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How to load all the US Topo maps to your Garmin GPS


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You can easily exceed 2025 limit using "GmapTool v0.21". This program helps join different *.img files generated by Mapsource.

 

Collect all *.img files with 2025 limit, generated by Mapsource in one folder (must have different names). Insert to folder gmaptool program. In windows command shell execute sth like this:

 

gmaptool -jo gmapsupp.img *.img

 

Copy gmapsupp.img to "Garmin" folder in your SD card of your GPS.

 

Program can be downloaded from (the manual in english is included inside zip folder):

http://www.anpo.republika.pl/files/gmaptool021.zip

 

cheers! a. :(

 

gmaptool won't solve the problem. The problem isn't that you can't create a mapset with more than 2025 map segments, it's that the 60CSx won't be able to use more than the first 2025 segments in the mapset.

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So just to verify, the stripped DEM maps will still have the contour data so you still have a ballpark elevation, it just won't have the exact elevation at each point?

 

I'm might be bored enough to make all those files for topo 2008....

 

Correct.

 

Currently the program won't work with the Topo 2008 maps, I have to modifiy it to work. I'll post here when I have a new version.

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I am using the latest firmware for my 60Cx: 3.50. The only reference in the entire list of firmware updates is that the segment limit was increased to 2025 with firmware 2.60.

 

This is the same for the 60Cx, 60CSx, 76Cx, and 76CSx.

 

For all the firmware updates for the 60, 60C, 76, 76C, all the HC units, and HCx units, there is no statement at all about segment limits. So, they might be at 2025. Can't tell. Probably are, though.

 

Same for Mapsource. No statement at all about segment count limit in any revisions.

 

I did not check firmwares for any other Garmin units besides the mapping handhelds above.

 

So, the evidence that I see is that the 2025 segment count limit still applies, at least for 60/76 C(S)x units.

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There is definitely no 2025 map limit for 60 CSX/CX and the HCX series. The 2GB limit seems to be independant of formatting cause people with 4GB cards were able to stuff up the whole card, however only 2048MB of map data --> here is a link over to the german forum about this topic.

 

Oh maybe 2025 Map limit exists if you load maps directly to GPS I don't know, I use a card reader and for that there is definitely no map limit.

 

Vista HCx reference 2025 Map Limit Topic

http://www.naviboard.de/vb/showthread.php?...;highlight=2025

 

Reference for 2GB Limit on 60CSx and 2025 map limit somewhere in that topic:

http://www.naviboard.de/vb/showthread.php?...2025&page=3

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There is definitely no 2025 map limit for 60 CSX/CX and the HCX series. The 2GB limit seems to be independant of formatting cause people with 4GB cards were able to stuff up the whole card, however only 2048MB of map data --> here is a link over to the german forum about this topic.

 

Oh maybe 2025 Map limit exists if you load maps directly to GPS I don't know, I use a card reader and for that there is definitely no map limit.

 

Vista HCx reference 2025 Map Limit Topic

http://www.naviboard.de/vb/showthread.php?...;highlight=2025

 

Reference for 2GB Limit on 60CSx and 2025 map limit somewhere in that topic:

http://www.naviboard.de/vb/showthread.php?...2025&page=3

I don't know about that. I tried loading more than 2025 map segments on my Vista HCx via a card reader. It took the maps and displayed them, but it acted funny. It wouldn't route--claimed no roads at destination or something strange like that. Trying to find cities revealed strange names, incomplete indexes, etc. It occasionally failed to re-draw when scrolling. Once I dropped the map segments to below 2025 (I think I used 2017), it worked great.

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Hey guys, let's not get confused.

 

The 2025 segment count limit has nothing to do with the memory size limit.

 

When we talk about 2025 segment count limit, we mean that the gpsr can accept up to 2025 map segments, regardless of their individual or collective memory size.

 

For example, for TopoUSA, the map segments are numerous and small. If you try to load up all the western states and you keep track of the segment count in Mapsource, you will find that you hit the 2025 segment count limit at about 375 mb of memory size on the uSD card. Therefore, if you are using TopoUSA for your maps, any uSD card bigger than about a 512mb is a waste of silicon.

 

This is not true for the other mapping products that have fewer, and much larger, map segments. For the street maps, you can put the entire USA onto a 2gb card without hitting the 2025 map segment limit.

 

We need Garmin to modify the firmware to accept more than 2025 map segments, or produce a Topo product with fewer and larger segments, like their street maps do.

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Hey guys, let's not get confused.

 

The 2025 segment count limit has nothing to do with the memory size limit.

 

When we talk about 2025 segment count limit, we mean that the gpsr can accept up to 2025 map segments, regardless of their individual or collective memory size.

 

For example, for TopoUSA, the map segments are numerous and small. If you try to load up all the western states and you keep track of the segment count in Mapsource, you will find that you hit the 2025 segment count limit at about 375 mb of memory size on the uSD card. Therefore, if you are using TopoUSA for your maps, any uSD card bigger than about a 512mb is a waste of silicon.

 

This is not true for the other mapping products that have fewer, and much larger, map segments. For the street maps, you can put the entire USA onto a 2gb card without hitting the 2025 map segment limit.

 

We need Garmin to modify the firmware to accept more than 2025 map segments, or produce a Topo product with fewer and larger segments, like their street maps do.

I'm not confused. I was talking about Metroguide Europe, which has 2367 maps, and altogether takes slightly over 2 MB. I deselected a few map segments to get it below the 2 GB limit (but it was still over 2025 map segments). It successfully loaded to the microSD card and displayed on the GPS, but it had weird problems as I described above. Once I reduced the map segments down to 2017 (I tried 2022 as well), it worked fine.

 

It's probably a structural issue with the number of map segments, so I wouldn't count on a firmware update to help you. A "Topo NT" might help, though--compressed and with larger segments. Although there's probably a practical limit to the number of entities in a single map segment, too, so that might not be possible (Way more topo contours than roads for a given area, except maybe Kansas :laughing: ). The Colorado series seems to have much more horsepower for drawing maps so those practical limits are probably much higher for it.

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Thanks. That sounds good.

 

Garmin is a great company, and my 60Cx is the absolute cat's meow for how I use it. Don't want or need anything else, including the newer models. My workaround is to have a small collection of 512mb cards with different sections of TopoUSA on them.

 

However, Garmin could sure make things nicer if they simply fixed the 2025 map segment count limitation.

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In the past, I verified that you can use a card reader to upload more than 2025 segments to a MicroSd card. However, the 60 CSx cannot access more than 2025, which creates holes in the map coverage. Given that the Colorado is now the top dog handheld, it seems unlikely the 2025 limit will be addressed for the 60, 76, or etrex lines.

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and you're not working for garmin why?

 

lol nicely done.

 

Because I don't want to move to Kansas City. :D

 

HEY!!!!!! Kansas City is a great town.

 

Is that Kansas City,Kansas,or Kansas City ,Missouri? We Brits find it strange that the Americans were so obsessed with drawing straight lines on the map that they would cut a city in half

 

Silly brit, they didn't cut a city in half with a straight line, the State line is a river. Anything BUT a straight line. The river was there long before Kansas City. That river was a boundary long before Kansas City grew over it.

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I'm trying to combine segments for Roads & Recreation but Mapsource is crashing.

 

I thought I would start out small to test the waters. I created 2 segments. Each of these segments contains only 2 original segments. Everything processes fine and I'm done with step 3. I can load it up in mapsource without any problem. I run through step 4 and again, everything processes fine. It's at this point mapsource will crash.

 

I'm wondering if my problem is with mapedit and the original R&R overview file. As I mentioned before, I only created 2 small segments, each containing only 2 original segments. I don't have segments to cover all of the R&R coverage area.

 

Could this be my problem? Do I need to have segments for the entire area that the original R&R overview file covers? Any suggestions?

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Roads & Recreation are very, very old.

Maps are obsolete several years ago.

I do suggest you are not using these maps

.

 

Surprisingly, R&R has a lot of roads/trails that are not in TOPO or CN. These are "off the beaten path" type roads/trails. R&R is popular with a lot of dual-sport motorcyclists such as myself for this reason.

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I'm trying to combine segments for Roads & Recreation but Mapsource is crashing.

 

I thought I would start out small to test the waters. I created 2 segments. Each of these segments contains only 2 original segments. Everything processes fine and I'm done with step 3. I can load it up in mapsource without any problem. I run through step 4 and again, everything processes fine. It's at this point mapsource will crash.

 

I'm wondering if my problem is with mapedit and the original R&R overview file. As I mentioned before, I only created 2 small segments, each containing only 2 original segments. I don't have segments to cover all of the R&R coverage area.

 

Could this be my problem? Do I need to have segments for the entire area that the original R&R overview file covers? Any suggestions?

 

You can do a subset like you are doing. If everything is working ok after step 3, but mapsource crashes after doing step 4 then you made an error in that step. The key points are to remove the definition areas from the original overview map, then add the new definition areas. The most likely error is you didn't add the new definition areas.

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I'm trying to combine segments for Roads & Recreation but Mapsource is crashing.

 

I thought I would start out small to test the waters. I created 2 segments. Each of these segments contains only 2 original segments. Everything processes fine and I'm done with step 3. I can load it up in mapsource without any problem. I run through step 4 and again, everything processes fine. It's at this point mapsource will crash.

 

I'm wondering if my problem is with mapedit and the original R&R overview file. As I mentioned before, I only created 2 small segments, each containing only 2 original segments. I don't have segments to cover all of the R&R coverage area.

 

Could this be my problem? Do I need to have segments for the entire area that the original R&R overview file covers? Any suggestions?

 

You can do a subset like you are doing. If everything is working ok after step 3, but mapsource crashes after doing step 4 then you made an error in that step. The key points are to remove the definition areas from the original overview map, then add the new definition areas. The most likely error is you didn't add the new definition areas.

 

Thanks RW. You were indeed correct. I missed the step where you had to delete the definition areas. I selected them, just didn't delete them.

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It's inherent in the process. DEM data, routing data, and poi addresses will be lost. However since there is none of this data in the original US Topo maps you won't lose any data with those maps.

Is there any possible way of preserving the DEM data? I have a Colorado 300 which does use the DEM data for shading.

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I have not seen any solution for topo 2008 map, although you can find on the web someone wrote a tool to redefine the old topo 3.02 map tile to fit within 2025 segment.

 

For topo 2008, there are two issues to address to fit the entire topo on one chip:

 

1. need a tool to merge map tiles, from 6633 down to less than 2025.

 

2. make the whole map image less than 2GB (required by many handheld GPS). Perhaps use NT-map-like-compression, but then this may not work for some old GPS which does not support decompression.

 

Some device like vista hcx, appear to be able to load image with segments more than 2025, but actually not, as the first time map scanning process silently abort before reaching 100%, leaving part of the map unrecognized.

 

I using 2 microsd (damned cheap these days), or leave the other region .img copy on my laptop, so I can easily use the SD card reader to swap map set (instead of building the mapset each time).

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I have not seen any solution for topo 2008 map, although you can find on the web someone wrote a tool to redefine the old topo 3.02 map tile to fit within 2025 segment.

 

For topo 2008, there are two issues to address to fit the entire topo on one chip:

 

1. need a tool to merge map tiles, from 6633 down to less than 2025.

 

2. make the whole map image less than 2GB (required by many handheld GPS). Perhaps use NT-map-like-compression, but then this may not work for some old GPS which does not support decompression.

 

Some device like vista hcx, appear to be able to load image with segments more than 2025, but actually not, as the first time map scanning process silently abort before reaching 100%, leaving part of the map unrecognized.

 

I using 2 microsd (damned cheap these days), or leave the other region .img copy on my laptop, so I can easily use the SD card reader to swap map set (instead of building the mapset each time).

 

The tool has been discussed here for the 3.02 Topo as you disussed and yes I realize the size to fit the whole us would be too much but if the tiles were bigger I could load well over half the continental us w/o running into the segment limit

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Okay, I finally got around to trying this and I'm seeing some strange messages in the display. In the first part, I get warnings such as this:

00210107.mp(330268) : Warning W008: Element spans more than 10 degrees!

Then later, I see:

****RGN40****
Elements to process -->153535
100%
Processed		   -->105268
Split			   -->1283
Skipped because of wrong data -->4400

The "element spans more than 10 degrees" seems like a weird error. How is that possible when the segments themselves are tiny? And the "Skipped because of wrong data" is a bit concerning, too. I realize these are just warnings, but is it going to be missing data in the output? Any idea what might be causing these messages?

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Okay, I finally got around to trying this and I'm seeing some strange messages in the display. In the first part, I get warnings such as this:

00210107.mp(330268) : Warning W008: Element spans more than 10 degrees!

Then later, I see:

****RGN40****
Elements to process -->153535
100%
Processed		   -->105268
Split			   -->1283
Skipped because of wrong data -->4400

The "element spans more than 10 degrees" seems like a weird error. How is that possible when the segments themselves are tiny? And the "Skipped because of wrong data" is a bit concerning, too. I realize these are just warnings, but is it going to be missing data in the output? Any idea what might be causing these messages?

 

Not sure why you're getting the first warning since the combined segment covers a smaller area than 10 degrees, cgpsmapper can handle segments larger than that anyway so I'm not sure why it gives a warning about it.

 

The "skipped because of wrong data" is normal. I get it all the time. I don't know what it means but I have a program that will gather statistics for the maps and I ran it on the original map and on the combined map and the results are the same.

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Not sure why you're getting the first warning since the combined segment covers a smaller area than 10 degrees, cgpsmapper can handle segments larger than that anyway so I'm not sure why it gives a warning about it.

 

The "skipped because of wrong data" is normal. I get it all the time. I don't know what it means but I have a program that will gather statistics for the maps and I ran it on the original map and on the combined map and the results are the same.

I guess I'll see what I get. By the way, do you have any examples of config files where you've removed the background polygon (made a transparent map)? Since I have City Navigator, I'd really like to do as you described and make this map set be transparent and remove the streets and just leave basically the contours and water features.

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Not sure why you're getting the first warning since the combined segment covers a smaller area than 10 degrees, cgpsmapper can handle segments larger than that anyway so I'm not sure why it gives a warning about it.

 

The "skipped because of wrong data" is normal. I get it all the time. I don't know what it means but I have a program that will gather statistics for the maps and I ran it on the original map and on the combined map and the results are the same.

I guess I'll see what I get. By the way, do you have any examples of config files where you've removed the background polygon (made a transparent map)? Since I have City Navigator, I'd really like to do as you described and make this map set be transparent and remove the streets and just leave basically the contours and water features.

Well, it seemed to work okay. I made the maps transparent and removed all the roads so that it just uses the City Navigator roads. I also took out some other POIs that should be duplicates between the map sets. So now I can see the topo contours and water features on top of City Navigator. Cool! Unfortunately, due to problems in the Topo source, some trails are marked as residential roads (they could have at least made them unpaved roads!). I also saw some incomplete/broken contour lines near where the original segments split, but that problem is also in the source data and not related to the combining process.

 

In case anyone wants to recreate that, here's the contents of the config file I used:

[IMGIDChanges]
Preprocess=N
Transparent=Y
TreSize=5000
TreMargin=0.000000
RgnLimit=1024

[DeleteFeature]
Point 0x5901;Large airport
Point 0x5902;Medium airport
Point 0x5903;Small airport
Point 0x640e;Park
Point 0x6410;School
Polyline 0x0;Any road
Polyline 0x1;Major highway
Polyline 0x2;Principal highway
Polyline 0x3;Other highway road
Polyline 0x4;Arterial road
Polyline 0x5;Collector road
Polyline 0x6;Residential Street
Polyline 0x8;Highway ramp, low-speed
;Polyline 0xa;Unpaved road Keep for now
Polyline 0x27;Airport runway centerline
;Polygon

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Hmm.... Playing around with this a bit more I think it still needs some tweaking. Place name POIs are duplicated, so those need to go in the DeleteFeature section. Also, polygons like state park areas cover the City Navigator roads (boo!), but unfortunately that's inherent to the transparent map, so that can't be fixed. Too bad the City Navigator maps can't be made transparent... Anyway, I might just delete those polygons (but they're nice to have...). I'm planning to take it out on a caching trip this weekend so hopefully I'll find any more bugs so I can regenerate the Topo combined maps.

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Hmm.... Playing around with this a bit more I think it still needs some tweaking. Place name POIs are duplicated, so those need to go in the DeleteFeature section. Also, polygons like state park areas cover the City Navigator roads (boo!), but unfortunately that's inherent to the transparent map, so that can't be fixed. Too bad the City Navigator maps can't be made transparent... Anyway, I might just delete those polygons (but they're nice to have...). I'm planning to take it out on a caching trip this weekend so hopefully I'll find any more bugs so I can regenerate the Topo combined maps.

Okay, so I spent a lot of time trying to get this right, but I think I have a good solution now. I removed all the place names and roads in the USTopo.cfg. You can get my config file here. Then, with a custom TYP file, I tweaked the park polygons to be partially transparent so that I could see the City Navigator roads underneath. I got a lot of help from this post for the bitmap style. I got some more help from this post for the required registry entry to make the TYP file work with MapSource (basically just add a String value named TYP with the path to the file). BIG FAT WARNING: Make sure your TYP file base name is 8 characters or less. I tried it with 9 characters, and while it displayed correctly in MapSource, it caused a program error when I tried to transfer the maps to my GPS.

 

Some screenshots: Here's a section where the park boundary in City Navigator ends but continues in Topo (the dots are sort of hard to see):

mixed.jpg

I had to experiment a lot with the color to get it to match the park color in City Navigator, because I wanted the dots to disappear when both City Navigator and Topo had the same park. I ended up loading the maps to my unit (Vista HCx), taking a screenshot of a park from CNNT with xImage, then sampling the color of the park in Paint and copying that color into the TYP file. So, now I can see the City Navigator roads underneath the Topo parks, but they end up a bit "freckled" like this:

yosemite.jpg

This is acceptable to me, but maybe not for everyone (you can tweak your own if you want). One more thing that needed tweaking was the polygons for urban boundaries (city designations). By default, they were covering city areas, which obscured all the roads for the city. Not very helpful. I didn't want to ditch them completely (also didn't want to recompile the maps...) so I turned them into a very low density dot pattern like this:

urban.jpg

 

So, feel free to download my TYP file and use it as-is or you can use this fantastic online editor to tweak it to your liking. Enjoy!

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Ok, I have tried a few things with topo 2008 but the program crashes in the first step. Is there a conflict with windows vista?

No, I ran it on Vista with no problems. But the program was written for Topo 3.02, not Topo 2008. I haven't heard reports of success using it with Topo 2008, but at the least you'd have to create the gdb files to select the segments to combine.

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Hi All,

BTW, it's eligible for the $30 mail-in-rebate too if someone has a valid serial number from the older 1999 US topo program. The reason I was going to sell it is because I can't find my serial number from my old topo program (in fact I can't find the original discs at all) and so I can't cash in on the $30 rebate.

 

I can't find the info for the rebate. I have the older Topo w/sn's so I'd love to update it for a resonable price. Can you link my to the rebate offer?

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Hi All,

BTW, it's eligible for the $30 mail-in-rebate too if someone has a valid serial number from the older 1999 US topo program. The reason I was going to sell it is because I can't find my serial number from my old topo program (in fact I can't find the original discs at all) and so I can't cash in on the $30 rebate.

 

I can't find the info for the rebate. I have the older Topo w/sn's so I'd love to update it for a resonable price. Can you link my to the rebate offer?

That was over a year ago. The current promotions can be found here: http://www8.garmin.com/whatsNew/currentpromotions/

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Ok, I have tried a few things with topo 2008 but the program crashes in the first step. Is there a conflict with windows vista?

No, I ran it on Vista with no problems. But the program was written for Topo 3.02, not Topo 2008. I haven't heard reports of success using it with Topo 2008, but at the least you'd have to create the gdb files to select the segments to combine.

 

I had created a few sample gdb files so I could convert topo '08. I had to also fine tune the command line since '08 stores there map seg in a diff folder. The program starts to run, creates the folders, even creates the first mp file (though it is empty) in the temp folder and yhen it crashes saying there is a problem with it. I tried removing the first gdb file so I can try another and then it just flashes real quick and then dissapears without creating any mp file.

 

If anybody out there has any ideas it would be appreciated.

Edited by rd.nck
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rwsmith123, fantastic job; I can't believe all the work you've done

 

also thanks, SiliconFiend - combining these mapsets via transparency is something I've wanted for years

 

this is likely the best thread in the world on pushing garmin gps limits and removing boundaries

 

it's been awhile since anyone posted a topo 2008 combining update; has there been any progress? if not, i'll just stick with resegmenting the older topo maps

 

also, i assume the posts re: removed 2025 segment limit are just bogus disinformation? i never got a clear confirmation, and i've been burned several times; my 76csx is at v3.70 (currently the latest), but on a prior version when i exceeded the limit i had strange missing information problems similar to a post in this thread - after spending hours building and transferring the mapset to microSD

 

mark

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Does anyone know if this stuff still works and where to find the tools. Half the links above are dead and of the ones that work they refer to other links that are dead once you get there.

 

So far Garmin hasn't fixed the segment numbers issue. I just updated to version 4.00 for my 60CSx and it still won't accept anything over 2025 segments even though they fixed the 2GB limit.

 

AK

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Greetings:

The combinemaps routine seems like it might work well for my eTrex HCx. I am using Garmin MapSource Topo version 6.15.11 and I want to combine all of the US basemaps in MapSource Topo. However, when I run the combinemaps program I get the following error message:

 

Clearing read only bit on c:\Garmin|USCombined\Temp\05617461.img

cgpsmapper 05617461.img

Error: cgpsmapper rc=-1

 

and the routine fails on the first image translation.

 

I’ve looked through the internet but I cannot seem to find a reference to this specific problem. Does anyone have a solution idea?

 

Thanks,

 

SW Idaho

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