Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
hbrx

Final Coords When Submitting!

Recommended Posts

Cant see if this has been covered/answered in the past.

 

When submitting multis or mystery caches with false start-coords

the aprover needs to know the final destination (and any intermediate)

to check for proximity.

Could a new coordinate field be made on the subscription form

to accomodate that? Knowing that I forgets that every time I submit one

i might not be alone...Having a required field would cut down on

iterations before a cache is aproved and reduse load on the aprovers.

 

Have this been considered or discussed before?

 

hbrx.

Share this post


Link to post

The note to approver box is designed to handle that. The reviewers need the coordinates for all stages, not only the final. If a cache has 50 stages (and those do exist) should there be coordinate fields for up to 50 stages?

Share this post


Link to post
The note to approver box is designed to handle that. The reviewers need the coordinates for all stages, not only the final. If a cache has 50 stages (and those do exist) should there be coordinate fields for up to 50 stages?

I just did a multi where the final and next to final were about 60 feet apart although the posted coordinates were about a half a mile away.

 

It would seem to make sense that this information must/should be stored in the database somewhere.

 

If you don't record the coordinates for each stop on a multi, how do you know if the proximity rule has been violated on the next cache that is placed in that general area?

Share this post


Link to post
The note to approver box is designed to handle that.  The reviewers need the coordinates for all stages, not only the final.  If a cache has 50 stages (and those do exist) should there be coordinate fields for up to 50 stages?

I just did a multi where the final and next to final were about 60 feet apart although the posted coordinates were about a half a mile away.

 

It would seem to make sense that this information must/should be stored in the database somewhere.

 

If you don't record the coordinates for each stop on a multi, how do you know if the proximity rule has been violated on the next cache that is placed in that general area?

Reviwer notes say stuck to the cache page even after its listed, its just that anyone thats not a reviewer can't see them. The next time a cache is submited for that area the reviewer should have the coords for the new submission and the previous multi to check out how close they are.

At least thats how its supposed to work. Some old caches were submitted before they got strict about requiring all the coords. And/or the reviewer makes an honest human mistake and two caches that are very close get listed.

Share this post


Link to post

If it were it's own fielld in the database, rather than just text in the reveiwer notes, reviewer tools could be added that would do nearest searches based on traditional cache coords AND multi/puzzle final coords. As it is, there is no central DB for things like this, which is why it's so hard for out of the area approvers to approve multi/puzzle caches without risking violating the proximity guidelines. Of course, there's no way we would ever go back and fix all the currect caches to include the field, which may be the real reason that this isn't implemented (limited usefulness).

 

--Marky

Share this post


Link to post

Knowing that it is a manual process sure makes you appreciate the work that the reviewers put into this. With the way new caches are popping up all over it's going to get harder and harder.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm actually working on a feature for geocachers to submit additional coordinates along with the cache coordinate displayed on the page. This includes parking coordinates, stages of a multicache, a location where you need to answer a question (puzzle), and final coordinates.

 

The submitter can create view methods for any of the coordinates:

 

View by everyone: Coordinates are shown

No coordinates: Coordinates are shown as ??

Hide from view: Only the reviewer and submitter can see the coordinates and details.

 

I'm currently implementing this on the development server and making sure it shows up on cache pages and pocket queries correctly.

Share this post


Link to post

I assume that these multiple coordiantes (in SOME instances) will be able to be downloaded via GPX. Something like "download extra waypoints" - and those that are not hidden will be downloaded with the cache info.

 

Will these auxiliary waypoints be tied to the original? In other words, if these points are downloaded via the website or PQs and then uploaded to the GPS, will I be able to tell which cache they're related to?

 

Here's two extreme examples:

Adventure 9: Magellan 2005 Contest Cache has two legal parking spots listed in the description. I would probably load these up as auxiliary waypoints. When someone downloads this cache, will they show up in a GPX as GCP2ZE-A and GCP2ZE-B?

 

OR

 

There's the Great Village of the Maramek Cache, one of my favorites. To legally access this cache you have to follow 10 sequential waypoints. Would these download as GC305F-A through GC305F-J?

 

Will I be able to designate the symbol in the GPS (similar to how the GPX says "Geocache" or "Geocache Found" now) to a symbol of my choosing? If parking coordinates could be designated as "Car" it will put a little car on my GPS where I'm supposed to park.

 

Just trying to see how all of this would play out...

Share this post


Link to post
Parking coordinates. Parking coordinates would be dreamy.

I agree. Maybe if there is a place to put them, more cache hiders will realize how important they are.

 

It took me three visits to an unfamiliar, suburban area to find the parking for one cache. :)

 

On my newest cache, I used The Selector to add the Trailhead coordinates, and the pretty logo.

 

sdgoecacherlogo.jpg

 

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
It took me three visits to an unfamiliar, suburban area to find the parking for one cache. :P

This used to be called "part of the fun."

 

After 5 years folks seem to want guides posted around every cache location.

 

Oh well. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
I assume that these multiple coordiantes (in SOME instances) will be able to be downloaded via GPX. Something like "download extra waypoints" - and those that are not hidden will be downloaded with the cache info.

Yes. It's part of the reason why I haven't published the changes yet. They need to get hooked into everything, including Pocket Queries.

 

Will these auxiliary waypoints be tied to the original?  In other words, if these points are downloaded via the website or PQs and then uploaded to the GPS, will I be able to tell which cache they're related to?

 

Yes. My plan was to have the GCXXX-STAGE1 type notations for these extra coordinates. The waypoint name will be limited to 6 characters so supporting applications can just break off the GCXXX- from the code and stick it on the GPS.

 

If the coordinates are hidden I'll probably stuff them in the description since there won't be latitude or longitude.

 

Will I be able to designate the symbol in the GPS (similar to how the GPX says "Geocache" or "Geocache Found" now) to a symbol of my choosing?  If parking coordinates could be designated as "Car" it will put a little car on my GPS where I'm supposed to park.

 

Yup. They will be listed like Waypoint|Parking Location as the type. External apps can do whatever they want with icons.

 

Just trying to see how all of this would play out...

 

Hopefully the feature will be well received.

Share this post


Link to post
It took me three visits to an unfamiliar, suburban area to find the parking for one cache. :blink:

This used to be called "part of the fun."

Amen. Goodness knows we wouldn't want to do anything to slow people down from collecting their all-important smileys.

Share this post


Link to post
It took me three visits to an unfamiliar, suburban area to find the parking for one cache. B)

This used to be called "part of the fun."

 

After 5 years folks seem to want guides posted around every cache location.

 

Oh well. B)

:blink:B) Why do you hate me so . . . ? :P

 

With the price of gas being what it is, I would prefer getting to the trailhead, getting out of my car, and beginning the hike. That is where the fun is for me. Not the driving around . . . B)

 

Access to my newest cache starts in a very complicated tangle of roads high up on a boulder-strewn hill where there are many homes.

 

By including the coordinates for the Forest Service Road, and the trailhead, I hope to prevent people from driving up unmarked driveways past barking dogs and down dead-end cul-de-sacs.

 

Do you really think that should be part of the fun?

Share this post


Link to post
By including the coordinates for the Forest Service Road, and the trailhead, I hope to prevent people from driving up unmarked driveways past barking dogs and down dead-end cul-de-sacs.

 

Do you really think that should be part of the fun?

You just made a rough description of my first stash hunt. So yeah, it was fun. I learned later that there were maps that help with planning.

 

Once we have parking people will want turnoff coordinates. The beauty of this is cache owners can decide whether to use them or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Amen.  Goodness knows we wouldn't want to do anything to slow people down from collecting their all-important smileys.

You know, monomania is a disease.

 

Me, I go out for one cache a day, nearly always by myself. There's a common local phenomenon where very expensive new development is built all around the edges of a piece of conservation land. The forest is still public and accessible, but if you don't know the access point, you could slowly drive all morning around the edges of Paranoid Rich Peopleland, suffering the slings and arrows of the hairy eyeball, and never see the designated legal parking spot.

 

Sorry, I'm not in the game for the class warfare. If somebody doesn't want me somewhere, I don't want me there, either.

Share this post


Link to post
By including the coordinates for the Forest Service Road, and the trailhead, I hope to prevent people from driving up unmarked driveways past barking dogs and down dead-end cul-de-sacs.

 

Do you really think that should be part of the fun?

. . .

Once we have parking people will want turnoff coordinates. The beauty of this is cache owners can decide whether to use them or not.

I don't want "turnoff coordinates." That is what my auto-routing GPSr is for. B)

 

You just made a rough description of my first stash hunt. So yeah, it was fun. I learned later that there were maps that help with planning . . .

B) Even with a topo map, we couldn't find that Forest Service Road the first day we went looking. So, that was three gallons of gas used and no hike taken. :blink:

 

Only on the second day, with printouts from Google Earth (which I do not have access to because of my 24K dialup Internet connection), and coordinates in the GPSr, did we find it, because it looks just like another driveway with an address at the beginning of it . . . :P

 

I would just really like parking, or trailhead coordinates, if the location is very difficult to find. In one suburban area here, all the maps in the world don't help you find the 8' wide public access trail situated between two huge houses on a suburban street. B) Other than that itty-bitty trail, the canyon is inaccessible.

 

Having the coordinates available and searchable in a database will be very helpful for the approvers and will prevent the close-proximity problem I found with one Traditional cache and the end of a two-stage Multi here. It was nice to get a "two-fer" at that location, but I'm sure that wasn't supposed to happen . . . B)

Share this post


Link to post

I'm with Auntie on the parking coordinates. I update my mapping resources fanatically and still can't keep up with the rapid pace of development in my clearance area. I've stopped at information booths, local businesses, Chambers of Commerce, gas stations, etc. and the vast majority of the time even the locals have no idea where some of these new roads are. Even local government websites aren't updated frequently enough to be of much use. There is still a challenge after finding the parking in not attracting the undivided attention of the locals.

 

Bag o'Tricks

Share this post


Link to post

Quick! Someone call a whaaaambulance!

 

........_______@@_.

-.-..../ =<>= /__?_\____

--.-..|==Whaaaambulance-@

-.--.-.`--(@)======(@)=||

 

I don't put the site together just for me you know. There are plenty of features that people use on the site that I don't necessarily need. However I can still kvetch about how you young upstarts need your hands held around the place.

 

I like parking coordinates but I don't *need* them. Suck it up.

Share this post


Link to post

99% of the time, I don't need parking coordinates either. But when they are provided, they are helpful. And in the case of the Adventure 9 cache I posted above, if cachers don't use the coordinates (there is closer parking nearby, but it is a private lot for a company), they can find their cars towed when they return.

 

The ONLY reason I suggested an additional field for parking coordinates back in 2002 was to save the pain (and possible errors) of hand-entering parking coordinates that are found in the description. If they're entered automatically into the GPS, it saves people from entering they tediously by hand, and saves on end-user errors. (If the cache owner types them incorrectly, so be it - Caveat Emptor.)

 

I can read a map. I can read my GPS. I can usually do those things while driving. If I plan well enough ahead with Lostoutdoors.com or other online resources and terra server viewers, I can probably find the whole cache without a GPS.

 

But if someone's going to be insistent that I park in a particular spot - for whatever reason he or she might have - I'd like to try my best to get to the RIGHT parking lot.

 

OK - I'm done.

Share this post


Link to post

Nothing to kvetch about, just a big thanks for the steady stream of new features.

Share this post


Link to post
It took me three visits to an unfamiliar, suburban area to find the parking for one cache. :lol:

This used to be called "part of the fun."

Wow, I must be farther behind that I thought. For me, it is still part of "the fun." ;) I enjoy exploring new areas.

Share this post


Link to post

As another "old timer" I also liked when the descriptions were one or two sentences and there was no hints, much less parking coords/

Share this post


Link to post

Parking coordinates are especially important where alternate routes exist to get to a properly placed cache, but some would lead the hunter through areas that might trespass on private property where permission wasn't granted. A parking coordinates field should remind and encourage hiders to lead cache seekers on the publically accessible path.

Share this post


Link to post

Having the ability to specify extra coordinates, coded as such, will be a great enhancement. Sometimes it is parking coordinates, sometimes it is other things. I can think of several things that could enhance the experience. Thanks Jeremy, for working on this.

Share this post


Link to post

That will be a nice Option for PQ's and Cache Pages.

 

Not needed, but nice to have.

 

Like other items.. you don't have to use it, but it's there if you want to.

 

Thanks Jeremy.... although I too enjoy trying to figure out where to park, it's nice to have something to fall back on if I can't figure it out.

 

:blink: The Blue Quasar

Share this post


Link to post
Parking coordinates are especially important where alternate routes exist to get to a properly placed cache, but some would lead the hunter through areas that might trespass on private property where permission wasn't granted. A parking coordinates field should remind and encourage hiders to lead cache seekers on the publically accessible path.

 

Or a simple alternative is to make the cache a multi: stage 1 is the parking lot.

Share this post


Link to post

;) Only problem with that is that some people filter out Multis . . . ;)

 

Especially people who cache "paperless" and are going to be traveling through an area.

 

It would be nice if there was an option to put in parking coordinates, or trailhead coordinates, if the access is especially difficult to figure out, even with maps . . . :)

Share this post


Link to post
Parking coordinates are especially important where alternate routes exist to get to a properly placed cache, but some would lead the hunter through areas that might trespass on private property where permission wasn't granted. A parking coordinates field should remind and encourage hiders to lead cache seekers on the publically accessible path.

 

Or a simple alternative is to make the cache a multi: stage 1 is the parking lot.

Also that rules out any other cache placement near the parking lot.

Share this post


Link to post

While adding fields that reviewers and submitters can see... A general notes field that is secure would be great. I would love to document back ground information for puzzles and notes that went into creating a cache. That way if I were to ever have to give my caches away to be maintained by someone else that info would go with the cache. It would also be nice for reviewers to get the whole picture.

Share this post


Link to post
While adding fields that reviewers and submitters can see... A general notes field that is secure would be great. I would love to document back ground information for puzzles and notes that went into creating a cache. That way if I were to ever have to give my caches away to be maintained by someone else that info would go with the cache. It would also be nice for reviewers to get the whole picture.

There will be a short description field for each waypoint. If it is hidden only you and the reviewer will be able to see it.

Share this post


Link to post

It might be a nice feature. Not sure. I know that there are a number of folks in this area who don't even look at the parking coordinates when they are given in the body of the cache description.

 

I recently parked where directed for a cache and, a short way from my truck, found the entrance to a nice trail that eventually took me to the cache. A number of other folks followed their arrow and parked when they were "near" the cache. They had to go up and down the cliff to get to the cache.

 

Even if you do have a field for the parking coordinates there will still be those who don't pay attention to them, don't want them, etc.

 

I see a number of old timers here who are talking about the n00bs wanting their hands held. We don't all want or need that. I've often wondered why so many caches have a "hint" that pretty specifically gives the thing away. It's so common that all of us new folks haven't done it any other way so it gets perpetuated. I know I put the things in my cache descriptions too - it seems to be expected. I know I feel more satisfaction when I find the cache without any hints or help. I wish I could have started this "back in the day" but.......... Of course back then I doubt that things were so saturated that folks had to place caches where the parking coordinates were needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Yes. It's part of the reason why I haven't published the changes yet. They need to get hooked into everything, including Pocket Queries.

Seems to be there now ... but it's not working. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Yes. It's part of the reason why I haven't published the changes yet. They need to get hooked into everything, including Pocket Queries.

Seems to be there now ... but it's not working. :(

The link shouldn't be there. It was an artifact from the latest update. That's where it will go eventually though :P

Share this post


Link to post
Yes. It's part of the reason why I haven't published the changes yet. They need to get hooked into everything, including Pocket Queries.

Seems to be there now ... but it's not working. :(

The link shouldn't be there. It was an artifact from the latest update. That's where it will go eventually though :P

Cool. Looking forward to putting the coords of my multis online for my eyes only instead of on little scraps of paper around my computer! (ok, maybe I'm a little more organized than that, but not much!)

Share this post


Link to post

Cool. Looking forward to putting the coords of my multis online for my eyes only instead of on little scraps of paper around my computer! (ok, maybe I'm a little more organized than that, but not much!)

Display, add/edit is all working perfectly. The Pocket queries are always the painful bits. I also look forward to seeing how people use the new feature.

Share this post


Link to post

Cool.  Looking forward to putting the coords of my multis online for my eyes only instead of on little scraps of paper around my computer!  (ok, maybe I'm a little more organized than that, but not much!)

I also look forward to seeing how people use the new feature.

Probably for things you never envisioned. "Email me the number of spaces in the parking lot for an extra smiley"

Share this post


Link to post

Cool.  Looking forward to putting the coords of my multis online for my eyes only instead of on little scraps of paper around my computer!  (ok, maybe I'm a little more organized than that, but not much!)

I also look forward to seeing how people use the new feature.

Probably for things you never envisioned. "Email me the number of spaces in the parking lot for an extra smiley"

How about "The extra coords are to a nearby terracache/navicache". :(

Share this post


Link to post

Cool.  Looking forward to putting the coords of my multis online for my eyes only instead of on little scraps of paper around my computer!  (ok, maybe I'm a little more organized than that, but not much!)

I also look forward to seeing how people use the new feature.

Probably for things you never envisioned. "Email me the number of spaces in the parking lot for an extra smiley"

How about "The extra coords are to a nearby terracache/navicache". :(

Now you're gonna make Jeremy rip out all that code!

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

×
×
  • Create New...