Brain Freeze - Help! What are they called...

[+Glenn]

Safety gear is clearly needed. Caches on transformer boxes need to have a difficulty rating of 5. You wouldn't rate a cache on the side of a mountain that needs climbing gear to be reached any less. Why would you rate a cache were deadly shock is possible any lower?

The rating reflects the actual chance of danger, not the chance of possible danger. If the actual chance of electrical shock was unbelievably low, like it is with these whatchamacallits, then terrain rating should reflect that (perhaps with a terrain rating of 1.5 or so).

 

I'm not sure what rating system you are using but I am using the Geocache Rating System from http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/ where a difficulty 5 cache requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

I think he's saying it requires specialized safety equipment (cuz we know everyone who bumps into those things dies of electric shock) to obtain the cache.

 

Not everyone that climbs a mountain falls and not everyone who fall dies but you see climbers wearing safety gear when they climb and any cache hidden in such a place gets a difficulty 5 rating.

[+Mudfrog]

 

I've found three different names for these boxes.

Power Box

Transformer Cabinet

Conductor Termination Box

 

During my search for the name, I learned that these boxes can hold 120-480 volts and up to 3000 amps of electricity! I also learned that it takes about 10 milliamps to freeze your muscles (can't let go) and about 100 milliamps to kill you. A milliamp is 1/1000th of an amp.

 

Have fun finding your micros on the electrical boxes. You'll not see our name on the logs.

 

I've seen transformers receive 4160 volts at 200 amps, and that voltage is fatal, I witnessed an electrocution with a 4160 volt line.

 

Whenever the permission issue is brought up, the "defenders" go off on rambling tangents, and try to change the subject. These caches are popular because of the sheer number of transformer hides (usually 1/1s), and a good number of cachers who have low standards of entertainment.

Your remark is uncalled for. Like you, it isn't my favorite type of hide but it's not up to me to try and tell others that they shouldn't like them. I cache routinely with good friends who enjoy finding these types of hides. Yes, they like LPCs too. Even so, neither you nor i have a right to tell them that it's wrong or that they have "low standards of entertainment".

 

To reiterate what many have said, the green transformers shown in various portions of this thread are safe. The risk of getting hurt around one of these is very very low. There are plenty of things associated with caching that are inherently more unsafe than looking for and plucking a magnetic keybox off one of these babies.

 

My concern with these types of hides is that they most likely have been hidden without any kind of permission. I just cannot imagine a property owner or a utility company giving that permission. If in fact this is the case, then these caches do not meet current guidelines and should be archived!

[+Team Cotati]

 

I've found three different names for these boxes.

Power Box

Transformer Cabinet

Conductor Termination Box

 

During my search for the name, I learned that these boxes can hold 120-480 volts and up to 3000 amps of electricity! I also learned that it takes about 10 milliamps to freeze your muscles (can't let go) and about 100 milliamps to kill you. A milliamp is 1/1000th of an amp.

 

Have fun finding your micros on the electrical boxes. You'll not see our name on the logs.

 

I've seen transformers receive 4160 volts at 200 amps, and that voltage is fatal, I witnessed an electrocution with a 4160 volt line.

 

Whenever the permission issue is brought up, the "defenders" go off on rambling tangents, and try to change the subject. These caches are popular because of the sheer number of transformer hides (usually 1/1s), and a good number of cachers who have low standards of entertainment.

Your remark is uncalled for. Like you, it isn't my favorite type of hide but it's not up to me to try and tell others that they shouldn't like them. I cache routinely with good friends who enjoy finding these types of hides. Yes, they like LPCs too. Even so, neither you nor i have a right to tell them that it's wrong or that they have "low standards of entertainment".

 

To reiterate what many have said, the green transformers shown in various portions of this thread are safe. The risk of getting hurt around one of these is very very low. There are plenty of things associated with caching that are inherently more unsafe than looking for and plucking a magnetic keybox off one of these babies.

 

My concern with these types of hides is that they most likely have been hidden without any kind of permission. I just cannot imagine a property owner or a utility company giving that permission. If in fact this is the case, then these caches do not meet current guidelines and should be archived!

 

Should be, seldom if ever, are.

[Mushtang]

You guys have convinced me! These things are not dangerous most of the time, but since people do get killed every once in a great while it's just not worth the risk. The dangerously high voltage and amperage inside these things is not something you want to even be around, much less playing a game such as geocaching with! Every time a cacher gets killed we get another black eye. They should all be archived.

 

I don't think we should just stop with the transformers though. Anything with a high risk that people hide caches on, or near, should be considered off limits. We should definitely archive any caches that are on or near trees. All the ammo cans sitting at the base of a tree should be archived, and all fake birdhouses, pinecones, and anything else attached to a tree should be archived asap. These things are just waiting to go off at any second, killing children left and right. I mean, I've linked at least two articles of children being killed by trees, so it must be an epidemic by now.

 

Just as alarming is the safety of all our fellow cachers that play the game in the snow. This stuff can kill you just as dead as any electrical shock or rogue tree limb. Especially if you taunt it. You may get away with it for a while, but sooner or later it's going to jump over the fence and kill you. Even our children are not safe from snow. Any cache that is hidden in a part of the world that gets snow on a regular basis should be archived immediately. There's no telling when snow might strike next.

 

So, no caches on or near transformers, on or near trees, or in any place that snow is possible. Please, this is serious. I've got links and everything so it must be.

[+Glenn]

You guys have convinced me! These things are not dangerous most of the time, but since people do get killed every once in a great while it's just not worth the risk. The dangerously high voltage and amperage inside these things is not something you want to even be around, much less playing a game such as geocaching with! Every time a cacher gets killed we get another black eye. They should all be archived.

 

I don't think we should just stop with the transformers though. Anything with a high risk that people hide caches on, or near, should be considered off limits. We should definitely archive any caches that are on or near trees. All the ammo cans sitting at the base of a tree should be archived, and all fake birdhouses, pinecones, and anything else attached to a tree should be archived asap. These things are just waiting to go off at any second, killing children left and right. I mean, I've linked at least two articles of children being killed by trees, so it must be an epidemic by now.

 

Just as alarming is the safety of all our fellow cachers that play the game in the snow. This stuff can kill you just as dead as any electrical shock or rogue tree limb. Especially if you taunt it. You may get away with it for a while, but sooner or later it's going to jump over the fence and kill you. Even our children are not safe from snow. Any cache that is hidden in a part of the world that gets snow on a regular basis should be archived immediately. There's no telling when snow might strike next.

 

So, no caches on or near transformers, on or near trees, or in any place that snow is possible. Please, this is serious. I've got links and everything so it must be.

 

I was with you until read the articles you linked to. One says "freak accident" and another says "one-in-a-million chance accident". Those minor facts aside. Rate the cache properly. The higher a cache is located in a tree the higher the difficulty rating should be. And the snow changing the cache rating issue has been discussed in other threads.

[+geowizerd]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

 

Name one.

 

Plenty of caches reside on private property.

 

Yes, and they need PERMISSION to be placed there, don't they? I'd be willing to bet that just about every power company in America has a similar policy to the ones I quoted on the previous page. Call yours and ask them.

Edited January 27, 2008 by geowizerd

[+Rockin Roddy]

You guys have convinced me! These things are not dangerous most of the time, but since people do get killed every once in a great while it's just not worth the risk. The dangerously high voltage and amperage inside these things is not something you want to even be around, much less playing a game such as geocaching with! Every time a cacher gets killed we get another black eye. They should all be archived.

 

I don't think we should just stop with the transformers though. Anything with a high risk that people hide caches on, or near, should be considered off limits. We should definitely archive any caches that are on or near trees. All the ammo cans sitting at the base of a tree should be archived, and all fake birdhouses, pinecones, and anything else attached to a tree should be archived asap. These things are just waiting to go off at any second, killing children left and right. I mean, I've linked at least two articles of children being killed by trees, so it must be an epidemic by now.

 

Just as alarming is the safety of all our fellow cachers that play the game in the snow. This stuff can kill you just as dead as any electrical shock or rogue tree limb. Especially if you taunt it. You may get away with it for a while, but sooner or later it's going to jump over the fence and kill you. Even our children are not safe from snow. Any cache that is hidden in a part of the world that gets snow on a regular basis should be archived immediately. There's no telling when snow might strike next.

 

So, no caches on or near transformers, on or near trees, or in any place that snow is possible. Please, this is serious. I've got links and everything so it must be.

 

IF I understand the strawman thingy, I'd guess this comment is one?

[Mushtang]

I was with you until read the articles you linked to. One says "freak accident" and another says "one-in-a-million chance accident".

Yup, that was pretty much my point. Or are you suggesting that the folks that got killed by these transformers was not a one in a million freak accident? It doesn't seem like they're any more dangerous than that.

 

Those minor facts aside. Rate the cache properly. The higher a cache is located in a tree the higher the difficulty rating should be. And the snow changing the cache rating issue has been discussed in other threads.

Heck no, let's not rate them properly, let's get them archived. They're killing people and shouldn't be allowed to remain.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I was with you until read the articles you linked to. One says "freak accident" and another says "one-in-a-million chance accident".

Yup, that was pretty much my point. Or are you suggesting that the folks that got killed by these transformers was not a one in a million freak accident? It doesn't seem like they're any more dangerous than that.

 

Those minor facts aside. Rate the cache properly. The higher a cache is located in a tree the higher the difficulty rating should be. And the snow changing the cache rating issue has been discussed in other threads.

Heck no, let's not rate them properly, let's get them archived. They're killing people and shouldn't be allowed to remain.

 

Why is it that the permission for placing a cache on a transformer wouldn't likely be given by the power co?? Is it because they don't want to let kids have fun? Is it because they cherish their boxes so much, they want others to not enjoy them? Or, is it because of the potential for danger?

[Mushtang]

Why is it that the permission for placing a cache on a transformer wouldn't likely be given by the power co?? Is it because they don't want to let kids have fun? Is it because they cherish their boxes so much, they want others to not enjoy them? Or, is it because of the potential for danger?

It's because they're so dangerous. When you walk up to them all the built up electricity makes them really shake, and if you're dumb enough to touch one you get killed. That's why we should archive all the caches that are on transformers.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Why is it that the permission for placing a cache on a transformer wouldn't likely be given by the power co?? Is it because they don't want to let kids have fun? Is it because they cherish their boxes so much, they want others to not enjoy them? Or, is it because of the potential for danger?

It's because they're so dangerous. When you walk up to them all the built up electricity makes them really shake, and if you're dumb enough to touch one you get killed. That's why we should archive all the caches that are on transformers.

I agree wholeheartedly!!

[+Team Cotati]

You guys have convinced me! These things are not dangerous most of the time, but since people do get killed every once in a great while it's just not worth the risk. The dangerously high voltage and amperage inside these things is not something you want to even be around, much less playing a game such as geocaching with! Every time a cacher gets killed we get another black eye. They should all be archived.

 

I don't think we should just stop with the transformers though. Anything with a high risk that people hide caches on, or near, should be considered off limits. We should definitely archive any caches that are on or near trees. All the ammo cans sitting at the base of a tree should be archived, and all fake birdhouses, pinecones, and anything else attached to a tree should be archived asap. These things are just waiting to go off at any second, killing children left and right. I mean, I've linked at least two articles of children being killed by trees, so it must be an epidemic by now.

 

Just as alarming is the safety of all our fellow cachers that play the game in the snow. This stuff can kill you just as dead as any electrical shock or rogue tree limb. Especially if you taunt it. You may get away with it for a while, but sooner or later it's going to jump over the fence and kill you. Even our children are not safe from snow. Any cache that is hidden in a part of the world that gets snow on a regular basis should be archived immediately. There's no telling when snow might strike next.

 

So, no caches on or near transformers, on or near trees, or in any place that snow is possible. Please, this is serious. I've got links and everything so it must be.

 

If there ever was any doubt, that is now erased.

[+FireRef]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

[+Too Tall John]

ORANGE AND ROCKLAND UTILITIES, INC.

ROCKLAND ELECTRIC COMPANY

PIKE COUNTY LIGHT & POWER COMPANY

 

18. Unauthorized Attachments to Poles.

The Company forbids any unauthorized attachments to its poles and equipment, such as

banners, signs, clothes lines, antennas, basketball hoops, lighting fixtures, etc. It

forbids the use of its poles for placards, political posters or any advertising

matter. The Company will remove any such unauthorized attachments without

notice and may prosecute such trespassing.

The Company forbids any work by contractors on its poles or any Company-owned equipment without specific written authorization.

 

TXU Electric Delivery Company

Attachments to Company Facilities

Company does not permit any attachments (such as wires, ropes, signs,

banners, or radio equipment) to Company facilities by others except when

authorized in writing by Company.

 

Beaches Energy Services

1460 Shetter Avenue

Jacksonville Beach, Florida 32250

 

Private Use of BES’s Facilities Prohibited

Except as permitted by contract with other entities, or by written permission for temporary public or quasi-public functions, no person or entity shall use BES’s poles, wires, towers, structures, or other facilities for the purpose of fastening, attaching, or supporting any equipment, wires, ropes, signs, banners, or other facilities. BES shall have the right to order such items removed, or to remove the items and bill the person or entity for the expense of such removal. BES shall not be liable for any damage to the items as a result of the removal.

1.17 Alterations or Additions to Consumer’

 

SUMTER ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE

 

Unauthorized Attachments

SECO prohibits any attachments to its poles or other equipment unless specifically authorized by agreement.

Such attachments include, but are not limited to fences, banners, signs, clothes lines, basketball backboards,

antennas, placards, political posters or any advertising matter. SECO will remove unauthorized

attachments without notice. Meter sockets and Customer's electric service risers are not to be attached to

SECO poles, except where permitted by SECO.

SECO forbids any work on or access to any of its facilities without authorization.

 

FLORIDA STATUTE 812.14 STATES "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO WILLFULLY ALTER, TAMPER WITH,

INJURE, OR KNOWINGLY SUFFER TO BE INJURED ANY METER, METER SEAL, PIPE CONDUIT,

WIRE, LINE, CABLE, TRANSFORMER...

 

PROGRESS ENERGY COMPANY (Florida)

 

Attachments to Poles Prohibited:

Customers and others are forbidden to use the Company's poles or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting wires, signs, or things of any nature, or to locate any such things in such proximity to the Company's facilities as to cause, or to be likely to cause, interference with the Company's operations or a dangerous condition. The Company shall have the right to remove any unauthorized attachments without notice and without liability for damages arising from such removal.

 

Long Island Power Authority

 

UNAUTHORIZED ATTACHMENTS TO POLES

3.11.1 There is a law prohibiting, and LIPA forbids, the unauthorized attachment of any flags,

banners, signs, clotheslines, antennas, etc., to any of its poles, towers, vaults, surface mounted

equipment or manholes. It forbids the use of its poles for placards or other advertising matter.

LIPA will remove any such unauthorized

attachments without notice and may prosecute any such trespassing.

3.11.2 LIPA forbids any work by contractors on its poles, towers, vaults, surface mounted

equipment or manholes without specific authorization.

 

CLECO POWER LLC Pineville, LA

 

Foreign Attachments to Company Poles and Equipment:

Attachments to the Company poles or equipment such as conduits, banners, fire alarms, signs, traffic lights, power and/or telephone wires, and other attachments may be made only with approval of the Company. An attachment agreement with the Company will set forth any criteria. All attachments are to be made with permission and to the satisfaction of the Company. All such attachments must be made in accordance with the specifications of public authorities and NESC where required. Under no conditions shall television or radio antennas be allowed on Company poles.

 

FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY

 

5.4 Attachments to Poles. The use of the Company's poles, wires, towers, structures or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting any radio or television aerials or other equipment, or any wires, ropes, signs, banners or other things, not necessary to the supplying by the Company of electric service to the community, or the locating of same in such proximity to the Company's property or facilities as to cause, or be likely to cause, interference with the supply of electric service, or a dangerous condition in connection therewith, is prohibited, and the Company shall have the right forthwith to remove same without notice. The violator of these rules is liable for any damage resulting therefrom.

 

Now, who STILL thinks they have permission, expessly, or implied? :rolleyes;

Thank you for the research!

 

Having talked with utility workers in my area, I happen to know that Central Maine Power and Public Services of New Hampshire also have policies expressly disallowing such things.

 

Anyone still arguing that they can place these hides because "it isn't that dangerous" lust plain look silly, 'cuz regardless of how safe it is, it just plain isn't allowed!

[+Rockin Roddy]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

When "everyone's fun" is being done illegally and potentially on dangerous objects like transformers and electric panals, it NEEDS to be stopped! It's this attitude (turn a blind eye and pretend all is well) which bothers me most! What you're saying basically is "be damned with the laws and guidelines, let us do as we please".

 

As one said...at least you KNOW the potential for danger on a 5/5 cache...do these ever get that rating???

 

As has been demonstrated w/o a doubt, these hides are illegal. Maybe someone should report one of these caches to the power co and let them deal with it?? I mean, OBVIOUSLY, the persons hiding these either don't know...or don't care. Seems nothing will be done until someone steps up and puts a stop to it. OR...maybe GS should step up and end this by banning these hides? After all, it's their image which is in jeopardy!

[+FireRef]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

When "everyone's fun" is being done illegally and potentially on dangerous objects like transformers and electric panals, it NEEDS to be stopped! It's this attitude (turn a blind eye and pretend all is well) which bothers me most! What you're saying basically is "be damned with the laws and guidelines, let us do as we please".

 

As one said...at least you KNOW the potential for danger on a 5/5 cache...do these ever get that rating???

 

As has been demonstrated w/o a doubt, these hides are illegal. Maybe someone should report one of these caches to the power co and let them deal with it?? I mean, OBVIOUSLY, the persons hiding these either don't know...or don't care. Seems nothing will be done until someone steps up and puts a stop to it. OR...maybe GS should step up and end this by banning these hides? After all, it's their image which is in jeopardy!

 

Please note, after all of that, your sig file says the same thing that my one liner did...

[+geowizerd]

Why is it that the permission for placing a cache on a transformer wouldn't likely be given by the power co?? Is it because they don't want to let kids have fun? Is it because they cherish their boxes so much, they want others to not enjoy them? Or, is it because of the potential for danger?

It's because they're so dangerous. When you walk up to them all the built up electricity makes them really shake, and if you're dumb enough to touch one you get killed. That's why we should archive all the caches that are on transformers.

 

No, we should archive them all because they are illegally on private property without permission.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

When "everyone's fun" is being done illegally and potentially on dangerous objects like transformers and electric panals, it NEEDS to be stopped! It's this attitude (turn a blind eye and pretend all is well) which bothers me most! What you're saying basically is "be damned with the laws and guidelines, let us do as we please".

 

As one said...at least you KNOW the potential for danger on a 5/5 cache...do these ever get that rating???

 

As has been demonstrated w/o a doubt, these hides are illegal. Maybe someone should report one of these caches to the power co and let them deal with it?? I mean, OBVIOUSLY, the persons hiding these either don't know...or don't care. Seems nothing will be done until someone steps up and puts a stop to it. OR...maybe GS should step up and end this by banning these hides? After all, it's their image which is in jeopardy!

 

Please note, after all of that, your sig file says the same thing that my one liner did...

 

And what does my last line say??

[Mushtang]

Why is it that the permission for placing a cache on a transformer wouldn't likely be given by the power co?? Is it because they don't want to let kids have fun? Is it because they cherish their boxes so much, they want others to not enjoy them? Or, is it because of the potential for danger?

It's because they're so dangerous. When you walk up to them all the built up electricity makes them really shake, and if you're dumb enough to touch one you get killed. That's why we should archive all the caches that are on transformers.

I agree wholeheartedly!!

 

[+geowizerd]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

When "everyone's fun" is being done illegally and potentially on dangerous objects like transformers and electric panals, it NEEDS to be stopped! It's this attitude (turn a blind eye and pretend all is well) which bothers me most! What you're saying basically is "be damned with the laws and guidelines, let us do as we please".

 

As one said...at least you KNOW the potential for danger on a 5/5 cache...do these ever get that rating???

 

As has been demonstrated w/o a doubt, these hides are illegal. Maybe someone should report one of these caches to the power co and let them deal with it?? I mean, OBVIOUSLY, the persons hiding these either don't know...or don't care. Seems nothing will be done until someone steps up and puts a stop to it. OR...maybe GS should step up and end this by banning these hides? After all, it's their image which is in jeopardy!

 

Please note, after all of that, your sig file says the same thing that my one liner did...

 

Did you mean his tag line that said "Is ANY cache really worth breaking the law for??" I agree completely!

[+geowizerd]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

When "everyone's fun" is being done illegally and potentially on dangerous objects like transformers and electric panals, it NEEDS to be stopped! It's this attitude (turn a blind eye and pretend all is well) which bothers me most! What you're saying basically is "be damned with the laws and guidelines, let us do as we please".

 

As one said...at least you KNOW the potential for danger on a 5/5 cache...do these ever get that rating???

 

As has been demonstrated w/o a doubt, these hides are illegal. Maybe someone should report one of these caches to the power co and let them deal with it?? I mean, OBVIOUSLY, the persons hiding these either don't know...or don't care. Seems nothing will be done until someone steps up and puts a stop to it. OR...maybe GS should step up and end this by banning these hides? After all, it's their image which is in jeopardy!

 

Just start submitting SBA's on the ones you come across.

[+uxorious]

It seems a lot of posters here are blurring two separate issues, safety and permission. Just because they wouldn't give permission for such a hide does not mean the risk is of any real concern.

 

I won't argue with any one who objects to a cache that hasn't got the proper permission. However, the real potential for danger is not indicated by lack of permission. The power company doesn't want you to put ads, yard sale signs, campaign posters, etc, on power poles. Not because it is a hazard to you, but because it is a hazard to the linemen. (and some places, there are so many signs it can actually damage the pole.)

 

I wouldn't place this type of hide myself. However if for some reason I felt one was needed and thought about it, the lack of permission, not safety would be the reason it wouldn't be placed.

 

If I was near one of these things, I wouldn't hesitate to lean against it to clean something off my shoe I had stepped in, or to retrieve a Frisbee that landed on top of it.

 

Permission absolutely needed, danger not a real concern. Two separate issues.

[+Glenn]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

 

Are you suggesting that a cache not be rated appropriately? Rating a cache appropriately isn't ruining anyones fun. In fact it does just the opposite.

 

Can you climb a cliff face without taking measure to protect yourself from falling? Yes. Does this mean that the cache should have a difficulty rating less than 5? No.

Can you swim to a island a couple 100 feet out in a lake without taking precautions to protect you from drowning? Yes. Does this mean that a cache should have a difficulty rating of less than 5? No.

Can you poke around a transformer box without taking step to protect yourself from shock? Yes. Does this mean that the cache should have a difficulty of 1? No.

 

Permission is a separate factor and doesn't have an affect on difficulty. Having permission, expressed or implied, shouldn't change the difficulty rating.

 

ORANGE AND ROCKLAND UTILITIES, INC.

ROCKLAND ELECTRIC COMPANY

PIKE COUNTY LIGHT & POWER COMPANY

 

18. Unauthorized Attachments to Poles.

The Company forbids any unauthorized attachments to its poles and equipment, such as

banners, signs, clothes lines, antennas, basketball hoops, lighting fixtures, etc. It

forbids the use of its poles for placards, political posters or any advertising

matter. The Company will remove any such unauthorized attachments without

notice and may prosecute such trespassing.

The Company forbids any work by contractors on its poles or any Company-owned equipment without specific written authorization.

 

TXU Electric Delivery Company

Attachments to Company Facilities

Company does not permit any attachments (such as wires, ropes, signs,

banners, or radio equipment) to Company facilities by others except when

authorized in writing by Company.

 

Beaches Energy Services

1460 Shetter Avenue

Jacksonville Beach, Florida 32250

 

Private Use of BES’s Facilities Prohibited

Except as permitted by contract with other entities, or by written permission for temporary public or quasi-public functions, no person or entity shall use BES’s poles, wires, towers, structures, or other facilities for the purpose of fastening, attaching, or supporting any equipment, wires, ropes, signs, banners, or other facilities. BES shall have the right to order such items removed, or to remove the items and bill the person or entity for the expense of such removal. BES shall not be liable for any damage to the items as a result of the removal.

1.17 Alterations or Additions to Consumer’

 

SUMTER ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE

 

Unauthorized Attachments

SECO prohibits any attachments to its poles or other equipment unless specifically authorized by agreement.

Such attachments include, but are not limited to fences, banners, signs, clothes lines, basketball backboards,

antennas, placards, political posters or any advertising matter. SECO will remove unauthorized

attachments without notice. Meter sockets and Customer's electric service risers are not to be attached to

SECO poles, except where permitted by SECO.

SECO forbids any work on or access to any of its facilities without authorization.

 

FLORIDA STATUTE 812.14 STATES "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO WILLFULLY ALTER, TAMPER WITH,

INJURE, OR KNOWINGLY SUFFER TO BE INJURED ANY METER, METER SEAL, PIPE CONDUIT,

WIRE, LINE, CABLE, TRANSFORMER...

 

PROGRESS ENERGY COMPANY (Florida)

 

Attachments to Poles Prohibited:

Customers and others are forbidden to use the Company's poles or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting wires, signs, or things of any nature, or to locate any such things in such proximity to the Company's facilities as to cause, or to be likely to cause, interference with the Company's operations or a dangerous condition. The Company shall have the right to remove any unauthorized attachments without notice and without liability for damages arising from such removal.

 

Long Island Power Authority

 

UNAUTHORIZED ATTACHMENTS TO POLES

3.11.1 There is a law prohibiting, and LIPA forbids, the unauthorized attachment of any flags,

banners, signs, clotheslines, antennas, etc., to any of its poles, towers, vaults, surface mounted

equipment or manholes. It forbids the use of its poles for placards or other advertising matter.

LIPA will remove any such unauthorized

attachments without notice and may prosecute any such trespassing.

3.11.2 LIPA forbids any work by contractors on its poles, towers, vaults, surface mounted

equipment or manholes without specific authorization.

 

CLECO POWER LLC Pineville, LA

 

Foreign Attachments to Company Poles and Equipment:

Attachments to the Company poles or equipment such as conduits, banners, fire alarms, signs, traffic lights, power and/or telephone wires, and other attachments may be made only with approval of the Company. An attachment agreement with the Company will set forth any criteria. All attachments are to be made with permission and to the satisfaction of the Company. All such attachments must be made in accordance with the specifications of public authorities and NESC where required. Under no conditions shall television or radio antennas be allowed on Company poles.

 

FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY

 

5.4 Attachments to Poles. The use of the Company's poles, wires, towers, structures or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting any radio or television aerials or other equipment, or any wires, ropes, signs, banners or other things, not necessary to the supplying by the Company of electric service to the community, or the locating of same in such proximity to the Company's property or facilities as to cause, or be likely to cause, interference with the supply of electric service, or a dangerous condition in connection therewith, is prohibited, and the Company shall have the right forthwith to remove same without notice. The violator of these rules is liable for any damage resulting therefrom.

 

Now, who STILL thinks they have permission, expessly, or implied? :rolleyes;

Thank you for the research!

 

Having talked with utility workers in my area, I happen to know that Central Maine Power and Public Services of New Hampshire also have policies expressly disallowing such things.

 

Anyone still arguing that they can place these hides because "it isn't that dangerous" lust plain look silly, 'cuz regardless of how safe it is, it just plain isn't allowed!

 

I wonder how the ones arguing that transformer boxes that are in public places (beside side walks, in public parks, etc) are fair game to use for other purposes than what they are intended feel when someone uses geocaches for purposes other than what we intend them to be used for?

[Rostropovich]

ORANGE AND ROCKLAND UTILITIES, INC.

ROCKLAND ELECTRIC COMPANY

PIKE COUNTY LIGHT & POWER COMPANY

 

18. Unauthorized Attachments to Poles.

The Company forbids any unauthorized attachments to its poles and equipment, such as

banners, signs, clothes lines, antennas, basketball hoops, lighting fixtures, etc. It

forbids the use of its poles for placards, political posters or any advertising

matter. The Company will remove any such unauthorized attachments without

notice and may prosecute such trespassing.

The Company forbids any work by contractors on its poles or any Company-owned equipment without specific written authorization.

 

TXU Electric Delivery Company

Attachments to Company Facilities

Company does not permit any attachments (such as wires, ropes, signs,

banners, or radio equipment) to Company facilities by others except when

authorized in writing by Company.

 

Beaches Energy Services

1460 Shetter Avenue

Jacksonville Beach, Florida 32250

 

Private Use of BES’s Facilities Prohibited

Except as permitted by contract with other entities, or by written permission for temporary public or quasi-public functions, no person or entity shall use BES’s poles, wires, towers, structures, or other facilities for the purpose of fastening, attaching, or supporting any equipment, wires, ropes, signs, banners, or other facilities. BES shall have the right to order such items removed, or to remove the items and bill the person or entity for the expense of such removal. BES shall not be liable for any damage to the items as a result of the removal.

1.17 Alterations or Additions to Consumer’

 

SUMTER ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE

 

Unauthorized Attachments

SECO prohibits any attachments to its poles or other equipment unless specifically authorized by agreement.

Such attachments include, but are not limited to fences, banners, signs, clothes lines, basketball backboards,

antennas, placards, political posters or any advertising matter. SECO will remove unauthorized

attachments without notice. Meter sockets and Customer's electric service risers are not to be attached to

SECO poles, except where permitted by SECO.

SECO forbids any work on or access to any of its facilities without authorization.

 

FLORIDA STATUTE 812.14 STATES "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO WILLFULLY ALTER, TAMPER WITH,

INJURE, OR KNOWINGLY SUFFER TO BE INJURED ANY METER, METER SEAL, PIPE CONDUIT,

WIRE, LINE, CABLE, TRANSFORMER...

 

PROGRESS ENERGY COMPANY (Florida)

 

Attachments to Poles Prohibited:

Customers and others are forbidden to use the Company's poles or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting wires, signs, or things of any nature, or to locate any such things in such proximity to the Company's facilities as to cause, or to be likely to cause, interference with the Company's operations or a dangerous condition. The Company shall have the right to remove any unauthorized attachments without notice and without liability for damages arising from such removal.

 

Long Island Power Authority

 

UNAUTHORIZED ATTACHMENTS TO POLES

3.11.1 There is a law prohibiting, and LIPA forbids, the unauthorized attachment of any flags,

banners, signs, clotheslines, antennas, etc., to any of its poles, towers, vaults, surface mounted

equipment or manholes. It forbids the use of its poles for placards or other advertising matter.

LIPA will remove any such unauthorized

attachments without notice and may prosecute any such trespassing.

3.11.2 LIPA forbids any work by contractors on its poles, towers, vaults, surface mounted

equipment or manholes without specific authorization.

 

CLECO POWER LLC Pineville, LA

 

Foreign Attachments to Company Poles and Equipment:

Attachments to the Company poles or equipment such as conduits, banners, fire alarms, signs, traffic lights, power and/or telephone wires, and other attachments may be made only with approval of the Company. An attachment agreement with the Company will set forth any criteria. All attachments are to be made with permission and to the satisfaction of the Company. All such attachments must be made in accordance with the specifications of public authorities and NESC where required. Under no conditions shall television or radio antennas be allowed on Company poles.

 

FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY

 

5.4 Attachments to Poles. The use of the Company's poles, wires, towers, structures or other facilities for the purpose of fastening or supporting any radio or television aerials or other equipment, or any wires, ropes, signs, banners or other things, not necessary to the supplying by the Company of electric service to the community, or the locating of same in such proximity to the Company's property or facilities as to cause, or be likely to cause, interference with the supply of electric service, or a dangerous condition in connection therewith, is prohibited, and the Company shall have the right forthwith to remove same without notice. The violator of these rules is liable for any damage resulting therefrom.

 

Now, who STILL thinks they have permission, expessly, or implied? :rolleyes;

Thank you for the research!

 

Having talked with utility workers in my area, I happen to know that Central Maine Power and Public Services of New Hampshire also have policies expressly disallowing such things.

 

Anyone still arguing that they can place these hides because "it isn't that dangerous" lust plain look silly, 'cuz regardless of how safe it is, it just plain isn't allowed!

 

These caches should not be placed, not because they may be dangerous, but because it is illegal to do so.

Geocachers and other people should not break the law intentionally. Since, with this research, we all now know that it is illegal, at least in Florida an LA with other similar laws undoubtedly in effect wherever you are, we should not be placing these caches. If the cache owner wants to continue breaking the law let them keep their caches, or they can be good citizens and archive the caches. Leaving them to me is leading people astray. We should not be placing these caches Bottom line is It is illegal and therefore should not be done

Edited January 27, 2008 by Rostropovich

[+sbell111]

You guys have convinced me! These things are not dangerous most of the time, but since people do get killed every once in a great while it's just not worth the risk. The dangerously high voltage and amperage inside these things is not something you want to even be around, much less playing a game such as geocaching with! Every time a cacher gets killed we get another black eye. They should all be archived.

 

I don't think we should just stop with the transformers though. Anything with a high risk that people hide caches on, or near, should be considered off limits. We should definitely archive any caches that are on or near trees. All the ammo cans sitting at the base of a tree should be archived, and all fake birdhouses, pinecones, and anything else attached to a tree should be archived asap. These things are just waiting to go off at any second, killing children left and right. I mean, I've linked at least two articles of children being killed by trees, so it must be an epidemic by now.

 

Just as alarming is the safety of all our fellow cachers that play the game in the snow. This stuff can kill you just as dead as any electrical shock or rogue tree limb. Especially if you taunt it. You may get away with it for a while, but sooner or later it's going to jump over the fence and kill you. Even our children are not safe from snow. Any cache that is hidden in a part of the world that gets snow on a regular basis should be archived immediately. There's no telling when snow might strike next.

 

So, no caches on or near transformers, on or near trees, or in any place that snow is possible. Please, this is serious. I've got links and everything so it must be.

You've convinced me, but I don't think that we can stop with what you suggested.

 

Every summer, many people die from the heat. Therefore, all caches in the southern US should be immediately archived for our own good.

Edited January 27, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

[+sbell111]

Since leaving the house (or even being in your house) is inherently packed with danger, why don't we ask that they just archive all caches and take the website down. It's promoting a dangerous activity in which people are hurt or possibly killed all the time, or at the very least, could be.

 

Seriously folks - stop trying to regulate everyone's fun. Some people like LPC's, some don't. Some like transformer caches, some don't. Some like 5/5 climb a mountain or kayak down a river caches, some don't. Hunt what you like, ignore what you don't, and let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

I like that last line so much I'm going to add it to my sig file.

Are you suggesting that a cache not be rated appropriately? Rating a cache appropriately isn't ruining anyones fun. In fact it does just the opposite.

 

Can you climb a cliff face without taking measure to protect yourself from falling? Yes. Does this mean that the cache should have a difficulty rating less than 5? No.

Can you swim to a island a couple 100 feet out in a lake without taking precautions to protect you from drowning? Yes. Does this mean that a cache should have a difficulty rating of less than 5? No.

Can you poke around a transformer box without taking step to protect yourself from shock? Yes. Does this mean that the cache should have a difficulty of 1? No.

I don't think the difficulty rating means what you think it does.

 

Even if you were talking about the terrain rating, I would mention that there is a difference between potential danger and possible danger. You can't give every cache a rating of five just because life has some element of potential danger.

Permission is a separate factor and doesn't have an affect on difficulty. Having permission, expressed or implied, shouldn't change the difficulty rating.

Agreed.

I wonder how the ones arguing that transformer boxes that are in public places (beside side walks, in public parks, etc) are fair game to use for other purposes than what they are intended feel when someone uses geocaches for purposes other than what we intend them to be used for?

I wonder if you would be having the same argument if we were talking about a match container sitting right next to a watchamacallit box instead of assuming a magnetic key holder stuck to it. Edited January 27, 2008 by sbell111

[+geowizerd]

 

Every summer, many people die from the heat. Therefore, all caches in teh souther US should be immediately archived for our own good.

 

Ahh, the Red Herring Approach once again! Have you even read the posts on this page before spewing (no pun intended!)? It is the PERMISSION and ILLEGAL TRESSPASSING issues that should cause these to be archived. If you want to take the chance of getting electrocuted, by all means, go pull the lid off your panel box and start playing. 220 is plenty enough to fry ya. But these transformer hides are undoubtedly illegal tresspassing hides, placed on private property without permission. This is in clear violation of the guidelines for placing caches, is it not?

 

Come on, if you guys were creative enough to come up with the transformer idea, you can surely come up with something that doesn't violate the rules. And there are still plenty of guardrails, phone booths and newspaper machines out there. Of course, those last two are also private property...

Edited January 27, 2008 by geowizerd

[+sbell111]

Every summer, many people die from the heat. Therefore, all caches in the southern US should be immediately archived for our own good.

Ahh, the Red Herring Approach once again! Have you even read the posts on this page before spewing (no pun intended!)? It is the PERMISSION and ILLEGAL TRESSPASSING issues that should cause these to be archived. If you want to take the chance of getting electrocuted, by all means, go pull the lid off your panel box and start playing. 220 is plenty enough to fry ya. But these transformer hides are undoubtedly illegal tresspassing hides, placed on private property without permission. This is in clear violation of the guidelines for placing caches, is it not?

 

Come on, if you guys were creative enough to come up with the transformer idea, you can surely come up with something that doesn't violate the rules. And there are still plety of guardrails, phone booths and newspaper machines out there. Of course, those last two are also private property...

First of all, I'm not sure that it's a red herring, since more people die from the heat in a year than get fried by a green box in a decade.

 

Regarding your other issue, keep reading.

Edited January 27, 2008 by sbell111

[+geowizerd]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

 

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

[+sbell111]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

[+geowizerd]

Every summer, many people die from the heat. Therefore, all caches in the southern US should be immediately archived for our own good.

Ahh, the Red Herring Approach once again! Have you even read the posts on this page before spewing (no pun intended!)? It is the PERMISSION and ILLEGAL TRESSPASSING issues that should cause these to be archived. If you want to take the chance of getting electrocuted, by all means, go pull the lid off your panel box and start playing. 220 is plenty enough to fry ya. But these transformer hides are undoubtedly illegal tresspassing hides, placed on private property without permission. This is in clear violation of the guidelines for placing caches, is it not?

 

Come on, if you guys were creative enough to come up with the transformer idea, you can surely come up with something that doesn't violate the rules. And there are still plety of guardrails, phone booths and newspaper machines out there. Of course, those last two are also private property...

First of all, I'm not sure that it's a red herring, since more people die from the heat in a year than get fried by a green box in a decade.

 

Regarding your other issue, keep reading.

 

Keep reading what? "This post has been edited by sbell111: Today, 02:59 PM"???

[+geowizerd]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

 

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

[+sbell111]

Every summer, many people die from the heat. Therefore, all caches in the southern US should be immediately archived for our own good.

Ahh, the Red Herring Approach once again! Have you even read the posts on this page before spewing (no pun intended!)? It is the PERMISSION and ILLEGAL TRESSPASSING issues that should cause these to be archived. If you want to take the chance of getting electrocuted, by all means, go pull the lid off your panel box and start playing. 220 is plenty enough to fry ya. But these transformer hides are undoubtedly illegal tresspassing hides, placed on private property without permission. This is in clear violation of the guidelines for placing caches, is it not?

 

Come on, if you guys were creative enough to come up with the transformer idea, you can surely come up with something that doesn't violate the rules. And there are still plety of guardrails, phone booths and newspaper machines out there. Of course, those last two are also private property...

First of all, I'm not sure that it's a red herring, since more people die from the heat in a year than get fried by a green box in a decade.

 

Regarding your other issue, keep reading.

Keep reading what? "This post has been edited by sbell111: Today, 02:59 PM"???

Keep reading until you come to the posts that dealt with the issue you wanted to discuss.

[+sbell111]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

 

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

Are you taking the position that no one has ever died while eating a croissant? Henry Heimlich would spin in his grave if you meant that (if he were dead).

 

BTW, Roberto Villegas died while eating a croissant. I'm sure that lots of people have died either while eating a croissant or from eating croissants.

[+geowizerd]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

 

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

Are you taking the position that no one has ever died while eating a croissant? Henry Heimlich would spin in his grave if you meant that (if he were dead).

 

BTW, Roberto Villegas died while eating a croissant. I'm sure that lots of people have died either while eating a croissant or from eating croissants.

 

What did he die OF? Was it the pastry that killed him, or did he coincidently have a heart attack or stroke while eating?

 

I took your advice, though, and did some more reading. Here's what I found in 15 minutes:

 

CLECO

2030 Donahue Ferry Road,

Pineville, LA 71361

 

Teach children to recognize "Danger-High Voltage" signs and to stay away from power lines, substations and pad-mounted transformers. (Pad-mounted transformers are encased in metal on slabs of concrete in areas where there is underground electrical wiring.) Guess they should have worded this geocahers and children, eh?

 

PEPCO

701 Ninth St., NW

Washington, D.C. 20068

 

What are some electricity dangers outdoors?

 

Although lightning is extremely dangerous, current electricity is the greatest electrical danger outdoors. Current electricity includes all outdoor wires, outlets and power lines. It's important to stay away from any power lines, substations or pad-mounted transformers (green metal boxes).

 

Cuivre River Electric Cooperative

Troy Lake Saint Louis Harvester Missouri

 

Remind children to not play on or near pad mount transformers.

 

LOWES WEBSITE

 

Teach your kids to recognize "Danger" signs and not to climb in trees if power lines pass through or near them. They should also know that pad-mounted transformers (those metal cabinets on concrete pads) are not safe places to play.

 

ElecSafe.info Website

http://www.elecsafe.info/powerlines.html

 

What is that mysterious big green metal box behind the hedge on the corner?

It may be electrical equipment installed there by the utility company to help deliver electricity to your home from the high voltage lines near your neighbourhood. They should be marked with yellow labels as an electrical hazard and children should be taught to leave them alone.

 

Don't kids also geocache? Don't they learn from what they see their parents do? "If daddy can mess around with those, they must be okay."

 

NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION WEBSITE

 

Stay away from overhead or buried power lines.

Stay away from power lines, substations and pad-mounted transformers.

 

Marquette Board of Light and Power

Marquette, MI

 

Teach your kids to recognize "Danger" signs and not to climb in trees if power lines pass through or near them. They should also know that pad-mounted transformers (those metal cabinets on concrete pads) are not safe places to play. (Seems Lowe's stole this verbatim)

 

But let's get back to addressing the PERMISSION ISSUE. What happened to you "explaining your position", as you called it, IIRR. Just what was that "position" again?

Edited January 28, 2008 by geowizerd

[+Rockin Roddy]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

 

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

Are you taking the position that no one has ever died while eating a croissant? Henry Heimlich would spin in his grave if you meant that (if he were dead).

 

BTW, Roberto Villegas died while eating a croissant. I'm sure that lots of people have died either while eating a croissant or from eating croissants.

 

What did he die OF? Was it the pastry that killed him, or did he coincidently have a heart attack or stroke while eating?

 

I took your advice, though, and did some more reading. Here's what I found in 15 minutes:

 

CLECO

2030 Donahue Ferry Road,

Pineville, LA 71361

 

Teach children to recognize "Danger-High Voltage" signs and to stay away from power lines, substations and pad-mounted transformers. (Pad-mounted transformers are encased in metal on slabs of concrete in areas where there is underground electrical wiring.) Guess they should have worded this geocahers and children, eh?

 

PEPCO

701 Ninth St., NW

Washington, D.C. 20068

 

What are some electricity dangers outdoors?

 

Although lightning is extremely dangerous, current electricity is the greatest electrical danger outdoors. Current electricity includes all outdoor wires, outlets and power lines. It's important to stay away from any power lines, substations or pad-mounted transformers (green metal boxes).

 

Cuivre River Electric Cooperative

Troy Lake Saint Louis Harvester Missouri

 

Remind children to not play on or near pad mount transformers.

 

LOWES WEBSITE

 

Teach your kids to recognize "Danger" signs and not to climb in trees if power lines pass through or near them. They should also know that pad-mounted transformers (those metal cabinets on concrete pads) are not safe places to play.

 

ElecSafe.info Website

http://www.elecsafe.info/powerlines.html

 

What is that mysterious big green metal box behind the hedge on the corner?

It may be electrical equipment installed there by the utility company to help deliver electricity to your home from the high voltage lines near your neighbourhood. They should be marked with yellow labels as an electrical hazard and children should be taught to leave them alone.

 

Don't kids also geocache? Don't they learn from what they see their parents do? "If daddy can mess around with those, they must be okay."

 

NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION WEBSITE

 

Stay away from overhead or buried power lines.

Stay away from power lines, substations and pad-mounted transformers.

 

Marquette Board of Light and Power

Marquette, MI

 

Teach your kids to recognize "Danger" signs and not to climb in trees if power lines pass through or near them. They should also know that pad-mounted transformers (those metal cabinets on concrete pads) are not safe places to play. (Seems Lowe's stole this verbatim)

 

But let's get back to addressing the PERMISSION ISSUE. What happened to you "explaining your position", as you called it, IIRR. Just what was that "position" again?

 

I was about to post much the same...for Michigan...I'm far too lazy to go into that much work GW!!

[+Kit Fox]

Great post and good job doing research regarding pad mounted transformers.

[+sbell111]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

Are you taking the position that no one has ever died while eating a croissant? Henry Heimlich would spin in his grave if you meant that (if he were dead).

 

BTW, Roberto Villegas died while eating a croissant. I'm sure that lots of people have died either while eating a croissant or from eating croissants.

What did he die OF? Was it the pastry that killed him, or did he coincidently have a heart attack or stroke while eating?

That guy? He died of lead poisoning. The fast acting kind. Other people would choke and die or even have strokes or heart attacks brought on by the buttery yumminess. Diabetes could be a problem, also. All of these are possible dangers. Edited January 28, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

But let's get back to addressing the PERMISSION ISSUE. What happened to you "explaining your position", as you called it, IIRR. Just what was that "position" again?

Do you really want me to give my canned speech on permission, yet again?

[+proimion]

Now, who STILL thinks they have permission, expessly, or implied?

 

Geowizerd, that was brilliant, listing the utility policies (no sarcasm here). I wasn't going to add my voice to this din, but now I will. Common sense says that all utility companies would have the same policies. I seriously doubt that any cache attached to a utility company device, including lamp posts, transformers, etc, is legal. It can't be any clearer.

 

It doesn't matter if it is safe or not. It doesn't matter if driving to the lamp post or transformer cache is more dangerous than dorking around with a transformer. It doesn't matter if it is called a "transformer" or a "watchamacallit" or a "happy fun box." Attaching something to a utility device is against policy. The transformers could be safe for babies and kitty cats to lick up and down and it is still against policy. It doesn't matter if a private property owner (such as Wal Mart) allows you to put a cache on such a device--they don't own the device. I think someday that the geocaching community will regret allowing so many of these illegal caches. It could put legit caching in jeopardy.

 

Well, I'm done with them. I'm not risking anything--safety or trespassing--to find this geo-junk. I'm swearing off these caches forever and I urge everyone else to do the same. I hope these types of caches die off.

[+geowizerd]

But let's get back to addressing the PERMISSION ISSUE. What happened to you "explaining your position", as you called it, IIRR. Just what was that "position" again?

Do you really want me to give my canned speech on permission, yet again?

 

Oh, I would just LOVE to hear it, juxtaposed against what I have previously posted concerning anything attached to, or in the vicinity (within the easement) of the utility's equipment. It does not matter if their equipment is on public property - which BTW, it is NOT, if it's in a commercial space. But even if it would be on public property, the equipment itself, and its' easement (usually 5' surrounding said equipment) is indeed the PRIVATE PROPERTY of the utility company. I'm sure that just about every utility company has the same sort of regulations, and I'd be willing to bet that just about every state has criminal statutes concerned with the tampering with these devices. And as a former (and current) public official dealing with public utilities (formerly a building inspector - and NEC nationally certified electrical inspector - with a very large and prosperous county in the suburbs of Wash DC, and currently a Project Officer dealing with damages to infrastructure with FEMA), I'm pretty familair with these kinds of laws nationwide, too.

Edited January 28, 2008 by geowizerd

[+Rockin Roddy]

Now, who STILL thinks they have permission, expessly, or implied?

 

Geowizerd, that was brilliant, listing the utility policies (no sarcasm here). I wasn't going to add my voice to this din, but now I will. Common sense says that all utility companies would have the same policies. I seriously doubt that any cache attached to a utility company device, including lamp posts, transformers, etc, is legal. It can't be any clearer.

 

It doesn't matter if it is safe or not. It doesn't matter if driving to the lamp post or transformer cache is more dangerous than dorking around with a transformer. It doesn't matter if it is called a "transformer" or a "watchamacallit" or a "happy fun box." Attaching something to a utility device is against policy. The transformers could be safe for babies and kitty cats to lick up and down and it is still against policy. It doesn't matter if a private property owner (such as Wal Mart) allows you to put a cache on such a device--they don't own the device. I think someday that the geocaching community will regret allowing so many of these illegal caches. It could put legit caching in jeopardy.

 

Well, I'm done with them. I'm not risking anything--safety or trespassing--to find this geo-junk. I'm swearing off these caches forever and I urge everyone else to do the same. I hope these types of caches die off.

 

Yes, I do to!!

[+geowizerd]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

Are you taking the position that no one has ever died while eating a croissant? Henry Heimlich would spin in his grave if you meant that (if he were dead).

 

BTW, Roberto Villegas died while eating a croissant. I'm sure that lots of people have died either while eating a croissant or from eating croissants.

What did he die OF? Was it the pastry that killed him, or did he coincidently have a heart attack or stroke while eating?

That guy? He died of lead poisoning. The fast acting kind. Other people would choke and die or even have strokes or heart attacks brought on by the buttery yumminess. Diabetes could be a problem, also. All of these are possible dangers.

 

I wasn't aware that lead was a common ingredient in croissants! Oh, so what you're saying is that it was something ELSE that killed him... Okay, so who (name names!) are these "other people"??? And link their deaths directly to croissants. Many here have given links that DIRECTLY link deaths to pad-mounted transformers (including yourself). This kind of Red Herring Arguement falls flatter than a tortilla in Kansas.

[+sbell111]

... But even if it would be on public property, the equipment itself, and its' easement (usually 5' surrounding said equipment) is indeed the PRIVATE PROPERTY of the utility company. ...

On several occasions, people have attempted to alter the reality of the issue to fit their argument. You are now saying that nothing can be placed within five feet of these items. How can that be, given that these items are often placed within a foot of public sidewalks? Are people supposed to walk in the road to get by the hazardous area? Edited January 28, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

People have died eating a croissant in a French bakery, but I still chew on the flaky goodness.

Name one.

Chocolate.

 

(That was a wierd question.)

Was that Mr. Chocolate, or Mrs. Chocolate?

It was a chocolate croissant. You asked me to name a croissant.

No, I asked you to name a person that died from eating a croissant, but I think you knew that.

Are you taking the position that no one has ever died while eating a croissant? Henry Heimlich would spin in his grave if you meant that (if he were dead).

 

BTW, Roberto Villegas died while eating a croissant. I'm sure that lots of people have died either while eating a croissant or from eating croissants.

What did he die OF? Was it the pastry that killed him, or did he coincidently have a heart attack or stroke while eating?

That guy? He died of lead poisoning. The fast acting kind. Other people would choke and die or even have strokes or heart attacks brought on by the buttery yumminess. Diabetes could be a problem, also. All of these are possible dangers.

I wasn't aware that lead was a common ingredient in croissants! Oh, so what you're saying is that it was something ELSE that killed him... Okay, so who (name names!) are these "other people"??? And link their deaths directly to croissants. Many here have given links that DIRECTLY link deaths to pad-mounted transformers (including yourself). This kind of Red Herring Arguement falls flatter than a tortilla in Kansas.

It's not a red herring, at all. People die all the time while eating or because of what they ate. In fact, the odds of this happening is much, much greater than the odds of being zapped while touching a whatchamacallit. Edited January 28, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

I just reread all of the policies cited earlier in the thread. I'm not sure that any of them cover a magnetic key safe and I am certain that none of them cover match safes sitting next to the whatchamacallit.

[+FireRef]

I just reread all of the policies cited earlier in the thread. I'm not sure that any of them cover a magnetic key safe and I am certain that none of them cover match safes sitting next to the whatchamacallit.

 

Actually, several of them restrict things nearby the transformers which would interfere with their purpose. Your second option is clearly not in violation of that.

[+egami]

... But even if it would be on public property, the equipment itself, and its' easement (usually 5' surrounding said equipment) is indeed the PRIVATE PROPERTY of the utility company. ...

On several occasions, people have attempted to alter the reality of the issue to fit their argument. You are now saying that nothing can be placed within five feet of these items. How can that be, given that these items are often placed within a foot of public sidewalks? Are people supposed to walk in the road to get by the hazardous area?

 

The 5' thing has to do with service accessibility.

[+Rockin Roddy]

... But even if it would be on public property, the equipment itself, and its' easement (usually 5' surrounding said equipment) is indeed the PRIVATE PROPERTY of the utility company. ...

On several occasions, people have attempted to alter the reality of the issue to fit their argument. You are now saying that nothing can be placed within five feet of these items. How can that be, given that these items are often placed within a foot of public sidewalks? Are people supposed to walk in the road to get by the hazardous area?

 

The 5' thing has to do with service accessibility.

I feel you're beating a dead horse here guys, it's fairly obvious (IMHO) that some will argue this just to argue.