Failure to protect the game piece

[Clan Riffster]

My thinking is that this is rude.

I agree. If I can't retrieve & return a cache due to muggles, I'll ponder a while on how to accomplish this. As long as the pondering is fun, I'll stick around. Once it becomes tedious, I'll pass on that cache, (for now), and go hunt something else. I can't imagine intentionally risking the integrity of a cache, (even a lowly film canister), just for a smiley.

[+e-trexing]

Ok, This coming from a noob, but I agree somewhat with both points of view. If the cache is in such a high muggle traffic volume area, the owner must accept the risk of it getting muggled. I'll try the stealth approach, as it can be fun. Like the one in the car vacuum area of a store, I had to return with quarters to find it w/o looking out of place, but my truck is cleaner as a result. On others, I just walk up to it, retrieve it, go back to truck to open and sign, then replace it. If someone watches, it's likely they wont watch the entire event. If they do, and take the film canister and the log, no big loss.

 

I'll admit to getting tired already of the lamp post in parking lot thing, so filter those out as possible. Every so often though, you find one that is well thought out and placed, and those are worth the effort.

[+Kit Fox]

Call me self serving, or opinionated, but if a cache like we described in the beginning of this thread disappears, because of it's poor placement, and a new cacher doesn't get a chance to find this cache, there is a greater chance that they won't try to emulate such a poorly placed cache.

 

We could be improving the game.

 

Yup.. culling the herd so to speak.. or maybe just a pinch of Darwinism. I like the concept.

I do too. From now on, if I don't like a cache (or cache owner), I'm going to sabotage it. That's a GREAT idea.

 

EDIT: to, two, too

 

Just for the record, I was trying extra hard to be "snarky" today, just to ruffle sbell111's feathers

 

I've never purposely removed someone else's cache because I didn't like it, or disliked the owner. I'm usually good at being honest in my online logs. As for protecting the game piece, i've found (through many finds) that simple going about my business like I belonged there was far less "attention attracting."

[mikej2]

I'm still kind of new at this stuff so I'll answer based on my experiences:

 

1. The blatant disregard presented by the first post is rude and wrong, people should at least try to keep the "game" going.

 

2. One cache I've found was somewhat protected, but close to a path where it would be impossible to be totally stealthy, but there is a slight rise to hide behind while one is logging in and looking at the contents of the cache (sort of hide behind). While there I saw several people walk or bicycle past, I could clearly see their heads, and if they had looked over to see me peeking back I'm certain a few of them would have been spooked. I did my thing and put everything back to how it was, looked both ways, then popped back onto the trail as another cyclist came into view. If he wasn't a cacher I assume he thought I'd just gone over the rise to take a leak. Oh well.

 

3. Another cache I've been to is close to another trail, fairly heavily travelled, impossible to be stealthy, so I just quietly went about my business and went off-trail when the coast was somewhat clear, turned my back to the trail as I logged in and closed the container, then put it back into it's spot once the coast was somewhat clear. I'm sure another cacher came by as one guy passed by about three times trying to look non-chalant but the bulge in his pocket gave away his GPSr or a cell phone or camera.

 

4. If I've got a camera with me I'll try to look like I'm taking a picture of something if someone wanders past since photographers take photos of all sorts of stuff. "I was just taking a picture of a small beetle on a log and then I was trying to find my car keys that fell out of my pocket when I had to replace the camera battery", would be a likely line to use if someone looked like they thought I was acting suspicious.

 

5. If the cache location is in plain sight from anyone wandering past or driving past I'll just do my best to act casual and not be obvious when opening a container, just do my thing and move along. But ducking into the brush looks suspicious so having a camera or playing the leaker seems to work to disuade any concerns people or muggles might have as to what I'm up to. Just part of the game I guess.

 

Not sure if this reply is what the asker was looking for or not. I'll be dropping off two TB's tomorrow someplace, will have to see how it goes, hopefully muggle and suspicion free.

[+Cornerstone4]

Several people have posted remarks that kind of sound like 'I hate these kinds of caches anyway, so why do I care if it goes missing'. My thinking is that if you don't like to stealthily find a micro in a field of muggles, then you should walk away and ignore the cache rather than ruin the cache for those people that believe that the stealth-factor is a big part of the fun of this game.

 

For a while, I had the attitude you are describing about LPC caches. Then, I realized I wasn't being fair to the folks that enjoy these hides. Since I suffer from OCD, I just can't seem to use the ignore feature though!

 

So, now I do my best to not be detected. However, there is a local family that seems to really enjoy placing jumbo skirt hides. They place the caches under the skirts at the bottom of traffic signal poles on busy intersections. I have given up being stealthy on these. I've tried late at night, but I feel more suspicious trying to grab the cache in between cars at night. The last one I did, the light changed, and there were 6 or 7 cars just sitting there watching me while they waited for the light to change. The cache is still there...I guess nobody was curious enough to get out of their cars in the 100+ heat to see what I was doing!

[+J-Way]

I do too. From now on, if I don't like a cache (or cache owner), I'm going to sabotage it. That's a GREAT idea.

Now that's just wrong (and yes, I did recognize the sarcasm... some of it oozed onto my keyboard). Back to my post, I never said I intentionally revealed the location of any cache. I actually think I'm more stealthy, even on lowly LPCs, than quite a few other geocachers out there.

 

But the level of muggle activity that tells me to back off and come back another day is most definitely influenced by the level of the hide. I might go for a LPC when I would back off of a puzzle or multi, but whenever I go for a find it's because I think I can retrieve and replace the cache without being discovered. I have no fear of logging a DNF (or a Note if I don't even get out of the vehicle to look). If I can come back another day, great! If not, no big deal.

[+Trucker Lee]

If I can be stealthy, I'll retrieve a cache right under someone's nose. If I cannot avoid detection and risk to the cache, I will pass.

 

this is the way it should be done. if cachers keep giving away the hides, they won't be one there for the next cacher.

[+Miragee]

Yesterday while I was in the "big city," I looked for and found -- and didn't find -- a few caches in very muggle-ful locations. I took care to make the grab surreptitiously, and then move away from the hiding place to get out and sign the log. I would hate to be the last person to sign the log on a cache that goes missing.

 

However, like J-way, I'll sometimes go ahead and lift that lamp post skirt to retrieve the film canister from its hiding place. So far, I don't think I've ever been the last finder of the LPCs I've found.

[Mr.Yuck]

Call me self serving, or opinionated, but if a cache like we described in the beginning of this thread disappears, because of it's poor placement, and a new cacher doesn't get a chance to find this cache, there is a greater chance that they won't try to emulate such a poorly placed cache.

 

We could be improving the game.

 

Yup.. culling the herd so to speak.. or maybe just a pinch of Darwinism. I like the concept.

I do too. From now on, if I don't like a cache (or cache owner), I'm going to sabotage it. That's a GREAT idea.

 

EDIT: to, two, too

 

Just for the record, I was trying extra hard to be "snarky" today, just to ruffle sbell111's feathers

 

I've never purposely removed someone else's cache because I didn't like it, or disliked the owner. I'm usually good at being honest in my online logs. As for protecting the game piece, i've found (through many finds) that simple going about my business like I belonged there was far less "attention attracting."

 

Eh, no one (should) think you're serious. Yours and EdScott's reply's made for a very potent one-two punch of comedy.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Ok, This coming from a noob, but I agree somewhat with both points of view. If the cache is in such a high muggle traffic volume area, the owner must accept the risk of it getting muggled. I'll try the stealth approach, as it can be fun. Like the one in the car vacuum area of a store, I had to return with quarters to find it w/o looking out of place, but my truck is cleaner as a result. On others, I just walk up to it, retrieve it, go back to truck to open and sign, then replace it. If someone watches, it's likely they wont watch the entire event. If they do, and take the film canister and the log, no big loss.

 

I think e-trexing put it best. Part, or even most, of the challenge of geocaching in a high-muggle area (and I have done quite a bit of it) is to retrieve the cache with the muggles there! Mostly we're successful, but not always. Waited twenty minutes for the muggles to get off the bench, plopped ourselves down, and signed the log. As we walked away more muggles invaded the area. What's the challenge in doing an Off the Rocker cache if you wait until Cracker Barrel is closed, for goodness sakes! We did LTF the one hidden in the guardrail by the Little League field. Oh, well. But that cache owner NEVER maintains his caches anyway. I've got a few in high muggle areas, and had to replace two of them. That's part of the responsibility and risk of putting out such a cache. They are more likely to get muggled. The cache owner should realize this, and accept the responsibility. I like my caches enough to accept the responsibility of replacing them when they are muggled. That's part of the game.

Funniest muggle experience was... Picture a small structure (no walls) with two benches, overlooking the lake. Hundreds of muggles wandering about. Husband and wife peering out of the lake to the left. Daughter sleeping on the bench to the right. Well, the cache is up in the rafters over the sleeping teenager. I can see it! So, in my best stealthy manner, I climbed up the railing over the sleeping girl, and snagged the cache. The other cachers that we met at the site creatd a diversion. "Goodness gracious!!! Look at that" pointing over to the left. I returnd the cache to its hiding place. Nobody saw a thing! The cache was not muggled (it was found a few days later.)

Now, OP might suggest that I was 'failing to protect the game piece.' I suggest that I met the challenge of finding the cache in an ever-present muggle situation. And succeeded!! To me, that is the challenge of putting a cache in such a place.

We had to do some repair work on one of our caches, recently. It took my cache partner two tries to return it to its hiding place, because of the muggles. Also part of the challenge in muggle areas.

[+Sileny Jizda]

The cache we placed that most likely started this thread, as I've said before is anything but a micro. When we approached the library staff to place it they were first a little stand offish because they've never heard of geocaching. After some discussion and showing them what it was all about they were eager to let us place a cache on site. We knew full well the muggle factor would be high. We also knew that the muggle factor would only b high during certain hours as well. With that comes cache maintenance. Just this week we had to bring the old man home and patch him up. All of the library staff knew of it and it's location. Most of them find him amusing and even check to see if he's okay as they walk in. A factor that does away with the majority of the worry of LEO and any confrontation from the staff is the fact they know and approved of it. Most of the micro parking lot caches we've found I've questioned how they got permission. However, that's the placer's responsibility to obtain that.

 

With the steps we took to place ours we appreciate those that don't try and wait more than those that would just use the attitude that we placed it with disregard to location. It's that same mindset we use when we look for a cache. Placing ourselves in the mindset of the placer gives us more consideration and appreciation for the cache and it's owner than some it seems though.

 

The way we see it caching is as hard or easy as you make it. It's also as fun as you make it.

[+sbell111]

... Funniest muggle experience was... Picture a small structure (no walls) with two benches, overlooking the lake. Hundreds of muggles wandering about. Husband and wife peering out of the lake to the left. Daughter sleeping on the bench to the right. Well, the cache is up in the rafters over the sleeping teenager. I can see it! So, in my best stealthy manner, I climbed up the railing over the sleeping girl, and snagged the cache. The other cachers that we met at the site creatd a diversion. "Goodness gracious!!! Look at that" pointing over to the left. I returnd the cache to its hiding place. Nobody saw a thing! The cache was not muggled (it was found a few days later.)

Now, OP might suggest that I was 'failing to protect the game piece.' I suggest that I met the challenge of finding the cache in an ever-present muggle situation. And succeeded!! To me, that is the challenge of putting a cache in such a place.

We had to do some repair work on one of our caches, recently. It took my cache partner two tries to return it to its hiding place, because of the muggles. Also part of the challenge in muggle areas.

Nope. I think you were protecting the game piece by having your new friends create a diversion so it could be removed and replaced unnoticed.

[+sbell111]

The cache we placed that most likely started this thread, ...

I don't know you and have never looked for your cache, so nope. This thread is not about your cache. In fact, it's not about any specific cache. It is about the behavior of finders. Edited July 27, 2007 by sbell111

[+edscott]

Call me self serving, or opinionated, but if a cache like we described in the beginning of this thread disappears, because of it's poor placement, and a new cacher doesn't get a chance to find this cache, there is a greater chance that they won't try to emulate such a poorly placed cache.

 

We could be improving the game.

 

Yup.. culling the herd so to speak.. or maybe just a pinch of Darwinism. I like the concept.

I do too. From now on, if I don't like a cache (or cache owner), I'm going to sabotage it. That's a GREAT idea.

 

EDIT: to, two, too

 

Let's not get nasty.. just the cache.. not the owner.

[+wesleykey]

 

What do you think of this practice?

 

If you hide a cache in a high muggle zone you should expect that finders might give it away. I have even asked muggles to assist with the search on occasion when they got curious.