Have gas prices affected your geocaching?

[+Kohavis]

I'm just curious. Geocaching can be driving-intensive in most sprawled out areas like ours.

 

With gas prices so high in the USA (compared to what we've been used to, that is), have you found yourself looking for closer caches when you go out?

 

Or do you feel "I'm going to go find some ...let the gas cost chips fall where they may"?

[+markandsandy]

Compare to the price of 2 movie tickets:

 

Tickets $9.50 x 2 = $19

 

$19 / $4.099/gallon (diesel) = 4.6 gallons

4.6 gallons * 20MPG = 92 miles (round trip) or 46 mile radius

Caches within 46 mile radius of home: 5534

 

Sounds like a pretty reasonable entertainment value to me.

[+TotemLake]

Nope. I still hike and geocache once a month... on rare occasions, I might even go twice.

[+nekom]

Other obligations and commitments that come with life get in the way a lot more than gas prices. In fact I'm leaving this evening for a 300 mile round trip. Though it's not exclusively a geocaching trip, I do hope to add 5 or 6 new counties to my finds map on the way home.

 

But road trips aside, I live in a VERY cache dense area. There are 2 caches within .1 miles of my house. I have no shortage of short drive caches, so gas prices are no big deal for me.

[+Buggheart]

I also live in a very cache dense area so I don't have to drive very far to find one but I do try to plan out the most efficient route. Not so much to save on gas but to get to them faster. My mom also caches and her area is very cache dense as well (there are at least 5 I know of within quick walking distance of her house) so sometimes I head down to her house and we plan our trips to hunt down a certain road or route. I basically started this hobby right when gas was the most expensive it's ever been so I don't think about it too much and consider whatever it adds up to is cheaper than going to the movies or out for dinner but so much more entertaining.

[+DanOCan]

Yes, as the price of gas goes higher my caching stays closer to home. I will no longer run off across the city to find a new cache that sounds really interesting, instead waiting until I happen to be in the area for other purposes before finding it.

 

No more all day road trips unless we "happen to be going that direction".

 

I only have a finite amount of money so as the price of necessities go up, something else has to go down.

(That being said, I'm still planning on making it to GeoWoodstock VII!)

[+TeamAtlas]

Well, since we are NOT in a cache dense area (only about 200 w/in a 50 mile radius, most of which we've found) we have to drive further each time to find new caches. Gas just reaches $5.49 a gallon here in south GA today, so yeah I think that will put a big dent in our caching, I'm sorry to say.

[+whistler & co.]

YES, unfortunately!

[+StarBrand]

Not really - I gulp a bit harder when I pay the cachier after filling up but it hasn't really stopped me or anything.

[+sbell111]

Compare to the price of 2 movie tickets:

 

Tickets $9.50 x 2 = $19

 

$19 / $4.099/gallon (diesel) = 4.6 gallons

4.6 gallons * 20MPG = 92 miles (round trip) or 46 mile radius

Caches within 46 mile radius of home: 5534

 

Sounds like a pretty reasonable entertainment value to me.

That would be true if you were able to get the same mileage for driving to several caches adding up to 92 miles as you could for simply driving 92 miles down the road. Further, you would not be able to find 5534 caches in that 92 miles.

 

For me, I also have to toss in my wife's enjoyment, since she would like to see a movie, but does not enjoy caching.

 

Therefore, gas prices have greatly affected my willingness to spend a day caching.

[+Headhardhat]

It has effected me more that I would like. Unfortunately I drive over 100 miles a day to and from work and even though work gave me a nice raise to help compensate, it is a factor.

 

The prices of everything else is really starting to become apparent. My food bill, utilities and many other things are all going up quite a bit. It has effected me enough to cut me down to once or twice a week instead of my usual four or five times a week.

 

-HHH

[+infiniteMPG]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

[Mushtang]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

[+Zop]

Not even close.. unfortunately, neither are the caches though! I have to take a 50 mile drive to find any good cache density anymore.

 

Now a note about those movie tickets.. Those are just to get in the dang door! What about a softdrink? $4.50 each and if you're a popcorn nut, tack on an extra $5. That movie just cost a whole lot more and you only get to enjoy it for 2 hours on average.

 

For me, $45 will fill my tank and take me to an area where I can find at least 50 caches within 10 to 12 hours. So, compare that $35 for a two hour movie and I'm way ahead!

[+sbell111]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

[Mushtang]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

[+sbell111]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

Apparently, the governor of NC also keeps it from happening.

[+Kit Fox]

I'm just curious. Geocaching can be driving-intensive in most sprawled out areas like ours.

 

With gas prices so high in the USA (compared to what we've been used to, that is), have you found yourself looking for closer caches when you go out?

 

Or do you feel "I'm going to go find some ...let the gas cost chips fall where they may"?

 

Gas prices/proximity

 

Gas prices killing the hobby

 

High Gas prices and Geocaching

 

Gas prices now will affect your geocaching.

 

Gas prices impact your caching

 

This thread from 04 is particularly interesting because they were whining about gas prices of $1.90 per gallon

 

Power trails vs high gas prices

 

I'm one of those people "who will not die if I can't cache everday." I've adapted my style to deal with the cost of gas. Gone are the days of driving 25 miles R/T to be FTF on a micro. I cache on trips where I have other items planned. Rarely do I go out specifically to find caches.

[Mushtang]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

Apparently, the governor of NC also keeps it from happening.

And he may also keep the gas stations from making any money if indeed it costs more for them to truck in the gas. Is it fair that the gas stations are forced to subsidize the gas for the locals? Shouldn't they pay for the gas they use?

[+sbell111]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

Apparently, the governor of NC also keeps it from happening.

And he may also keep the gas stations from making any money if indeed it costs more for them to truck in the gas. Is it fair that the gas stations are forced to subsidize the gas for the locals? Shouldn't they pay for the gas they use?

That's not how the law works.

 

 

 

Help! Mushtang's hounding me!

Edited September 12, 2008 by sbell111

[+markandsandy]

Compare to the price of 2 movie tickets:

 

Tickets $9.50 x 2 = $19

 

$19 / $4.099/gallon (diesel) = 4.6 gallons

4.6 gallons * 20MPG = 92 miles (round trip) or 46 mile radius

Caches within 46 mile radius of home: 5534

 

Sounds like a pretty reasonable entertainment value to me.

That would be true if you were able to get the same mileage for driving to several caches adding up to 92 miles as you could for simply driving 92 miles down the road. Further, you would not be able to find 5534 caches in that 92 miles.

 

For me, I also have to toss in my wife's enjoyment, since she would like to see a movie, but does not enjoy caching.

 

Therefore, gas prices have greatly affected my willingness to spend a day caching.

 

I didn't mean to imply that I could drive a total of 92 miles and find all 5534 caches. I wouldn't even try to find them all in one trip. But with that density, there are many areas where I can spend less money on fuel than I would spend on a movie, and enjoy a full day of caching.

 

And as Zop pointed out, this doesn't include drinks or popcorn, or in my case the 26 mile round trip to the movie.

 

Fortunately, my wife enjoys geocaching as much as I do.

 

So, no, gas prices have not affected my geocaching. If anything, the price of movie tickets and popcorn has.

[+DavidMac]

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

 

Actually I think it's more speculation and FUD then supply and demand.

[+infiniteMPG]

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Not my governor and not my state but supply and demand have little to do with price gouging to make a quick profit off scared people during disasters. We already handle that harshly in Florida.

[+critterator]

I'm just curious. Geocaching can be driving-intensive in most sprawled out areas like ours.

 

With gas prices so high in the USA (compared to what we've been used to, that is), have you found yourself looking for closer caches when you go out?

 

Or do you feel "I'm going to go find some ...let the gas cost chips fall where they may"?

 

I've been trying harder to bike or take a horse to caches, which takes a good deal longer (a three part multi took me all day yesterday), but I get some exercise out of it. I try to keep my car caching to a minimum, or when I'm already in the area doing something else.

 

Gas prices make a great motivator to reduce my CO2 emissions!!

[knowschad]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

 

I agree... $5 for a box of popcorn is definately gouging!!

[knowschad]

I say that we should all be caching as far from home as we can afford to, because the prices are not going down. Once gas it up to $5/gal (similar to the price of a box of theater popcorn), you'll be glad that you have some caches close to home!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I'm one of those people "who will not die if I can't cache everday." I've adapted my style to deal with the cost of gas. Gone are the days of driving 25 miles R/T to be FTF on a micro. I cache on trips where I have other items planned. Rarely do I go out specifically to find caches.

I much agree with Kit Fox. For a number of reasons that have nothing at all do with the rising price of petroleum fuels, I have, for several years now (well, with the exception of an April 2006 trip to Houston TX to start on the Quantum Leap adventure) almost never headed out on a trip simply for the purpose of finding a cache. And, I wil not die if I do not find at least one cache per week. Rather, my own personal preferences and priorities are such that I happen to be involved in a large number of very rewarding activities and ventures that have nothing to do with geocaching, but for the fact that these ventures occasionally take me to far corners of the USA and the world, and then I often choose to hunt a few caches while I am there; witness my cache finds on my recent Malaysian trip.)

 

BTW, in the interests of full disclosure and transparency, what I wrote about myself above is not at all true about Sue, and rather, she is somewhat compulsive about geocaching, and will spend much time and money hunting geocaches each week, sometimes finding up to 70 or more caches per day!

[+Wild Thing 73]

Not really....I must drive 150-200 miles to cache and that about equals a Golf outing, maybe not as expensive as a round of golf (my Geo Tracker gets about 35 MPG)....But my biggest obstacle to caching trips is my wife, she won't let me drive long distances alone due to health reasons, but I still sneak off and or take her with me.....But again, high fuel cost, does not interfere with my caching. If, I can't make the caching trips, I place caches in the area for others to find and enjoy. I enjoy placing caching as much as finding and logging caches, also, it is my way of paying back to the geocaching community for all the fun and enjoyment of playing this great game. Happy trails.

[+hycam]

No real impact. I drive a Toyota Camry Hybrid, and have been known to get better than 40 MPG, so I figure I'm (using really loose arithmetic, so don't bother citing me for it) paying about half what I would be paying typically.

[+ben94gt]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

Apparently, the governor of NC also keeps it from happening.

And he may also keep the gas stations from making any money if indeed it costs more for them to truck in the gas. Is it fair that the gas stations are forced to subsidize the gas for the locals? Shouldn't they pay for the gas they use?

That's not how the law works.

 

 

 

Help! Mushtang's hounding me!

 

Alright, I live in Raleigh, NC and the way the price gouging law works is this. The PROFIT MARGIN of the station cannot be any higher than the highest profit margin during the last six weeks once the gouging law is enacted. Therefore should it cost more to truck in the supplies, the price goes up with it. The governor is by NO MEANS preventing the station from making money.

[+sseegars]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

Apparently, the governor of NC also keeps it from happening.

And he may also keep the gas stations from making any money if indeed it costs more for them to truck in the gas. Is it fair that the gas stations are forced to subsidize the gas for the locals? Shouldn't they pay for the gas they use?

That's not how the law works.

 

 

 

Help! Mushtang's hounding me!

 

Alright, I live in Raleigh, NC and the way the price gouging law works is this. The PROFIT MARGIN of the station cannot be any higher than the highest profit margin during the last six weeks once the gouging law is enacted. Therefore should it cost more to truck in the supplies, the price goes up with it. The governor is by NO MEANS preventing the station from making money.

 

I'm sorry. Prices jumping nearly a dollar and a half in some places is just wrong. There was plenty of gouging going on today. The whole supply and demand argument is getting tired as well. The oil companies are making a killing off of us. S.C. has also passed a law about price gouging as well today. There was reportedly one station that was charging $6.00 a gallon this morning near here. I see no problem with someone making a fair profit but there should be some set value there.

 

YES, the price of gas greatly affects my caching! I had planned to do a run tomorrow, but not now. I have to get to work next week!

[+KBI]

Alright, I live in Raleigh, NC and the way the price gouging law works is this. The PROFIT MARGIN of the station cannot be any higher than the highest profit margin during the last six weeks once the gouging law is enacted. Therefore should it cost more to truck in the supplies, the price goes up with it. The governor is by NO MEANS preventing the station from making money.

Yes, he is.

 

If a customer is willing to pay the increased price of his own free will, and there is no fraud involved, then the increased price is, by definition, the new market price.

 

If the government steps in and enforces a lower-than-market price, then the government has in fact prevented the station from making legitimate money.

 

In my opinion it is not a proper function of government to determine (much less enforce) how much profit is acceptable in ANY industry, oil included. The acceptability of the price is only for the buyer and the seller to freely determine amongst themselves, and is nobody else’s business. The latter (unrestrained pricing) is free market capitalism; the former (government price control) is socialism.

 

Capitalism is ALWAYS more efficient than socialism.

[+KBI]

I'm sorry. Prices jumping nearly a dollar and a half in some places is just wrong. There was plenty of gouging going on today.

Please define "gouging."

 

The whole supply and demand argument is getting tired as well. The oil companies are making a killing off of us.

How much are the oil companies making off of you? How do you determine how much revenue is unacceptable?

 

S.C. has also passed a law about price gouging as well today.

Sorry to hear that. The supply of gasoline available for you and your fellow SC citizens to purchase may suffer as a result of your state government’s interference in the free market.

 

There was reportedly one station that was charging $6.00 a gallon this morning near here.

Just curious:

 

Between the following two choices, which would you prefer: $6.00 a gallon gas available for purchase, or no gas available to buy at any price?

 

I see no problem with someone making a fair profit but there should be some set value there.

Why do you say the profit being made at the $6.00 a gallon price is "unfair?" What makes ANY profit level "unfair?"

[+KBI]

Just got a text message from my nephew in NC who caches up there and he said due to Hurricane Ike the gas prices this morning shot up to $5.75 a gallon. Then later in the day the governor passed a no-gouging law and prices dropped to $3.70 a gallon. Amazing at how people react....

Your governor apparently doesn't understand supply and demand.

Supply and demand should not allow people to gouge for a commodity.

It keeps that from happening.

 

If someone tries to "gouge" it might be because it's suddenly much more expensive to truck the gas into the area and the actual price of the gas is affected. Or, if a gas station is just trying to take advantage of the situation the gas station down the street could sell gas at the regular price and get all the business, this would force the gas station to lower it's prices again if it wanted to make any money.

Apparently, the governor of NC also keeps it from happening.

Just because the government does something doesn’t make it right.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Or do you feel "I'm going to go find some ...let the gas cost chips fall where they may"?

 

In the ongoing quest to fix my POS rig to make it cache worthy my latest estimtae is 1500.00. Gas is still cheaper than repairs. It's not the gas that's getting in the way.

[+wapahani]

I'd be willing to bet that the VAST MAJORITY of the hobby is affected directly by the cost of gas.

I know that we have cut back on caching. We use to take a Saturday or Sunday and spend a few hours out and about. Now we don't think about it, if we have something in that area then we plan ahead and do the caches we can.

 

I have noticed a LARGE drop in logging on various caches of mine and ours.

One cache use to get hit almost daily. Its gone now for a week without anything. Its still there, but a few caches have gone weeks now without a touch.

 

I notice my notifications are also down in my area in general. New caches are going days without being FTF'ed, even our local hounds aren't jumping all over them!

[+KBI]

I'm just curious. Geocaching can be driving-intensive in most sprawled out areas like ours.

 

With gas prices so high in the USA (compared to what we've been used to, that is), have you found yourself looking for closer caches when you go out?

 

Or do you feel "I'm going to go find some ...let the gas cost chips fall where they may"?

My response has been to generally limit my caching to only those hides that I can reach via bicycle during my regular exercise rides. Not only do I save a little money, but I'm also motivated to take my regular exercise rides a little more, well, regularly, which has been good for my health.

[+Harry Dolphin]

No. I can't say that gas prices have affected my geocaching. I don't generally travel too far. Gas taxes in Jersey are fairly low. Gas price this morning was $3.33/gallon. Did a thousand mile trip to Maine earlier this summer. And a 450 mile trip to South Jersey for the DeLorme Challenge. Mostly I stay within a 30 mile radius. There are 1600 caches to be found there. 60 miles is two gallons of gas. Almost $7! I can afford that!

On the other hand, I bought two tickets to see Wicked on Broadway for someone's birthday present. That's $269. Nope. The cost of gas doesn't worry me. But, then again, I commute 8 miles a day to and from work... I'm more worried about the skyrocketing cost of food.

[+Mule Ears]

For a while there, I was driving 400 miles roundtrip on my weekly caching trip, having exhausted most of the interesting, long-hike caches in my area. The gas prices may have had something to do with it, but I mostly just burned out on 0330 rollouts and long drives. Lately I've been knocking off easier caches closer to home by biking to them. Today I rode the bike from home to a couple of caches in the nearby Huachuca Mountains, 15 miles away and 3000 feet higher. Had a great morning and got home in time for lunch. Only downside was that I had time in the afternoon to do yard work

 

I'm planning longer rides to eliminate that downside...

[+sseegars]

I'm sorry. Prices jumping nearly a dollar and a half in some places is just wrong. There was plenty of gouging going on today.

Please define "gouging."

 

The term price gouging refers to the phenomenon of sharply rising prices of items in (often temporary) high demand.

 

 

 

It is semantically loaded with negative connotations against the merchants involved. However, according to Thomas Sowell's book, Basic Economics, high prices can instead be viewed as information for use in determining the best allocation of scarce resources for which there are multiple uses. Thus, when a natural disaster strikes, and the price of plywood jumps up, a hobbyist considering a new base for his model railroad layout may opt to wait until prices have returned to pre-crisis levels, just to give one example.

 

 

 

Most still view price gouging as an immoral activity and many regions have laws banning profiteering from emergencies. These laws usually state that prices should not climb more than a certain percentage after a disaster without demonstrable cause.

 

The whole supply and demand argument is getting tired as well. The oil companies are making a killing off of us.

How much are the oil companies making off of you? How do you determine how much revenue is unacceptable?

 

I do believe that the reported earnings for the first quarter were $4 BILLION. I guess that would be unacceptable. Poor oil companies.

 

S.C. has also passed a law about price gouging as well today.

Sorry to hear that. The supply of gasoline available for you and your fellow SC citizens to purchase may suffer as a result of your state government’s interference in the free market.

 

As of now there is next to no gas available near here. It isn't the states fault.

 

There was reportedly one station that was charging $6.00 a gallon this morning near here.

Just curious:

 

Between the following two choices, which would you prefer: $6.00 a gallon gas available for purchase, or no gas available to buy at any price?

 

That isn't a choice. You are going to an extreme.

 

I see no problem with someone making a fair profit but there should be some set value there.

Why do you say the profit being made at the $6.00 a gallon price is "unfair?" What makes ANY profit level "unfair?"

 

A fair profit is just that. People have to live. I work in a service industry as a sales rep. I have the chance to help people with their homes. I never rip anyone off. As a matter of fact I have risked my job trying to help people. If you believe that a fair profit means harming your regular customers, you have a problem. I do believe in free enterprise but sometimes it's just to much.

[+KBI]

I'm sorry. Prices jumping nearly a dollar and a half in some places is just wrong. There was plenty of gouging going on today.

Please define "gouging."

The term price gouging refers to the phenomenon of sharply rising prices of items in (often temporary) high demand.

 

It is semantically loaded with negative connotations against the merchants involved. However, according to Thomas Sowell's book, Basic Economics, high prices can instead be viewed as information for use in determining the best allocation of scarce resources for which there are multiple uses. Thus, when a natural disaster strikes, and the price of plywood jumps up, a hobbyist considering a new base for his model railroad layout may opt to wait until prices have returned to pre-crisis levels, just to give one example.

 

Most still view price gouging as an immoral activity and many regions have laws banning profiteering from emergencies. These laws usually state that prices should not climb more than a certain percentage after a disaster without demonstrable cause.

That’s a good definition. I was curious to know exactly what you meant by the term. Sounds like you found that on the Internet. Without looking I’ll guess it came from Wikipedia.

 

You mighty be interested to look more closely at the ‘Thomas Sowell’ paragraph you quoted. Mr. Sowell rightly notes that high prices serve a critical economic function during a shortage. He uses plywood in his example, but the same concept applies to any shortaged item.

 

Not only do naturally rising prices serve to ration a scarce item; they do so FAR more efficiently than any government program could ever do.

 

The whole supply and demand argument is getting tired as well. The oil companies are making a killing off of us.

How much are the oil companies making off of you? How do you determine how much revenue is unacceptable?

I do believe that the reported earnings for the first quarter were $4 BILLION. I guess that would be unacceptable. Poor oil companies.

What level of earnings would be more acceptable to you? How do you determine how much revenue is acceptable?

 

S.C. has also passed a law about price gouging as well today.

Sorry to hear that. The supply of gasoline available for you and your fellow SC citizens to purchase may suffer as a result of your state government’s interference in the free market.

As of now there is next to no gas available near here. It isn't the states fault.

Maybe it is the states fault, maybe it isn't the states fault.

 

If your (and my) state didn’t enforce the silly “anti-gouging” laws, however, and the gasoline sellers were allowed to charge true market price for gas, then how do you know whether there would still be a shortage? Remember the plywood example above? Maybe the rising prices would encourage those who can more easily do without the gas to skip or reduce their purchase, leaving more supplies available to those who are willing to pay the higher price.

[+KBI]

There was reportedly one station that was charging $6.00 a gallon this morning near here.

Just curious:

 

Between the following two choices, which would you prefer: $6.00 a gallon gas available for purchase, or no gas available to buy at any price?

That isn't a choice. You are going to an extreme.

No, I’m not. I am not making this up. I am using the two choices you have already described:

There was reportedly one station that was charging $6.00 a gallon this morning near here.

... and ...

As of now there is next to no gas available near here.

In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that this is what happened, in between those two observations, to cause your shortage:

S.C. has also passed a law about price gouging as well today.

It IS a real-world choice. As you can see, you have described it yourself.

 

Besides, even if it weren’t a real-world choice at the moment, the scenario could easily happen. It is a very relevant question. Without ‘gouging’ controls, gas can easily climb to $6 per gallon or more. With government price controls in place, shortages are common.

 

Therefore I ask again: Between the following two choices, which would you prefer: $6.00 per gallon gas available for purchase, or no gas available to buy at any price?

 

I see no problem with someone making a fair profit but there should be some set value there.

Why do you say the profit being made at the $6.00 a gallon price is "unfair?" What makes ANY profit level "unfair?"

A fair profit is just that. People have to live. I work in a service industry as a sales rep. I have the chance to help people with their homes. I never rip anyone off. As a matter of fact I have risked my job trying to help people. If you believe that a fair profit means harming your regular customers, you have a problem. I do believe in free enterprise but sometimes it's just to much.

When did I say anything about "harming customers?" How does a gas station "harm" its customers when those customers are freely and willingly paying the advertised price?

 

No business owner with any sense is going to do anything to damage his own livelihood; why, then would he "harm" his customers?

Edited September 13, 2008 by KBI

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Getting somewhat back on topic....

 

Last weekend I went on Sunday for about 2.5 hours to finds some caches. I drove a total of around 60 miles. My vehicle gets about 20 mpg, so I used about 3 gallons of gas at $3.80 per gallon. I found 7 caches and DNFd on two which works out to just over $1.30 per cache or about $4.50 an hour. I drove a little bit further for that particular cluster of caches. If I had headed to the two closest caches my per cache cost would have been closer to $1.50.

 

Has it stopped me from caching? No, it hasn't. If I were caching every day the dollars would quickly add up but I probably spent 7 hours total caching last week, which was actually quite high for me.

 

As far as oil company profits go, Exxon recently shattered the record for quarterly profits by by booking $11.7 billion in quarterly profit; earning $1,300 a second in 2007. That, by any measurement is completely absurd.

[+TeamAtlas]

<--- thinks Mushtang must own a gas station.

[+KBI]

As far as oil company profits go, Exxon recently shattered the record for quarterly profits by by booking $11.7 billion in quarterly profit; earning $1,300 a second in 2007. That, by any measurement is completely absurd.

It is? What accounting measure do you use to determine 'complete absurdity?' How, exactly, do you decide how much profit is acceptable to you?

 

Question: How do you think Exxon’s (and other oil companies’) profit margins compare to the profit margins of other major U.S. industries?

 

Question: What if I, and a whole bunch of other voters like me, were to decide that your personal paycheck was completely absurd – and what if we chose to Demand Action, and badgered out elected representatives into passing and enforcing a law which would summarily cut down your pay to a level we found more acceptable to us? Would that be okay with you?

 

Question: Given the following two choices, which would you prefer: $6.00 per gallon gas available to you for purchase, or no gas available to buy at all, at any price?

[+sseegars]

Alternative sources of energy are the answer here. That or walk. 'Nuff said?

[CoyoteRed]

How does a gas station "harm" its customers when those customers are freely and willingly paying the advertised price?

It's not the gas stations doing it.

 

No business owner with any sense is going to do anything to damage his own livelihood; why, then would he "harm" his customers?

When the company(ies) have a virtual monopoly on the industry and can.

 

One theory is gas companies see alternatives over the horizon. They are getting in their last good hoorah, before fully electric cars hit the market. Why this theory? Because you've not heard the first peep from the present administration about conserving fuel to help ease the shortage burden. Why? There isn't one--either in crude or refined.

 

Plus, it benefits the gas company for us to buy more fuel efficient cars because they can still turn a massive profit, yet not have to produce as much. What's to bet if and when a sizable population of commuters switch to fully electric, or mostly electric hybrid, the fuel costs come back down?

 

It is? What accounting measure do you use to determine 'complete absurdity?' How, exactly, do you decide how much profit is acceptable to you?

One where we are told the reason for the increase is completely bogus, puts a squeeze on everyone except for those who are controlling the price.

 

Question: Given the following two choices, which would you prefer: $6.00 per gallon gas available to you for purchase, or no gas available to buy at all, at any price?

You really think those two are options? The gas company will not allow there to be no fuel. There might be shortage, but if you have nothing to sell, you don't make any money (except for bail-out money from a sympathetic administration.) Those two options aren't the only options. The gas companies can charge their gas stations less, turn less of a profit and still be profitable.

[+KBI]

Alternative sources of energy are the answer here. That or walk. 'Nuff said?

Once all the oil is pumped out of the ground there won’t be any more to refine into gasoline. How long that will take depends on which expert you ask, but even the most optimistic estimates come in at well under 100 years.

 

Developing alternative sources of energy IS the answer here. That or walk.

 

In the meantime, I recommend we not impose artificial shortages on ourselves during these temporary hurricane-related refinery shutdowns. The free market is much more efficient at rationing a shortaged item than any artificially imposed program that can be imagined by annoyed consumers or enforced by government.

 

In a shortage, high prices discourage waste and unnecessary use, which in turn puts downward pressure on prices. High prices also encourage producers to rush in with more supply, when possible, to take advantage of the price increase, which also in turn puts downward pressure on prices.

 

Anti-gouging laws on the other hand only create artificial shortages, and leave unnecessarily high numbers of genuinely needy people with no gas to buy at any price.

 

'Nuff said?

[CoyoteRed]

Anti-gouging laws on the other hand only create artificial shortages, and leave unnecessarily high numbers of genuinely needy people with no gas to buy at any price.

[+sseegars]

Anti-gouging laws on the other hand only create artificial shortages, and leave unnecessarily high numbers of genuinely needy people with no gas to buy at any price.

?