Buried Cache... with permission?

[+Sono/Rad]

I found a cache this summer (after 3 trips to search for it) that was hidden in a water meter box and covered with pine straw. The box is a typical plastic water meter box, in the ground with the opening at ground level. Some cachers complained that it is a buried cache, but the final verdict was that since the cache was placed with the permission of the owner (a hotel) that it was legal since no pointy object was required to find the cache. Is this cache legal or not???? To me it is a buried cache. What say ye?????

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Placed in an existing meter box? Not buried.

[+WRASTRO]

I found a cache this summer (after 3 trips to search for it) that was hidden in a water meter box and covered with pine straw. The box is a typical plastic water meter box, in the ground with the opening at ground level. Some cachers complained that it is a buried cache, but the final verdict was that since the cache was placed with the permission of the owner (a hotel) that it was legal since no pointy object was required to find the cache. Is this cache legal or not???? To me it is a buried cache. What say ye?????

 

This is a somewhat common hide method. In fact we have one in our long driveway that serves as a travel bug hotel. It has been pretty popular and we have never had anyone complain about the hide style.

[+bettsbugs]

My guess is the answer lies in the original intent of the rule. I am just guessing that the original intent was to keep cachers from digging holes to bury caches in sensitive environments. Placing a cache in the ground in an urban/rural setting with the owner's permission does not violate this IMHO.

[+wimseyguy]

Permission of the land owner usually does trump the guidelines. But the problem with hiding a cache like this is that it can spawn copy cat hides where explicit permission is not given. Generally speaking it isn't a good way to hide a cache.

 

The mis-perception of hunting for 'buried treasure' is partly to blame for the ban/restrictions on hiding caches in our National Parks and NC State Parks.

[+palmetto]

As a reviewer I want to mention that the relevant guideline reads, "whether in order to hide or to find...."

 

If the box was already in place and the cacher took advantage of it for a hide, fine.

 

If the cacher dug the hole and placed the box, then no.

 

If the cacher wants to place such a hide, especially on their own property or on private property with permission, they need to contact Groundspeak. Use the contact@geocaching.com address. As a reviewer, if I understand that a hide was placed in this manner, starting with the cache placer digging a hole, I archive the cache and send the cacher to appeals, regardless of permission.

 

This is one of the hide styles that, as a cacher, I will always check the archived logs, and if I see nothing showing Groundspeak permission for the buried hide, I log a Needs Archived. And then I archive it.

Edited December 31, 2007 by palmetto

[+Ed & Julie]

If the cache was placed on private property with permission, then I can see it getting approved.

 

But...a similar cache placed in a city park, or along a public toad would be an issue.

 

I can see a noob cacher finding it and thinking it's okay and making their own in violation of the guidelines (heck, even expierenced cachers violate the guidlines now and again). Perhaps a disclaimer on the cache page stating the cache was placed with permission of the property owner and Groundspeak?

Edited December 31, 2007 by Ed & Julie

[+palmetto]

If the cache was placed on private property with permission, then I can see it getting approved.

 

Perhaps, but not by me. I'd send you to Groundspeak, contact@geocaching.com, for their specific permission to publish the cache.

 

It's really a very simple and clear section of the listing guidelines, and it has no modifying clause about "okay with permission on private property". Here it is again:

 

Off-limit (Physical) Caches

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

Bold emphasis on hide, mine as many cachers seem to miss that part.

[+joranda]

So is this cache ok, or should it be archived? GC3E4C

[+TrailGators]

So is this cache ok, or should it be archived? GC3E4C

It looks like you don't need a "pointy" object to dig that one out of the sand. So it's probably OK. Edited December 31, 2007 by TrailGators

[+joranda]

But isn't that buried?

[Keystone]

But isn't that buried?

Sure. In sand. For which no pointy digging appliance is needed.

[+TrailGators]

But isn't that buried?

The guideline says: "If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate." The point is that they don't want caches damaging the environment. Edited December 31, 2007 by TrailGators

[+joranda]

So as long as you don't use a shovel, trowel or pointy item, you can bury a cache? Good to know.

[+tozainamboku]

So as long as you don't use a shovel, trowel or pointy item, you can bury a cache? Good to know.

It would be hard to hide a cache under a pile of sticks or rocks if you wanted to use that broad a definition of buried. I think they should change this to the no digging guideline, but TPTB like the no buried because they can point to this when a land manager doesn't want to allow geocaching because they think it involves digging for buried treasure. In the cache the OP mentions, it is pretty clear that the water meter box was pre-exsiting. The problem is that one could go to Lowes and buy a water meter box (sans the water meter) and bury that in the ground. That would not be allowed. It may be hard for a finder or a reviewer to know whether something violates the guideline or not.

[+PhxChem]

Some cachers complained that it is a buried cache

 

Who are these Nosy Nellies anyway?

 

I would not consider that buried. If I need a shovel to remove it. That for me is buried.

 

 

Now, I'm off to bury my next cache under the atmosphere.......

[+PhxChem]

The problem is that one could go to Lowes and buy a water meter box (sans the water meter) and bury that in the ground. That would not be allowed.

 

Only if you tell someone (only half joking). I see that method quite a bit. And, if the OP is wondering (why else would they start a thread?) if you have permission, I don't think that should be against the rules.

[+woodman5898]

But isn't that buried?

 

Not in my opinion. I feel it would only be buried if it's completely surround with the same material that it's placed in (dirt, mulch, straw, etc).

[+robert]

I would not consider that buried. If I need a shovel to remove it. That for me is buried.

Not in my opinion. I feel it would only be buried if it's completely surround with the same material that it's placed in (dirt, mulch, straw, etc).

If you use a shovel to hide it, that's buried (according to the site guidelines, and regardless of what your definition is). Read the guidelines carefully before you make up your own rules.

[+CSpenceFLY]

The spirit of the rule is to keep morons from destroying an area while searching for a cache. Anyone not taking the impact a cache in going to have on an area maybe should not be hiding caches. I would say use some common sense but that does not seem to be thriving in our society these days.

[+joranda]

But isn't that buried?

 

Not in my opinion. I feel it would only be buried if it's completely surround with the same material that it's placed in (dirt, mulch, straw, etc).

 

I was talking about a cache that was on the beach buried in the sand. So would that be completely surrounded with the same material that it is placed in?

[+elmuyloco5]

 

If the box was already in place and the cacher took advantage of it for a hide, fine.

 

If the cacher dug the hole and placed the box, then no.

 

 

How does this logic stop the hider from placing a hole (with permission of course) on their's or someone else's land and then placing and listing a cache. What is the time frame you consider "already in place"? "Already in place" as in someone else placed it there for you, or "already in place" as in before you listed the cache? And if it's the first, then it's ok to have my friend go dig a hole (with permission of course) and place this box and then I can list my cache as the box was "already in place" and not done by me?

[+ReadyOrNot]

Some cachers complained that it is a buried cache

 

Who are these Nosy Nellies anyway?

 

 

Thanks, I needed a good chuckle today

[+Renegade Knight]

I found a cache this summer (after 3 trips to search for it) that was hidden in a water meter box and covered with pine straw. The box is a typical plastic water meter box, in the ground with the opening at ground level. Some cachers complained that it is a buried cache, but the final verdict was that since the cache was placed with the permission of the owner (a hotel) that it was legal since no pointy object was required to find the cache. Is this cache legal or not???? To me it is a buried cache. What say ye?????

 

Buried? Yes. Legit? Also Yes.

Everbody is right.

[+ReadyOrNot]

If the cache was placed on private property with permission, then I can see it getting approved.

 

But...a similar cache placed in a city park, or along a public toad would be an issue.

 

I can see a noob cacher finding it and thinking it's okay and making their own in violation of the guidelines (heck, even expierenced cachers violate the guidlines now and again). Perhaps a disclaimer on the cache page stating the cache was placed with permission of the property owner and Groundspeak?

 

This is something that has always bothered me. Each individual needs to take responsibility for reading the guidelines. If someone see's my cache that has proper permission and place a cache without permission, that is NOT my fault, it is their fault for not reading the guidelines and following them... I think the guidelines even say (paraphrase) - Just because cache A was deemed acceptable doesn't mean cache B that is identical is going to be acceptable.

[+ncfinn]

I still don't completely understand the definition of "buried:

 

1) May I dig a hole with my bare hands?

 

2) If I find a hole under a stump, can I make it bigger?

 

3) May I "dig" a hole inside a large, soft stump?

[+joranda]

I still don't completely understand the definition of "buried:

 

1) May I dig a hole with my bare hands?

 

2) If I find a hole under a stump, can I make it bigger?

 

3) May I "dig" a hole inside a large, soft stump?

 

As long as you don't use a shovel or any other item like that, it's all good. At least that's what has ben said.