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Seeking Permission to place a cache

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As I posted in a different thread-I have asked the ND DOT for permission to place a cache at a rest stop (April 17th). As of today-they still have not decided. I have NOT mentioned that someone else has placed one at a different rest stop in the state-but I can understand why it happens.

 

I remember reading the phrase "place and seek forgiven, rather than ask"". Gee-its a shame when a person would like to do the right thing and can't even get a yes or no answer.

 

For me its more frustating that a dumb micro in the woods! ;)

 

Do any other cachers have some suggestions? Thanks!

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An update on ND DOT:

1. They sent me their rough draft of proposed policy for comments!

2. Looks like we will be able to place 1 cache in rest area (2 exceptions) after filling a permit and receiving approval. :rolleyes:

3. They will be removing the illegal placed one-guess they checked the ND cache page.

 

This will be nice as ND has a way to go to reach 500 hides in the state!!!

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An update on ND DOT:

1. They sent me their rough draft of proposed policy for comments!

2. Looks like we will be able to place 1 cache in rest area (2 exceptions) after filling a permit and receiving approval. :D

3. They will be removing the illegal placed one-guess they checked the ND cache page.

 

This will be nice as ND has a way to go to reach 500 hides in the state!!!

 

Can you post some details of the proposed "rules"??

 

 

Seems really odd to have to get a permit for a rest stop cache.

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I know that Minnesota has guidelines for placing geocaches in rest areas, and as of 2005, Wisconsin did not want rest area geocaches.

 

Personally, I highly approve of geocaches at rest areas. When I travel, I look for rest areas with geocaches and plan my stops around them. The best ones I've seen are creatively hidden, usually off along the edges of the properties, away from high trafic areas where they won't cause any maintenance problems. Some of the largest rest areas have ample room for two geocaches, one at each end.

 

I used to just make a quick pit stop at rest areas then jump back in the car and hit the road again. Hunting down the cache forces me to really stretch out and gets the blood pumping again. These days, I get back to road significantly more refreshed and alert after hunting a geocache.

 

I'd seriously advise the DOT to consider encouraging the placement of geocaches in their rest areas.

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An update on ND DOT:

1. They sent me their rough draft of proposed policy for comments!

2. Looks like we will be able to place 1 cache in rest area (2 exceptions) after filling a permit and receiving approval. :)

3. They will be removing the illegal placed one-guess they checked the ND cache page.

 

This will be nice as ND has a way to go to reach 500 hides in the state!!!

1. Why don't you post the rough draft for all to see?

 

2. What about member only caches? Think of what happens when you limit caches to 1 per area and then have a MOC there.

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As I posted in a different thread-I have asked the ND DOT for permission to place a cache at a rest stop (April 17th). As of today-they still have not decided. I have NOT mentioned that someone else has placed one at a different rest stop in the state-but I can understand why it happens.

 

I remember reading the phrase "place and seek forgiven, rather than ask"". Gee-its a shame when a person would like to do the right thing and can't even get a yes or no answer.

 

For me its more frustating that a dumb micro in the woods! :)

 

Do any other cachers have some suggestions? Thanks!

I really applaud your efforts. Really cool.

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An update on ND DOT:

1. They sent me their rough draft of proposed policy for comments!

2. Looks like we will be able to place 1 cache in rest area (2 exceptions) after filling a permit and receiving approval. :)

3. They will be removing the illegal placed one-guess they checked the ND cache page.

 

This will be nice as ND has a way to go to reach 500 hides in the state!!!

 

I fail to see how the other cache was illegal. The purpose of a rest area is to get out, freshen up and strech your legs. Why would you even ask for permission for something that encourages people to do exactly that.

 

If ND needs a permit for a cache in a rest area...that's too funny, they have what 10 rest areas or so in the entire state? The time they spend isn't worth the effort for any conceivable result that a permit would get htem over asking a geocacher "hey where are the caches?"

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...

Do any other cachers have some suggestions? Thanks!

 

My suggestion. Get them to drop the permit. It's a waste of energy. Instead have the ND cache group (make one if there isn't) talk to someone every few months and give them a run down of the caches in rest areas. Or notify them when there is a new one etc.) Much more effective for their real purpose in trying the permit system.

 

Unless ND is awash in cash, they don't have the time or staff to mess with permits, and the right person won't know what's going on anyway. There are two people who need to know the caches location. The maintance foreman who covers the rest area and the District engineer or District manager who's district the rest area is in. If ND is organized differently then the go to person would be the person who's maintaining the area and the person in charge of rest areas. In other words the people in the transportation department who would be called if a car caught on fire in the rest area.

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As long as the permit doesn't cost anything, i like the idea of a permit.

 

That way the managing agency knows who owns what caches. If they have a problem they can be contacted quickly and directly.

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Do any other cachers have some suggestions? Thanks!

 

Move back to Iowa?

 

Yeah, I know, it'll happen eventually. Whether you believe it now or not.

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Any Suggestions?

Move back to Iowa? :smile:

 

I would love to-but I married a Minnesotan 33+ years ago, so the best I can do is cache in the great state of Iowa when I visit my relatives. I know the joke about IOWA (Idiots out wandering around) but its a great state for bicycling (did RAGBRAI in '04) and I just love caching since the itch weed is 5 feet tall!!!

 

Back to ND-I have sent my coordinates to NDDOT-including a photo of the container. I have filed a cache and ask the reviewer Electric Mouse not to activate until I get permission. We certainly need caches-I have more finds than the state has hides-and I haven't even looked for one this month. Darn gas prices!!!

 

I post when I get my answer---

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Any Suggestions?

Move back to Iowa? :signalviolin:

 

I would love to-but I married a Minnesotan 33+ years ago, so the best I can do is cache in the great state of Iowa when I visit my relatives. I know the joke about IOWA (Idiots out wandering around) but its a great state for bicycling (did RAGBRAI in '04) and I just love caching since the itch weed is 5 feet tall!!!

 

Back to ND-I have sent my coordinates to NDDOT-including a photo of the container. I have filed a cache and ask the reviewer Electric Mouse not to activate until I get permission. We certainly need caches-I have more finds than the state has hides-and I haven't even looked for one this month. Darn gas prices!!!

 

I post when I get my answer---

 

NO was the response to my request-received just today. I asked for a reason-offically none given, but the contact lady said probably "security". Gee-that got me to thinking-"Do you think terrorist type people are into seeking pemission? :mmraspberry: I can ask again next year...

I guess I will have to think of something else to get more caches in N.Dak land. BUMMER oh well such if life... :drama:

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I am confused. I thought they sent you a rough draft of a proposed policy. So they created a policy and then said No?

 

Maybe i misread somewhere.

 

Although this may not have helped in your situation, i would much rather talk to a person than send a letter or email. Its much easier to convey the situation i think. Of course in your situation, it would be difficult to do that.

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I am confused. I thought they sent you a rough draft of a proposed policy. So they created a policy and then said No?

 

Maybe i misread somewhere.

 

Although this may not have helped in your situation, i would much rather talk to a person than send a letter or email. Its much easier to convey the situation i think. Of course in your situation, it would be difficult to do that.

 

Your are correct--the powers of North Dakota DOT changed their mind. I tried to play by their rules and result was I got kicked out of the game. :laughing:

The contact person sent me 1. policy with the rules 2. proposed permit. I furnished them (fax) with a photo of the container and real coordinates for I-94 Oriska rest stop e/w with reviewer's notes from geocaching.com. No actual container was placed (since I did not have permission). :

 

I have talked to the contact person twice once before I sent them the coordinates in May and this week (a couple weeks after supplying all requirements) and she now has sent me a written NO. The decision to change course was probably the 8 district managers of DOT (that is a guess).

Sorry to say there is a reason why North Dakota is DEAD last in cache placement-lack of cooperation. I wish it was the only time I have been refused-but that is another story. :rolleyes:

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Too bad to hear. ND certainly does need caches! Hey, I was browsing the web today and saw the site http://www.geocachingpolicy.org that keeps track of policies set forth by various land managers. Perhaps you can tell the folks at ND DOT about it. Maybe it will make the feel better to know other land managers do allow caches? It's a long shot, but here's hoping!

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Too bad to hear. ND certainly does need caches! Hey, I was browsing the web today and saw the site http://www.geocachingpolicy.org that keeps track of policies set forth by various land managers. Perhaps you can tell the folks at ND DOT about it. Maybe it will make the feel better to know other land managers do allow caches? It's a long shot, but here's hoping!

Thanks I will shoot them a note!

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That is just unreal that they won't let you put a cache in. We have a few of them along I29 and I90 down here in Sioux Falls area. I didn't ask for permission at all. They are the hottest caches we have as far as getting cache hits. Its great to see people getting out and stretching along the way of these long trips.

I am originally from ND and we will be on our way up to Minot in a few weeks. I have thought of putting a cache or two in the Minot area as that is where I lived. I have a son in law and daughter who could maintain it. Even in Minot it doesn't seem like there are a huge amount of caches and the new ones come along few and far apart. I would encourage all bigger cities in ND to just start putting caches around in the areas surrounding your cities......Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks, Fargo. We take a trip to Fargo probably 4 times a year to meet the kids for a weekend. We would gladly find these caches.

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Too bad to hear. ND certainly does need caches! Hey, I was browsing the web today and saw the site http://www.geocachingpolicy.org that keeps track of policies set forth by various land managers. Perhaps you can tell the folks at ND DOT about it. Maybe it will make the feel better to know other land managers do allow caches? It's a long shot, but here's hoping!

 

"No" isn't a policy. Policy would probably be set by the ND Transportation Board or it's equivilent. "No" is merely simple and expedient. After all ND like most states doesn't have the time or money to muck with a permitting process and track caches in their rest areas. A good working relationship with your local mantenance forman would get your more traction. They have the ear of regional managers/engineer types.

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I'd flip them the bird (privately and out of sight, of course) and place it anyway. But that's me.

 

--tim

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Unfortunately, the "ask for forgiveness" approach is going to bite us in the end. Managers who don't understand geocaching in the first place who think that people are illegally placing caches just get more put off.

 

Things are fine now, but getting these managers to understand the positives of Geocaching is a better approach than putting them out somewhere just hoping it's "ok"... and I think that's technically against the geocaching rules anyway, but it's always been a "grey area".

Edited by IDLookout

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Unfortunately, the "ask for forgiveness" approach is going to bite us in the end. Managers who don't understand geocaching in the first place who think that people are illegally placing caches just get more put off.

 

Things are fine now, but getting these managers to understand the positives of Geocaching is a better approach than putting them out somewhere just hoping it's "ok"... and I think that's technically against the geocaching rules anyway, but it's always been a "grey area".

 

You only need to ask forgiveness if you were doing something wrong to begin with. I'm not a fan of the "geocaching is wrong club" that a lot of people subscribe too. Thankfully the land managers that I know and work with tend to think it's a perfectly find use of their lands since they want people to enjoy the recreational facilities and lands they have worked so hard to make available.

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Unfortunately, the "ask for forgiveness" approach is going to bite us in the end. Managers who don't understand geocaching in the first place who think that people are illegally placing caches just get more put off.

 

Things are fine now, but getting these managers to understand the positives of Geocaching is a better approach than putting them out somewhere just hoping it's "ok"... and I think that's technically against the geocaching rules anyway, but it's always been a "grey area".

 

You only need to ask forgiveness if you were doing something wrong to begin with. I'm not a fan of the "geocaching is wrong club" that a lot of people subscribe too. Thankfully the land managers that I know and work with tend to think it's a perfectly find use of their lands since they want people to enjoy the recreational facilities and lands they have worked so hard to make available.

 

I'm not a fan of the "geocaching is wrong club" either.

 

Read the post above mine.

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....You only need to ask forgiveness if you were doing something wrong to begin with. I'm not a fan of the "geocaching is wrong club" that a lot of people subscribe too. Thankfully the land managers that I know and work with tend to think it's a perfectly find use of their lands since they want people to enjoy the recreational facilities and lands they have worked so hard to make available.

amen!!

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..I'm not a fan of the "geocaching is wrong club" either.

 

Read the post above mine.

True. not exactly a stellar example of how to do things. Especially after you have a "no".

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Just wondering if there was any updates on this issue.

 

We now have two active caching groups here in state. One that covers the valley (read as I-29), and one for the Bismark area (read the capital and I-94). Maybe between us we can get some positive action on this issue.

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I haven't heard anything as of late, but there have been several caches pop up at rest areas (I-94 & I-29) since this thread came out. I did notice recently that some rest areas along I-94 in MN have "DOT approved" logo on their cache page. May be a good idea to see what they're doing over there, then propose something similar here? Perhaps also a good example of how it's okay to have caches at rest areas.

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