Terrible cache hiders...

[+TrailGators]

I think we should have a for crybabies only attribute then maybe all of these complainers could just do those caches.

I suggest that you read the forum guidelines.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I think we should have a for crybabies only attribute then maybe all of these complainers could just do those caches.

 

Bronzegoat, are you a numbers hider?

[+KBI]

What is a "numbers hider?"

[+Bronzegoat]

I think we should have a for crybabies only attribute then maybe all of these complainers could just do those caches.

 

Bronzegoat, are you a numbers hider?

You can look at my profile and probably already have. I have 1,606 finds and 112 hides with a few of those having been archived (hmm, roughly the same find to hide percentage as well someone else). I probably have a total of three guardrail hides (that I can recall) and those were hidden with a purpose. I live in a very rural area in mountainous southwest Virginia and like most hiders in the area have caches along rural scenic roadways as well as up rough to very rough mountain roads. You can judge for yourself or check with people who have found my caches what type of hides they are. I can't fairly judge my own hides but I have found that most people (not all) tend to hide caches similar to the ones that they found when they first started caching (at least initially).

 

I have only used the forum a very few times and have read the guidelines but do not (perhaps out of ignorance) know which point you are referring to. I neither defend or attack individual hiders or seekers of any type because I think it is a person's own business how they decide to participate in a hobby. I just like many others get tired of people complaining about caching, hiding, seeking, numbers, quality of hides, contents of caches and everything else caching or cache related instead of just enjoying what has to be the greatest of hobbies and believe me I have had a lot of hobbies.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I probably have a total of three guardrail hides (that I can recall) and those were hidden with a purpose.

 

Okay, that answers my question. Thank-you for your contribution to the game. For the record, you are not a numbers hider.

[+KBI]

Okay, that answers my question. Thank-you for your contribution to the game. For the record, you are not a numbers hider.

"For the record." That sounds very official. What record?

 

What is your criteria? What, exactly, is a "numbers hider?"

[+Team GeoBlast]

Okay, that answers my question. Thank-you for your contribution to the game. For the record, you are not a numbers hider.

"For the record." That sounds very official. What record?

 

What is your criteria? What, exactly, is a "numbers hider?"

 

KBI,

 

I will answer this one question for you. A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

 

If you want to me to respond to you further, you are going to need to convince me you are not just trolling. That you are not trying to twist this post into being about me and away from the subject at hand. I think if you will take the time to review your own posting, you asked me to do the same thing a few days ago.

 

I currently see no evidence of you even remotely attempting to engage in an intelligent productive conversation. This is boring to me and to everyone reading this.

 

Thank-you,

 

TGB

[+ThePachecos]

I actually have seen a lot more people visit an area if there are significant hides.. With gas prices the way they are now I look to areas where I can see as many caches as possible. I know numbers aren't the only reason to cache but I definitely like to see my numbers increase. I love all of the cache's I do some for the hiking and the driveby's because they are always hidden in some interesting places and some just because I get to go out for a nice little drive with the wifey.

[+tozainamboku]

Okay, that answers my question. Thank-you for your contribution to the game. For the record, you are not a numbers hider.

"For the record." That sounds very official. What record?

 

What is your criteria? What, exactly, is a "numbers hider?"

 

KBI,

 

I will answer this one question for you. A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

 

If you want to me to respond to you further, you are going to need to convince me you are not just trolling. That you are not trying to twist this post into being about me and away from the subject at hand. I think if you will take the time to review your own posting, you asked me to do the same thing a few days ago.

 

I currently see no evidence of you even remotely attempting to engage in an intelligent productive conversation. This is boring to me and to everyone reading this.

 

Thank-you,

 

TGB

What do you mean by inflating find counts? If some one hide 100 micro they've hidden 100 micros. It's not as if the micro hiders are submitting bogus cache reports for caches they never hid.

 

I presume that what you would really like is for all cache hiders to put a minimum amount of effort into hiding their caches. Perhaps Neos2's list would be better if it said that cache hiders should do one or more of the following when hiding a cache:

 

* spend more than $10 on the cache container and swag

* spend more that 1/2 day camouflaging your cache

* hike more than one mile to the cache site

* spend more than 1/2 day doing research to find a location that is historic

* spend more than 1 hour getting permission for your hide

* spend more than 10 minutes getting coordinates to ensure they are accurate

* spend more than 30 minutes writing up the cache page

 

At least then you are asking for actual effort from the hider instead of some subjective attribute of a cache that can't really be measured. The problem with any checklist is that it is going to be voluntary; there is no way you could expect cache reviewers to enforce it. Only the cache hider knows whether or not they spent the effort on their cache.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I actually have seen a lot more people visit an area if there are significant hides.. With gas prices the way they are now I look to areas where I can see as many caches as possible. I know numbers aren't the only reason to cache but I definitely like to see my numbers increase. I love all of the cache's I do some for the hiking and the driveby's because they are always hidden in some interesting places and some just because I get to go out for a nice little drive with the wifey.

 

I hear you Panchecos. If an area, any area, is populated with well maintained hides that are placed for purpose, it's good for the game. It's more fun. It's very simple to most.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Okay, that answers my question. Thank-you for your contribution to the game. For the record, you are not a numbers hider.

"For the record." That sounds very official. What record?

 

What is your criteria? What, exactly, is a "numbers hider?"

 

KBI,

 

I will answer this one question for you. A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

 

If you want to me to respond to you further, you are going to need to convince me you are not just trolling. That you are not trying to twist this post into being about me and away from the subject at hand. I think if you will take the time to review your own posting, you asked me to do the same thing a few days ago.

 

I currently see no evidence of you even remotely attempting to engage in an intelligent productive conversation. This is boring to me and to everyone reading this.

 

Thank-you,

 

TGB

What do you mean by inflating find counts? If some one hide 100 micro they've hidden 100 micros. It's not as if the micro hiders are submitting bogus cache reports for caches they never hid.

 

I presume that what you would really like is for all cache hiders to put a minimum amount of effort into hiding their caches. Perhaps Neos2's list would be better if it said that cache hiders should do one or more of the following when hiding a cache:

 

* spend more than $10 on the cache container and swag

* spend more that 1/2 day camouflaging your cache

* hike more than one mile to the cache site

* spend more than 1/2 day doing research to find a location that is historic

* spend more than 1 hour getting permission for your hide

* spend more than 10 minutes getting coordinates to ensure they are accurate

* spend more than 30 minutes writing up the cache page

 

At least then you are asking for actual effort from the hider instead of some subjective attribute of a cache that can't really be measured. The problem with any checklist is that it is going to be voluntary; there is no way you could expect cache reviewers to enforce it. Only the cache hider knows whether or not they spent the effort on their cache.

 

Sorry, Toz. You'll need to call my henchmen.

[+Bronzegoat]

My personal opinion is that most cache hides are done with good intent. The problem is that our opinion of the hiders intent is subjective. The most important thing about any cache is simple maintenance. I would much rather go to a well maintained micro (not a lamp pole or guardrail cache but a well maintained micro) than an ammo can with a wet log sheet and moldy contents. Many are the times that I have posted a needs maintenance memo or mentioned it in a log or even gone to a location that I know for a fact the cache is missing. I have returned to the caches months later with a friend to only find the caches in the same condition. To me a bad hider is one who doesn't maintain his or her caches whether one or a thousand and one.

[+sbell111]

My personal opinion is that most cache hides are done with good intent. The problem is that our opinion of the hiders intent is subjective. The most important thing about any cache is simple maintenance. I would much rather go to a well maintained micro (not a lamp pole or guardrail cache but a well maintained micro) than an ammo can with a wet log sheet and moldy contents. Many are the times that I have posted a needs maintenance memo or mentioned it in a log or even gone to a location that I know for a fact the cache is missing. I have returned to the caches months later with a friend to only find the caches in the same condition. To me a bad hider is one who doesn't maintain his or her caches whether one or a thousand and one.

I'll take that one step further.

 

I'd rather go find a LPC in good condition then a full-sized cache-in-the-woods that is gross.

[+The Leprechauns]

A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

News flash: I hide *all* my caches for the purpose of inflating other people's find counts. Find five of my caches, inflate your count by five. Caches are hidden in order to be found. And, my urban "tourist" micros are found a whole lot more often than my bushwack to the ammo box caches.

 

If you are trying to define "numbers hider" as the type of person whose caches you will ignore (remember the thread topic?), then you'll need to be a bit more specific.

[Mr.Yuck]

Okay, that answers my question. Thank-you for your contribution to the game. For the record, you are not a numbers hider.

"For the record." That sounds very official. What record?

 

What is your criteria? What, exactly, is a "numbers hider?"

 

KBI,

 

I will answer this one question for you. A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

 

If you want to me to respond to you further, you are going to need to convince me you are not just trolling. That you are not trying to twist this post into being about me and away from the subject at hand. I think if you will take the time to review your own posting, you asked me to do the same thing a few days ago.

 

I currently see no evidence of you even remotely attempting to engage in an intelligent productive conversation. This is boring to me and to everyone reading this.

 

Thank-you,

 

TGB

What do you mean by inflating find counts? If some one hide 100 micro they've hidden 100 micros. It's not as if the micro hiders are submitting bogus cache reports for caches they never hid.

 

I presume that what you would really like is for all cache hiders to put a minimum amount of effort into hiding their caches. Perhaps Neos2's list would be better if it said that cache hiders should do one or more of the following when hiding a cache:

 

* spend more than $10 on the cache container and swag

* spend more that 1/2 day camouflaging your cache

* hike more than one mile to the cache site

* spend more than 1/2 day doing research to find a location that is historic

* spend more than 1 hour getting permission for your hide

* spend more than 10 minutes getting coordinates to ensure they are accurate

* spend more than 30 minutes writing up the cache page

 

At least then you are asking for actual effort from the hider instead of some subjective attribute of a cache that can't really be measured. The problem with any checklist is that it is going to be voluntary; there is no way you could expect cache reviewers to enforce it. Only the cache hider knows whether or not they spent the effort on their cache.

 

Sorry, Toz. You'll need to call my henchmen.

 

Henchman checking in here. Do your last 5 cache logs look like this? Then you might just be a "numbers hider".

 

November 11 by VVVVVV (396 found)

Quick find. TFTF SL

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 10 by WWWWW (215 found)

Easy-although I think I wrote the wrong date in log. Sorry. TFTH.

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 9 by XXXXX (335 found)

Quick grab this morning on the way over to ESL for hockey. Replaced the plastic bag holding the log with a spare we always carry. TFTC SL

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 8 by YYYYYY (100 found)

Quick grab while in the area running errands. TFTC

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 5 by ZZZZZ (280 found)

Another quick cache and dash in this area this afternoon. TFTF!!

[+RusticScout]

I am actually getting ready to place my first cache, and thanks to this forum, I have a pretty good idea of what NOT to do and what to do. I don't want to be a numbers person, I want my cache to be a little hard to find but not insane, with different types of containers that are not the usual that are looked for and some really good clues that take some thinking. I dont want mine to be a copy of someone elses either, but when I find a cache that was fun for me, I just try to incorporate that into my ideas for a cache.

 

My only concern is that I don't have the best GPS, so before I list my cache, I have found a few other people that will go out and find my cache and make sure that it isn't off by much. Not to mention borrowing two other GPS' to make sure I have decent numbers.

 

I don't want a crappy cache that no one will want to come and find. I want one where people will go, took me a couple times, but I finally found it.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I am actually getting ready to place my first cache, and thanks to this forum, I have a pretty good idea of what NOT to do and what to do. I don't want to be a numbers person, I want my cache to be a little hard to find but not insane, with different types of containers that are not the usual that are looked for and some really good clues that take some thinking. I dont want mine to be a copy of someone elses either, but when I find a cache that was fun for me, I just try to incorporate that into my ideas for a cache.

 

My only concern is that I don't have the best GPS, so before I list my cache, I have found a few other people that will go out and find my cache and make sure that it isn't off by much. Not to mention borrowing two other GPS' to make sure I have decent numbers.

 

I don't want a crappy cache that no one will want to come and find. I want one where people will go, took me a couple times, but I finally found it.

 

Rustic Scout,

 

Thank you for the effort and thought you are putting into your first hide! If everyone followed your lead, we would not being having this conversation right now.

 

As far as the coords go, don't automatically assume you have a bad GPS unless it is broken. If you are marking a waypoint with an unobstructed sky, most GPS are created pretty equal. The best way to make sure you have accurate coords is to take several readings and average them out. Some models will do this for you automatically if you leave it on the spot, if yours doesn't, try this:

 

Walk away 10 meters in each direction and return to take 10 readings or so. Go home and average all of those readings or if you get 4-5 that are the same, take that one. The true test is to return to the cache at another time and see how the coords work for you. Involving others is also helpful but later on you'll want your caching buddies to be hunters.

 

Feel free to email me with any questions.

 

TGB

[+Team GeoBlast]

A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

News flash: I hide *all* my caches for the purpose of inflating other people's find counts. Find five of my caches, inflate your count by five. Caches are hidden in order to be found. And, my urban "tourist" micros are found a whole lot more often than my bushwack to the ammo box caches.

 

If you are trying to define "numbers hider" as the type of person whose caches you will ignore (remember the thread topic?), then you'll need to be a bit more specific.

 

I define a numbers hider as a terrible cache hider therefore I am on topic. Can I ask you a question now? Is there any difference in these logs:

 

Log A:

 

Between the two of us we finished the hunt in something like 2 ½ hours. I would still be out there if I was doing this alone.

 

So many great stages to this cache. Any one of them would have made a fine standalone cache. Each stage presented a new and fresh look at geocaching. Needing a few special tools made it even more fun. I do not need much of a push to obtain a new toy. My guess is that we will get a chance to use them again.

 

The final stage was more like digging up bella lugosi’s grave and having him say “Good Evening”.

 

If you have not yet found this cache, why did you buy a GPS?

 

Log B: Number 23 of 40 today. TFTC. ]

 

If you are telling someone about Geocaching for the first time which log do you reference as an example?

Which log represents Geocaching in a light that you prefer?

Which log is going to be remembered by the seeker after 50 more finds?

 

For me, the difference is quite clear and the benefits to the game overall are not even in question. I'm not sure how you guys can twist this around to be a bad thing, but you do.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+tozainamboku]

Henchman checking in here. Do your last 5 cache logs look like this? Then you might just be a "numbers hider".

 

November 11 by VVVVVV (396 found)

Quick find. TFTF SL

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 10 by WWWWW (215 found)

Easy-although I think I wrote the wrong date in log. Sorry. TFTH.

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 9 by XXXXX (335 found)

Quick grab this morning on the way over to ESL for hockey. Replaced the plastic bag holding the log with a spare we always carry. TFTC SL

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 8 by YYYYYY (100 found)

Quick grab while in the area running errands. TFTC

[view this log on a separate page]

 

November 5 by ZZZZZ (280 found)

Another quick cache and dash in this area this afternoon. TFTF!!

So a numbers hider is someone who gets logs on their caches thanking them for an quick or easy find? I've gotten cookie cutter logs on some of my caches - and logs saying that it was a quick and easy find. I one case, I'm pretty sure the park ranger or volunteer who logged the cache drove to within 100 ft of it. Something that most people would not have been able to do. Guess I may be a numbers hider

 

I can't see what is wrong with hiding a cache for people to find. It is clear that many people enjoy the simplicity of finding a cache, and it doesn't matter whether it has any of Neos2's attributes. Some people do enjoy it more if it has the "Easy to find" attribute - because there are people who like finding a lot of caches. They may be into "numbers" and are competing with a friend or just to reach a personal goal so many quick and easy finds are good.

 

I understand that there are also people who prefer to find only a few caches. The number of caches they find is not important to them. They may enjoy a mental or physical challenge that finding a particular cache gives them, or they may enjoy some activity that is combined with finding the cache - visiting unique locations, learning about history or geology associated with a place, etc.

 

Perhaps there are two kinds of people who geocache. Some are like the people who only like hand made ice cream and will travel far to find an ice cream parlor that makes their own fresh ice cream. Other don't want to travel so far (or spend as much) to get their ice cream. So they'll eat the store brand from the grocery freeze that has so many preservatives that is has an expiration date sometime next year.

 

The point of OP was where there are hiders who hide caches that you don't like and how can you avoid these hides. That is a reasonable question. Perhaps calling these people terrible cache hiders is going overboard and is what set up this thread to become an attack on "numbers" hiders.

Edited November 19, 2008 by tozainamboku

[+Team GeoBlast]

My personal opinion is that most cache hides are done with good intent. The problem is that our opinion of the hiders intent is subjective. The most important thing about any cache is simple maintenance. I would much rather go to a well maintained micro (not a lamp pole or guardrail cache but a well maintained micro) than an ammo can with a wet log sheet and moldy contents. Many are the times that I have posted a needs maintenance memo or mentioned it in a log or even gone to a location that I know for a fact the cache is missing. I have returned to the caches months later with a friend to only find the caches in the same condition. To me a bad hider is one who doesn't maintain his or her caches whether one or a thousand and one.

 

Agree 100%. Earlier in this love fest we were talking about two bars for a Geocache. The first is a minimum standard that includes an appropriate container that is going to keep the elements out, maintenance of the container, consideration of safety for the seeker, an accurate terrain and difficulty rating, compliance with guidelines and so on.

 

In the second bar there is subjectivity and people feel very differently about what makes a cache a good cache. I personally have no expectations, only hope. My hope is that the hider can answer one question and be proud of the answer:

 

"Why am I bringing someone to this place?"

 

After checking your profile a little closer, I feel safe to say that your answer to this question is more than a number. I think that is a good thing and I thank you for that.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

The point of OP was where there are hiders who hide caches that you don't like and how can you avoid these hides. That is a reasonable question. Perhaps calling these people terrible cache hiders is going overboard and is what set up this thread to become an attack on "numbers" hiders.

 

Can we not call this an "attack"? This is just a discussion forum. I think those logs are priceless. Where else can you see someone intimate something like "Woohoo! This is so easy! It's like shooting fish in a barrell! And my score increases by one point for this! Awesome! Thanks a whole bunch!" with just two words and an acronym?

 

And no, Mr. T, you're not a numbers hider. That cache is in a busy parking lot, and has a 6 word cache description. Slightly longer than most of it's find logs.

 

I cannot deny some people like these caches, and I do actually agree that "terrible hiders" could have been a bit overboard. To me, the first thing I think of if I were to hear terrible hiders would be a long history of ignoring cache maintenance, often to the point of having caches involuntarily archived by the reviewers.

Edited November 19, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+RusticScout]

I am actually getting ready to place my first cache, and thanks to this forum, I have a pretty good idea of what NOT to do and what to do. I don't want to be a numbers person, I want my cache to be a little hard to find but not insane, with different types of containers that are not the usual that are looked for and some really good clues that take some thinking. I dont want mine to be a copy of someone elses either, but when I find a cache that was fun for me, I just try to incorporate that into my ideas for a cache.

 

My only concern is that I don't have the best GPS, so before I list my cache, I have found a few other people that will go out and find my cache and make sure that it isn't off by much. Not to mention borrowing two other GPS' to make sure I have decent numbers.

 

I don't want a crappy cache that no one will want to come and find. I want one where people will go, took me a couple times, but I finally found it.

 

Rustic Scout,

 

Thank you for the effort and thought you are putting into your first hide! If everyone followed your lead, we would not being having this conversation right now.

 

As far as the coords go, don't automatically assume you have a bad GPS unless it is broken. If you are marking a waypoint with an unobstructed sky, most GPS are created pretty equal. The best way to make sure you have accurate coords is to take several readings and average them out. Some models will do this for you automatically if you leave it on the spot, if yours doesn't, try this:

 

Walk away 10 meters in each direction and return to take 10 readings or so. Go home and average all of those readings or if you get 4-5 that are the same, take that one. The true test is to return to the cache at another time and see how the coords work for you. Involving others is also helpful but later on you'll want your caching buddies to be hunters.

 

Feel free to email me with any questions.

 

TGB

 

Thanks. I have to tell you that I have been waiting and waiting to post my first cache mainly because I don't want to have people complain about it. It can be a little intimidating to post a cache when you have never done it before. I am constantly seeing places that would make a great place for a cache, but I don't have all the right supplies first of all and second I just need to time to really get a good look at the area and see how it is during the day.

I have been creating waypoints and I am at 17 waypoints for each of my first caches. I wanted to get to 20 and then make a more acurate average. My GPS isn't that bad, it does however lose reception when there is to much tree cover. Hopefully this x-mas I might be getting a better GPS.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I am actually getting ready to place my first cache, and thanks to this forum, I have a pretty good idea of what NOT to do and what to do. I don't want to be a numbers person, I want my cache to be a little hard to find but not insane, with different types of containers that are not the usual that are looked for and some really good clues that take some thinking. I dont want mine to be a copy of someone elses either, but when I find a cache that was fun for me, I just try to incorporate that into my ideas for a cache.

 

My only concern is that I don't have the best GPS, so before I list my cache, I have found a few other people that will go out and find my cache and make sure that it isn't off by much. Not to mention borrowing two other GPS' to make sure I have decent numbers.

 

I don't want a crappy cache that no one will want to come and find. I want one where people will go, took me a couple times, but I finally found it.

 

Rustic Scout,

 

Thank you for the effort and thought you are putting into your first hide! If everyone followed your lead, we would not being having this conversation right now.

 

As far as the coords go, don't automatically assume you have a bad GPS unless it is broken. If you are marking a waypoint with an unobstructed sky, most GPS are created pretty equal. The best way to make sure you have accurate coords is to take several readings and average them out. Some models will do this for you automatically if you leave it on the spot, if yours doesn't, try this:

 

Walk away 10 meters in each direction and return to take 10 readings or so. Go home and average all of those readings or if you get 4-5 that are the same, take that one. The true test is to return to the cache at another time and see how the coords work for you. Involving others is also helpful but later on you'll want your caching buddies to be hunters.

 

Feel free to email me with any questions.

 

TGB

 

Thanks. I have to tell you that I have been waiting and waiting to post my first cache mainly because I don't want to have people complain about it. It can be a little intimidating to post a cache when you have never done it before. I am constantly seeing places that would make a great place for a cache, but I don't have all the right supplies first of all and second I just need to time to really get a good look at the area and see how it is during the day.

I have been creating waypoints and I am at 17 waypoints for each of my first caches. I wanted to get to 20 and then make a more acurate average. My GPS isn't that bad, it does however lose reception when there is to much tree cover. Hopefully this x-mas I might be getting a better GPS.

 

One thing you will learn here in the forums is that everyone has their own idea of caches that they like. Don't worry too much about people complaining about your cache, just do what you said you were going to do and pull the trigger. If someone complains, listen to what they have to say and judge for yourself if it makes sense for you. Nothing is permanent with a cache hide and you can make adjustments to if you think the feedback is valid.

[Mushtang]

My hope is that the hider can answer one question and be proud of the answer:

 

"Why am I bringing someone to this place?"

Why isn't "To find this cache" a good enough answer for you? Why does there HAVE to be some other reason at the cache location for a person to find the cache?

[+Snoogans]

My hope is that the hider can answer one question and be proud of the answer:

 

"Why am I bringing someone to this place?"

Why isn't "To find this cache" a good enough answer for you? Why does there HAVE to be some other reason at the cache location for a person to find the cache?

 

I was thinkin' the same thing. I'm interested to hear an unentitled honest answer.

 

<sound of crickets>

[+TrailGators]

A numbers hider is someone who hides caches with the sole or specific purpose of inflating find counts.

News flash: I hide *all* my caches for the purpose of inflating other people's find counts. Find five of my caches, inflate your count by five. Caches are hidden in order to be found. And, my urban "tourist" micros are found a whole lot more often than my bushwack to the ammo box caches.

 

If you are trying to define "numbers hider" as the type of person whose caches you will ignore (remember the thread topic?), then you'll need to be a bit more specific.

 

I define a numbers hider as a terrible cache hider therefore I am on topic. Can I ask you a question now? Is there any difference in these logs:

 

Log A:

 

Between the two of us we finished the hunt in something like 2 ½ hours. I would still be out there if I was doing this alone.

 

So many great stages to this cache. Any one of them would have made a fine standalone cache. Each stage presented a new and fresh look at geocaching. Needing a few special tools made it even more fun. I do not need much of a push to obtain a new toy. My guess is that we will get a chance to use them again.

 

The final stage was more like digging up bella lugosi’s grave and having him say “Good Evening”.

 

If you have not yet found this cache, why did you buy a GPS?

 

Log B: Number 23 of 40 today. TFTC. ]

 

If you are telling someone about Geocaching for the first time which log do you reference as an example?

Which log represents Geocaching in a light that you prefer?

Which log is going to be remembered by the seeker after 50 more finds?

 

For me, the difference is quite clear and the benefits to the game overall are not even in question. I'm not sure how you guys can twist this around to be a bad thing, but you do.

All I can say is that if there weren't caches out there that produce logs like Log A, then I would be playing golf....

[+KBI]

Don't worry too much about people complaining about your cache, just do what you said you were going to do and pull the trigger. If someone complains, listen to what they have to say and judge for yourself if it makes sense for you.

Works for me. The same advice applies when people criticize one’s finding preferences as well.

 

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person’s aesthetic preference is unique. Nevertheless, it seems a few folks here and there can’t help but get into other people’s business, and they make it their own business to 'instruct' others how to cache with what they believe to be the 'correct' aesthetic preference.

 

I’ve been using Team GeoBlast's advice for a long time. I do the same whether those folks are criticizing my cache hiding preferences of my cache finding preferences: I listen to their criticism, then I decide for myself what to heed and what to ignore.

 

I’m pretty confident in the appropriateness of my own caching preferences; I therefore do a lot of ignoring.

Edited November 20, 2008 by KBI

[+TrailGators]

What I love are the threads where people complain that everyone is leaving short logs on their cache and they have absolutely no clue why. It seems like it would be fun to about read cool adventures that people are having when they find your cache. There are ways to get those kind of logs but I guess we aren't allowed to make suggestions. So I'm going back into my cone of silence....

Edited November 20, 2008 by TrailGators

[Clan Riffster]

All I can say is that if there weren't caches out there that produce logs like Log A, then I would be playing golf....

I think I would have a lot more fish in my freezer.

(Naturally, my post is bristling with entitlement)

[Clan Riffster]

So I'm going back into my cone of silence....

Shame! Sir, you should offer penance for such heresy! The nerve! Suggesting that quality is worth striving for... Sheesh!

Back to your Cone Of Silence!

[+Team GeoBlast]

My hope is that the hider can answer one question and be proud of the answer:

 

"Why am I bringing someone to this place?"

Why isn't "To find this cache" a good enough answer for you? Why does there HAVE to be some other reason at the cache location for a person to find the cache?

 

I was thinkin' the same thing. I'm interested to hear an unentitled honest answer.

 

<sound of crickets>

 

Imagine Geocaching if this was all there was to it for a moment. A game that only encouraged you to hide something so it can be found. All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon. We would quite possibly have the world's silliest game.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

Don't worry too much about people complaining about your cache, just do what you said you were going to do and pull the trigger. If someone complains, listen to what they have to say and judge for yourself if it makes sense for you.

Works for me. The same advice applies when people criticize one’s finding preferences as well.

 

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person’s aesthetic preference is unique. Nevertheless, it seems a few folks here and there can’t help but get into other people’s business, and they make it their own business to 'instruct' others how to cache with what they believe to be the 'correct' aesthetic preference.

 

I’ve been using Team GeoBlast's advice for a long time. I do the same whether those folks are criticizing my cache hiding preferences of my cache finding preferences: I listen to their criticism, then I decide for myself what to heed and what to ignore.

 

I’m pretty confident in the appropriateness of my own caching preferences; I therefore do a lot of ignoring.

 

What I liked most was the amount of forethought and planning she was putting into her hide. I think it is great when people volunteer that kind of energy and hope that we can develop a culture that rewards and encourages that.

[+KBI]

Imagine Geocaching if this was all there was to it for a moment. A game that only encouraged you to hide something so it can be found. All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon. We would quite possibly have the world's silliest game.

"All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon?"

 

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

[+KBI]

What I liked most was the amount of forethought and planning she was putting into her hide. I think it is great when people volunteer that kind of energy and hope that we can develop a culture that rewards and encourages that.

I understand, and I agree.

 

What I also like is when people are tolerant of ANY guideline-compliant and rights-respecting form of participation that brings pleasure. I think it is great when people volunteer that kind of open-mindedness about diverse preferences, and I hope that we can develop a culture that rewards and encourages that.

[+TrailGators]

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

How about this quote that was made 46 minutes ago...

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person's aesthetic preference is unique.

Edited November 20, 2008 by TrailGators

[+KBI]

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

How about this quote that was made 46 minutes ago...

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person's aesthetic preference is unique.

So ... you interpret that comment as expressing distaste for creativity, do you?

[+TrailGators]

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

How about this quote that was made 46 minutes ago...

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person's aesthetic preference is unique.

So ... you interpret that comment as expressing distaste for creativity, do you?

I interpret it to mean that 'people should mind their own business' and there is 'no correct way.'

How can ideas for creativity be suggested with that attitude?

Edited November 20, 2008 by TrailGators

[+KBI]

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

How about this quote that was made 46 minutes ago...

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person's aesthetic preference is unique.

So ... you interpret that comment as expressing distaste for creativity, do you?

I interpret it to mean that 'people should mind their own business' and there is 'no correct way.'

How can ideas for creativity be suggested with that attitude?

If you like being inventive and creative with your cache hides, it is not my place to tell you you’re doing it wrong. It’s not my place because (1) 'it’s none of my business' what kind of caches you prefer to hide, as long as you follow the published rules (which say nothing about creativity), and (2) my 'correct' way is not the only 'correct' way to play. There are millions of 'correct' ways to participate.

 

How on earth can you possibly interpret that as me telling you NOT to be creative?

[+TrailGators]

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

How about this quote that was made 46 minutes ago...

Most folks pretty much mind their own business when it comes to caching preferences, understanding intuitively that there is no one 'correct' way to enjoy the hobby, and that each person's aesthetic preference is unique.

So ... you interpret that comment as expressing distaste for creativity, do you?

I interpret it to mean that 'people should mind their own business' and there is 'no correct way.'

How can ideas for creativity be suggested with that attitude?

If you like being inventive and creative with your cache hides, it is not my place to tell you you're doing it wrong.

When did I say that someone was 'wrong?' You are making stuff up again. If we are going to talk then quit making stuff up.

 

You are clearly telling us that we need to mind our own business. To me this means to shut up and not suggest creative ways to make caches more fun.

Edited November 20, 2008 by TrailGators

[+KBI]

If you like being inventive and creative with your cache hides, it is not my place to tell you you're doing it wrong.

When did I say that someone was 'wrong?' You are making stuff up again. If we are going to talk then quit making stuff up.

When did I say you said someone was 'wrong?'

 

Who’s the one making stuff up?

 

You are clearly telling us that we need to mind our own business. To me this means to shut up and not suggest creative ways to make caches more fun.

Minding one's own business means tolerance and acceptance instead of telling other people how to play. If you’re not telling other people how to play, then I’m obviously not talking about you, am I? Why so defensive?

 

You still haven’t explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

[+TrailGators]

You still haven't explained how any of that makes me anti-creativity.

If you are such a strong supporter of creativity then why can't you mind your own business and let people make creative suggestions? That is all I've been doing.

[+Snoogans]

My hope is that the hider can answer one question and be proud of the answer:

 

"Why am I bringing someone to this place?"

Why isn't "To find this cache" a good enough answer for you? Why does there HAVE to be some other reason at the cache location for a person to find the cache?

 

I was thinkin' the same thing. I'm interested to hear an unentitled honest answer.

 

<sound of crickets>

 

Imagine Geocaching if this was all there was to it for a moment. A game that only encouraged you to hide something so it can be found. All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon. We would quite possibly have the world's silliest game.

 

Let me see if I understand you before I go off on a tangent. Do you wish to stamp out silliness in our lifetime or do you wish to distance yourself from silliness?

 

Because you might as well herd cats on the first part and by the mere fact that you are a geocacher, according to my wife, you are silly.

 

Tangent warning.....

 

Geocaching is hide and seek. Plain and simple.

 

Hide and seek is a silly kids game or is it?

 

Players: 2 or more

Age range: no limit

Setup time: 1 minute

Playing time: no limit

Random chance: Low

Skills required: Running, Hunting, Tracking, Hiding, Observation

 

EXCEPT, when you really think about it, hide and seek is the basic building block of intelligence. I believe that hide and seek, the essence of it, (survival) is what started our ancient ancestors down the road to where we are today as thinking, intelligent, self aware beings. It's funny that we just find more technological ways to play the same game we played as kids...... and that so many people take this new version so seriously.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Snoogans

[+TrailGators]

EXCEPT, when you really think about it, hide and seek is the basic building block of intelligence. I believe that hide and seek, the essence of it, (survival) is what started our ancient ancestors down the road to where we are today as thinking, intelligent, self aware beings. It's funny that we just find more technological ways to play the same game we played as kids...... and that so many people take this new version so seriously.

It's funny you mention hide and seek. It was one of my favorite games as a kid! I bet a lot of us have that in common. The only time it wasn't so fun is when my little sister got lazy and hid in the hall closet every time it was her turn to hide. I guess I expected the unexpected. Edited November 20, 2008 by TrailGators

[+Too Tall John]

EXCEPT, when you really think about it, hide and seek is the basic building block of intelligence. I believe that hide and seek, the essence of it, (survival) is what started our ancient ancestors down the road to where we are today as thinking, intelligent, self aware beings. It's funny that we just find more technological ways to play the same game we played as kids...... and that so many people take this new version so seriously.

So, you are saying that geocaching is an extension of a basic survival instinct?

 

There is a more basic survival instinct: the urge to improve. If humans, as a species, didn't have a drive to make themselves better, we'd still be banging stones together in caves.

 

You are arguing against people who are striving for excellence. Excellence in a game, but a game that is rooted, as you put it, in a basic building block of intelligence.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Imagine Geocaching if this was all there was to it for a moment. A game that only encouraged you to hide something so it can be found. All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon. We would quite possibly have the world's silliest game.

"All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon?"

 

Who are all these people who are frowning upon use of effort and imagination, TGB?

 

I asked you that question earlier in this thread, after the first time you posted that claim. I asked for links. You still haven't provided any evidence of the existence of these creativity-haters.

 

I know this is going to surprise you. But you seem to be the best available example. It seems that any mention of creativity throws the you and your henchmen into a complete hissy fit.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Let me see if I understand you before I go off on a tangent. Do you wish to stamp out silliness in our lifetime or do you wish to distance yourself from silliness?

 

A silly game that does not encourage the use of creativity would not have appeal to me.

 

Geocaching is hide and seek. Plain and simple.

 

Thankfully, to many it is more of a combination of show and tell and hide and seek.

 

EXCEPT, when you really think about it, hide and seek is the basic building block of intelligence. I believe that hide and seek, the essence of it, (survival) is what started our ancient ancestors down the road to where we are today as thinking, intelligent, self aware beings.

 

Ah ha! So you admit that we are thinking, intelligent, and self aware beings! Are you advocating that we keep those people away from Geocaching? Shoot if we let them in they might think up innovative fun caches for us to find. Perhaps we should go underground now?

[+Team GeoBlast]

So ... you interpret that comment as expressing distaste for creativity, do you?

 

This is how you come off. All I have heard is that we encourage creativity, thought, and energy be put into hiding geocaches and you have done nothing but lament that idea.

 

Are you against people improving and learning?

 

That is the message you seem to be sending.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

You are arguing against people who are striving for excellence. Excellence in a game, but a game that is rooted, as you put it, in a basic building block of intelligence.

 

Perfectly said TTJ.

[+The Jester]

Imagine Geocaching if this was all there was to it for a moment. A game that only encouraged you to hide something so it can be found. All use of effort or imagination is frowned upon. We would quite possibly have the world's silliest game.

I've followed this thread since the beginning, but stayed out of it (as much as I wanted to jump on one comment or another) - until now. This quote is just too funny, because it describes geocaching as it was in the beginning. I've been to many of the early caches - some because that's when I started, others because they are an interest of mine (why? I don't know, they just are. In fact, I started the first History Challenge cache). Let's see ... a cache at a wide spot in the road without anything else to recommend it (no view, history, hike, etc.); a cache at a freeway intersection out a way from most everything (including view, history, hikes and the like); a cache in the woods under one of countless bushes (I still haven't found the right one, I'll keep probing bushes. You can hike to this one, or drive within 100 yards); a cache in a ATV playground out in near desert (the only view is the noisy machines that may run you down get to the cache); a cache under a tree in range land just off a dirt road (careful what you sit on); a cache under a sage bush next to a quarry with a nice view (and sound) of the newer quarry just over there. These are all caches that were set up very early on - when the whole idea was to "hide something so it can be found".

 

And when has a tolerance for ... let's see, how should I phrase this, hmm, you would probably say: "less creative" caches mean frowning on the use of creativity? If a hider doesn't have creativity and places a bland cache, because I (or anybody) don't condemn him for it that means I (or we) don't like/want (i.e. 'frown on') creativity??? Maybe that bland cache was the best he could do? So, because he isn't up to your standard he shouldn't be placing caches?

I've seen where that has gotten out of hand with some of the puzzle caches around here - every one has to be "new" and "creative" (you can't reuse an idea, that's old hat or as you would say "lame". How often is a Sodoko puzzle used any more? Too "lame.") - to the point where many of them are so obscure that without a nudge from the hider you can't solve it.

 

And yes, this is quite possibly the world's silliest game.

[+Snoogans]

You are arguing against people who are striving for excellence. Excellence in a game, but a game that is rooted, as you put it, in a basic building block of intelligence.

 

Perfectly said TTJ.

 

Funny. I don't remember arguing against anything in this thread. Feel free to correct me my quoting the pertainent post of mine.

 

I have merely made a few observations over the course of this thread. I just find it funny when a geocacher has to ask whyyy a geocache was placed. It was obviously placed to be found or confound as the case may be.

 

The owner obviously convinced a reviewer that their cache was within guidelines. That pretty much takes care of the hiding and seeking part.

 

Everything else is clearly up to the finder to insure that their skirt is sufficiently blown up and that their boat is sufficiently floated by choosing those caches with the wind to blow up their skirts and the depth to float their boat.

 

Edited November 20, 2008 by Snoogans