Muggle here

[CoyoteRed]

I don't think the issue is really about dogs at all. I think the issue is really about a perceived slight on the part of the mom.

 

So what the dog was not under complete control. There was no injury, not even a mark after a few minutes.

 

I'm not a fan of dogs; too hyper, too slobbery, too "needy." I'm more of a cat person. The family had dogs as we grew up so I can understand the attraction of dogs, but while JohnX's post is less than diplomatic it does have some points that ring true for me. I can't stand for a dog to jump on me. Licking my hand feels like handling slugs or eels, nasty.

 

With that said, I feel the mom completely over reacted and, quite frankly, I feel a little ashamed through association.

 

If the story is as presented, this mom would probably have done the same thing if another mom's toddler got a little rough with her daughter as a toddler. "Your little terror of a girl made my precious cry! How dare you!?"

 

Like has already been mentioned, the geocaching community is made up of a broad spectrum of folks much like nearly any of group. Please don't judge us all by the actions of a few.

[+Cache Heads]

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

You mean if the elderly person was hanging out in a clearly marked off-leash dog park?? Well, I guess that's the chance they took, huh?

 

Seriously, I'm not a dog, cat, baby, etc.... person. But if I choose to enter an area that is clearly set aside for off-leash dogs, then I'm not going to be surprised if I get jumped on by.... an off-leash dog!

 

(That's why I always stay out of the toddler play areas at malls... you think I want to get puked on?? )

Edited October 18, 2006 by Cache Heads

[+Mudfrog]

As for the rest... You sir, are in desparate need of some social skills. I used to think I was bad at getting along with other people. Fortunately, I have people like you to remind me that, though I'm no social butterfly, I'm quite capable of getting along with many people.

Spoken like someone who knows nothing about dogs or animals in general, and very little about people.

JohnX, sounds like you don't get out much.

To JohnX---Don't you have anything useful to do?

Unfortunately for you, dunderheads are not people with whom I can get along.

 

How amusing. When you can't refute a statement, you attack the person who makes it.

 

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

 

A dog jumping on anybody, elderly or not, can have bad consequences. Most times this would be quite unacceptable since we expect this not to happen in most public areas that we visit. But this park (property) is set up for dogs and their owners to enjoy. Signs are posted letting visitors know this so anyone who enters will be aware of the potential to encounter unleashed dogs.

 

I do agree with a previous post above stating that some dog owners think that their dog is the best and that everybody loves their dog. These owners let them run lose in inappropriate areas and the dogs can end up being more annoying than not. Myself, i love dogs and very rarely find them to be annoying but i do know that not everyone sees it this way. Some don't want to be around their dog or put up with it's licking, barking, or playfulness and to my notion, they shouldn't have to be. Of course, i'm talking about areas not purposely set up for pups to enjoy.

 

Also, i have to agree that the cache owner should place some wording on the page letting future finders know what they can expect.

[+tands]

Sissy, your CR made me cry!

 

But really, I'm with CR on this one.

 

- T of TandS

Edited October 18, 2006 by tands

[+cimawr]

 

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

 

It would be completely unacceptable. And as a side note, that's the exact point I used when telling off the owner of the Berner who launched at me from 3 feet away.

 

However, I'm willing to bet that:

A, an elderly person frail enough to break a hip by falling over would NOT choose to go geocaching in the location where the OP and her friend encountered the cachers

B, that if the OP and her friend were in an area where they DID encounter someone that frail, the dogs would either be on leash or would be called and leashed before the dog that jumped would or could do so.

 

You are making a major mistake in projecting the actions of *some* irresponsible dog owners onto ALL dog owners who allow their dogs off-leash in acceptable places.

[+tands]

I think we all pretty much agree that it's no fun to have a dog we don't know jump on us, sometimes that happens, and it can be embarrassing and sometimes dangerous but usually not, and that dogs are part of life no matter where we are, and that dog owners never intentionally mean for their dogs to bother others and try to go to safe places to let them run, and sometimes people over-react and we all are guilty of that, and the best thing is to try to be forgiving and understanding even if we feel others are under or over-reacting.

 

I hope we all agree that we're brothers and sisters and sometimes we hurt eachother a little or a lot but very few of us intend to. I wish I could always remember to take a deep breath whenever I should!

 

- T of TandS

Edited October 18, 2006 by tands

[+cimawr]

 

I do believe the OP mentioned a bite, however, in the original post that has been edited - maybe I am just nuts, but I think it was in the original (unedited) post.

 

No, it wasn't. I read the post before it was edited, and it said the same thing it does now - that the dog momentarily jumped up at a teenager, that the owner immediately controlled the dog and apologized, and that the mother went wierd AFTER the fact, apparently on the seeing a faint mark left by the dog's toenails.

 

Some comments have tried to ameliorate the incident by mentioning the age and size of the child - my oldest is 32, married 10 years. a homeowner, owns a successful electrical contracting business, and is quite the adult - yet he's still my child and if he's bitten I will be just as upset!

 

Sorry, but that's completely irrelevant to this incident. The person was NOT bitten. The "incident" was a matter of having a friendly - albeit not well-trained - dog jump up on her momentarily, apparently making inadvertent contact with its toenails.

If the dog had scatched her badly, continued to jump, knocked her off balance or over, etc., OR if the owner had not immediately controlled the dog and apologized, there might have been some basis for people getting upset.

 

And to make my position clear:

 

Yes, I'm a dog owner. Yes, I walk my dogs off leash. Yes, my dogs hunt.

 

However, I also TRAIN my dogs - in addition to having taught them good everyday manners, they are also champion agility competitors - and I have LESS patience with irresponsible dog owners than many people who don't own dogs at all.

[+cimawr]

 

I won't make fun of you for not wanting to grab a cache with an insane JRT guarding it

 

Ok, what's with the "breedism"??

[+rasj & Stacey]

This is an interesting thread. I would like to add my comments here because this is something that I feel very strongly about. I consider myself to be a "dog person" and I love my dog as much as any other close family member. But she also has rules that she has to live by. Without them, they only thing she has left is instincts. I can not depend on her instincts to keep her (and me) out of trouble.

 

As a responsible dog owner, I have to ensure that my dog will not cause any harm to anyone, ever. She can not even put someone in a position that they feel as if they are in danger. I have to realize that not everyone loves dogs, and some people have a mortal fear of them. German Shepherd Dogs also have a bit of a bad reputation, so I feel I need to be extra careful with mine. For my dog to jump up on anyone, at anytime is completely unacceptable. If she ever does, it's my fault not hers.

 

One mistake a lot of dog owners make is attaching human emotions to their dog. They feel like they are being mean to their dog if they scold them, or give them a correction for breaking a rule. They feel like their dog is not being "a dog" of they aren't allowed to run and play. Some dog owners never even set boundries for their dogs. They have the "dogs like to run and play, it's their nature" attitude.

 

While this is true, it is also true that the dog must be under complete control at all times when off-leash. They need to be trained to stop in their tracks when you give them the command. To stay put until you tell them otherwise. They need to be trained not to jump on people and not to approach other people and dogs without their owners approval, and you should never ever let your dog out of your sight.

 

It isn't "mean" to dogs to train them to do these things. In fact, most dogs absolutely LOVE to train. They want to please, they live for it! Dogs are much happier when they have these rules and limits. They know who their alpha is, and they know their place in the pack. If you don't take the job of pack leader, they will, and then you will have no control over them. Any dog that has the "pack leader" mentality should never ever be let off-leash in public, not even in an off-leash park. You are just asking for trouble, and sooner or later, you're going to get it. Would you let your children grow up without rules and boundries, or let them out of your sight in a public park?

 

I think of raising a dog much like raising a child. They must be taught the rules, and the rules must be strictly enforced. The dog must be corrected everytime they make the wrong choice. This isn't "mean", it's completely natural. In dog packs, the pack leader corrects the other dogs in the pack everytime they make a mistake. From a dog's point of view, that is what you are. YOu are part of the dog's pack. It up to you to become the alpha dog..

 

I think the OPs friend ws lucky, and should take this as a wake up call. It is not okay to think that just because the park is considered off-leash it is okay to let your dog run wild and out of control. The geocachers were not the problem. To the dog, they were just people. Ifit had been other park goers would it have been any different?

 

If the people were just walking their dog instead of geocaching, the dog would have reacted the same way.

 

Please don't take this as a lecture or even "bashing" because it isn't intended that way. I just have my own opinion of "responsible dog owner" and I just don't understand how geocaching has anything to do with it. This was a dog/person interaction that went wrong. The park is open to the public, so people will be there. How the dog reacted to those people, and how those poeple reacted to the dog is the issue here, not the geocache.

 

To Mrshathaway:

I want to commend you on your efforts with your own dog. It takes a special person to do what you have done and it always touches me when I read about those that have sacraficed so that a mistreated dog can live a happy healthy life. A lot of times, our society views animals as "throw away" We get them, abuse them, use them for our own selfish purpose and then toss them aside as if they were trash. I'm alway happy to read about somoene taking it upon themselves to help these animals out. Thank You.

[CinemaBoxers]

While I am a dog owner and lover, and we sometimes bring them along. I DETEST dog owners who DO NOT CONTROL THEIR DOGS.

 

Regardless of where the cache was, or who was IN the park, when you take ANY dog out in public its YOUR responsibility as a dog owner to CONTROL your dog, and NOT allow it to jump up on someone who may not want to be jumped up on.

 

I own dogs, and frequent dog shows, etc.. but I would be VERY unhappy if someone allowed their dog, a stranger to me, to jump up on me or my child. I should be allowed to walk on public property without fear of being assaulted by someone elses dog.

 

Again, I love dogs. We breed and show boxers and attend dog activites, I do dog photography, etc. But dog area or not, the owners need to control their own animal. If you cant keep them from jumping up on every human they encounter, keep them home.

 

As a scenario, lets say that we are all in a PUBLIC park, for humans - Lets pretend that my friend who is with me is a very huggy touchy person- and doesnt understand that some contact is uncomfortable.

They run up to you, a stranger, and hug you, and try to sit on your lap.

I dont think you would be happy, since you dont really know if my friend is friendly, insane, or just happy to see you. Well.. thats how I feel with a strange dog approaching me that is NOT UNDER CONTROL.

 

Im pro dog, but pro responsible owner.

[+Bad_CRC]

lets say that we are all in a PUBLIC park, for humans - Lets pretend that my friend who is with me is a very huggy touchy person- and doesnt understand that some contact is uncomfortable.

They run up to you, a stranger, and hug you, and try to sit on your lap.

 

 

Is she cute?

[+m.pedersen]

Wow, go to bed, and when I finally get a chance to get back, see that I've got a lot of replies to make. Here goes:

 

To reply to cimawr:

Sorry, but that's not necessarily the case.

 

1. Some dogs show their teeth when they're playing, so teeth showing don't automatically equate to "dog wants to do harm".

2. Dogs who show their teeth to menace don't usually do it when RUNNING; they approach slowly.

3. Many dogs DON'T show teeth when approaching with intent to do harm. I, personally, am far more concerned about a dog which approaches with an intent stare and hackles up than one which is showing teeth.

 

I'll agree with you, totally. I'll also point out that I was answering a specific question: How to tell if a dog that is running at you is friendly or intending harm, and do so within 5 seconds? I stand by my answers to that question.

 

I'll also point out my subsequent edit: My answer will only cover you about 75% of the time. You're still going to have to pay attention in each and every instance. No two dogs are identical in what will work for them, and what will not. If there is any uncertainty, keep your distance. This is usually easy to do, especially out in the open.

 

How can I say that? At some point, in order to do you harm, the dog must make an actual lunge or charge. If you are watching the dog, and keeping your distance, you will have sufficient time to be able to step to the side, and push off on the approaching dog. This will throw the dog away from you, and keep more distance. If the dog stays low, the same principle applies: Step to the side, and push, though you must now do it with your legs and feet instead. Regrettably, this will often mean some sort of kick. I don't condone it, but I do understand it, and would use it myself if a dog were attacking me.

 

I also did not cover a slew of other cases. What about a full grown Newfie? St. Bernard? Each of these dogs will have a minimum weight of over 100 pounds. They are considerably harder to push off, and even a knee-check or hip-check could leave you off-balance (or even knocked over). They are considerably harder to defend against should the need arise.

 

Still, much of the time, for much of the canine population of this country, my advice holds sufficient water.

 

While I agree that a hip-check or knee is the appropriate response to being charged and jumped on by an obnoxious dog, it's just as possible that the dog's owner will respond by screaming at you for "kicking their dog" because "he just wanted to play".

BTDT... and I'm a dog owner, who was walking my own dogs at the time. The fact that the dog outweighed me by about 35 lbs and would have knocked me flat (it was a Bernese Mountain Dog) didn't seem to make a difference to his irresponsible owner.

 

You're right, again. That dog owner, though, needs a fairly savage beating with a cluestick. His dog acted in a manner that was too easily mistaken for an attack. If I were the owner of the dog who jumped you, and knocked you over, there would be three things I would do, in this order:

 

1. Pull the dog back under control. If it was off-leash, it would now be on. Get the dog physically removed from you as part of this, so that you have space in which to move/act/stand again.

2. Check to see if you're okay, and deal with any injuries (hopefully, you'd have sustained none).

3. Discipline the dog. One of the pieces of said discipline would be an immediate end to the outing. It goes home, now. End of story. And the dog will know that I'm very displeased with it. Beat the dog? No. But it will have to assume a submissive posture for me, and for you.

 

To reply to JohnX

Your reply was one of the funniest of them all, actually. You quoted me twice, though put the quotes at the beginning and ending of your "selection" of quotes, so that people would think there were more attacks. Clever boy, I guess.

 

The reality is that you showed yourself to be of such a pathetical social skills level and reading comprehension skills level here that, in person, I'd bet you would be unable to say even 1/10 of what you did. The internet makes things nice and anonymous, which is what people like you need. It allows you to lash out and make yourself feel superior.

 

Enjoy the anonymity. It seems to make you feel better.

 

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

 

Did I saw it was acceptable for the dog to jump? Has anybody? If so, I've sure not seen it. What has been said is that the cacher in question severely overreacted. No harm was done, and the dog owners were very sorry that it occurred. Heck, you've even been given some advice (along with some others!) on how to handle unknown dog encounters.

 

The whole incident shouldn't have happened. But it was made needlessly worse by a cacher acting like an utter jerk. And then the original poster who brought it all up gets people like you responding, telling her she's a horrible person. It's sad, really. It is.

 

To reply to NotThePaint/Paul

I am truly sorry to hear of what happened with you and dogs. I would not try and cure your phobia, but then again, I'm not a psychiatrist.

 

However, something that can be done that might help out a bit: Find a nearby friend who has a puppy. The younger, the better. You see, puppies have near limitless energy (at least, that's how it seems). They also don't know very well how to control themselves. Sit down and play with that puppy. The rougher the playtime, the better. I don't mean that you (or the puppy) should be allowed to attack. But allow the puppy to play with you as roughly as it wants. You will get nipped. It might even draw some blood, but will likely not require serious medical care (a band-aid covers dang near everything that puppies will do).

 

Now, why do that? You're going to learn how to protect yourself from that puppy so that it doesn't do harm to you. If you play with it regularly, you're going to learn how to protect yourself as it turns into a dog, too. The end result is that you will no longer be nearly as afraid of dogs (well, you would at least have less reason to do so), as you now know something about how dogs move. Because of that, you gain some knowledge of self-defense. Not perfect knowledge, to be sure, but definitely some.

 

If you don't want to do that, that's okay. It's just an idea I had that I hoped might be able to help you out.

 

To reply to CoyoteRed

You're right on one thing: I'm a dog lover, and have never liked the feeling of a dog licking me. I understand why they do it, and why they need to, so tolerate it. But definitely don't like it.

 

As for jumping: On me? Fine. On anybody else? Nope, not tolerated.

 

And finally, to Ms. Hathaway

Like others on this board, I'll apologize for a bad first experience. And make an offer: If ever you're in NW New Jersey, stop on by. Jess and I will take you geocaching somewhere. Or maybe just make a meal, who knows. Anyway, I think you'll agree that we can be lots nicer than the one caching group you've met. Oh, and dogs are not only welcome, but very nearly mandatory

[+Mudfrog]

In my mind i can see a perky Golden Retriever catching a frisbee at one of these parks. He's playing, jumping, running, and having a good time. Now, if i came to this park and saw this happening, then i would certainly think that this same dog might want to come over and check me out as well. I would think the same thing if i saw signs stating that dogs may be unleashed. We are in the real world here. Not everyone can or in my opinion, needs to train their dog to be perfectly obedient. Yes we do need to control our dog when necessary and we sure don't want to bring a half crazed pooch out to let him run wild. But in the OP's scenario, it's something that can and will happen from time to time.

[+Swink Family]

I think we all pretty much agree that it's no fun to have a dog we don't know jump on us, sometimes that happens, and it can be embarrassing and sometimes dangerous but usually not, and that dogs are part of life no matter where we are, and that dog owners never intentionally mean for their dogs to bother others and try to go to safe places to let them run, and sometimes people over-react and we all are guilty of that, and the best thing is to try to be forgiving and understanding even if we feel others are under or over-reacting.

 

I hope we all agree that we're brothers and sisters and sometimes we hurt eachother a little or a lot but very few of us intend to. I wish I could always remember to take a deep breath whenever I should!

 

- T of TandS

Well put! Kudos to you for mentioning forgiveness, we need more of that term these days!

[+hikemeister]

Question: If you have a GC.com account and have posted a thread on the forum, does that make you a Muggle or a Potential Geocacher?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

And when forgiveness isn't in your vocabulary, there's always this.

[+Moose Mob]

Question: If you have a GC.com account and have posted a thread on the forum, does that make you a Muggle or a Potential Geocacher?

Assuming you include the "No hides, no finds" criteria implied by the use of the term Potential Geocacher, it would usually mean the account is a sock puppet.

 

We strongly suspect this one isn't.

[+Renegade Knight]

...The whole point of my diatribe is that, I know this park is for everyone, dog walkers, geo-cachers, everyone, but there needs to mutual consideration between all parties. If you visit a place have respect for the people that have been walking their dogs there for years....

 

Not so long ago I found a dog. It was friendly as heck and it followed me home. I lived in an appartment complex and left it outside figuring it would eventually go home. The complex had a lot of kids who gravitated towards this dog. No problem, it was friendly after all. I'm in the house taking a break (I'm in college at this point) with the door open listening to my kids play. Suddenly the dog growls in a way that says "I'm out for blood" and I'm out the door like a flash. I jump into the middle of a kid and the dog. The dog is on top of a kid biting his face. I grabed the dog and throw him across the yard not really caring if he bounced a few times. Turns out the dog had drew blood from a couple of slashes on the kids face. I took the kid to his parents who had english as a second language and told them what they needed to do and know as best as I could. I can't say what the kids did if anything that caused the dog to turn like that.

 

I also own a dog. My dog is extremely gun shy. She will bolt at a strange sound. I may not see her for awhile if I'm away from home. My dog is friendly as heck, hasn't bitten anyone, probably wouldn't bit anyone, but thats' for pepole. Other dogs get exactly one of two reactions. She will fight, or she will be friendly. I flat out can't tell what goes into the friend or fight equation. While I like to run my dog without a leash, I have to keep these things in mind if I do.

 

Your friend may be 100% in the right when it comes to having his dog off leash in that area. The law may allow for it, their dog may be 100% friendly and always have that friendly reaction with other dogs. More power to your friend. The jumping on people is a bit much though since when you are on the recieving end you can't always tell the meaning of the dogs intent, could be allergic, or don't like dogs. From your friends standpoint since they can't know this or can't know how someone will react when their dog jumps on someone they need to factor that in when they have their dog off leash. Unless it's a dedicated dog off leash park they have to be as mindful of others as others need to be aware of them.

 

I opened this post with the story because when it comes to a strangers dog, I can't ever tell and I have all of a few seconds to react. If I had thought that dog was going to be a danger in any way, I would have either grabbed it and thrown it against a tree or beat it senseless. Or maybe just made a valiant attempt. If I thought it was friendly I'd probably just intercept and tone down it's enthusiasm and if I'm wrong, well...I'm not afraid of dogs and I'm a lot bigger than my kids. Like I said, I can't always tell. Neither can you.

 

Mindful works both ways. Hysterical people are not mindful. Just scared. Your friend did the right thing in keeping their wits about them in the face of hysteria, and yet the loose dog did cause the panic. It wasn't intensional but it wasn't from factoring in how his dog is and how people can be.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+VeryLost]

How amusing. When you can't refute a statement, you attack the person who makes it.

 

You weren't 'attacked' out of an inability to refute your statements, but rather because the way in which you chose to communicate pretty much demanded such a response. Your statements were pointlessly crass, and as such didn't warrant greater effort.

 

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

 

Putting aside for the moment that your hypothetical situation is nothing but a sloppy straw man argument...

 

It would be regrettable, but life is full of risks, and if the elderly person chooses to walk in a clearly marked off-leash park, they are accepting that risk.

[+cimawr]

 

I'll also point out my subsequent edit: My answer will only cover you about 75% of the time. You're still going to have to pay attention in each and every instance. No two dogs are identical in what will work for them, and what will not. If there is any uncertainty, keep your distance. This is usually easy to do, especially out in the open.

 

 

Yep, I saw that, and agreed.

 

Regrettably, this will often mean some sort of kick. I don't condone it, but I do understand it, and would use it myself if a dog were attacking me.

 

 

And yep again. I HAVE used my feet on other people's dogs, although to protect my dogs rather than myself. I have also picked dogs up (by the scruff and either the tail or the loose skin over the tail) and thrown them,and/or yanked them up by their collars and marched them to their owners with their forefeet up off the ground.

My response to objections is that I don't appreciate being forced to control their dogs, and that if they had bothered to control the dog themselves, I wouldn't have had to do it.

 

On other occasions, I've told people in no uncertain terms that if they allow their dog to continue or repeat a behaviour, I'll be forced to control the dog, and neither they nor the dog is going to like what I'll do- so I suggest they do all of us a favor and control the dog themselves.

 

Mind you, I reserve those responses for dogs that are actually going after one of my dogs or other dogs at the park, and/or which have repeated an obnoxious behaviour several times with no effective correction or attempt at control from the owner - and normally only after trying a more tactful response first.

However, I long ago decided that I'd rather be blunt, and have someone think I'm a nasty mean person, than err on the side of "nice" and allow really obnoxious or dangerous behaviour to escalate into injury to my dogs, other dogs, or people.

 

My responses also depend on whether or not the dog owner *recognizes* the issue and is making efforts to change it. If someone's genuinely making an effort to train or retrain a dog, my first response is going to be to offer help.

 

I also did not cover a slew of other cases. What about a full grown Newfie? St. Bernard? Each of these dogs will have a minimum weight of over 100 pounds. They are considerably harder to push off, and even a knee-check or hip-check could leave you off-balance (or even knocked over).

 

Yep. Which is why I let the owner of the Bernese have both barrels WRT the fact that if her dog had knocked me down and broken my arm or given me a concussion, or worse, it really wouldn't matter how "friendly" he was, now would it?

 

You're right, again. That dog owner, though, needs a fairly savage beating with a cluestick. His dog acted in a manner that was too easily mistaken for an attack.

 

It was a she, and as noted above, she GOT a good verbal cluestick beating. Haven't ever seen her at the park since, either.

 

If I were the owner of the dog who jumped you, and knocked you over,

 

He didn't precisely jump up - he charged at me and LAUNCHED himself horizontally at my chest. I'm under 5' tall, and at the time weighed 102. Had he made contact as intended, I would have been knocked down hard on an uneven macadam path.

However, fortunately, I was not only able to read the dog's intention, but to step back at the last second and send him flying with a hard knee in the chest. Not tooting my own horn, it just happens that I practiced judo for 15+ years, AND I've been training dogs since I was about 11 & I worked for a number of years exercising, training, and handling other people's dogs... so I had considerably better than average skills for handling the situation. The owner was VERY lucky that it *was* me that it happened to, although she probably didn't think so while I was telling her off.

 

I work very hard to teach my dogs to have good manners (both of my current dogs, incidentally, are shelter adoptees who had "issues"), and nothing ticks me off more than clueless eejits who give all dog owners a bad rep.

 

As a side note, in response to a couple of other comments in this thread... the obed. instructor at the facility where I originally trained for agility tells all her beginning students that one of the WORST things you can do for your dog, and for dog owners in general, is to ASSume that everyone will love your dog as much as you do.

 

 

 

As for jumping: On me? Fine. On anybody else? Nope, not tolerated.

 

 

I put it on command. I have one dog who learned to jump before I got her; I trained her to ask permission, and she now never jumps up on anyone she doesn't know very well.

 

As a general comment, IMO the appropriate response to being jumped on by a *puppy* is not to use one's knee, but to turn away and ignore, then turn back, pet, and praise as soon as the pup's feet hit the ground again. Rinse, lather, and repeat as often as needed.

If you don't like dogs & don't want to pet, just keep turning away, and ask the owner to please get their dog (if they aren't already doing so).

 

Puppies jump to get attention, and it's ridiculously easy to teach them to keep their feet on the ground if you remove the attention when they jump, and immediately return it while feet are on the ground. I have taught innumerable puppies at the park not to jump on me in less than 2 minutes.

 

 

Like others on this board, I'll apologize for a bad first experience. And make an offer: If ever you're in NW New Jersey, stop on by. Jess and I will take you geocaching somewhere. Or maybe just make a meal, who knows. Anyway, I think you'll agree that we can be lots nicer than the one caching group you've met. Oh, and dogs are not only welcome, but very nearly mandatory

 

Ditto that, if you're ever in the vicinity of NE Maryland (Cecil County, which borders both PA and DE) or near Baltimore.

[+Sissy-n-CR]

Sissy, your CR made me cry!

 

But really, I'm with CR on this one.

 

- T of TandS

 

Better you than me! As long as he keeps the angst on the forums and not in the house, I'm a happy camper.

[+olbluesguy]

Whenever a dog jumps up on me I step on his back feet.

two or three times, and he get's the message.

[+m.pedersen]

My response to objections is that I don't appreciate being forced to control their dogs, and that if they had bothered to control the dog themselves, I wouldn't have had to do it.

Mind you, I reserve those responses for dogs that are actually going after one of my dogs or other dogs at the park, and/or which have repeated an obnoxious behaviour several times with no effective correction or attempt at control from the owner - and normally only after trying a more tactful response first.

However, I long ago decided that I'd rather be blunt, and have someone think I'm a nasty mean person, than err on the side of "nice" and allow really obnoxious or dangerous behaviour to escalate into injury to my dogs, other dogs, or people.

 

Ah, it sounds like we are very much in agreement. I know I can be rather offputting with some of my comments. Sometimes, that's okay, but I don't generally have that as a goal.

 

Yep. Which is why I let the owner of the Bernese have both barrels WRT the fact that if her dog had knocked me down and broken my arm or given me a concussion, or worse, it really wouldn't matter how "friendly" he was, now would it?

 

Very much it wouldn't have mattered. I'm glad you weren't injured by it, definitely.

 

He didn't precisely jump up - he charged at me and LAUNCHED himself horizontally at my chest. I'm under 5' tall, and at the time weighed 102. Had he made contact as intended, I would have been knocked down hard on an uneven macadam path.

However, fortunately, I was not only able to read the dog's intention, but to step back at the last second and send him flying with a hard knee in the chest. Not tooting my own horn, it just happens that I practiced judo for 15+ years, AND I've been training dogs since I was about 11 & I worked for a number of years exercising, training, and handling other people's dogs... so I had considerably better than average skills for handling the situation. The owner was VERY lucky that it *was* me that it happened to, although she probably didn't think so while I was telling her off.

 

Ahh, toot your own horn. The fact that neither you nor dog got injured by its error in judgment is a great thing. Very nice moves, and sounds like something that would be worth learning. Of course, getting in shape again would be even better (so far out of shape it's not even funny).

 

Funnily enough, I'm actually getting something of a workout on the weekends, since I started geocaching. And it is helping. It's a long walk with a goal in mind. And since we seem to be doing terrain 3 hikes, it's definitely a workout.

 

I put it on command. I have one dog who learned to jump before I got her; I trained her to ask permission, and she now never jumps up on anyone she doesn't know very well.

As a general comment, IMO the appropriate response to being jumped on by a *puppy* is not to use one's knee, but to turn away and ignore, then turn back, pet, and praise as soon as the pup's feet hit the ground again. Rinse, lather, and repeat as often as needed.

If you don't like dogs & don't want to pet, just keep turning away, and ask the owner to please get their dog (if they aren't already doing so).

Puppies jump to get attention, and it's ridiculously easy to teach them to keep their feet on the ground if you remove the attention when they jump, and immediately return it while feet are on the ground. I have taught innumerable puppies at the park not to jump on me in less than 2 minutes.

 

Now that is an amazingly useful training tip, and one I would have loved to known for longer than 5 minutes. Thank you! That will be used on our next puppy, definitely.

 

I already knew that ignoring/banishing is incredibly effective for dogs, but never knew about the "jumping for attention" bit. Most useful!

 

Ditto that, if you're ever in the vicinity of NE Maryland (Cecil County, which borders both PA and DE) or near Baltimore.

 

Hey, you're down there? That's only about a 2 hour drive for me, and I've got another friend in the area. He also happens to be a cacher. Maybe we should try and get all four of us together for a day (including my wife, who is loving caching!), just to hang out a bit. His member name is mykaen. What do you think? Shall we try for it?

[+Sissy-n-CR]

While CR and I were out walking through the neighborhood today, we were greeted by a fit, unneutered male pit bull. The subdivision is a neighborhood of 2500 single family ranch houses, most of which have fenced yards. This dog still has his tail and ears, so I doubt he was ever used for fighting. He also had a choke collar and expired rabies tag.

 

He followed us a ways, walking ahead of us about 15 feet, running into yards to greet all the dogs behind fences. I soon realized that he was in danger of being hit, and not likely to go home on his own. I asked a man who was working in his garage for a piece of rope, and he gave me a chain that a chandelier once hung on. I called the dog to me and leashed him. We continued our walk with no problems untill we met another man walking a huge rott. I had to pretty much walk the pit on his hind legs past him. The other man just stopped in order to maintain control of his dog. Needless to say, I'm glad I had leashed him.

 

I called the vet's # on the tag and was given the owner's info. I was also informed that they had received a call about the dog last week. The owner's phone is disconnected, and hasn't lived at the address of record for more than a year.

 

I tell you all this because I need some help, and with several of you being dog experts, I know I'll get it.

 

CR does not want a dog. Period. I would really like a dog, but I am not a big fan of slobber and smell (this dog stinks)! Is there a way to get him to slobber less?

 

I have two cats. I brought the dog in, and as long as I am in the room, he will lay on the towel I put down for him. He is very interested in the cats (who are avoiding him), but knows I want him to stay on the towel. How do I get him to stay put when I am out of his sight?

 

When we are in the back yard, he wants to go and greet my neighbor's jack russells. I have a privacy fence, so he wants to race along the back edge and get them barking. I have walked back and retrieved him, the first time by pulling him back with his collar, and the second by going out and scolding him and making him walk back to the patio. As long as I am out there with him, he will stay on the patio and leave the other dogs alone. Is there a way to teach him that it is never ok to mess with the other dogs? Is there a way to get his attention without having to walk back and stand in front of him? He does not respond to his name or to any other verbalizations when he is intent on the other dogs.

 

If I could get the smells under control, I might have a shot at getting CR to let me keep him.

 

Sissy

[+denali7]

Something else about dog parks that may be useful to add here. I have been to dog parks several times and have encountered other dog owners who walk around with a pocket of treats. In all cases they have asked permission before giving my dog a treat, which I appreciate and is fine with me, but, needless to say, my dog quickly learned to check out other people as we walk along. There is no way for outsiders who visit a dog park to fully comprehend the "culture" of the place, which is a great reason for them to think twice before entering such a park to cache, particularly if they don't really like to be around dogs.

 

A big dog running toward people can be very intimidating to non dog-lovers. For this reason, it seems pretty important that the CO include the nature of such a park in the cache description. It also seems pretty important that cachers who don't like dogs skip these caches when they arrive and see the park signs. Dog parks are always well-marked as such, so they have the freedom to choose, regardless of whether or not the cachepage stated it was a dog park.

 

eta: Sissy, don't think there's much to be done about the slobber, but there are some good odor-neutralizing sprays around. Use them when brushing, between baths. Check out your local farm center or feed store. Another good trick for damp dog smell, like when he comes in from the rain, is to rub him down with a used dryer sheet after towel drying. Sounds like you found a pretty good dog, best wishes!

Edited October 18, 2006 by denali7

[+Kabuthunk]

I think walking in an off-leash dog park is like swimming in a strong-undercurrent area. It's marked so that you know the risks. If you drown, it's your own dadgum fault.

 

With the dog park, I can see that if it attacks you and shreds your arm, then there's issues with the dog's control and training, etc, etc. If it's having fun and wants to play, doesn't attack you, just basically puts it's paws up on you... that's what you expect. Like expecting undertow at a strong-undertow river.

 

Hence... the woman who did the yelling was clearly overprotectively insane, and should be completely disregarded. It's sad they got associated with geocaching, but she could have just as easily done that while playing frisbee (thus making frisbee players look bad ).

[+JoGPS]

mshathaway, would like to thank you for posting here on the site it is much appreciated by many of my fellow cachers

 

When we are out hunting caches we should be aware of our surrounding not only for animals of any type but also to respect where we are at as a guest usually in a different areas than where we would be. My apologies to you and your friend

 

If all muggle’s were like you this would be a much better game.

 

The last time I was bitten by a dog it was in a park that had a leash law, the dog was on a short one at that but did not stop the little bugger from getting me after passing on a trail

 

Thanks again for posting here

 

Joe

[+Renegade Knight]

How amusing. When you can't refute a statement, you attack the person who makes it.

 

You weren't 'attacked' out of an inability to refute your statements, but rather because the way in which you chose to communicate pretty much demanded such a response. Your statements were pointlessly crass, and as such didn't warrant greater effort.

 

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

 

Putting aside for the moment that your hypothetical situation is nothing but a sloppy straw man argument...

 

It would be regrettable, but life is full of risks, and if the elderly person chooses to walk in a clearly marked off-leash park, they are accepting that risk.

 

True they are risking that a dog may jump on them in eager anticipation of being petted. They are not assuming the risk of injury. It is a reasonable expectation that an off leash dog is not going to cause harm. If the dog would cause harm the it's expected that the owner would not let it off the leash. That includes a super friendly Irish Wolf Hound without a mean bone in his body eagerly jumping on the young and elderly in excitement about a new friend.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Hence... the woman who did the yelling was clearly overprotectively insane, and should be completely disregarded. ...

 

Not addressing what's causing the hysteria especially when it involves perceived danger to a persons child is a good way to get yourself hurt. That's also part of being aware of your surroundings.

[Guyute1210]

 

I tell you all this because I need some help, and with several of you being dog experts, I know I'll get it.

 

CR does not want a dog. Period. I would really like a dog, but I am not a big fan of slobber and smell (this dog stinks)! Is there a way to get him to slobber less?

 

I have two cats. I brought the dog in, and as long as I am in the room, he will lay on the towel I put down for him. He is very interested in the cats (who are avoiding him), but knows I want him to stay on the towel. How do I get him to stay put when I am out of his sight?

 

...

 

If I could get the smells under control, I might have a shot at getting CR to let me keep him.

 

Sissy

Not much you can do about slobbering...It's part of the dog. I have a Boxer, which has big jowles <sp> and she slobbers quite a bit. We just keep a couple old rags/towels around and wipe her off when the slobber starts running.

 

As far as the smell. It probably needs a bath...or 2 or 3...

 

We have a cat too, and they tend to not "like" or trust a dog, but with time, they seem to get over it.

 

Having the dog stay put when you are out of sight is tricky. You need to start with a command (i.e. Stay) and a hand gesture helps too. I use my palm facing the dog, like the old "talk to the hand..." gesture.

 

Once you get the dog to sit or lay down and use the Stay command, back away from the dog, and if it trys to get up, go back to him and start over. Now when you leave the room, I usually just hide right around the corner and when I hear the dog get up, I show myself and say "NO", and start over again. Some dogs, it can take 1hr or less (like one of my dogs) and others can take weeks of practice (like my other dog). Rinse, lather, repeat...HTH's.

[+cimawr]

 

Is there a way to teach him that it is never ok to mess with the other dogs? Is there a way to get his attention without having to walk back and stand in front of him? He does not respond to his name or to any other verbalizations when he is intent on the other dogs.

 

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but considering this dog's breed and the behaviour he's showing when seeing other dogs, I urge you to think very, very hard about whether you want to take on both a liability and life-long management of a dog-aggressive dog.

 

SOAPBOX MODE ON:

 

The vast majority of Pit Bulls are wonderful, friendly, loving dogs - with PEOPLE. Until very recently, they were always selectively bred to have almost NO aggression towards humans, and most of them retain that instinct.

However, they were ALSO specifically and selectively bred for the purpose of fighting and killing other dogs, and NO amount of training will remove the instinct.

 

If well-trained from puppyhood, and handled by VERY EXPERIENCED people who know how to read the dog's body language (Pits often don't "signify" when they attack other dogs), they can be prevented from *acting* on the instinct, but it is there and must always be considered.

Most Pits don't attack *every* dog they see, but some will; some are fine with select dogs they know, some are fine with all dogs under a certain size, etc. But every responsible & educated Pit owner I know, as well as every respectable Pit Bull rescue organization, will tell you that you should NEVER trust a Pit not to fight.

 

It's exactly the same as always needing to be aware that Beagles mayl chase rabbits, Jack Russells may kill small prey animals and harass larger ones, Greyhounds will run, etc. It doesn't make them bad dogs, it simply makes them animals doing what they were created to do.

The issue, of course, is that in the case of Pit Bulls, the instinctive behavior is extremely dangerous to other people's pets.

 

Given that this dog is an intact adult male who has been running loose, and that he is showing intent focus on other dogs, odds are very high that he is already "turned on" to the desire to fight other dogs. If you want to keep him, again, you need to be prepared to take that extremely seriously.

 

I would strongly suggest immediately investing in a break stick: Break Sticks

 

And here are some links for you to educate yourself about the breed; the websites are well-known and respected organizations which deal with Pit Bull rescue:

 

Pros and Cons of owning a Pit Bull - scroll down to the section highlighted in grey

 

PBRC

 

This page is about living with more than one Pit, but has good tips on how to forestall fighting:

Living with multiple pits

 

Pit Bulls at Dog Parks

 

 

As well as a quote from one of the pages (for those who might argue the above):

 

"Never trust a pit bull not to fight.

It is not a hate of other dogs that causes pit bulls to fight, but rather an "urge" to do so that has been bred into the dogs for many generations. Pit bulls may fight over hierarchic status, but external stimulus or excitement can also trigger a fight. Remember that any canine can fight, but pit bulls were bred specifically for their drive, intensity, and determination to win.

 

Pit bull owners must be aware of the remarkable fighting abilities these dogs posses and always keep in mind that pit bulls have the potential to inflict serious injury to other animals. A pit bull may not even be the one starting a conflict, but he has the genetics to finish it. Remember that pit bulls are almost always blamed no matter who initiated the hostilities, and often end up paying the price...as does the owner!."

 

SOAPBOX MODE OFF.

[+Sissy-n-CR]

 

SOAPBOX MODE OFF.

 

Thanks for all the great info!

[CoyoteRed]

SOAPBOX MODE OFF.

 

You couldn't know it, but you were backing me up on owning a Pit. Thanks for providing this information. Coming from someone else might get the message across.

 

Thanks!

[+VeryLost]

True they are risking that a dog may jump on them in eager anticipation of being petted. They are not assuming the risk of injury.

 

I believe JohnX chose that particular (artificial) example specifically because a dog, meaning no harm whatsoever, could easily knock over and injure an elderly person by playfully jumping up to get petted.

 

It is a reasonable expectation that an off leash dog is not going to cause harm. If the dog would cause harm the it's expected that the owner would not let it off the leash.

 

I would never have such an expectation, and I don't consider it reasonable. Dogs may behave in unexpected ways - they are not rational creatures. Nor, in many cases, are people, so it isn't necesarily safe to assume that a dog owner would always leash a potentially dangerous dog, especially in an off-leash dog park.

[+Sissy-n-CR]

I took the dog out for an evening walk before bed tonight, and the owner drove by!

 

Dog and owner are reunited (after I spoke to him about updating his info with the vet and providing better security).

 

I will miss him!

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

I don't think the issue is really about dogs at all. I think the issue is really about a perceived slight on the part of the mom.

 

So what the dog was not under complete control. There was no injury, not even a mark after a few minutes.

 

I'm not a fan of dogs; too hyper, too slobbery, too "needy." I'm more of a cat person. The family had dogs as we grew up so I can understand the attraction of dogs, but while JohnX's post is less than diplomatic it does have some points that ring true for me. I can't stand for a dog to jump on me. Licking my hand feels like handling slugs or eels, nasty.

 

With that said, I feel the mom completely over reacted and, quite frankly, I feel a little ashamed through association.

 

If the story is as presented, this mom would probably have done the same thing if another mom's toddler got a little rough with her daughter as a toddler. "Your little terror of a girl made my precious cry! How dare you!?"

 

Like has already been mentioned, the geocaching community is made up of a broad spectrum of folks much like nearly any of group. Please don't judge us all by the actions of a few.

 

CR, there are many different breeds of dogs and they are all quite different from the others, you statement is no different than the original blanket statement that all Geocachers are ...

Most hyperactive dogs are that way because of the owners, I have seen several hyper dogs go to new owners and within a month they are as calm and laid back as can be.

 

We each have preferences, you don't have to like dogs. But if you went to a dog park, posted off leash, and a dog jumped on you, I'm sure you agree, it's your fault, not the dogs.

 

Like my Dad once told me, a dog will make a liar of you everytime.

Translation, no matter how will trained your dog is, they will do something they shouldn't, and knew they shouldn't do.

 

As for cats, heard this today, true story. A disabled womans cat set her home on fire by knocking over a candle. (Why she left a burning candle unattended>>>)

Her dog first brought her the phone, so she could call for help. Then he brought her artificial leg and helped her get outside.

THEN the dog went back inside the burning home to rescue the cat who started the fire.

 

I'll stick with my dog, AND my cats, I like both.

[mshathaway]

Again I thank everyone for their responses, it seems that a pretty informative discussion has developed as relates to dogs, lots of good posts, courteous posts. I saw the "forum" not sure if that's the right term for this particular cache site, and can see it is filled with comments that would lead anyone to beleive the location has lots of dogs.

 

Thank you for the invites to geocache, really nice, made me feel good, and good about the members here, nice people, I am a technical disaster but enjoy finding new spots, love the woods, and especially like the idea of discovering close by spots that I never knew existed. However at this point in my life; just bought my first home two weeks ago, my dog, demanding work schedule, and I foster dogs also, it is a hobby that I would be unable to explore at least for the near future.

 

As far as people at the dog park being angry, they are, they are passionate about their dogs and this place, so when anything negative occurs, hackles go up. There have been a few other incidents innvolving "dogless people" who reacted negatively to the presence of dogs, that is making people wonder.

 

My dog is not the most "trained" dog out there, he is a hound, howeve in my opinion he is a happy, well behaved boy, he is of the "short variety", and does not jump on people, but if he could he probably would, I work with him but do not expect him to be a robot. If I see people at this park who do not have dogs, I will endeavor to leash my dog, or yell to the people to ask if they require me to leash my dog. I think it all boils down to communication, give and take, compromise, common courtesy.

 

In summary, thanks for letting me visit your world, and I hope my visit did not upset anyone or hurt anyone, the tone of my intial post was of a venting nature for sure, but I tried to be courteous, thanks for returning the favor.

 

Stay safe on your hunts.

 

p.s. re: staying safe, if the person who owns this cache is reading, in addtion to notifying geo-cachers about the presence of dogs, please addtionally notify them of the presence of coyotes in this area, there is a coyote den in very close proximity to the box( it is about 200' south of the path in the cedar hollows when you first enter from the field side), not too much too worry about during the day, but dusk is not a time you would want to be in the cedar hollows alone, especially if you are walking with a small dog, lots of coyotes in the woods off the fields in this park.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

It is a reasonable expectation that an off leash dog is not going to cause harm. If the dog would cause harm the it's expected that the owner would not let it off the leash.

 

I would never have such an expectation, and I don't consider it reasonable. Dogs may behave in unexpected ways - they are not rational creatures. Nor, in many cases, are people, so it isn't necesarily safe to assume that a dog owner would always leash a potentially dangerous dog, especially in an off-leash dog park.

 

True enough. Very recently I broke one of the rules I have for dealing with dogs with the neighbors dog. I didn't make eye contact and turned my back to go about my business while the dog was being yappy aggressive. He came up and bit me. I turned around and he ran like heck and that ended that. The dumb dog is all of 6" tall and no harm was done. Still it just reminded me of the facts. Ever since I've made that dog know I've the boss and he's been ok. The neighbor was very suprised the dog big me.

[+El Diablo]

We love a good debate here. We tend to learn a lot from different perspectives. Thank you for bringing it up!

 

El Diablo

[+Renegade Knight]

....Thank you for the invites to geocache, really nice, made me feel good, and good about the members here, nice people, I am a technical disaster but enjoy finding new spots, love the woods, and especially like the idea of discovering close by spots that I never knew existed. However at this point in my life; just bought my first home two weeks ago, my dog, demanding work schedule, and I foster dogs also, it is a hobby that I would be unable to explore at least for the near future....

 

You would find that geocaching fits well with other activites, including getting out with your dog. You would be a welcome addition to geocaching; either now or later when you find more time.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

How amusing. When you can't refute a statement, you attack the person who makes it.

 

You weren't 'attacked' out of an inability to refute your statements, but rather because the way in which you chose to communicate pretty much demanded such a response. Your statements were pointlessly crass, and as such didn't warrant greater effort.

 

I have to wonder how acceptable it would be if the jumping dog knocked over a elderly person who then broke a hip.

 

Putting aside for the moment that your hypothetical situation is nothing but a sloppy straw man argument...

 

It would be regrettable, but life is full of risks, and if the elderly person chooses to walk in a clearly marked off-leash park, they are accepting that risk.

 

True they are risking that a dog may jump on them in eager anticipation of being petted. They are not assuming the risk of injury. It is a reasonable expectation that an off leash dog is not going to cause harm. If the dog would cause harm the it's expected that the owner would not let it off the leash. That includes a super friendly Irish Wolf Hound without a mean bone in his body eagerly jumping on the young and elderly in excitement about a new friend.

 

All dogs need to run, every day. They cannot run on a leash, people are not that fast. Some people have big fenced in yards, I have 80 acres, but some people who love dogs have nowhere, except off leash parks.

Not everyone of these people are able to train a dog to such perfect control they can be trusted 100%, my late dog Poncho was that well trained, my current dog is not. I got Poncho when I was in College and living in an apartment, I got Buddy while living on an 80 acre farm.

 

Also, dogs signal their desire to play by bowing, among other clues. A person bent over a cache would very likely be perceived by a dog as ASKING the dog to play with them, not surprising at all it jumped on the child, it thought the kid wanted to play.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

....Thank you for the invites to geocache, really nice, made me feel good, and good about the members here, nice people, I am a technical disaster but enjoy finding new spots, love the woods, and especially like the idea of discovering close by spots that I never knew existed. However at this point in my life; just bought my first home two weeks ago, my dog, demanding work schedule, and I foster dogs also, it is a hobby that I would be unable to explore at least for the near future....

 

You would find that geocaching fits well with other activites, including getting out with your dog. You would be a welcome addition to geocaching; either now or later when you find more time.

 

I second that. If you can't cache now at least stay in touch here, when you finally are ready you'll already have a foot in the door.

Also the great thing about caching is you don't have to do it all the time, I seldom get out but enjoy the times I do. I started by buying a cheap used GPS off e-bay, later on I upgraded to a Gamin etrex Legend, now I have a 60CSx with maps, which also comes in very handy at work, like today when i had to drive 40 miles into unfamiliar rural territory to make a delivery.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

[+cimawr]

 

Thanks for all the great info!

 

You're very welcome!

 

BTW, I *like* Pit Bull Terriers, although they are not a breed I, personally, would choose to own**. I just don't like them off-leash around my own dogs... and have seen far too much trouble and heartbreak occur when well-meaning people take them on without understanding their nature.

 

** I spend too much time in parks where there are off-leash dogs, and at agility compeitions, to want to own a dog of *any* breed with strong fighting instincts.

I am, however, nuts enough to live with multiple "high-drive" hunting dogs; a lurcher and a Redbone Coonhound cross... and until recently, a Jack Russell Terrier. In fact, I'm nuts enough to be preparing to take on another Jack.

[+rasj & Stacey]

In fact, I'm nuts enough to be preparing to take on another Jack.

 

wow, you are nuts...

 

Wouldn't it be awesome, though, to have that much energy? I know I would love to have it. I tend to have the energy of a 10 year old basset hound lately.

[+denali7]

I took the dog out for an evening walk before bed tonight, and the owner drove by!

 

Dog and owner are reunited (after I spoke to him about updating his info with the vet and providing better security).

 

I will miss him!

 

This is the best news I've read here all day! Hopefully the owner will take to heart what you told him.

[+Moore9KSUcats]

Also, dogs signal their desire to play by bowing, among other clues. A person bent over a cache would very likely be perceived by a dog as ASKING the dog to play with them, not surprising at all it jumped on the child, it thought the kid wanted to play.

 

Wow.... we just got a new pup 2 1/2 weeks ago (4-5 months old). He is very timid in new situations (but quickly getting better), as he had very little socialization (virtually no socialization) at his previous home. I had him out for a walk today, and we met a doxie. The doxie did the usual sniff routine, while my pup timidly cowered. A few minutes later, after he got a bit more comfortable, he did the little "bow" routine. I figured he was trying to get the other dog to play, and this confirms it! It has been fun to watch his "submission" type of behavior in interacting with our 5 cats, and with us. Yes, we will continue to reinforce ourselves as alpha.

[rebel bunny's]

i'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

 

we encounter all kinds of wild life while we are "digging" around in the woods looking for caches, last weekend, it was three terriers and two black labs, all off leash, our littlest bunny had found a tennis ball while we were hunting for a cache, in another part of the park and gave it to the owners for the dogs.

 

we spent a good half hour standing on a bridge, watching them fetch it from the river, they even had our bunnys throwing it for them.

 

if i can work out the pics thing i'll post some.

 

 

so not all people are like that

Edited October 19, 2006 by rebel bunny's

[Team JKKnK]

It's a fact that even "intelligent" breeds require a good amount of training, and usually considerable amounts of training. I find that most people don't actively and properly train their dogs, or that they spend time training the wrong way.

 

That said, there are large number os breeds that are difficult to control reasonably. Those dogs have high energy, and strong urges to play. These require much more effort to train. You can never train a dog to be 100% reliable, even though I've seen some that appear that way. They do have their own wills, and under some circumstances will submit to those wills over their owners wills.

 

That said, if the park was VERY well marked, then the cachers shoudl have expected to be on their guard for dogs approaching them. If the park was not VERY well marked, then it should be.

 

A dog jumping on a person is to be expected, if the dog has not been properly trained for being off the leash. It doesn't matter if the dog was being friendly or not. I would not appreciate ANY dog jumping on me without me asking it to.

 

My in-laws got a dog 2 years ago that grew up to be a large Rott/Lab/whatever. When it was young, but still large, it had a habit of jumping and bumping and slobbering. My father-in-law said "He just likes to jump on you." as if there was nothing he could do about it. I told him to stick his knee out and when the dog bumps into it, he will not like it. He seemed skeptical, but after about 3 more jumps with me sticking my knee out, Jackson stopped jumping on me. He did not stop jumping on others, though, because I was the only one he would get a knee for it. After that, they started using that technique and the dog rarely jumps at all now.

 

The knee is a great training method, as long as it isn't hard enough to injure. The dog will most likely not like the feeling of a knee to the chest, even if it isn't enough to hurt. After a very short time, they just seem to stop.

 

I agree with the crouching as signalling playtime for a dog. It was an unfortunate incident, but it sounded like the people were suprised enough that getting up to prevent the action was not possible. Any dog, even in a dog park, should be controlled to the extend expected. Jumping on someone crouching would certainly fall in to the "expected" category, in my mind. That is playing, and that is what the park is for.

 

So, the problem in my mind is that these people went to a Dog Park, not knowing that it was a Dog Park, and did not know what to do. If they wanted to pursue any legal actions, they would have to prove that there was some form of injury, either physical, or emotional, and that they were not properly forewarned.

 

To prevent this kind of thing from happening again, I recommend making sure the park is WELL marked, and that the cache hider inform people of the dog park on the cache page. In addition, the practice of identifying a cache with the defacto Geocaching informational note is recommended and normally adhered to, so that someone happening to come across it will know what it is.

[Team JKKnK]

Oh, and welcome to the geocaching site! I hope you consider trying it out. I feel bad that you had to be introduced to the hobby/sport in such a manner.

[+cimawr]

 

I know I can be rather offputting with some of my comments. Sometimes, that's okay, but I don't generally have that as a goal.

 

Likewise, although more often when I'm posting on USENET dog forums or Jack Russell lists.

 

 

Funnily enough, I'm actually getting something of a workout on the weekends, since I started geocaching. And it is helping. It's a long walk with a goal in mind. And since we seem to be doing terrain 3 hikes, it's definitely a workout.

 

Yup! Even though we were reasonably fit to begin with, both the dogs and I are in better shape since beginning to "cache", mostly from doing parks caches with tougher terrain. However, I am NOT (and never will be again) in the shape I was when I was able to practice judo 2-3 times a week.

 

Now that is an amazingly useful training tip, and one I would have loved to known for longer than 5 minutes. Thank you! That will be used on our next puppy, definitely.

 

The toughest part of the technique is getting OTHER people to comply with it; too many will go "Oh, that's OK!" or pet when the pup is jumping.

 

Hey, you're down there? That's only about a 2 hour drive for me, and I've got another friend in the area. He also happens to be a cacher. Maybe we should try and get all four of us together for a day (including my wife, who is loving caching!), just to hang out a bit. His member name is mykaen. What do you think? Shall we try for it?

 

I live in Baltimore County; my S.O. lives in Cecil, so I'm up there 1-4 days a week. He's also a cacher (got me into it a week or so after he started)... let me run the idea by him. Not that I couldn't or wouldn't do it on my own, but he might like to be included.

Edited October 19, 2006 by cimawr