SimbaJamey

I'm confused... How is it lazy to come up with an idea for a good 'trash cache', research, collect and/or buy all the parts needed to build it, put in an hour or two (I've spent as many as ten) building the cache and then go out and find just the right place for it to blend in so that it provides the seeker a little more of a challenge than a LPC or the typical tupperware behind the fallen tree right off the trail with a piece of bark and 2 sticks tossed on top of it? Lazy? If we are going to discuss lazy hides we should do it in a different thread...Where the first thing I would bring up is a bizarre new (new to me, I kinda took a couple of years off) trend where the "cache" is simply a sandwich bag with a piece of paper in it stuffed in a tree-hole or under a rock. I've even found caches of this type full of trinkets and trackables. A sandwich bag? Really? (Who would leave a travel bug in a sandwich bag under a rock next to a sidewalk?) And with over a million caches out there to find...can we get over the, "Location could hold a much larger cache" thing? I bet most of the time that's the case, you are standing in a pretty cool place while you are signing the log..."Thanks for bringing me here" would be a much nicer log to leave for the CO. Like Ani says...32 Flavors and then some. [/rant]

One of my favorite caches ever is a local multi where one of the stages had me stumped for a few hours and took at least 2 visits...the hint was, "Recycle" so I looked for everything within 100' of the stage coordinates that was that recycling blue color. What I eventually found was a pile of old soda cans, one filled with cement with a metal tag sticking out with the coordinates on it. It. Was. AWESOME! I hid a couple 3 years ago that I made out of the caps (and tops) of coke bottles...I've not gotten a single log that said anything remotely along the lines of this discussion, they tend to be complimentary and/or refer to a fun hunt. 3 years and they're both still there. 1 is in a non-trashy area and is glued to something. The other is in an area that used to be completely overgrown (with thorny plants) and was packed with trash, it has survived several major cleanings by the parking lot owners (SEPTA) and is still there even though this spring they cut down all the trees and bushes and removed all the undergrowth stripping the area down to bare dirt (and cleaned up all the trash)! It was found today "Log Date: 5/17/2011 found it! 3 try. nice hide".

For the one where the wrong spot is being torn up...what about putting in the cache description that it's not there? I have an evil one in a parking lot and the 3rd finder told me he was looking almost in someones yard next to the lot so I changed the description and put to not go up the little hill because the cache isn't up there. GC1HGH4

Well....your *wish* came true a few months back!! There was a TB (TBPWYW) in GCMDFP. The cache had been archived after going missing for about a year and you posted that note to it on 6/13/08. On 10/8/08 I accidentally found the final for that multicache (it was only stage one that had gone missing) and it still contained the TB. I moved the bug to another cache and it's once again happily traveling about

I just want decent coordinates. I stopped at one yesterday in a mall parking lot. Apparently that cacher has a reputation for soft coordinates (Which I've seen a bunch of times including the first cache I ever tried for). I was standing in a parking lot with the GPS saying zero (Both yesterday and on the first one). The first one, I found the cache (after a hint) about 25 feet away (nano on a sign post) from GZ (got the same GZ on 10 different days). Yesterday I assumed it was in the stand of about 10 cedar trees on the edge of the lot, again about 25' away (It was the only thing remotely close to where I was when the GPS got down to 0) but this time I didn't even bother to look. That one got me to the point where I'm going to finally make myself an ignore list and go through that cachers eighty or ninety hides (the ones I've not yet found) and put them on the list so they're no longer in my PQs or on my GPSr. I don't mind if I have to look around a little in the woods (I've spent as much as 12 hours looking for a cache or two), especially if the cache page says they averaged x number of readings to get it as close as they could given the conditions...But I really think I'm done looking for ones where someone thinks they're being slick putting you out in the middle of a parking lot with nothing but asphalt for 25' in any direction. That, in my opinion, is LAME!

In the "Exception to the rule" department.... Probably the two best caches I've found so far, one a 4 stage and one a 5 stage multi, were both placed years ago by a cacher with 1 find and 2 hides! A counter-example is one local here with over 3,000 finds and almost 100 hides, I've found at least 30 of them and they're all LPCs or nanos on a bench or pill bottle tossed next to a tree type things that generally receive very uncomplimentary find logs. Oh, and they often have soft coordinates to boot. I did wait until I had about 60 finds before hiding my first though. Really I think it's based more on the creativity of the person and not so much about how many smileys they have. So I'd have to disagree on the minimum find requirement before being allowed to hide. I would be interested in the ability to ignore particular hiders in my PQs though. I know I can just skip them when I'm out caching...but that's hard for me to do when I'm driving by one and it comes up on the screen.

After 25+ years of living in the same area....I learned that there are a bazillion more parks and nature areas within a few miles than I had ever imagined possible!!!!!!! And yup...I too learned that the thing on the bottom of the lamp-post actually lifts up! I also have to agree on the ticks! ...but that led to another learning experience...Permethrin is AWESOME!

Not sure if it's quite the same...but I have one hidden in the crux of a tree that I walk past on an almost daily basis, after several of the finds I've found it laying on the sidewalk near the tree. I've yet to find it totally back in place (It wedges in behind a small branch so that it blends in with the tree) after a find, but the ones that toss it on the sidewalk kinda irk me. If it wasn't somewhere that I see it all the time, I'm sure it would have disappeared after the first couple of finds. I have another one that also sits in the crux of a tree...I went back after the first find and found it tossed in a drainage pond nearby...the most recent log (A DNF) has me thinking it's back in the water again. If I can find it, I'll probably tether it to the tree this time. The only one I've moved after finding it was one that I took home. It was a glass bottle that was supposed to be hanging in a telephone pole (in a metal thing on the side)...after almost DNFing it myself...I found a baggie full of broken glass and bits of a log sheet in a bush next to the pole. I posted a SBA in stead of a NM because there was nothing left there to find and didn't want anyone else to go looking for something that wasn't there (still not sure if I made the right call on that one). I emailed the CO as soon as I got home explaining what happened. I understand the group thing where the put back person isn't the same as the found it person...but in general it just seems like laziness when a cache doesn't get put back where it belongs. Even if the coordinates are 70' off I'll still put it back where I found it and just note the discrepancy in my log.

I can only speak for myself here, but I gotta say "Yes, it is". One of the many joys I derive from this game is pawing through swag. Like you, I rarely ever take anything, but I always leave swag if the container will hold it. Still, the pawing is pleasurable for me. So, (interject personal bias here), if everything else was equal, (location/clever hide/etc), I would enjoy a cache with swag more than one without. Just my $0.02 Ok. That's reasonable. It's like why I love going to flea markets...fun to look through all the stuff. But what if everything wasn't equal...Meaning the difference between finding a micro that someone cleverly put inside a boundary stake or in a rock or otherwise made it blend into the environment such that it really takes some looking around to find it...vs. the tupperware under the obvious pile of sticks? Like I said, I've yet to find a larger container that was altered in a way that made it blend into the environment other than some cammo tape on tupperware type stuff so I'm sure my perspective is somewhat skewed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating more pill-bottles tossed in the woods next to a tree...I'm just saying that a quality cache is a quality cache no matter the size nor the location and that I have grown to disagree with the basic premise that bigger is better and the cache should always be the largest the area can support. Quality over size/quantity.

Rain. On rainy days I usually have serious accuracy issues with my Colorado. Not just when I'm out caching... I have a stump in my yard that I've been using to conduct my own tests on the Co. for a while now. I leave it on the stump for a bit and then mark a waypoint. Most days it does really well (within 10' of the others), but on rainy days I often get points that are as much as 70' away no matter how long I let it settle.

A couple of months ago I probably would have echoed the previous posters sentiments...but now I'm not so sure. I know from the caching with kids perspective that a big box of treasures at the end is a great thing...but even though I still leave stuff in the non-micros I find, I can't even remember the last time I took something out of a cache. I found an ammo can yesterday that was stocked full of toys for both kids and adults, it had things like an FM radio and flashlights and yo-yo's, etc. I signed the log, tossed in a couple of extra trinkets and went on my way. However... When not caching with kids I tend to get more fired up over a really good search. I've never found an amazingly cammoed ammo can like the ones I see on the CCC thread, in fact most I've seen don't even remove the military markings from the can, just put it under a fallen tree or a pile of sticks. Sorry, there's just not a whole lot of challenge there when it comes to finding it, I can usually spot them before getting to GZ. And yes, the same goes for most micros where it's a bison on a tree or a film can under a rock... But.... I've seen some awesome micros out there in the woods that had me scratching my head quite a while before figuring it out. That's my kinda cache. And I've made a bunch, some are out there and some are waiting for the right spot. Some are micros that will go in remote wooded areas simply because they'd be likely to wind up in the trash if they were in a more urban setting. I'd hate to spend a month making something only to have someone come along and take it or toss it because they didn't know what they had in their hands. And I'm not sure how this would fit into the discussion...but most of the multi-caches I've done have micros in the woods as stage markers. Whether I'm interested in the big box of toys at the end or not, I still just found 5 micros in the woods getting to it. So I guess I've begun to wonder lately about this bias towards putting the largest container the area can support. And I mean what I'm about to say as an honest question, not being snarky...Is the big box of stuff at the end really that important? After you've found a few hundred caches are you still actively trading stuff in and out every time you open the box?

I forget where it was (I think on a cache page in the archived note), but I read something from my local reviewer that said almost the same thing...The problem as he saw it wasn't so much with that specific cache, but the fact that other people would copy the idea thinking it was an acceptable hide (I think it had to do with a screw in a tree IIRC).

I agree as well! Great post! I think any cache is cool to a newbie. It took me several finds of each type before I figured out that LPCs and Guardrail hides aren't my favorites. Doesn't stop me from finding them on days I just want to be out there though, hopefully on my way to one in the woods somewhere though. We have one very prolific hider around here that is all about those types of hides. I've gone through 3 phases relating to his caches. At first I thought they were challenging and cool (He has a nano on a sign that took me 6 hours to find my first week (I even had to write him and ask for a hint) because I had no idea what I was looking for). Then I got into reading these boards and decided his caches are lame and I started to ignore them. But then I finally settled on the, "To each their own" mentality and like I just said, I go out and find them sometimes when I'm in the area. And when I do it's not about adding to my smiley count, it's about being outside and having fun. I think hiders are giving back to the game whatever they can. Some people have more time, creativity or money to put into their hides and that's cool...but I've come to realize that even the keyholder under the payphone with the purchase receipt as the log sheet is someones way of trying to give back to the Geocaching community. I really don't think anyone sets out to place a lame hide...and lameness is completely subjective anyway. Heck, I placed one (A 'small') in a city park that I even wrote on the cache page I was kinda embarrassed to have put out because it felt like a 'Throw Down' because it was one I happened to have in my bag while I was scoping out spots to place a multi. Well...that cache has gotten the longest finder write-up of any of my hides, generally gets pretty large logs that have all been complimentary...and I even got an email from one finder from another state who said they liked it so much they're going to copy it for a hide where they live!

There's one local cacher whose caches I wish I could say I ignore. I don't intentionally go after them, but if I'm out and about and driving past one I still get the smiley. I'm sure I've found more of their caches than anyone elses. I've only seen one that wasn't a micro (most are nanos) and that one was a vitamin bottle tossed on the ground next to a parking lot. There was someone else there the day I was looking for it and we both got readings about 70' off when I picked up the cache that was just laying there on the ground unhidden. The hider has gone so far as to say one is not easy (I'm assuming they meant not as easy as their others) but all that did was generate logs saying it was extremely easy (It was yet another of their guardrail caches). So that hider pretty much has the Park & Grab genre covered around here. I've gone the other way with my hides making things that blend into the environment or are more deviously placed. Unfortunately, I've got quite a collection of emails from that cacher slagging me for my hides. Here was our first little exchange: And the response I got: Um...yeah, that was helpful And I won't post anything that was sent to me after that...but it got WAY WAY WAY less P.C.!!! I will say though that none of the subsequent logs on my first cache complained, and that most said things like, "Good Job" or, "Great Hide" The most amusing part to me is that the hider has now placed caches with descriptions saying they are examples for cachers to learn how to place better hides (Oh...and so far, half the logs on that one are talking about all the trash and mess in the area...yup, my idea of a quality hide! Way to set an example.) So I think the OPs question is a difficult one to answer. If there was a button to ignore someones caches, I'd probably be using it for that hider. But there isn't and they end up in my PQs so I do them when I'm in the area. I can't speak for the other cacher, but I doubt he'd do an ignore list no matter what he thinks about me or anyone else...and that's based on the fact that he's continued to find every cache I hide (Except the 2 that require decent hikes or hill climbs to get to). On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are certain hiders whose caches I've begun to seek out because they tend to be fun and challenging. I wish there was a way to get them all in a PQ! (I know, I've checked all and created PQ...but it doesn't give me the full info like a regular PQ does ) This is why Ice Cream comes in so many flavors.

I have a cache in a parking lot that is currently under construction. I woke up one morning to find the fence around the lot removed and that night when I got home from work the sidewalk was gone too. I'm still waiting for them to finish the construction before I put the cache back out there. Can Mother Nature be a muggle? I have a cache near a wall in a small creek. The wall is ancient and the creek has mostly moved off to the side...but we had 3 huge flooding storms late this summer and I'm pretty sure the little wall is moving ...and the cache seems to be getting deeper and deeper but more exposed at the same time. Bummer about the bridge...I hope they catch the arsonists!

I use the GPSr to get to GZ. Once I get there I hook the GPSr on my belt and start looking around. Sometimes I read the cache page ahead of time, sometimes I get there and look around first. If I don't find it where the GPSr took me I'll usually do the "Clover Leaf" thing I read about here, I walk away at least 60' and follow the arrow back to GZ. I do this 3 or 4 times from different directions and narrow down the GZ point. Usually after 10 or 15 minutes I'll start working my way through the description, logs and then hint.

Well...I've already said I log mine, but tonight I experienced one of the little benefits of logging DNFs that I thought I'd share. I got an email a few hours ago from the CO of one of my recent DNFs. Here's my DNF log I left: The location was beautiful, the hunt was fun and I arrived unprepared (Read the cache page when we got there). I think we found 5 caches that day but none was as much fun to look for as the one we didn't find. so, tonight I got this email from the CO: So...not only do my geosenses feel slightly vindicated (I said to my caching partner that day when we first got there, "I bet it's under one of those brand new pieces of plywood nailed to the bridge deck."), but a couple of posted DNFs prompted the CO to check the cache and find out that the access location had been sealed up so he could disable it before anyone else went after an unreachable cache (not to mention saving me from spending another hour or two there the next time I'm in that neighborhood ). So...I will continue posting DNFs when I look and come up empty.

Well...I agree and I disagree Gorilla glue is awesome for almost everything...........except gluing stuff to a 35mm canister No, seriously. I've used it for all sorts of things for many years and it's absolutely awesome. I've only had one failure with it and that was about a month ago. I put most of the caches I make out in the yard for a week or two just to make sure everything's copacetic. Well, after 2 weeks the little piece of wood I gorilla glued to the top of the sanded and washed film canister had fallen off. All of the glue was on the wood and the plastic was clean. The bark I glued onto the sides with it is still attached though. I've never tried the JB Weld...been thinking about it though. I thought it was just for metal, I didn't realize it worked on other stuff too. I'll be picking some up the next time I'm in the local hardware store. One solution to the glue issue I've used successfully has been to paint the containers before gluing stuff on them. I had been going through a many coat primer, topcoat, matte clear process until I read on here about the krylon fusion paints (They're AMAZING! and the ultra flat cammo paint is perfect!). Now I spray one or two coats of that and let it dry at least a day (a week is best). Then I've had success with any epoxy or even gorilla glue.

Interesting to read through the 6 year old thoughts on this subject. Times have certainly changed and there's a lot more regulation now. Being of a different era..... I wrote my local reviewer several months prior to hiding my first. He gave me some contact information and I searched out some more. About half of my caches are placed in areas that require permission. Before I placed them I talked to the Township Cache Approver (local P&R Recreation Superintendent). He has been nothing but helpful (He's a cacher himself), even found me a township map and gave me a list of good locations. He said his goal is to, "Have a cache in every township park." And the local reviewer knows that any caches placed here need to be approved so they don't get published until the 'placed with permission' logo is on the page. There's a form that has to be submitted and then the township guy goes out and checks the locations. In fact, he turned me down on one a couple of weeks ago but when I explained where it really is he met me there a couple of days later and gave the ok. I also wrote to my reviewer to find out about parks a little farther out. Placed a couple after he said that the Philly City Parks had no approval system. I just got a response back from the local Watershed Association about placing caches on their properties. They too are happy to have cachers on their trails and there's no form or process for them. With so many caches getting archived by the Bomb Squad (Including one two weeks ago only about ten miles from here!), I have NO problem filling out a form for the Parks & Rec. Department!!!! I'm curious to hear again from some of the folks that posted on this 6 years ago.

I thought we're not supposed to change that sort of thing once a cache has been published? I'm new to the hiding side (even newer than to the finding I guess, which I'm still pretty new at) and my biggest struggle has been with the D ratings. I get very few DNFs logged online so I keep working under the impression that they aren't that hard and I haven't really seen ones worthy of the higher difficulty #'s to compare to. So I've kept the #'s fairly low, this may start to become a problem though...I put one out a couple of weeks ago and rated it a 3. It has one unassisted find, one find where I showed up while someone was looking and he signed the log after I had to spend a few minutes looking for it before I found it. One other find from someone that called him for help, and one logged online from someone that may not actually exist (I need to go look at the signatures on the paper one of these days). The guy I met there said 2 other people had looked and left but they never logged it. Since then there have been 3 DNFs logged, including 2 when the guy I showed it to and I were there with them but none of us could find it in the dark. The area has shown increasing search evidence, the English Ivy ground cover that provided the location it's cammo has been pretty much cleared for about 5' around GZ, every time I go back the area is even more bare (And no, it's not a cammoed ivy leaf type thing, in fact...it's bright red and sticks out like a sore thumb!). So now I'm worried that I under-rated that caches difficulty (as well as others probably) since it's the same # as others I've placed with 15-1 find to DNF ratios. I was actually thinking earlier tonight about emailing my reviewer to ask him how I should handle the situation, if it's possible (acceptable) to bump up or down a caches difficulty rating early in it's life. As a final note, it probably doesn't help as far as me knowing what to do that there are 2 caches around here that are a very similar type of cache, both were tough finds for me...but one is rated a 2.5 and one is rated a 4.5

I've found maybe half a dozen and have traded for them. I think it's a really cool aspect of the game...and it's neet meeting cachers whose sig items you've picked up. I started making my own 'wooden nickels' they're little paintings or sculptures on wooden discs I picked up at the craft store. I tend to be selective about the caches I put them in though since I haven't made that many yet. Mostly I use them when I trade for another sig item (since that is when I remember they're in my pack) or for a really great cache.

PC7 is one of the best epoxy's around. It's fairly expensive (~$10 for 2 small cans) but I've been using it over 20 years with great results. I think the sanding is still key though, the rougher the sandpaper the better, give the glue something to bite into on the plastic. I also use a variety of other glues, 60 second and 5 minute epoxy in the tubes as well as Gorilla Glue (Although I've had bad results trying to use the GG with plastic). My worry with the 'trash caches' is that they will get CITOed...it's a fine line between making something that will blend in and something that will get mistaken for trash and tossed. Hopefully upon close inspection (when you pick it up), the bottle caps won't resemble trash or if they do I'll attach them to something heavy so they aren't easily removed (like the one glued to the rock).

I have a Colorado300 and have had great luck finding caches with it. I started hiding them a couple of months ago and for the most part it seems to work pretty well. However, this week I've gotten a complaint about my coordinates (from a previous finder on a cache). I was also told by a 60Csx owner that my #'s tend to be about 10' off. I spend quite a bit of time trying to get them right so this is troubling to me. Here's how I get the #'s that I post: I mark at least 9 waypoints...3 where I leave the Colorado in one place (at the cache) and let it settle before marking the point. 3 where I walk at least 60' away, walk back to the cache and mark the point as soon as the GPSr is on top of it. Then I do another set of 3 similar to the last but I stop at the cache and wait 2 or 3 seconds for the Colorado to 'catch up' before marking the waypoint. Then I go home, write down all the #'s and average them out the way Keystone described. I thought I was getting them really close, of the ~60 logs on my caches, one has complimented the coordinates and none have complained (the one complaint was a note posted 2 weeks after the find and I'm pretty sure it was a personal issue with the finder, had 3 other cachers tell me I was within 10' on that one). So.... Are you placing caches with a Colorado? If so...what do you do to get your #'s as close as possible? I'd HATE to think I'm making stuff that's hard to find and then not putting seekers in the exact right place to look for it.

I always use an extra-fine-point sharpie. It writes on anything, wet logs aren't a problem. Just have to be careful to write fast so it doesn't bleed thru.

I did what I logged as a, "Parking lot power trail" a couple of weeks ago. 3 LPC's in a straight line across one HUGE parking lot. I have freakishly long arms and drive a Jeep...so I wouldn't even have had to open the door at all had I not dropped the last one trying to put it back (Still didn't have to get out of the Jeep though). I thought the most interesting part of it was that all 3 containers were different. One was a magnetic keyholder, one's a 35mm film canister and....um....uh....I don't remember what the third was. I think those are the only one's I've been able to do without getting out of the Jeep.