It's like Geckos on a drop of grape jelly.

To recap:

 

Team GeoBlast, while denying he has anything against hiders who place hides he thinks are so lame, demands to know why people place hides he thinks are so lame.

 

Many posters, including me, proceed to give perfectly reasonable, polite and consistent answers to Team GeoBlast’s question.

 

Leprechaun provides his own diplomatically-worded and perfectly accurate explanation based on his indisputable expertise in the matter.

 

Team GeoBlast blows off Lep’s posts and all the others, claiming he only wants to hear from the actual owners of said hides, whom he claims are non-existent in the forums.

 

Mushtang explains he is the owner of such a hide, and offers to answer Team GeoBlast’s questions.

 

Team GeoBlast, and his henchman TWU laughingly blow off Mushtang’s polite offer, with added personal insult just for flair.

 

My Question: When Team GeoBlast appeared to agree with the recent post about keeping an open mind in these discussions, what did he really mean?

 

Amazing. Simply amazing. You've managed to totally twist around everything that I said in this thread into something that I don't even recognize. Please cite exactly where I used the word lame.

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said ...

Arguing definitions is a dodge.

 

I’ll leave it to others to judge whether my recap is accurate; whether I’ve twisted anyone’s meaning in my recap; or whether the word "lame" is adequately synonymous with the descriptions you’ve been posting.

Edited November 16, 2008 by KBI

[+Star*Hopper]

I've been following along, off & on....and this perhaps would have fit in better early on in the exchange. But I held off for a reason.

 

I'll readily admit to not having read every post in this thread -- I tend to skip ahead when I start seeing the "same ol' same ol' " -- but just skimming thru, have seen the many points, both good & bad, agreeable & not, that've been made thruout. And of course have seen much the same before, in other threads, many times.

 

There are however a couple of points I really can't recall seeing delved into here or elsewhere, & a couple others which are touched by my own philosophy - so I'd like to slip 'em in here for consideration, whether y'all agree or not.

 

#1 - Ain't no type of cache gonna please everybody, every time. You can judge each & any according to your own standards - but we can't set a standard to be followed by all. Of course, all that's been said already in one way or another, just sayin' it again because I believe that's the way it is. It's more of a set-up for what follows.

 

#2 - In these 'quest for the all-perfect cache' conversations, debates, battles -- call 'em what you will -- I've seen little consideration for caches that are placed FOR, and coincidentally BY in some cases, those with lesser physical abilities. Guys, I've been a jock nearly all my life, & used to run & I'm not talking jogging, over 50 miles a week, easy. I flat loved to run! But a long chain of events starting with a bad auto accident, left me today where I have a bit of a hard time making it to the mailbox across the road & back. Plus, I'm getting into my 'golden years' now. (dadgum....first time I've said that!) So....as much as I'd love to set out 40mm ammo cans full of gold & precious jewels, near some picturesque mountain peak setting in the middle of "Nothing-But-Great-Memorysville" ... the long & short of it is, I simply can't. Financially nor physically. But I like this game. I play it slow & easy; I ain't great, but I do the best I can. And one thing I try to do is place hides with some thought behind them, even if not genius thought, every time. I place hides that generally are easy to get to, AND/OR easy finds, and some that are harder - to provide for both the number-wanters and the challenge-enjoyers. I also place some hides that are pretty evil, for them who like those. Some of you might call all that 'lame' - ...but I think of it more as, so everybody can play the game. If it were to be defined, I'd say my strategy is to provide variety, with what I have or can make. As they say, variety is the spice of life. Maybe I can't set out the Golden Pot of Gold, but at least I can give that -- a li'l something for every ability. And nothing says you MUST go after my hides -- your desire to 'clean the map' is your choice....whatever feeds it.

 

#3 - I've far less experience than many of you - my 'numbers' are low, & always will be. It's a much more casual thing for me than a lot of you. So, while I haven't seen many "great" caches - I have seen appreciable numbers of 'em that started out as such. And with only a couple of exceptions, their contents' descriptions wouldn't fit nicely in a family-oriented discussion. The thing is, every one of 'em was made the way they ARE, by geocachers. IE nothin' but nothin' to do with the cache owner & what effort, thought or expense he/she originally put into it. And I'd hazard that you've seen 'em too. I just find it ironic that geocachers will come in here & gripe about cache contents - when 99/100 times it's geocachers who've turned the treasure trove into a trash pit in the first place.

 

Further on that - I've seen much mention in here by many who apparently not only expects the CO to stock it with treasures, but after the treasure's stolen (and there's really no other word for it) - expects him/her to RE-stock it, and with more treasure, and continuously! That's just ludicrous - and there's really no other word for that, either! At some point, shouldn't we allow the benefactor to consider that he's "learned his lesson"? Do we really expect them to keep on & on & on turning the other cheek? Get real!!

 

#4 - The other thing -- and I don't recall ever seeing this aspect mentioned. Think of what you consider the more perfect of caches you've found.....not just THE one, but all the ones that really "fit your bill". Now, take away all the others you've found, that did not meet that criteria. All "the numbers" that came with them, too. What would you be left with? I'd guess, far FAR less of the geocaching experience you wear now. And if they all had to meet your criteria, I'd also hazard a guess you wouldn't have much of a geocaching future to look forward to.

 

That's it. Variety makes it the game/hobby/sport/pasttime it is. If you didn't like the state of things, would you still be doing it? Appreciate 'em all, for without them, what would you have left? Got golf?

 

Clear skies!

~S*H

[+TrailGators]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

 

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said, the sun is up now in the islands and I'm going to go out and maintain one of my hides, which happens to be located in a stellar location that you need to have an extraordinary amount of fun to reach. While I appreciate the conversation (or at least the front end) I gotta go practice what I preach.

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

TGB is out maintaining a cache right now, but I'm sure that he would agree with me, that it depends. It depends on the finder and on the cache. I think you guys know many of the factors that can make a cache more fun.

[+KBI]

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

I decided to practice what I preach. I have 2 now. Is that enough?

I for one can’t wait to hear what the magic number is. In order to be granted proper permission to participate in TGB’s discussion, it might actually be fun to place a series of my own lame-o hides, and call them ...

 

"Team GeoBlast Contractual Obligation Lamp Post Caches."

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

I don't ever pay attention. I just skim threads for pictures that Snoogans posts.

 

- Elle

[Mushtang]

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

I decided to practice what I preach. I have 2 now. Is that enough?

I for one can't wait to hear what the magic number is. In order to be granted proper permission to participate in TGB's discussion, it might actually be fun to place a series of my own lame-o hides, and call them ...

 

"Team GeoBlast Contractual Obligation Lamp Post Caches."

According to TWU at the most it's 15. So... more than 1, less than 16?

Edited November 16, 2008 by Mushtang

[+KBI]

According to TWU at the most it's 15. So... more than 1, less than 16?

Possibly, but I'm not so sure TWU has authorization to speak for TGB:

 

Team GeoBlast, and his henchman TWU laughingly blow off Mushtang’s polite offer, with added personal insult just for flair ...

TGB and his henchmen, now THAT is rich ...

Edited November 16, 2008 by KBI

[+KBI]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang’s polite offer? I’m just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

... and you know this how?

[+tozainamboku]

I am still a bit confused about this thread. Rev Mike's original post was about certain cache hides that he felt showed bad judgment on the part of the hider. Some were obvious like bad coordinates due to carelessness or caches on private property without permission. Others were more of based on Rev Mike's personal preferences, too many lamppost hides in fast-food restaurants, foolishes ALRs, etc. He says that he knows in advance that some hiders will hide caches he doesn't want to spend time finding so he ignores anything by those hiders.

 

Some where along the way this thread changed topics to people asking what motivates people to hide terrible caches. This assumes that we have some agreement on what is a terrible cache. Most of what has been suggested is nothing but a matter of personal preference. Why is it that some people have a hard time understand that there are people who enjoy and perhaps even prefer a lamppost micro to an ammo can in the woods? The evidence is clear everyday in the caches that are published and logged on Geocaching.com. Yet people seem to feel that everyone must have the same opinion they have of lamppost caches - that they are lame.

 

ICE CREAM ANALOGY WARNING!!!!

 

Some people prefer Ben and Jerry's and will ignore other brands of ice cream. The hold their noses as they pass the generic store brand which they consider lame. Yet the store continues to sell the generic brand because there are those that buy it. Yes one reason is price. But similarly, your typical lamppost hide is quick and easy to find, and rarely is this cache muggled. Finders see one and know they won't be stumped and get a DNF. Numbers cachers rely on these to find many caches in one day. That might not appeal to you, just as an ice cream eating contest may not appeal to you. But you realize that while you are satisfied by your small scoop of ice cream for dessert, there are others who eat as much as can till they get sick.

 

IMO, the threads deteriorate when they change from something like Kit Fox's thread on recipe for fun, to ones that assume there is agreement on lameness and start suggesting ways to make/encourage hiders to "improve" their hides. If I wrongly accused anyone of promoting a ban on certain caches, I apologize. But it is difficult to tell sometime what the reason for these post are when they start with a premise that everyone wants fewer "lame" caches. If you find few post from people who outright say "place more lamppost caches", it is because these people are out hiding and finding lamppost caches and are not spending time in the forums where people engage in the obviously lame activity of debating lame caches and what to do about them.

Edited November 16, 2008 by tozainamboku

[BCProspectors]

I am tired of trying to go drop a couple of travel bugs (that I have been holding on to for longer than I like) and going to the nearest cache that claims to be a regular just to find that is smaller than my GPS.

Try to look for other hints in the description that say it might not be suitable for trading items.

Edited November 16, 2008 by BCProspectors

[Mr.Yuck]

According to TWU at the most it's 15. So... more than 1, less than 16?

Possibly, but I'm not so sure TWU has authorization to speak for TGB:

 

Team GeoBlast, and his henchman TWU laughingly blow off Mushtang’s polite offer, with added personal insult just for flair ...

TGB and his henchmen, now THAT is rich ...

 

I have no idea what 1/3 of the big six is talking about!! I said the Geddy fan was qualified to speak on behalf of LPC hiders. And my boss TGB even said it was ok.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang’s polite offer? I’m just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

... and you know this how?

 

a) he said he had one lamp post hide.

he posts regularly here and I read what he writes sometimes.

c) he is a defender, not a participant.

 

I didn't mean to run out on you for six hours whilst I did my cache maintenance but can you let me know if you think we are still making any progress here? Maybe it is me, but I kinda feel like we are digressing and our time would be better spent planning our next geocache hide or something else more beneficial to the Geocaching Community as a whole.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

 

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said, the sun is up now in the islands and I'm going to go out and maintain one of my hides, which happens to be located in a stellar location that you need to have an extraordinary amount of fun to reach. While I appreciate the conversation (or at least the front end) I gotta go practice what I preach.

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

TGB is out maintaining a cache right now, but I'm sure that he would agree with me, that it depends. It depends on the finder and on the cache. I think you guys know many of the factors that can make a cache more fun.

 

Thanks for filling in for me. No problems with this. I spent the day here, TG, you've got to get out here sometime. I know you'd love it. I'll even take you to visit our one LPC if you get homesick.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

 

Besides, if all of our opinions (me, you, and Mush) on this subject are not known by now, nobody is paying attention. Which sadly is quite possibly the case at this juncture in this thread.

 

So instead of hanging out and watching you guys twist around everything I've said, the sun is up now in the islands and I'm going to go out and maintain one of my hides, which happens to be located in a stellar location that you need to have an extraordinary amount of fun to reach. While I appreciate the conversation (or at least the front end) I gotta go practice what I preach.

When you get back I'd be happy to know how many LPCs it takes to become a "terrible hider" in your opinion.

 

Earlier you were saying that those without LPC hides weren't worthy to defend them. Now it seems that you have to own more than one in order to have a valid opinion.

 

So how many does it take?

 

I decided to practice what I preach. I have 2 now. Is that enough?

 

No, keep going. I'll let you know when you have enough.

[Mushtang]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

... and you know this how?

a) he said he had one lamp post hide.

And you said (twice) that I didn't place the TYPE of hide we were discussing, not the quantity of hides. I have one LPC, can I participate in your discussion or not?

 

If not, please let us know how many LPCs a hider must have before you think it's okay for him to defend them.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

... and you know this how?

a) he said he had one lamp post hide.

And you said (twice) that I didn't place the TYPE of hide we were discussing, not the quantity of hides. I have one LPC, can I participate in your discussion or not?

 

If not, please let us know how many LPCs a hider must have before you think it's okay for him to defend them.

 

We were talking about people that hide caches solely for the sake of numbers. I'm pretty certain that you don't do that, correct? It would be nice, for once, to speak to someone who actually does this instead of their self appointed body guards. If that is too much to ask just say so.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[Mushtang]

Forgive me for wanting to speak with someone who actually places the type of hide we were discussing, instead of someone who defends it but claims they don't do it themselves.

Do you reeeeally want to speak to such a person? If so, then why did you blow off Mushtang's polite offer? I'm just curious to hear your justification.

C'mon. You know why. Mush is not a "terrible hider" (title of this thread, not my description) nor does he own anything close to the type of cache(s) we were discussing.

... and you know this how?

a) he said he had one lamp post hide.

And you said (twice) that I didn't place the TYPE of hide we were discussing, not the quantity of hides. I have one LPC, can I participate in your discussion or not?

 

If not, please let us know how many LPCs a hider must have before you think it's okay for him to defend them.

We were talking about people that hide caches solely for the sake of numbers. I'm pretty certain that you don't do that, correct? It would be nice, for once, to speak to someone who actually does this instead of their self appointed body guards. If that is too much to ask just say so.

I hid that cache because I wanted to add one number to my hide count, and to give an easy find for everyone in the area to find in order to increase their find count.

 

Now I can discuss these caches, correct?

[+KBI]

.... can you let me know if you think we are still making any progress here?

Please don't stop. I'm enjoying this way too much, and the suspense is killing me. I can't wait to see how this plays out between you and Mushtang.

[+Team GeoBlast]

.... can you let me know if you think we are still making any progress here?

Please don't stop. I'm enjoying this way too much, and the suspense is killing me. I can't wait to see how this plays out between you and Mushtang.

 

Quite frankly, I am getting pretty darn bored with this whole thing. Have your henchmen call my henchmen, okay?

[Clan Riffster]

Caption: God hates film canisters (SUV meet tree)

Although, it would appear that the power of the Snoogs won out in the end.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Clan Riffster

[Mushtang]

.... can you let me know if you think we are still making any progress here?

Please don't stop. I'm enjoying this way too much, and the suspense is killing me. I can't wait to see how this plays out between you and Mushtang.

Quite frankly, I am getting pretty darn bored with this whole thing. Have your henchmen call my henchmen, okay?

What? You're making wild claims and then not sticking around to back them up????

 

That seems so unlike you.

[+TrailGators]

Quite frankly, I am getting pretty darn bored with this whole thing.

Me too...

Edited November 17, 2008 by TrailGators

[+SixDogTeam]

1.If I hide a full size cache full of goodies in a lush forest next to a waterfall, which I've done, I don't get nearly as many smilies as I get if I hide a film can under a lamp skirt at Wal-Mart, which I've done. No matter how much people claim they hate them--they are very popular. Cachers vote with their logs.

 

2. Some micro spews take a lot of hard work and preparation and carefully adhere to high standards:

 

A. Never throw the film can out the window if you're not going at least 65MPH, never look where it landed.

B. Always have the can weighted down with a marble or rock, for maximum throw distance.

C. Never use a GPSr--just estimate coords using Google-earth, based on where you think it might have landed.

D. Don't toss the can unless you have first scouted the area at slow speed looking for the following:

 

(1) low lying areas that will hold water, mud, ice etc.

(2) Ditches filled with Brambles, thicker the better

(3) road side dump areas-- trash heaps, hobo camps--The more glass and metal the better.

(4) Dense tree canopy if you can reach it by the toss, so GPSr will be useless anyway.

E. Perforate the film can with fake bite marks to facilitate drainage, or get the cat to do it for you by putting liver in the can.

F. Never, ever put the log in a baggy.

 

There are more rules, but you get the idea. So don't take it for granted that that film can stuck on a stop sign was not carefully thought out, for maximun geocaching FUN, FUN, FUN.

[Mushtang]

1.If I hide a full size cache full of goodies in a lush forest next to a waterfall, which I've done, I don't get nearly as many smilies as I get if I hide a film can under a lamp skirt at Wal-Mart, which I've done. No matter how much people claim they hate them--they are very popular. Cachers vote with their logs.

 

2. Some micro spews take a lot of hard work and preparation and carefully adhere to high standards:

 

A. Never throw the film can out the window if you're not going at least 65MPH, never look where it landed.

B. Always have the can weighted down with a marble or rock, for maximum throw distance.

C. Never use a GPSr--just estimate coords using Google-earth, based on where you think it might have landed.

D. Don't toss the can unless you have first scouted the area at slow speed looking for the following:

 

(1) low lying areas that will hold water, mud, ice etc.

(2) Ditches filled with Brambles, thicker the better

(3) road side dump areas-- trash heaps, hobo camps--The more glass and metal the better.

(4) Dense tree canopy if you can reach it by the toss, so GPSr will be useless anyway.

E. Perforate the film can with fake bite marks to facilitate drainage, or get the cat to do it for you by putting liver in the can.

F. Never, ever put the log in a baggy.

 

There are more rules, but you get the idea. So don't take it for granted that that film can stuck on a stop sign was not carefully thought out, for maximun geocaching FUN, FUN, FUN.

 

It looks like you own at least 50 micro caches, and maybe as many as 100, so I guess I'll have to take your word for it on how you hide them.

[janx]

 

I've always said that every cache ought to have at least one redeeming quality:

 

*have a pretty view

*offer a nice walk/hike

*tell a good backstory

*show me something historic/unusual

*be cleverly hidden

*be easy to find

*have a creative container

 

I like this list. It seems like a reasonable checklist to test a cache's quality. Certainly for a placer, considering to do a cache.

[+KBI]

I've always said that every cache ought to have at least one redeeming quality:

 

*have a pretty view

*offer a nice walk/hike

*tell a good backstory

*show me something historic/unusual

*be cleverly hidden

*be easy to find

*have a creative container

I like this list. It seems like a reasonable checklist to test a cache's quality. Certainly for a placer, considering to do a cache.

Even if the only criteria the cache achieves is the next-to-last one on that list? If so, I think there are many, many cachers who would agree with you – and I think that is a perfectly valid preference.

 

Some people demand more. Many here seem to be of the opinion that "easy to find" is never enough, in itself, to make a cache hide worthy of their attention.

 

Some, OTOH, don't even need that much. My personal opinion is that none of those criteria is absolutely necessary. Each of them is wonderful to have, of course, and most caches seem to achieve at least one, but I have the ability to enjoy caching without any of those things being present. I am mentally defective in that regard.

[+TrailGators]

I've always said that every cache ought to have at least one redeeming quality:

 

*have a pretty view

*offer a nice walk/hike

*tell a good backstory

*show me something historic/unusual

*be cleverly hidden

*be easy to find

*have a creative container

I like this list. It seems like a reasonable checklist to test a cache's quality. Certainly for a placer, considering to do a cache.

Even if the only criteria the cache achieves is the next-to-last one on that list? If so, I think there are many, many cachers who would agree with you – and I think that is a perfectly valid preference.

 

Some people demand more. Many here seem to be of the opinion that "easy to find" is never enough, in itself, to make a cache hide worthy of their attention.

 

Some, OTOH, don't even need that much. My personal opinion is that none of those criteria is absolutely necessary. Each of them is wonderful to have, of course, and most caches seem to achieve at least one, but I have the ability to enjoy caching without any of those things being present. I am mentally defective in that regard.

I wouldn't have put easy to find on that list. We already have difficulty rating to sort that out if that is what you prefer.

 

I prefer having at least one of these four things:

*have a pretty view

*offer a nice walk/hike

*show me something historic/unusual

*be cleverly hidden

I guess I am mentally defective in that I get bored too easily. So having at least one of those four things keeps things interesting for me.

[+Bronzegoat]

I think we should have a for crybabies only attribute then maybe all of these complainers could just do those caches.