GZ was a fall out zone (GC7CEA)

[+TeamBaitBucket]

All,

 

My soon to be better half and my self have been "lurking" for the lack of a better word. With that I mean we have been reading, hunting and having a fully wonderful time with out much of a word edge wise on the forums, but I must say that an experience today has pushed me over the edge. We were caching in our home town to day and decided to hit up 3 of the local caches in our area.

 

The day was going wonderfully, if any of you are in the Northeast, (PA) Today was extraordinary wonderful weather. We set out to find the second cache of the day and ran into a fall out zone. GZ was ripped up, it looked like a heard of 10 year olds went thought ripping up everything in sight trying to find the cache. Every rock was over turned, all the leaves for a 10 foot area were rutted up. Several of the "probable" hiding spots were destroyed, torn up, or knocked down. Cache Code is GC7CEA. We were unable to locate the case with all the destruction. We spent some time getting things some what back to normal, and planning another trip back up to locate the cache, if its still there and try to set things back to right. We had to stuff our backpack with trash from the area and still were not able to get it all. One more trip and things should be back to normal.

 

Reason for this message is 2 fold, this is a beautiful location, the over look at the end is the real treasure to be found. If the parties having anything to do with this happen to read this and would like, please contact me, no questions asked, no blame pointed, mistakes happen, what ever, but we would love to help set this site back to normal. And.... For the past few weeks that we have been caching, we have meet wonderful people, seen some wonderful sites and have been truly impressed with the Geocashing community in a hole. I don’t know what happened here, I don’t want to know, I just would like to set it back to the way it should be.

 

On a high note of the day, we meet a wonderful muggle out on the point over looking the river and spend a nice 30 min talking the day away about local history.

[+CSpenceFLY]

Someone went looking for one of mine in the woods with a machete. It is a multi and now you can almost find all of the stages without your GPS.

[+Rattlebars]

You will find those who were raised by wolves in any human community.

[+MaplessInSeattle]

You will find those who were raised by wolves in any human community.

Wolves have much more respect for the environment

[+Klatch]

Back when I found that cache four years ago it was already obviously a well used party spot. There was lots of old camping equipment discarded in the area and several campfire rings. To assume the damage was done by geocachers is a little presumptive and there have been no DNF's posted since the last find in May. You will log your DNF, right? I agree that seeing the rocks turned over that way is really annoying. Since it is a regular size cache I am surprised someone would have had a difficult time finding it. It does have a pretty specific hint. Anyway, nature will heal the appearance of the overturned rocks fairly quickly. It is probably not the last time you will see this kind of thing, it is just unfortunate that some people (geocachers, or not) have so little respect for the environment. I think if you seek out the more remote caches in the area you will be less likely to find unpleasant surprises like this. Welcome to the hobby and to the local geocaching community!

[+briansnat]

That kind of scorched earth hunting is unacceptable, and simply not good for our sport. The perp should get a good dressing down if his identity is determined.

 

In reality however, the damage is probably no different than what you see where a bear was looking for grubs or a herd of deer was foraging for acorns. In a few months it won't be noticeable.

 

The damage to the environment is negligible, the damage to the aesthetics of the area is temporary, but the damage to our sport can be permanent.

[+sbell111]

... GZ was ripped up, it looked like a heard of 10 year olds went thought ripping up everything in sight trying to find the cache. Every rock was over turned, all the leaves for a 10 foot area were rutted up. Several of the "probable" hiding spots were destroyed, torn up, or knocked down. Cache Code is GC7CEA. We were unable to locate the case with all the destruction. We spent some time getting things some what back to normal, and planning another trip back up to locate the cache, if its still there and try to set things back to right. We had to stuff our backpack with trash from the area and still were not able to get it all. One more trip and things should be back to normal. ...

This is a cache that hasn't been found (or not found) in five months. There previously were no problems noted regarding the area being messed up or there being trash around. Also, while geocachers have occasionally been known to turn over some rocks and muss up the leaves, leaving a large amount of trash about is not our typical MO. It would be unlikely that a single geocacher or group of geocachers who did not log their DNF would leave so much trash at GZ that you could not carry it all out.

 

Therefore, I doubt that the destruction was caused by geocachers.

Edited November 5, 2007 by sbell111

[+briansnat]

... GZ was ripped up, it looked like a heard of 10 year olds went thought ripping up everything in sight trying to find the cache. Every rock was over turned, all the leaves for a 10 foot area were rutted up. Several of the "probable" hiding spots were destroyed, torn up, or knocked down. Cache Code is GC7CEA. We were unable to locate the case with all the destruction. We spent some time getting things some what back to normal, and planning another trip back up to locate the cache, if its still there and try to set things back to right. We had to stuff our backpack with trash from the area and still were not able to get it all. One more trip and things should be back to normal. ...

This is a cache that hasn't been found (or not found) in five months. There previously were no problems noted regarding the area being messed up or there being trash around. Also, while geocachers have occasionally been known to turn over some rocks and muss up the leaves, leaving a large amount of trash about is not our typical MO. It would be unlikely that a single geocacher or group of geocachers who did not log their DNF would leave so much trash at GZ that you could not carry it all out.

 

Therefore, I doubt that the destruction was caused by geocachers.

 

I doubt that much trash was from geocachers. Definitely not our MO. I've seen a candy wrapper, a pencil or a water bottle near a cache that was likely dropped by a geocacher, but too much trash to carry out? Very doubtful it was related to geocachers.

 

The overturned rocks and messed up leaves probably are geocaching related, though I'd hardly consider "messed up" leaves to be an issue.

[+Isonzo Karst]

What briansnat and others have said. Some damage may have be seen from cachers. But trash? nope, you've encountered a party spot. And the damage may be because they found the cache, and then tore the area apart thinking there might be more.

 

I used to have a hide on a pretty river overlook, but once the ATVers made trail to it, it became a weekend hang-out for teens. The area was heavily trashed and my cache disappeared. The immediate area of the cache looked like hogs had come through (actually, hogs may have come through) but I think it was the teens that found the cache looking around after they'd found it.

[+Mopar]

This is a cache that hasn't been found (or not found) in five months. There previously were no problems noted regarding the area being messed up or there being trash around. Also, while geocachers have occasionally been known to turn over some rocks and muss up the leaves, leaving a large amount of trash about is not our typical MO. It would be unlikely that a single geocacher or group of geocachers who did not log their DNF would leave so much trash at GZ that you could not carry it all out.

 

Therefore, I doubt that the destruction was caused by geocachers.

I agree that the area probably was not trashed by cachers.

I disagree that there were no previous problems.

Heck, the second finders back in 2002 found the cache trashed. The cache owner replaced it and moved it away from "the camping area". A later log states "And there was a whole case, box and everything of beer left there. I can't believe how people litter". Another log says:"Carried out all the trash from the firepit on top." Then we have the first hand account from a previous finder right here in this thread: "Back when I found that cache four years ago it was already obviously a well used party spot. There was lots of old camping equipment discarded in the area and several campfire rings." I'll also note that Klatch didn't mention that part in the online cache logs. I suspect most people, especially on a cache like this one with such spectacular views, prefer to accentuate the positive in their logs which is why you don't see every one mentioning the trash.

[+sbell111]

This is a cache that hasn't been found (or not found) in five months. There previously were no problems noted regarding the area being messed up or there being trash around. Also, while geocachers have occasionally been known to turn over some rocks and muss up the leaves, leaving a large amount of trash about is not our typical MO. It would be unlikely that a single geocacher or group of geocachers who did not log their DNF would leave so much trash at GZ that you could not carry it all out.

 

Therefore, I doubt that the destruction was caused by geocachers.

I agree that the area probably was not trashed by cachers.

I disagree that there were no previous problems.

Heck, the second finders back in 2002 found the cache trashed. The cache owner replaced it and moved it away from "the camping area". A later log states "And there was a whole case, box and everything of beer left there. I can't believe how people litter". Another log says:"Carried out all the trash from the firepit on top." Then we have the first hand account from a previous finder right here in this thread: "Back when I found that cache four years ago it was already obviously a well used party spot. There was lots of old camping equipment discarded in the area and several campfire rings." I'll also note that Klatch didn't mention that part in the online cache logs. I suspect most people, especially on a cache like this one with such spectacular views, prefer to accentuate the positive in their logs which is why you don't see every one mentioning the trash.

You are, of course, correct. I should have posted that 'no problems were recently reported'. Of course, your research supports my premise, so it's all good. Edited November 5, 2007 by sbell111

[+9Key]

You will log your DNF, right?

Be sure to log a DNF so the cache owner will know what's going on out there. DNFs are important communication and nothing to be ashamed of.

[+Klatch]

You will log your DNF, right?

Be sure to log a DNF so the cache owner will know what's going on out there. DNFs are important communication and nothing to be ashamed of.

Unfortunately, this cache owner has become inactive, so the log probably won't do much good.

[+StarBrand]

I never understand why some people get upset over fallen leaves being scattered by geocachers......

 

If it was a geocacher or group - shame on them. However, sounds like the area might be a well used party area so could have been anybody.

[+DanOCan]

Unfortunately, this cache owner has become inactive, so the log probably won't do much good.

 

Well, even if the owner won't see it, a DNF log provides valuable information for the cachers who follow you so it is still a good idea.

[Luckless]

Could be some partyers stumbled upon the box of "treasure" and decided to take the area apart to see if there was any more.

[+Too Tall John]

Could be some partyers stumbled upon the box of "treasure" and decided to take the area apart to see if there was any more.

That's exactly what I was thinking!

[+TeamBaitBucket]

well, here my hope that it was a party group, it would be a strange spot for a party but maybe.

 

Maybe my first description of the area did not paint the correct picture, although the leaves were turn up, and it could have very easily been a group of turkeys digging up the area, it was more of the large rocks dug up, and moves, rolled down the hill that pointed me away from nature and to human destruction. I guess a bear would be able to kill the area as it was when we came upon it.

 

Maybe in a weekend or two we will try to locate the case again.

 

See you all on the trail.

 

Jason

[+The Leprechauns]

I found this cache in August 2004, and I remember it well.

 

First off, you are to be congratulated just for finding the correct parking and access route to the cache. Our group had great difficulty until a local helped us with directions on which road to take. I don't recall that the parking coords were part of the hint then, however. Without them, parking is half the challenge of this cache.

 

I also recall the cache being a difficult find, even for two geocachers who had 5,000 finds between them at the time, and even with a prior finder accompanying us for the hike (but not giving hints). It's quite possible that the cache is still there. The coordinates were a bit jumpy among the rocks and trees.

 

Finally, I recollect that this was quite a party spot due to the scenic view. It is entirely possible that someone had a few beers and thought it would be fun to roll rocks down the hill. While I've seen cache sites disturbed by geocachers, I can't recall a situation where they've scorched the earth by moving rocks a great distance. That takes too much effort! Move the rock, look behind/under it, then put it back.

 

Good luck in your cache hunt. If you strike out again, consider contacting a prior finder to go along with you. This is a classic cache and the locals would be happy to help ensure that it's preserved.

[+Klatch]

In order to put some of this speculation to rest, I revisited the cache in question this morning. First, the cache is there and is in great shape - well stocked with quality swag. Second, the area that was disturbed is very restricted to the immediate area of ground zero. In an area that is very rocky, it would be quite a coincidence if an animal or a muggle just happened to pick that small area. The cache itself is not in the "party area", so that makes it less likely to have been muggles. I have to conclude it was a geocacher(s) that caused the disturbance. I have seen worse, but I think it is inexcusable not to have at least replaced the rocks to their approximate original spot. As has been said, nature will heal the damage, but it never should have happened in the first place.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

You will log your DNF, right?

Be sure to log a DNF so the cache owner will know what's going on out there. DNFs are important communication and nothing to be ashamed of.

Unfortunately, this cache owner has become inactive, so the log probably won't do much good.

 

Actually, it would help. If I see a cache with a relatively low difficulty rating with multiple recent DNFs I am less likely going to try and find that cache myself. Multiple DNFs without a response from the owner would also tell the reviewer in the area that the cache is not being maintained. Reviewers have the option of disabling a cache that clearly is not being maintained.

 

On more than one occasion I have erred on the side of *not* dismantling potential hiding spots and it has resulted in DNFs. In one case, I probably had my fingers within 3" of the cache but if I had been a little more "thorough" in my search I would have found it on my first try.

 

As a cache hider I try to place my caches such that it doesn't require a lot of excavation to find the cache. Moving one or two logs or rocks to uncover a cache makes for a better hidden cache than one with a large pile of sticks at the base of a tree.

[+CSpenceFLY]

I went to find acache in North Georgia where I found a similar situation. This cache was on the side of a steep hill. The hillside was destroyed from all of the cachers climbing around looking for the cache. When we found the cache I showed the cords nearly 200 ft off. When I went to log I found several older logs that mention the cords being off and a note from the owner saying he knew he needed to fix it. Last time I checked nothing had been done. Unfortunately I did not mark the spot while I was there.

[+The Leprechauns]

In order to put some of this speculation to rest, I revisited the cache in question this morning. First, the cache is there and is in great shape - well stocked with quality swag. Second, the area that was disturbed is very restricted to the immediate area of ground zero. In an area that is very rocky, it would be quite a coincidence if an animal or a muggle just happened to pick that small area. The cache itself is not in the "party area", so that makes it less likely to have been muggles. I have to conclude it was a geocacher(s) that caused the disturbance. I have seen worse, but I think it is inexcusable not to have at least replaced the rocks to their approximate original spot. As has been said, nature will heal the damage, but it never should have happened in the first place.

Thanks, Klatch, for clearing up the speculation. That cache is one that I'd return to also, because of the spectacular view! (Anyone who is following this thread but hasn't checked out the photo gallery, should do so immediately instead of reading the forums.)

 

I guessed correctly that the well-hidden cache is still in place.

 

I was incorrect about the cause of the damage. I trust Klatch's assessment and I am sad to hear that geocachers disturbed the area in this manner. Not surprisingly, there's no DNF log to record that "search."