Brain Freeze - Help! What are they called...

[+Kit Fox]

I found California's rules regarding pad mounted transformers

 

Section 17.6 (pg 25) is as close of a section to pertain placing itmes on trasnformers. When these rules were created, I doubt the authors ever thought someone would be fondling their green boxes to get a smiley on a website.

 

17.6 Encroachments

 

Nothing in these rules shall be contrued as permission unauthorized occupancy, access to, connection to, rearrangement, or removal of underground supply or communication system facilities, or any other underground facility.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Kit Fox

[Mushtang]

On my way to work I pass a daycare. This morning I saw that there was a transformer sitting just outside of a chain link fence that the kids play in. Imagine that! If the wind blows wrong, the super deadly transformer will electrify the fence and kill every kid in the grassy play area.

 

And it would be their fault for not asking permission from the transformer guild to play near it.

[+Rockin Roddy]

On my way to work I pass a daycare. This morning I saw that there was a transformer sitting just outside of a chain link fence that the kids play in. Imagine that! If the wind blows wrong, the super deadly transformer will electrify the fence and kill every kid in the grassy play area.

 

And it would be their fault for not asking permission from the transformer guild to play near it.

Really Mushstang? REALLY? Why do you and a few others dwell on such stuff as this when OBVIOUSLY the permission is all that really needs to be dealt with (since you guys will simply poo poo the dangers). I can't even imagine why some feel they must make light of such things, but I guess that's their nature.

 

Can't get past the fact that, no matter how much you want to defend this silly hiding location, permission is a MUST for these. Why not start asking for permission once and see what that gets you? Or do you even want to place a cache here (if not, why even bother arguing this...unless you simply like to argue). Do you feel this type of hide needs defending? If we lose these for hides, will geocaching LOSE something?

 

I'm done watching this comedy...have fun!

[Mushtang]

On my way to work I pass a daycare. This morning I saw that there was a transformer sitting just outside of a chain link fence that the kids play in. Imagine that! If the wind blows wrong, the super deadly transformer will electrify the fence and kill every kid in the grassy play area.

 

And it would be their fault for not asking permission from the transformer guild to play near it.

Really Mushstang? REALLY? Why do you and a few others dwell on such stuff as this when OBVIOUSLY the permission is all that really needs to be dealt with (since you guys will simply poo poo the dangers). I can't even imagine why some feel they must make light of such things, but I guess that's their nature.

 

Can't get past the fact that, no matter how much you want to defend this silly hiding location, permission is a MUST for these. Why not start asking for permission once and see what that gets you? Or do you even want to place a cache here (if not, why even bother arguing this...unless you simply like to argue). Do you feel this type of hide needs defending? If we lose these for hides, will geocaching LOSE something?

 

I'm done watching this comedy...have fun!

Read the whole post before you quote it and start ripping on it. Permission was the entire point.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Mushtang

[+sbell111]

On my way to work I pass a daycare. This morning I saw that there was a transformer sitting just outside of a chain link fence that the kids play in. Imagine that! If the wind blows wrong, the super deadly transformer will electrify the fence and kill every kid in the grassy play area.

 

And it would be their fault for not asking permission from the transformer guild to play near it.

Really Mushstang? REALLY? Why do you and a few others dwell on such stuff as this when OBVIOUSLY the permission is all that really needs to be dealt with (since you guys will simply poo poo the dangers). I can't even imagine why some feel they must make light of such things, but I guess that's their nature.

 

Can't get past the fact that, no matter how much you want to defend this silly hiding location, permission is a MUST for these. Why not start asking for permission once and see what that gets you? Or do you even want to place a cache here (if not, why even bother arguing this...unless you simply like to argue). Do you feel this type of hide needs defending? If we lose these for hides, will geocaching LOSE something?

 

I'm done watching this comedy...have fun!

I realize that you are hammering on 'permission', today, but I don't see it as black and white as you do. These things are certainly placed in locations that would not require one to get permission to access or do any number of other activities. A cache sitting next to one of them or even clinging to it magnetically would not affect it's service or safety. For these reasons, I can certainly understand the argument that explicit permission might not be needed.

[+Mudfrog]

Safety is not too much of a concern with these things. Common sense tells you that they would be locked up behind walls or have fences erected so that the general public wouldn't be able to come into contact with them if they were dangerous.

 

My dealing with one in particular. There was a big one, i'd say over 6 foot in height, that stepped down the voltage before it went into the building that i used to work in. It was on a big concrete pad out back and it was a favorite place for smokers to take their breaks. They sat on that pad, backs against the transformer, every day for the 20+ years that i worked there. I also witnessed the meter reader making his rounds on several occasions and if i'm not mistaken, he joined them a couple of times himself.

 

However, as i said before, i would think that obtaining permission to place any object on or near one of these would most likely end in failure. If a cacher isn't granted the premission, or in probably most cases, doesn't even ask for permission, then the cache should not be placed. Still, i imagine that searching for one and getting caught by an owner, utility worker, or LEO would be pretty non eventful. Think about it, what are they going to do to you? I figure they're either simply gonna run you off or shrug their shoulders, leave, and let you continue looking. Again, i'm not advocating hiding these, just stating what i believe would probably happen when and if someone gets caught searching.

 

To me, these are not great hides, my opinion. But they aren't detrimental to geocaching and they aren't anything that would normally cause anyone too much grief. In otherwords, this is not something any of us should get worked up over!

[+Too Tall John]

...it's fairly obvious (IMHO) that some will argue this just to argue.

DING! DING! DING! DING!

 

We have a WINNER!

[+Too Tall John]

These things are certainly placed in locations that would not require one to get permission to access or do any number of other activities. A cache sitting next to one of them or even clinging to it magnetically would not affect it's service or safety. For these reasons, I can certainly understand the argument that explicit permission might not be needed.

Guess what? You don't get to be the one who interprets exactly what the rules mean. Nobody here does. Well, unless they haven't spoken up. Until they do, we have to follow exactly what the policies state:

 

You can't attach anything to electrical equipment owned by utility companies.

 

Period.

 

The End.

 

Game Over.

[+sbell111]

These things are certainly placed in locations that would not require one to get permission to access or do any number of other activities. A cache sitting next to one of them or even clinging to it magnetically would not affect it's service or safety. For these reasons, I can certainly understand the argument that explicit permission might not be needed.

Guess what? You don't get to be the one who interprets exactly what the rules mean. Nobody here does. Well, unless they haven't spoken up. Until they do, we have to follow exactly what the policies state:

 

You can't attach anything to electrical equipment owned by utility companies.

 

Period.

 

The End.

 

Game Over.

Ummm, didn't you just make an interpretation? You are allowed to make all encompasing judgements and no one else is allowed to opine?

 

Now who's arguing just to argue?

Edited January 28, 2008 by sbell111

[Mushtang]

These things are certainly placed in locations that would not require one to get permission to access or do any number of other activities. A cache sitting next to one of them or even clinging to it magnetically would not affect it's service or safety. For these reasons, I can certainly understand the argument that explicit permission might not be needed.

Guess what? You don't get to be the one who interprets exactly what the rules mean. Nobody here does. Well, unless they haven't spoken up. Until they do, we have to follow exactly what the policies state:

 

You can't attach anything to electrical equipment owned by utility companies.

 

Period.

 

The End.

 

Game Over.

Ummm, didn't you just make an interpretation? You are allowed and no one else is?

 

Now who's arguing just to argue?

DING! DING! DING! DING!

 

We have a FUNNY!

[4wheelin_fool]

 

Great ideas guys! I'm going to e-mail the top managers of all the utility companies right now and apply for blanket permission to hide magnetic keyholders on high voltage transformers!

 

Wish me luck!

[+Too Tall John]

Until they do, we have to follow exactly what the policies state:

 

You can't attach anything to electrical equipment owned by utility companies.

Ummm, didn't you just make an interpretation? You are allowed to make all encompasing judgements and no one else is allowed to opine?

 

Now who's arguing just to argue?

See, now, what I did was repeat back what many of the different policies stated. Repeating is not interpreting. An example of interpreting would look something like this:

These things are certainly placed in locations that would not require one to get permission to access or do any number of other activities. A cache sitting next to one of them or even clinging to it magnetically would not affect it's service or safety. For these reasons, I can certainly understand the argument that explicit permission might not be needed.

The stated policies outweigh what you think until someone with the authority to say what the policies mean joins the conversation.

 

I think anyone with an ounce of common sense can see the difference, and this includes you.

 

Which means you're still just looking to argue.

 

Isn't that what a troll does?

[+sbell111]

For one thing, you used quite a bit of imagination to get those stated policies to even apply to the issue.

[+Too Tall John]

For one thing, you used quite a bit of imagination to get those stated policies to even apply to the issue.

Yeah, it was quite a stretch...

ORANGE AND ROCKLAND UTILITIES, INC.

ROCKLAND ELECTRIC COMPANY

PIKE COUNTY LIGHT & POWER COMPANY

The Company forbids any unauthorized attachments to its poles and equipment...

 

TXU Electric Delivery Company

Attachments to Company Facilities

Company does not permit any attachments to Company facilities by others except when

authorized in writing by Company...

 

Beaches Energy Services

1460 Shetter Avenue

Jacksonville Beach, Florida 32250

 

Except as permitted by contract with other entities, or by written permission for temporary public or quasi-public functions, no person or entity shall use BES’s poles, wires, towers, structures, or other facilities for the purpose of fastening, attaching, or supporting any equipment, wires, ropes, signs, banners, or other facilities...

 

SUMTER ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE

Unauthorized Attachments

SECO prohibits any attachments to its poles or other equipment unless specifically authorized by agreement...

 

FLORIDA STATUTE 812.14 STATES "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO WILLFULLY ALTER, TAMPER WITH,

INJURE, OR KNOWINGLY SUFFER TO BE INJURED ANY METER, METER SEAL, PIPE CONDUIT,

WIRE, LINE, CABLE, TRANSFORMER...

 

PROGRESS ENERGY COMPANY (Florida)

Attachments to Poles Prohibited:

Customers and others are forbidden to use the Company's poles or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting ... things of any nature, or to locate any such things in such proximity to the Company's facilities...

 

CLECO POWER LLC Pineville, LA

Foreign Attachments to Company Poles and Equipment:

Attachments to the Company poles or equipment such as conduits, banners, fire alarms, signs, traffic lights, power and/or telephone wires, and other attachments may be made only with approval of the Company...

 

FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY

5.4 Attachments to Poles. The use of the Company's poles, wires, towers, structures or other facilities for the purpose of fastening ... things, not necessary to the supplying by the Company of electric service to the community, or the locating of same in such proximity to the Company's property or facilities ... is prohibited...

Since, despite all of this being out there, easily readable, yet apparently either incomprehensible to you (unlikely) or simply ignored by you (it didn't fit your argument, why bother reading it?), I'm done with you.

 

*PLONK*

 

(Say, if anyone sees sbell111 become reasonable, let me know, he's on ignore 'til then.)

[+sbell111]

I feel much better.

 

Back to my point, a microcache sitting under the lip or right next to one of these items certainly wouldn't violate any of the referenced policies. It's questionable whether a keyholder clinging to the thing magnetically would be considered an attachment. Either way, I can't imagine anyone (not in this thread) caring about this issue.

Edited January 29, 2008 by sbell111

[+Kit Fox]

I feel much better.

 

Back to my point, a microcache sitting under the lip or right next to one of these items certainly wouldn't violate any of the referenced policies.

 

Only in the "rainbow distorted" view of a "SDEL member" could someone come up with such a view.

 

It's questionable whether a keyholder clinging to the thing magnetically would be considered an attachment. Either way, I can't imagine anyone (not in this thread) caring about this issue.

 

The power companies cared enough to create rules/laws regarding the issue. You're kidding right?

[+sbell111]

I feel much better.

 

Back to my point, a microcache sitting under the lip or right next to one of these items certainly wouldn't violate any of the referenced policies.

Only in the "rainbow distorted" view of a "SDEL member" could someone come up with such a view.

Please explain how a microcache sitting next to one of these would violate the cited regulations.

It's questionable whether a keyholder clinging to the thing magnetically would be considered an attachment. Either way, I can't imagine anyone (not in this thread) caring about this issue.

The power companies cared enough to create rules/laws regarding the issue. You're kidding right?

Companies cannot enact laws. Also, as near as I can tell, no power company has ever made any rule as a result of microcaches being placed in proximity to one of these boxes. Edited January 29, 2008 by sbell111

[+Smokiewolf]

We just found a magnetic keybox stuck under the top lip above the cooling fins on the back of one of these. hhmmm, anybody want the GC# ?

Is this is the "Uncommon Costco Cache?

Edited April 17, 2008 by Smokiewolf

[Mushtang]

Is this dig up really old long thread day?

[Mr.Yuck]

never mind.

Edited April 17, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[Mr.Yuck]

We just found a magnetic keybox stuck under the top lip above the cooling fins on the back of one of these. hhmmm, anybody want the GC# ?

 

No.

[+sbell111]

Is this dig up really old long thread day?

As soon as I saw that somebody markwelled this thread the other day, I knew it would be kicking around.

[fishdirt]

It's amazing how some miss the private property issue, it's as if they forget that they don't own everything just because it's in the public!! They just keep getting stuck on their perception that it's safe...much like teasing the lions at the zoo. Sooner or later....

Actually, this thread's issue was not about safety or permission. It was whether any of us knew what those things were called.

 

Regarding your lion analogy, I don't think it fits. A better one would be if a person climbed over a fence separating a tiger enclosure and taunted the cat until the cat climbed the barrier and diced him. If the person stayed outside the fence and teased the cat, the zoo would be totally wrong. However, if the person entered an area that he wasn't supposed to go in, he would be seen by the cat as entering the feline's domain. At that point, he becomes food and gets what he gets.

 

Similiarly, the danger of getting electrocuted from placing or removing a magnetic key safe from one of these items approaches zero. The danger would rise to 100% if a geocacher broke one of them open, but the chance of that happening also approaches zero.

 

Sorry, had to reply to this.

 

A tiger attack in the last year occurred. Wasn't supposed to happen as all the safety issues were brought up but amazingly it did and a kid died.

 

In Orlando zoo, go see the big gator enclosure. Notice the double fencing and a big gaping hole? Yeah, the gator did that. No one got hurt thankfully.

 

Why take a chance? All it takes is an unknown surge to occur and that thing can blow up at any time day or night. Electrical anomalies occur all the time and I've seen my share of these and transformers blow.

 

Then again, I am all for thinning of the herd

[+sbell111]

[+Smokiewolf]

Holy crap where did you find that dinosaur?

[Mushtang]

Sorry, had to reply to this.

 

A tiger attack in the last year occurred. Wasn't supposed to happen as all the safety issues were brought up but amazingly it did and a kid died.

 

In Orlando zoo, go see the big gator enclosure. Notice the double fencing and a big gaping hole? Yeah, the gator did that. No one got hurt thankfully.

 

Why take a chance? All it takes is an unknown surge to occur and that thing can blow up at any time day or night. Electrical anomalies occur all the time and I've seen my share of these and transformers blow.

 

Then again, I am all for thinning of the herd

So since someone died from a tiger attack in a zoo, are you now for removing all tigers from all zoos?

Should we remove all gators from zoos too?

 

So far zero people have been electrocuted because of a geocache, but it sounds like you're suggesting the chance taken with these hides is too high a risk.

 

I'm more worried about the traffic on the way to the transformer cache and the trip home than I am about the transformer blowing up while I happen to be looking for the cache.

[+Thrak]

Please........... make it go away. This thread died back in January. Let it die again.

[+Smokiewolf]

I was looking for hints on a cache that's hidden on one of these things and stumbled on it.

[fishdirt]

Sorry, had to reply to this.

 

A tiger attack in the last year occurred. Wasn't supposed to happen as all the safety issues were brought up but amazingly it did and a kid died.

 

In Orlando zoo, go see the big gator enclosure. Notice the double fencing and a big gaping hole? Yeah, the gator did that. No one got hurt thankfully.

 

Why take a chance? All it takes is an unknown surge to occur and that thing can blow up at any time day or night. Electrical anomalies occur all the time and I've seen my share of these and transformers blow.

 

Then again, I am all for thinning of the herd

So since someone died from a tiger attack in a zoo, are you now for removing all tigers from all zoos?

Should we remove all gators from zoos too?

 

So far zero people have been electrocuted because of a geocache, but it sounds like you're suggesting the chance taken with these hides is too high a risk.

 

I'm more worried about the traffic on the way to the transformer cache and the trip home than I am about the transformer blowing up while I happen to be looking for the cache.

 

Actually someone was as posted in another thread. As I said, thinning of the heard. There is random risk (as with tigers) and there is known risk (as with these boxes). Ya see, they put those little electrical shock stickers on those for a reason.

[+sbell111]

Actually someone was as posted in another thread. As I said, thinning of the heard. There is random risk (as with tigers) and there is known risk (as with these boxes). Ya see, they put those little electrical shock stickers on those for a reason.

How do you know that there's not a little sticker on the tiger?

[+sbell111]

Holy crap where did you find that dinosaur?

The defibrillator or the thread?

[Mushtang]

Sorry, had to reply to this.

 

A tiger attack in the last year occurred. Wasn't supposed to happen as all the safety issues were brought up but amazingly it did and a kid died.

 

In Orlando zoo, go see the big gator enclosure. Notice the double fencing and a big gaping hole? Yeah, the gator did that. No one got hurt thankfully.

 

Why take a chance? All it takes is an unknown surge to occur and that thing can blow up at any time day or night. Electrical anomalies occur all the time and I've seen my share of these and transformers blow.

 

Then again, I am all for thinning of the herd

So since someone died from a tiger attack in a zoo, are you now for removing all tigers from all zoos?

Should we remove all gators from zoos too?

 

So far zero people have been electrocuted because of a geocache, but it sounds like you're suggesting the chance taken with these hides is too high a risk.

 

I'm more worried about the traffic on the way to the transformer cache and the trip home than I am about the transformer blowing up while I happen to be looking for the cache.

 

Actually someone was as posted in another thread. As I said, thinning of the heard. There is random risk (as with tigers) and there is known risk (as with these boxes). Ya see, they put those little electrical shock stickers on those for a reason.

Got a link? The only report of a shock was someone who got a shock but only complained in their logs but still seemed to have fun. That's a lot different than getting electrocuted, or being killed by a tiger.

 

If Tigers are a random risk how are transformers a known risk? I think it's pretty random that anyone would get hurt around them, it's far from a known certainty. If the risk of electrocution from a transformer was a certainty, there would be huge fences around them keeping you from being able to touch them. You can't walk up to an electrical sub-station and start touching the equipment, those are actually dangerous and are much better protected.

 

And they put more than a sticker on a tiger enclosure. There are huge fences, moats, large signs, etc. You'd never see a tiger roaming the zoo with a sticker on it's head warning people to stay away from the teeth.

[Keystone]

There are multiple open threads that have been bumped recently, dealing with the same subject. The same points are being made in each thread. I flipped a reviewer coin, and chose to close this one.