Ultimate Tool (for caching+)

October 8, 2006

I only recently upgraded to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx and though it is a nice improvement over the 12XL I'd been using for nearly 8 years it isn't the perfect solution.

About the same time I got the 60CSx I also splurged for an Apple iPod 30GB (black) and it to is great but also less than perfect.

I also have a PSD (portable storage device) I use to store pictures from my digital cameras and it has an 80GB HD but no sound or video capabilites either.

For mapping pruposses I have a couple laptop and desktop PC's that have great displays but are not exactly hiker portable. I use one of the laptops along with the 60CSx while driving and in combination with Delorme Street Atlas it works very well in this application, but, once again, it's not field portable.

Lastly, like most of us I also have a cell phone and in my case it's a Motorola Razor as my previous one was stolen a couple months back.

So, putting it all together here's what I want:

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

6. Cell phone features

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

OK, I've created my wishlist, now who wants to add/subtract from it or otherwise comment?

Brian

1.6k · October 8, 2006

You forgot the flashlight!

Sissy

1.1k · October 8, 2006

I'd be happy with

large color screen

7 mp digital camera

GPSr built in

cell internet, or sat internet

web browser

I think that'd be enough. <_<

9.5k · October 8, 2006

I only recently upgraded to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx and though it is a nice improvement over the 12XL I'd been using for nearly 8 years it isn't the perfect solution.

About the same time I got the 60CSx I also splurged for an Apple iPod 30GB (black) and it to is great but also less than perfect.

I also have a PSD (portable storage device) I use to store pictures from my digital cameras and it has an 80GB HD but no sound or video capabilites either.

For mapping pruposses I have a couple laptop and desktop PC's that have great displays but are not exactly hiker portable. I use one of the laptops along with the 60CSx while driving and in combination with Delorme Street Atlas it works very well in this application, but, once again, it's not field portable.

Lastly, like most of us I also have a cell phone and in my case it's a Motorola Razor as my previous one was stolen a couple months back.

So, putting it all together here's what I want:

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

6. Cell phone features

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

OK, I've created my wishlist, now who wants to add/subtract from it or otherwise comment?

Brian

Six pounds is awfully heavy for a GPS doncha think? <_<

2.1k · October 8, 2006

You also forgot the toilet paper dispenser.

October 8, 2006

I only recently upgraded to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx and though it is a nice improvement over the 12XL I'd been using for nearly 8 years it isn't the perfect solution.

About the same time I got the 60CSx I also splurged for an Apple iPod 30GB (black) and it to is great but also less than perfect.

I also have a PSD (portable storage device) I use to store pictures from my digital cameras and it has an 80GB HD but no sound or video capabilites either.

For mapping pruposses I have a couple laptop and desktop PC's that have great displays but are not exactly hiker portable. I use one of the laptops along with the 60CSx while driving and in combination with Delorme Street Atlas it works very well in this application, but, once again, it's not field portable.

Lastly, like most of us I also have a cell phone and in my case it's a Motorola Razor as my previous one was stolen a couple months back.

So, putting it all together here's what I want:

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

6. Cell phone features

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

OK, I've created my wishlist, now who wants to add/subtract from it or otherwise comment?

Brian

Six pounds is awfully heavy for a GPS doncha think?

Why six pounds? I've worked in the semiconductor manufacturing industry for over 20 years and they are pretty good at putting everything into a single chip or a small number of chips. Of course to do so would require a minimum market to make the design and engineering effort worth it but if enough of us ask for it they will provide.

I should also mention that I moved (copied actually) this thread to the "GPS Units and Software" page as that's probably a better place for this...

Brian

October 8, 2006

. . . and all that for under $200 please!

3.9k · October 8, 2006

I should also mention that I moved (copied actually) this thread to the "GPS Units and Software" page as that's probably a better place for this...

Brian

Just as a FYI. The Moderaters frown on you for posting the same topic in multiple threads. <_<

El Diablo

October 8, 2006

. . . and all that for under $200 please!

Not likely! If someone is thinking about doing the design and engineering and then the tooling to manufacture something like this then they're not going to plan on losing money.

If you look at the products I mentioned that are similar (GPSr, PDA/Handheld PC, PSD, iPod, etc.) then figure on spending more than any of those items. How about $750-$995 for starters and after a time when volume increases I could see a line of such products with differnt HD sizes and features beginning at about $495 and going up to, perhaps, $795 for the most capable unit.

Brian

October 8, 2006

I should also mention that I moved (copied actually) this thread to the "GPS Units and Software" page as that's probably a better place for this...

Brian

Just as a FYI. The Moderaters frown on you for posting the same topic in multiple threads.

El Diablo

Yeah, I erred by starting this thread here so if the moderators wish to kill this here then fine. My bad...

Brian

October 8, 2006

I only recently upgraded to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx and though it is a nice improvement over the 12XL I'd been using for nearly 8 years it isn't the perfect solution.

About the same time I got the 60CSx I also splurged for an Apple iPod 30GB (black) and it to is great but also less than perfect.

I also have a PSD (portable storage device) I use to store pictures from my digital cameras and it has an 80GB HD but no sound or video capabilites either.

For mapping pruposses I have a couple laptop and desktop PC's that have great displays but are not exactly hiker portable. I use one of the laptops along with the 60CSx while driving and in combination with Delorme Street Atlas it works very well in this application, but, once again, it's not field portable.

Lastly, like most of us I also have a cell phone and in my case it's a Motorola Razor as my previous one was stolen a couple months back.

So, putting it all together here's what I want:

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

6. Cell phone features

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

OK, I've created my wishlist, now who wants to add/subtract from it or otherwise comment?

Brian

That.is.so.cool. :anibad:

October 9, 2006

i would want a lightsabre with it. i am not buying it when there is no lightsabre!!!

October 9, 2006

you have to add a swiss army knife in the line up ,and maybe a fire starter just in case :anibad: i don'nt go in the woods without a knife

Edited October 9, 2006 by vortexecho

1.9k · October 9, 2006

The camera has to have interchangable lenses for me to buy it!

October 9, 2006

I only recently upgraded to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx and though it is a nice improvement over the 12XL I'd been using for nearly 8 years it isn't the perfect solution.

About the same time I got the 60CSx I also splurged for an Apple iPod 30GB (black) and it to is great but also less than perfect.

I also have a PSD (portable storage device) I use to store pictures from my digital cameras and it has an 80GB HD but no sound or video capabilites either.

For mapping pruposses I have a couple laptop and desktop PC's that have great displays but are not exactly hiker portable. I use one of the laptops along with the 60CSx while driving and in combination with Delorme Street Atlas it works very well in this application, but, once again, it's not field portable.

Lastly, like most of us I also have a cell phone and in my case it's a Motorola Razor as my previous one was stolen a couple months back.

So, putting it all together here's what I want:

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

6. Cell phone features

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

OK, I've created my wishlist, now who wants to add/subtract from it or otherwise comment?

Brian

13. A pony!

18.9k · October 9, 2006

Don't forget it has to pass military specs for dust/dirt/waterproofness to 1 meter - floatable etc...... or I'm not taking it out on the trail.

October 9, 2006

And if you drop it and it breaks.....

October 9, 2006

...I'm sorry, but you can't borrow mine.

October 10, 2006

OK, asside from the obvious fact that most here discount the possibility that such a device is even possible I'd like to know if such a device were made available would it interest you. What would you want it to have and would you not want it to have.

Generally, when things like this are developed it's done in stages with the first stage having far fewer of the features then the later versions. So, if I were to go through the list of items I detailed a few days ago I might subtract the HDTV features and perhaps the digital camera feature in the first version but would expect to add them, and perhaps some other things, after a market has developed.

At present we are left with the hodge-podge of devices that individually have most of these items in several seperate devices. Cell phones, for example, have had digital cameras for a number of years and some now also do video. In addition, many cell phones have some form of GPS built in and a crude PDA capability. And, that's really my point -- you can integrate lots of things into a single device -- if there's a market for someone will develope it! If we start with the high end cell phone what's missing from it to get to where I'm thinking...

* Larger high resolution LCD screen

* 100GB HD

* Greater handheld PC functionality

* HDTV capabilities

Current high end cell phone already have most of the other things including: Bluetooth and MP3 in addition to the other things aready mentioned.

The iPod has the HD and good quality audio already and the later ones also do video and can act as a PSD to store things like digital pictures from your camera. At pressent the iPod is a bit smaller than needed for the items I mentioned and the display just doesn't cut it in my view. Also, as a PSD the iPod is just about the worst at transfer speeds and it can't display RAW files at all. I similar device with the larger higher resolution display and handheld PC functionality would get around those limitations.

Some of the better PSD's have larger and higher resolution displays and can display many of the RAW formats so it clearly is possible to do so. The top Epson models are pretty nice but they don't have the other functionality that cell phones have.

So, although it is appearant that many here don't think the device I detailed is possible I can assure you that you would be wrong. If you take the functionality that the cell phones, iPods, PSD's, handheld PC's and GPSr's already have and design a device that combines most of the features into a single unit you're not really required to conjure up anything that hasn't already been done -- mearly putting it all together into a single, well integrated package.

The only question is -- would you want one if it were available.

Brian

October 10, 2006

The only question is -- would you want one if it were available.

NOT without the lightsabre..

get real, everyone wants WHAT THEY WANT, no matter what marketing departments think WHAT ONE WANTS..

9.5k · October 11, 2006

I only recently upgraded to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx and though it is a nice improvement over the 12XL I'd been using for nearly 8 years it isn't the perfect solution.

About the same time I got the 60CSx I also splurged for an Apple iPod 30GB (black) and it to is great but also less than perfect.

I also have a PSD (portable storage device) I use to store pictures from my digital cameras and it has an 80GB HD but no sound or video capabilites either.

For mapping pruposses I have a couple laptop and desktop PC's that have great displays but are not exactly hiker portable. I use one of the laptops along with the 60CSx while driving and in combination with Delorme Street Atlas it works very well in this application, but, once again, it's not field portable.

Lastly, like most of us I also have a cell phone and in my case it's a Motorola Razor as my previous one was stolen a couple months back.

So, putting it all together here's what I want:

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

6. Cell phone features

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

OK, I've created my wishlist, now who wants to add/subtract from it or otherwise comment?

Brian

Six pounds is awfully heavy for a GPS doncha think?

Why six pounds? I've worked in the semiconductor manufacturing industry for over 20 years and they are pretty good at putting everything into a single chip or a small number of chips. Of course to do so would require a minimum market to make the design and engineering effort worth it but if enough of us ask for it they will provide.

I should also mention that I moved (copied actually) this thread to the "GPS Units and Software" page as that's probably a better place for this...

Brian

It was tongue in cheek but since you asked...

It's still tongue in cheek.

At minimum, it's still a couple of pounds with today's commercial miniaturization and technology. That's still too heavy for a GPS.

I'll also add that what you're looking for currently runs ~$2000 for a Pocket sized PC with an 80GB drive.

Edited October 11, 2006 by TotemLake

October 11, 2006

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

Brian

You are already out of date, why swap out batteries when you can go solar.

Look at this little gps.

http://www.qstarz.com/products/bt-q815.aspx

Oh well, solar or no solar I'll buy one. What was that release date?

October 12, 2006

It was tongue in cheek but since you asked...

It's still tongue in cheek.

At minimum, it's still a couple of pounds with today's commercial miniaturization and technology. That's still too heavy for a GPS.

I'll also add that what you're looking for currently runs ~$2000 for a Pocket sized PC with an 80GB drive.

Well I can see you haven't done much comparison with what IS available so let me fill you in...

Two product that have much of what I detailed are the iPAQ HX2795 and the Palm TX handheld PDA/PC's. Both have relatively larger displays (about 3.5 inch) and both have the processing power to do all or nearly all of what I specified and both weight less then half a pound (6 ounces)! The device I listed would be a bit larger and would include a HD so I'd put the weight at about 12 ounces or less -- or a bit more than a third of your last guestimate and an eigth of your first. A couple more guesses and you might be in the ballpark. Oh yeah, the price for these units is about $300-500 (USA). So, adding the HD and cell phone functions might double the price to the $600-1000 price and my best estimate, provided the first units come with ALL the feature I detailed, would be about $850 or so.

Brian

2k · October 12, 2006

Someone once said something about eggs and a basket.

9.5k · October 12, 2006

It was tongue in cheek but since you asked...

It's still tongue in cheek.

At minimum, it's still a couple of pounds with today's commercial miniaturization and technology. That's still too heavy for a GPS.

I'll also add that what you're looking for currently runs ~$2000 for a Pocket sized PC with an 80GB drive.

Well I can see you haven't done much comparison with what IS available so let me fill you in...

Two product that have much of what I detailed are the iPAQ HX2795 and the Palm TX handheld PDA/PC's. Both have relatively larger displays (about 3.5 inch) and both have the processing power to do all or nearly all of what I specified and both weight less then half a pound (6 ounces)! The device I listed would be a bit larger and would include a HD so I'd put the weight at about 12 ounces or less -- or a bit more than a third of your last guestimate and an eigth of your first. A couple more guesses and you might be in the ballpark. Oh yeah, the price for these units is about $300-500 (USA). So, adding the HD and cell phone functions might double the price to the $600-1000 price and my best estimate, provided the first units come with ALL the feature I detailed, would be about $850 or so.

Brian

Wiggle your ears with your toes. I've been looking into these kinds of products for other reasons for much longer than your wish list.

http://www.dualcor.com/index.php as noted here. This particular hybrid device goes for about $1500 and it does not have the GPS built into it. It comes with a 30GB driveand 1GB DDR2 RAM for the PC side and 1GB Flash Memory storage for the PDA side. This brick weighs in at 1.2 lbs.

There is also a product called OQO that is a pocket sized PC with a 20GB drive and 256MB RAM, with no GPS with a starting cost of $1900 if you want the XP Tablet Edition. That gives you touch screen capability. This does weigh in at 14 ounces, but it's capability is limited for some of the programs you would want to load.

So... I think I've done my homework.

Edited to correct the second product name and added a bit more description.

Edited October 12, 2006 by TotemLake

20.7k · October 12, 2006

I hate combo devices. I'd be tickled with a GPS VI. Just a V with a color screen, increased memory, and talky cradle and I'm set.

5.6k · October 12, 2006

No thanks. If one compontent has a problem you are out of everything. A while back I cracked the screen on my camera, two months to have it repaired - but during that time I had use of my GPSr, PDA and laptop. The rest of your wish list I'm not interested in carrying while caching - when was the last time I wanted to watch a movie/video while caching... And please, no external sound capabilities, I like my music not yours.

October 12, 2006

Wiggle your ears with your toes. I've been looking into these kinds of products for other reasons for much longer than your wish list.

http://www.dualcor.com/index.php as noted here. This particular hybrid device goes for about $1500 and it does not have the GPS built into it. It comes with a 30GB driveand 1GB DDR2 RAM for the PC side and 1GB Flash Memory storage for the PDA side. This brick weighs in at 1.2 lbs.

There is also a product called OQO that is a pocket sized PC with a 20GB drive and 256MB RAM, with no GPS with a starting cost of $1900 if you want the XP Tablet Edition. That gives you touch screen capability. This does weigh in at 14 ounces, but it's capability is limited for some of the programs you would want to load.

So... I think I've done my homework.

Edited to correct the second product name and added a bit more description.

A couple of good pointers here...

Of the two the OQO is closer to the package size I was looking for and at 14 ounces is very close to the 12 ounces I'd estimate.

So, if you had these references handy why did you 'estimate' 6 pounds on your first go then 2 on your second?

I don't think one needs a full on XP/Vista/OS10 based handheld for my application and the already avialable products from Palm and HP have suffieient horsepower to do most of what I would want. In fact, XP/Vista/OS10 are kind of the Swiss Army Knife OS's and Lynux is a closser match to the functionality needed though the Palm OS and handhelp PC OS is even closer to the mark.

As the feature size for the chips goes down so does the power requirement for a given level of processing power. Intels latest uP's are at 65nm feature size and they have a definate path down to 30nm using immersion lithography. The dual core uP's are nearly twice as powerful as there predacessors and require about half the power! A device such as I've detailed could well be integrated into a single chip with perhaps another chip for RF functions. As I look a couple years down the road there is no reason to doubt that a handheld device could have more power than todays desktop PC's and still run on a small battery pack. You don't need the power of todays PC's to do what I want.

Most of the items on my list are already integrated into the latest generation cell phones so adding the additional features I listed would only require the addition of: HD (1.8" at <2 ounces), larger display and battery (perhaps 3-4 ounces).

A few here have also mentioned that they don't want all the eggs in one basket -- fair point -- but wait a second. If you want a cell phone and mp3 player and gps and pda you could do that with four seperate devices or a single one -- the modern cell phone. It doesn't look like the folks buying such cell phones are too terribly put off by the fact that they are all integrated into a single device. In addition to reducing the weight by putting all these things into a single device you ADD capabilities you can't do so easily with seperate devices. Say you're out caching and you have your new multifunction device with you. You follow the moving map display (topo map etc.) to the cache without having to consult with paper maps or secondary pda's or fumble arround with the wires to connect your pda to your gpsr. Need that tip -- no problem, just call it up on the screen.

Brian

October 12, 2006

... And please, no external sound capabilities, I like my music not yours.

No problem -- I won't listen to your music.

I'm not sure how being able to output the music (and/or video) requires that you do so to the inconvience of others...

Current iPods can interface with the car stereo -- does that offend you? Surely there are idiots that blast their music and you can here them coming from a mile away, but that doesn't mean you or I are required to do so!

Brian

9.5k · October 12, 2006

Wiggle your ears with your toes. I've been looking into these kinds of products for other reasons for much longer than your wish list.

http://www.dualcor.com/index.php as noted here. This particular hybrid device goes for about $1500 and it does not have the GPS built into it. It comes with a 30GB driveand 1GB DDR2 RAM for the PC side and 1GB Flash Memory storage for the PDA side. This brick weighs in at 1.2 lbs.

There is also a product called OQO that is a pocket sized PC with a 20GB drive and 256MB RAM, with no GPS with a starting cost of $1900 if you want the XP Tablet Edition. That gives you touch screen capability. This does weigh in at 14 ounces, but it's capability is limited for some of the programs you would want to load.

So... I think I've done my homework.

Edited to correct the second product name and added a bit more description.

So, if you had these references handy why did you 'estimate' 6 pounds on your first go then 2 on your second?

You might want to take a new look at my first posts. The first one had a winky in there... My second post explained it was tongue in cheek with a smilie in it. The 6 lbs btw, was in reference to a laptop. You're taking yourself too seriously to see the humor. (I hate having to explain an obvious one liner - geez)

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

and

Greater handheld PC functionality

Two pounds for everything you asked for based on current technology is the correct target. The OQO is old technology, limited in speed, disk size (20GB is too small by your wishlist) and memory (XP uses 192MB to be efficient). It also received poor reviews as too little too late. You listed out PDA benefits as part of your wishlist so the OQO really doesn't match yor wishlist quite as well as as the Dualcor. Add the weight of the extras in the components you're looking for and 2 pounds gets closer to the truth; the Dualcor is 1.2 lbs and gets closer to your wishlist target and is also better bang for the buck over the OQO.

As to why I didn't list them out previously? It took 30 seconds to google it. I figured you to be a smart guy to figure out something similar already exists.

I've worked in the semiconductor manufacturing industry for over 20 years and they are pretty good at putting everything into a single chip or a small number of chips

Or maybe... I was just being a wiseguy based on your superiority crack at my guesses versus your guesses.

Well I can see you haven't done much comparison with what IS available so let me fill you in...

Btw, there were no guesses in my responses. All my answers were correct. 6 lbs is a laptop. I had to dust off old memories on the 2nd response of 2 lbs. And the pricing was dead on. By the way Microsoft had made a big fuss last spring on the Dualcor. I'm surprised you missed it.

Edited October 12, 2006 by TotemLake

October 12, 2006

Wiggle your ears with your toes. I've been looking into these kinds of products for other reasons for much longer than your wish list.

http://www.dualcor.com/index.php as noted here. This particular hybrid device goes for about $1500 and it does not have the GPS built into it. It comes with a 30GB driveand 1GB DDR2 RAM for the PC side and 1GB Flash Memory storage for the PDA side. This brick weighs in at 1.2 lbs.

There is also a product called OQO that is a pocket sized PC with a 20GB drive and 256MB RAM, with no GPS with a starting cost of $1900 if you want the XP Tablet Edition. That gives you touch screen capability. This does weigh in at 14 ounces, but it's capability is limited for some of the programs you would want to load.

So... I think I've done my homework.

Edited to correct the second product name and added a bit more description.

So, if you had these references handy why did you 'estimate' 6 pounds on your first go then 2 on your second?

You might want to take a new look at my first posts. The first one had a winky in there... My second post explained it was tongue in cheek with a smilie in it. The 6 lbs btw, was in reference to a laptop. You're taking yourself too seriously to see the humor. (I hate having to explain an obvious one liner - geez)

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that
and

Greater handheld PC functionality

Two pounds for everything you asked for based on current technology is the correct target. The OQO is old technology, limited in speed, disk size (20GB is too small by your wishlist) and memory (XP uses 192MB to be efficient). It also received poor reviews as too little too late. You listed out PDA benefits as part of your wishlist so the OQO really doesn't match yor wishlist quite as well as as the Dualcor. Add the weight of the extras in the components you're looking for and 2 pounds gets closer to the truth; the Dualcor is 1.2 lbs and gets closer to your wishlist target and is also better bang for the buck over the OQO.

As to why I didn't list them out previously? It took 30 seconds to google it. I figured you to be a smart guy to figure out something similar already exists.

I've worked in the semiconductor manufacturing industry for over 20 years and they are pretty good at putting everything into a single chip or a small number of chips

Or maybe... I was just being a wiseguy based on your superiority crack at my guesses versus your guesses.

Well I can see you haven't done much comparison with what IS available so let me fill you in...

Btw, there were no guesses in my respons = es. All my answers were correct. 6 lbs is a laptop. I had to dust off old memories on the 2nd response of 2 lbs. And the pricing was dead on. By the way Microsoft had made a big fuss last spring on the Dualcor. I'm surprised you missed it.

Jeez, where do I start...

At no time did I indicate the device should be a laptop -- that should be obvious enough as the laptop has already been invented so the reference to 6 pounds was NEVER correct.

Two pounds becoase you have to add the other features and they will add weight? OK, if you add features you MAY add weight but why is the necessary? But even if it is let's add it up?

Cell phone: 3.5 ounces (Motorola V3i)

GPSr : 2.6 ounces (Garmin Foretrex 101)

PDA : 5.8 ounces (HP iPAQ HX2795 Pocket PC)

PSD : 10.5 ounces (Creative Zen Vision w/60GB HD and 4.3 inch LCD)

Adding that all up as SEPERATE devices we get 22.5 ounces or about 1.4 pounds. I should point out that the Creative device is larger and heavier than needed as it uses a 2.5 inch HD and not the smaller and lighter 1.8 inch HD. So, at worst we're looking at 1.4 pounds.

But, why do you have to add the weights this way? If you recognize that there is no need to have 4 batteries and 4 cases and 4 displays etc. Forgive me if I come off superior here but I'm mearly chalenging the comments you made in error. The modern cell phone with camera, pda and mp3 features in addition to the rf/phone functions isn't any heavier than the past phones because the features were added -- they mearly upgraded the processing power of the uP, at no additional weight, and provided the software/firmware to run them, again, at no additional weight.

Here's how I see it:

Start with the lergest device, the Creative Zen Vision that has a 60GB HD and 4.3 inch LCD display. We have a display that's pretty close to what I spec'd and also does audio and video with outputs for same. Replace the uP controlling it with a more capable one that can do all the other things needed -- additional weight is zero. Add the RF functions needed for the cell phone and wifi feature -- about 1 ounce or less. Add the gps funtion -- well that already covered with the cell phone addition but call it an ounce just for s&g's. Add the PDA/handheld PC -- again, the more capable uP is all that's needed and that does cost anything in weight. Total weight = 12.5 ounces!

What part of this don't you understand?

Brian

9.5k · October 12, 2006

edited

You still don't get it. I got all that and more. You missed the point of the humor and that part you obviously don't want to get.

So 1.4 lbs isn't close enough to 2 lbs for you. It is more than a mere 12 ounces, but that's pushing shot glasses back and forth. That's ok too. Like I said, it was a dusty memory but it still was a more accurate target than your 12 ounces.

Cheers! Here's hoping you find yourself lightening up soon.

2.1k · October 12, 2006

Someone once said something about eggs and a basket.

Very, very true.

24.7k · October 12, 2006

OK, asside from the obvious fact that most here discount the possibility that such a device is even possible I'd like to know if such a device were made available would it interest you. ...Brian

Check out the threads on the GPS VI.

Your device does too much. But does have a lot of what the GPS VI would need to replace the V and have enough of a market.

1.9k · October 13, 2006

This is only semi related, but what kind of camera do you have?

October 14, 2006

edited

You still don't get it. I got all that and more. You missed the point of the humor and that part you obviously don't want to get.

So 1.4 lbs isn't close enough to 2 lbs for you. It is more than a mere 12 ounces, but that's pushing shot glasses back and forth. That's ok too. Like I said, it was a dusty memory but it still was a more accurate target than your 12 ounces.

Cheers! Here's hoping you find yourself lightening up soon.

I've made the case for 12 ounces and haven't had to change my guestimation three times in doing so. A device such as I detailed would weigh about 12 ounces -- not 1.4 pounds, not 2 pounds and not 6 pounds! You refuse to accept that FACT that adding the features of a cell phone does not require adding a cell phone -- just the features! You've not mentioned my observation that adding the features of these seperate devices does not require having 4 cases, 4 batteries, 4 displays, etc. You make snide comments about my 'superiority' but fail to chalenge the fact that integrating more features into silicon doesn't require REQUIRE additional weight or battery consumption. You site a number of examples (6 pound laptop) that imply you're a smart guy but the examples you site argue against that assumption. The average laptop may well be about 6 pounds but there are versions larger and smaller (<4.3 pounds). But, once again, the laptop was never the point of comparison I was using so why you chose to pick it is anyones guess.

We've hastled over this point for the better part of a week and you hide your refusal to accept your errors with a pretend smilly face -- you we're not joking and everything you have said since confirms that fact. You implore me to 'lighten up' while at the same time continuing to argue, in error, "... So 1.4 lbs isn't close enough to 2 lbs for you. It is more than a mere 12 ounces..." I can take a joke as well as anyone but I can also see when a joke isn't a joke.

But, just in case anyone else is reading along and is still here let me give you a few examples where such a device might even save a life:

* You're hiking along and you come upon a snake you're not familiar with, perhaps you're bitten by it, what do you do? Well you might look up snakes in the encylopedia and efter a minute or two you match it with a picture and discover its poisonous. You contact 911 or similar, give them your lat/lon/alt and within 25 minutes a helicopter picks you up and delivers you to the hospital BEFORE you die. The emergency staff knows what snake it was because you identified it with the encyclopedia and you took a picture of it with your digital camera, and they are able to give you the correct anti-venom.

* You're a ranger and have been told of an emergency. You look at your device and are able to see both your possition and that of the emergency and are able to determine the quickest route to get there.

* You're a the leader of a Boy Scout Troup and one of your kids is missing. You contact him and determine his location because he has the device and you are again able to plot the quickest route to rescue him.

Brian

October 14, 2006

This is only semi related, but what kind of camera do you have?

Well I have several cameras. I've had a Yashica and a Minolta Maxxum 7000. I still own a Nikon F100 and D100, but a few years ago I switched to Canon and have a 1D Mark II and a 1Ds Mark II DSLR. Of course I also have a collection of lenses (24-70mm f/2.8L, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS, 28-135mm IS, 50mm f/1.4, 100mm f/2.8 macro, 300mm f/4L IS).

I got my first digital camera, a Kodak DC210, in 1998 and a year later upgraded to the DC290. The 210 was more of a toy but the 290 was pretty good and openned my eyes to the possibillities of digital. In 2002 I got my first DSLR when the Nikon D100 came out. I was a great camera and relagated my F100 to the shelf. In 2004 I travelled across the western USA and had switched to Canon. At present I've shot about 20,000 pictures with the D100 and about the same with my 1Ds Mark II. As a PSD I've had a 20GB Nixvue Digital Album and when the battery began to act up I replaced it with an 80GB PD70X.

Brian

1.9k · October 15, 2006

I have a D70 and 28-70 f2.8 Tokina, 70-210 f2.8 Tamron, 50 f1.8 AF-D Nikkor, 19-35 f3.5-4.5 Tamron, and a 70-300 Sigma. I also have a N80. My avatar is me with my D70 and 50 f1.8. That's some nice equipment and lenses there! I frequent the Pop Photo.com forums, and I am the staff sports photographer for my university's student newspaper. If I were to upgrade my film body, I would probably get an F100. I also have my own darkroom at home. My first SLR was a Minolta XD-11 (sold). I still own a X-700 and a X-570. Both sit on the shelf, though.

October 15, 2006

I have a D70 and 28-70 f2.8 Tokina, 70-210 f2.8 Tamron, 50 f1.8 AF-D Nikkor, 19-35 f3.5-4.5 Tamron, and a 70-300 Sigma. I also have a N80. My avatar is me with my D70 and 50 f1.8. That's some nice equipment and lenses there! I frequent the Pop Photo.com forums, and I am the staff sports photographer for my university's student newspaper. If I were to upgrade my film body, I would probably get an F100. I also have my own darkroom at home. My first SLR was a Minolta XD-11 (sold). I still own a X-700 and a X-570. Both sit on the shelf, though.

The D70 is a nice DSLR and it's a kind of cross over camera in as much as DSLR's of 6MP have pretty much equalled the best the 35mm color film can do (35mm B&W has been eclipsed by 12MP DSLR's). For sports there's no way film can hang with digital as you can bump the speed ISO800 or more and still get pretty clean images. When I was travelling across the western USA I had the F100 and D100 for about half the trip and then switched to Canon when the 1Ds Mark II came out as I do mostly landscape photography and the 16.6MP FF 1DsM2 is unbeatable for landscape until you go to the larger medium format film cameras. In fact, if you have a good day you can shoot many overlapping pictures then stitch them together on the PC to get as high a resolution as needed. I have a few images in the 200MP+ range and that's right at the 8x10 film range for resolution.

Just remember when you're shooting the football game to keep the camera pointed at the players and not the cheerleaders! :laughing:

Brian

1.9k · October 16, 2006

I have a D70 and 28-70 f2.8 Tokina, 70-210 f2.8 Tamron, 50 f1.8 AF-D Nikkor, 19-35 f3.5-4.5 Tamron, and a 70-300 Sigma. I also have a N80. My avatar is me with my D70 and 50 f1.8. That's some nice equipment and lenses there! I frequent the Pop Photo.com forums, and I am the staff sports photographer for my university's student newspaper. If I were to upgrade my film body, I would probably get an F100. I also have my own darkroom at home. My first SLR was a Minolta XD-11 (sold). I still own a X-700 and a X-570. Both sit on the shelf, though.

The D70 is a nice DSLR and it's a kind of cross over camera in as much as DSLR's of 6MP have pretty much equalled the best the 35mm color film can do (35mm B&W has been eclipsed by 12MP DSLR's). For sports there's no way film can hang with digital as you can bump the speed ISO800 or more and still get pretty clean images. When I was travelling across the western USA I had the F100 and D100 for about half the trip and then switched to Canon when the 1Ds Mark II came out as I do mostly landscape photography and the 16.6MP FF 1DsM2 is unbeatable for landscape until you go to the larger medium format film cameras. In fact, if you have a good day you can shoot many overlapping pictures then stitch them together on the PC to get as high a resolution as needed. I have a few images in the 200MP+ range and that's right at the 8x10 film range for resolution.

Just remember when you're shooting the football game to keep the camera pointed at the players and not the cheerleaders!

Brian

Yeah, I know a lot about trying to do sports with film, as I used my XD-11 while I was the team photographer for my High School's girls Basketball team. Then I was using Delta 3200, with a old 200 f3.5 Tamron. In our home gym, I could only get a reading of 1/125 at f3.5 :laughing: The light was not great in that gym. I do wish the D70 went to 3200. I had to watch my film consumption, too. I do get a lot of friends trying to get me to take photos of them but I usually tell them no. I was talking to a photographer from the Yakima newspaper yesterday at the football game and he had a 1Ds Mark II with a 400 f2.8 IS and a 5D with a 100 f2. He had a 70-200f2.8 IS in his bag, and possibly a 50 f1.4 or 1.8.

5.6k · October 16, 2006

* You're hiking along and you come upon a snake you're not familiar with, perhaps you're bitten by it, what do you do? Well you might look up snakes in the encylopedia and efter a minute or two you match it with a picture and discover its poisonous. You contact 911 or similar, give them your lat/lon/alt and within 25 minutes a helicopter picks you up and delivers you to the hospital BEFORE you die. The emergency staff knows what snake it was because you identified it with the encyclopedia and you took a picture of it with your digital camera, and they are able to give you the correct anti-venom.

* You're a ranger and have been told of an emergency. You look at your device and are able to see both your possition and that of the emergency and are able to determine the quickest route to get there.

* You're a the leader of a Boy Scout Troup and one of your kids is missing. You contact him and determine his location because he has the device and you are again able to plot the quickest route to rescue him.

1. If you are out in the backcountry depending on a piece of electronics to save your life, frankly you're stupid. In SAR they have name for people like that - dead. There are too many people heading out into the backcountry with the idea that they can always call for help on their cell phone. Well, sorry to say that doesn't always work. Most of the backcountry isn't covered by cell networks. I've stood on top of Mount Rainier, with full view of Seattle & Tacoma and not gotten a signal. Electronic devices are fragail, run on batteries that can become depleated, or lack signal need.

Also, most people in such a situation aren't going to be nicely calm, and sit down and do an internet search. A more likely scenerio is they go to pull out the miracle device is such a hurry they drop and break it.

2. Gee, how have the rangers gotten along without this device so far? See the above response.

3. I'm sure every Boy Scout is going to be able to afford (by your estimates) a 500 to 800 dollar device. And what if he is hurt and can't answer the call? Dependency on electronics is not the way to go.

The above opinions have been formed over the last 40+ years of hiking the backcountry, being a First Aid instructor, and a climbing instructor.

October 16, 2006

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

Got it

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

Got it

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

Don't got it, but will 2gb do?

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

Got it...maybe not to that degree, but...

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

Don't got it.

6. Cell phone features

Got it

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

Could have it, not with Baro, but...

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

Got it...

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

1 MP, w/ 2x zoom, but...

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

Don't got WiFi, but Bluetooth

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

Not even close....but what about movies?

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

Got it...I think...

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

Got it..

Palm Treo 650. PDA, Cell phone, Web, Bluetooth (w/ optional Bluetooth GPSr), Full color display, 2GB SD card, Full Querty Keyboard, MP3 Capability, high quality sound....

My last toy before having a baby...I use web for paperless. The GPS, I have, but not often, and it conflicts with the Paperless cacheing, so I use my Rino110 for that.

--MGB

Edit: Messed up the quotes..

Edited October 16, 2006 by mgbmusic

October 16, 2006

* You're hiking along and you come upon a snake you're not familiar with, perhaps you're bitten by it, what do you do? Well you might look up snakes in the encylopedia and efter a minute or two you match it with a picture and discover its poisonous. You contact 911 or similar, give them your lat/lon/alt and within 25 minutes a helicopter picks you up and delivers you to the hospital BEFORE you die. The emergency staff knows what snake it was because you identified it with the encyclopedia and you took a picture of it with your digital camera, and they are able to give you the correct anti-venom.

* You're a ranger and have been told of an emergency. You look at your device and are able to see both your possition and that of the emergency and are able to determine the quickest route to get there.

* You're a the leader of a Boy Scout Troup and one of your kids is missing. You contact him and determine his location because he has the device and you are again able to plot the quickest route to rescue him.

1. If you are out in the backcountry depending on a piece of electronics to save your life, frankly you're stupid. In SAR they have name for people like that - dead. There are too many people heading out into the backcountry with the idea that they can always call for help on their cell phone. Well, sorry to say that doesn't always work. Most of the backcountry isn't covered by cell networks. I've stood on top of Mount Rainier, with full view of Seattle & Tacoma and not gotten a signal. Electronic devices are fragail, run on batteries that can become depleated, or lack signal need.

Also, most people in such a situation aren't going to be nicely calm, and sit down and do an internet search. A more likely scenerio is they go to pull out the miracle device is such a hurry they drop and break it.

2. Gee, how have the rangers gotten along without this device so far? See the above response.

3. I'm sure every Boy Scout is going to be able to afford (by your estimates) a 500 to 800 dollar device. And what if he is hurt and can't answer the call? Dependency on electronics is not the way to go.

The above opinions have been formed over the last 40+ years of hiking the backcountry, being a First Aid instructor, and a climbing instructor.

Hey, no one said you HAD to depend on it. If you have the device to help navigate around and it is also capable of providing life saving information about a species of snake you were not familiar with why not use it? It is all too true that some people venture out without knowing an area well enough and to do so becuase you have this neat toy is unwise.

Let me ask you this -- should the person that's crashed his car and is trapped simply wait for someone to come along and help him or should he just use his cell phone to call for help? Yes, there are places without cell coverage but hardly a week goes by without hereing on the news how someone called for help with there cell phone and was saved.

Let me ask you another question -- if your wife/girlfriend/daughter were driving a long distance would you prefer she left her cell phone home or have it with her -- remember, she shouldn't depend on it -- right?

It would be nice if everyone that ventured into the mountains and woods were trained in survival like military pilots but that's not likely to happen anytime soon. Having technology shouldn't be a crutch but if you have why not use it were feasable?

Before GPS hiking was a map-and-compass thing and it would be nice if hikers today knew how to do it. Knowing how to navigate by the stars, moon and planets is also a nice thing and if I were teaching a course in backwoods survival I'd expect my students to get by without ANY technology. You know: follow streams downhill, follow powerlines, head towards to light in the sky at night that usually indicates a city, etc.

OK, one final question, say you're heading out into the mountains for a week long hike, what gear do you bring? Do you take a cell phone? GPS? Compass? Maps? Sextant? Altimeter?

Brian

October 16, 2006

1. An iPod sized or slightly larger PDA like device with...

Got it

2. A 3x4 inch high resolution (1280x1024) display

Got it

3. A 100GB or larger HD with 4GB or so of flash memory and perhaps 1GB RAM to reduce the HD activity

Don't got it, but will 2gb do?

4. A high quality sound system with ability to output no only stereo to headphones but also HDMI and 5.1/7.1 though the later features are less 'necessary'

Got it...maybe not to that degree, but...

5. Ability to output HD video to onboard display and also output it

Don't got it.

6. Cell phone features

Got it

7. GPS features with baro altitude and compass

Could have it, not with Baro, but...

8. PDA/Handheld PC with flipout keyboard capable of marrying all the above features and do -- MAPPING and moving maps at that

Got it...

9. A 6MP digital camera feature would be nice also but not absolutely necessary

1 MP, w/ 2x zoom, but...

10. WiFi and Bluetooth comm.

Don't got WiFi, but Bluetooth

11. OK, why not sat radio (Sirus/XM)

Not even close....but what about movies?

12. High capacity battery (LiIon) with ability to swap out fresh one without tools.

Got it...I think...

I could imagine having a single, multi-function connector, to handle power, USB2(HS), video, audio and data.

Got it..

Palm Treo 650. PDA, Cell phone, Web, Bluetooth (w/ optional Bluetooth GPSr), Full color display, 2GB SD card, Full Querty Keyboard, MP3 Capability, high quality sound....

My last toy before having a baby...I use web for paperless. The GPS, I have, but not often, and it conflicts with the Paperless cacheing, so I use my Rino110 for that.

--MGB

Edit: Messed up the quotes..

Yes, in spite of the fact that some here think integrating all these features into a single device is dumb it's pretty clear that the makers of such devices are getting pretty close to having it already.

The PDA makers are closing in from one side as the cell phone makers are closing in from another.

As best I can tell none of the PDA makers have the display size and resolution I'd want. The best Palm is, I believe, 320x480 and is 3.5 inch and not quite as large as I'd want. My reason for the larger higher res screen is that I'd like to be able to display the RAW images from my digital cameras so as to be able to do field edits/pruning and doing so would bennefit from a larger higher res screen. Also, a larger screen would make map reading easier, particularly for my 50yo eyes. Also, since such a device would be used for internet browsing and email as well as other PDA/handheld PC functions having a larger display is always nice.

One of the reasons I mentioned XM/Sirus sat reception is that it could give you news and weather info in places were AM/FM radio doesn't reach. If you're out on a multi-day hike you might want to be able to keep track of the weather. The news features aren't as important, however one of the guys I used to work with was hiking the AT during the late summer and early fall of 2001 -- he didn't find out about 911 until leaving the trail.

One other reason a single device has some advantages is the need for only a single charging system. If I were hiking for a week with such a device I might want a small solar cell on my backpack that could charge my spare battery.

Brian

5.6k · October 17, 2006

One more thought about combining everything into one device - how do you take notes while using the cell phone?

October 17, 2006

One more thought about combining everything into one device - how do you take notes while using the cell phone?

ANSWER: Type on the flip out qwerty keyboard! Many phones have speakerphone abilities so that wouldn't be anything new. And, being able to record the conversation might obviate the need for notes anyway.

And I do want to correct the concept of 'everything in one device' that seems to be the interpretation here. I would not expect this device to open up into a tent or to have a mace/peper spray feature. Integrating features that logically go together, make use of the same hardware (uP, storage and display, etc.) and would prove useful is the thing. I have little doubt that a decade from now devices like this will be common place and far more capable than even I have specified. Who would have expected a decade ago that cell phones would have: digital voice AND data communications, still camera and video features, music storage and playback, PDA features, WiFi and bluetooth connection to perifferals, and video games. If I'd suggested such features for cell phones a decade ago I wonder what the folks on this board would have said about the idea.

Brian

October 17, 2006

<major snippage>

A few here have also mentioned that they don't want all the eggs in one basket -- fair point -- but wait a second. If you want a cell phone and mp3 player and gps and pda you could do that with four seperate devices or a single one -- the modern cell phone. It doesn't look like the folks buying such cell phones are too terribly put off by the fact that they are all integrated into a single device. In addition to reducing the weight by putting all these things into a single device you ADD capabilities you can't do so easily with seperate devices. Say you're out caching and you have your new multifunction device with you. You follow the moving map display (topo map etc.) to the cache without having to consult with paper maps or secondary pda's or fumble arround with the wires to connect your pda to your gpsr. Need that tip -- no problem, just call it up on the screen.

Brian

I may be in the minority but when I buy a cell phone that is all I want it to do, make and receive phone calls. My PDA is just a PDA, doesn’t take pictures or play videos. My MP3 player just plays music, doesn’t play videos or store pictures and my digital camera only takes pictures (well okay it could do a few minutes of video buy I have never used it for that).

October 18, 2006

Mount all of that to the handelbars of a "Segway® XT Cross Terrain Transporter" and were golden!

www.segway.com

Edited October 18, 2006 by bulletproofcj7

2k · October 18, 2006

About the only thing that I would think would be a really useful addition for a geocacher would be a built in camera like on many cell phones. There are enough caches out there that require a picture that I could see this being a selling point, especially for the paperless cacher that may have found the cache without any advance notice that a picture was required to claim the find.

5.6k · October 18, 2006

I may be in the minority but when I buy a cell phone that is all I want it to do, make and receive phone calls. My PDA is just a PDA, doesn’t take pictures or play videos. My MP3 player just plays music, doesn’t play videos or store pictures and my digital camera only takes pictures (well okay it could do a few minutes of video buy I have never used it for that).

I'll join you in the minority. There are times I use my PDA when I don't want my GPSr, or use my camera when I'm not caching. So why should I have one bigger, heavier unit when the smaller, lighter indivual items are carried at different times? But if that's what YOU want... Besides, it's easier to talk the wife into four $200 items (spread out over time) than one $800 item.

Ultimate Tool (for caching+)

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