New Cache Question

[+purple_pineapple]

Prompting much excitement in the purple-pineapple household (we don't get many) was a new cache notification for a few miles from home. Wimbledon Common On reading the decription and clue, I was rather surprised to see that the cache is in a rabbit hole. I thought this was prohibited?

The owners seem rather new to caching, having only logged one virtual, and prompted a discussion between me and the missus about whether a minimum of, say, 10 caches should be logged before being allowed to place one. Any thoughts?

 

Dave

[NickPick]

I thought the use of animal burrows was prohibited in the guidelines, but I can't find it now.

 

I have seen a few caches in disused animal burrows.

 

As for the 10 finds before hiding, it's not a bad idea, and I think that most people do wait until they've had a bit of experience before hiding a cache.

 

You could contact the cache placer directly and let them know your concerns about the use of rabbit holes, and offer your assistance / guidance.

[+Haggis Hunter]

It doesn't say it is in the rabbit hole, it just says check it out, it could be to the side. Although the implication is that it is in the hole.

[+purple_pineapple]

a fair point Mr Haggis sir! I will find out for sure when i bag it! Following on from which, whats the etiquette in moving caches? if it is in an animal hole, would it be acceptable to move it to a more appropriate hide nearby and notify the owners, or to leave that up to them?

[+Learned Gerbil]

As only the owners can change the coords, change the clue, alter the description etc I would leave it to them. I emailed them last night about some features of this and their other cache that I hope they can change. I had not bothered to read the clue, but I didn't bother racing for FTF on my way to work this morning either.

 

Tonight I will email them about something I spotted on their TB pages, unles someone else has already done it.

[+purple_pineapple]

My sentiments exactly, and nice to find another presumably local cacher I haven't contacted them, but I did notice that their Bushy Park cache appears to be in richmond park. I haven't checked for their third, but i do wander if its going to be in bushy park, and called Richmond Park! Are the caches mixed up, and which clue is for which i wander?!

 

Dave

[+purple_pineapple]

Tonight I will email them about something I spotted on their TB pages, unles someone else has already done it.

Just had a gander myself - bit of a boo boo I think! I'll leave it to your experience to let them know!

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

Doesn't this sniff a bit of a commercial?

The triangulation point wouldn't be a well known outdoor retailer in Kingston would it?

 

Why bother to set a cache that size and then only put a TB, notebook and pen inside? Were the caches set up just to release the bugs or something?

[+Simply Paul]

"Well, it is a disused rabbit hole."

"It's disused because there's a cache blocking it!"

 

I've found a few boxes in holes which looked disused, but as no rabbit or badger poop expert, I can't be sure. I've avoided taking the chance with any of my hides.

 

As for moving a cache, when I was out with Alibags earlier this month we found one that was *so* exposed it was begging to be muggled by the first person to pass within 100ft of it. So she moved it to a safer spot some 100ft away and we both took co-ords. She emailed the owner with the new location and a good clue (and photos I think) - It seemed like the responsible thing to do with a cache so 'at risk' where it was.

 

SP

[+purple_pineapple]

Doesn't this sniff a bit of a commercial?

The triangulation point wouldn't be a well known outdoor retailer in Kingston would it?

hadn't thought of that, but it does rather doesn't it!

 

A quick look on streetmap and it may well triangulate to kingston - can't tell if it is THAT shop, but there is a branch in kingston.... May be simply that the owner works there of course....

[+Learned Gerbil]

What does "The cach is one of three that have been placed and all traingulate to "Point A", can you find me at "Point A" and tell me the names of the three caches." mean anyway? Are we meant to be looking for the Orthocentre of the triangle set out by the three caches?

 

[bTW - I just cut and paste what other write!]

Edited September 26, 2005 by Learned Gerbil

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

Are we meant to be looking for the Orthocentre of the triangle set out by the three caches?

 

Err, yes, I guess we are, but why we would be eludes me. What's the point?

[+purple_pineapple]

Glad it's not me being dense, cos i wasn't sure what that meant either. If it does mean the centre of the triangle, then it looks close to kingston town centre. Perhaps our esteemed moderators could see what they think! If i remember rightly, there's no mention of a cache at "Point A"...

[+third-degree-witch]

I recently did this cache 'GCD516'. Its placed in a hole within a partly active badgers sett..i made a point of mentioning it but it seems nothing has been done.

As i said at the time, its only a matter of time before its seen by others who dont share our joy at finding boxes dotted about.

[+Moote]

My feeling on this, is that if we want to get a bad name then this is the way to do it. It should be removed and the owner emailed so that he can collect and place in a better location.

 

Milton (aka moote)

[+Learned Gerbil]

Glad it's not me being dense, cos i wasn't sure what that meant either. If it does mean the centre of the triangle, then it looks close to kingston town centre. Perhaps our esteemed moderators could see what they think! If i remember rightly, there's no mention of a cache at "Point A"...

But what do you mean by the centre of a triangle? This demonstrates there are lots of "centres". I had overlooked the centroid which may be more likely than the orthocentre, but the circumcentre could be possible.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_(geometry)

[+purple_pineapple]

wow - having to dredge up some woefully underused maths there! I suppose I was talking about the centroid of the triangle but, as you say, take your pick!

[+Moote]

But what do you mean by the centre of a triangle? This demonstrates there are lots of "centres". I had overlooked the centroid which may be more likely than the orthocentre, but the circumcentre could be possible.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_(geometry)

I think that this is only true in a Newtonian Universe! Now in a Planck Universe based on Quantum rules the centre is where ever you want it to be as the centre can exist in many forms.

 

Milton (aka moote)

[+purple_pineapple]

[+Roving Rangies]

I am ducking as the above messages about centroid and the like fly right over my head!

[+Bill D (wwh)]

The GAGB guidelines recommend that a cache should not be placed in an animal hole, but that's only binding if the cache is placed under an agreement that incorporates that guideline. I don't think gc.com have a guideline about animal holes, but it's certainly not a good idea to place a cache in one.

 

It's an offence to obstruct a badger sett, so if the cache mentioned above is in one, then it needs to be moved or archived.

Edited September 26, 2005 by Bill D (wwh)

[+Moote]

I don't think gc.com have a guideline about animal holes, but it's certainly not a good idea to place a cache in one.

I am not a Vet but I am sure that placing caches in animal holes would be very painful indeed for the creature in question and as such should not be encouraged.

 

Milton (aka moote)

[+Learned Gerbil]

I am not a vet either - but I have seen medical instruments far larger than some micros!

[+Moote]

I am not a vet either - but I have seen medical instruments far larger than some micros!

Yes and this is the tool you need to use to access some micros

[+purple_pineapple]

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

I am not a vet either - but I have seen medical instruments far larger than some micros!

Bbbbbbbut! Who said anything about Micros?

 

Apparently, "the cache box is about the size of a brick" which one would imagine might well be large enough to block the entrance to a rabbit hole.

[+The Blorenges]

Now don't get me wrong, I really like rabbits (in any form, including braised) and don't wish them to be unduely harassed but, unlike badgers, they are not protected, there are millions of them and I rather suspect that any rabbit worth his carrots, when finding his front door obstructed by a plastic lunchbox, would shrug his bunny shoulders, spit out the grass shoot he was chewing and simply burrow around it.

 

.... Now if it was a haggis burrow you'd be in serious trouble...

[Shep, Seren & Tess Dog]

How do you get the rabbit to stay still long enough to... um...'insert' the cache into the aforementioned hole?....or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!?

Seren.

[+bobuk]

How do you get the rabbit to stay still long enough to... um...'insert' the cache into the aforementioned hole?....or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!?

Seren.

I think you mean 'wrong end of the brick'

 

 

B

[+Roving Rangies]

How do you get the rabbit to stay still long enough to... um...'insert' the cache into the aforementioned hole?....or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!?

Seren.

I think you mean 'wrong end of the brick'

 

 

B

I think he ought to be careful removing the blockage

[+Munkeh]

I nearly put a cache in a rabbits hole once, but then when I realised what it was, I wasn't comfortable with the Idea, Plus I thought the angry bunny might just push it out exposing the cache

[+purple_pineapple]

talking of which, so you know what you get when you pour boliling water down a rabbit warren?

 

 

Hot Cross Bunnies

Edited September 27, 2005 by purple_pineapple

[The Royles]

How do you get the rabbit to stay still long enough to... um...'insert' the cache into the aforementioned hole?....or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!? 

Seren.

 

If you used the stick to aid insertion, you may want to avoid the 'wrong' end after that.

Edited September 27, 2005 by The Royles

[+The Blorenges]

Now we're all having very unkind thoughts about this poor old bunny.... it's most unfair.

Back to the original thread - Let's be sensible now.

Given the location, are you sure it's a rabbit hole and not a Womble hole?

 

and, yes, I agree with the suggestion that maybe cachers should complete at least 10 finds before placing a cache. But I think that would just have to be a recommendation, rather than a rigid rule... One has to hope that most new cachers would be sensible enough to gain a bit of experience first.

Mrs B

[+Learned Gerbil]

Regretably, 48 hours after emailing some helpful advice on their caches, and 24 hours after posting some advice re their TBs, I have had no reply. I find it strange that the "Bushy Park" cache is not only named incorrectly, but the setter, despite having only done one virtual in Cyprus, did not take the opportunity to do two regular caches that would involve a very short walk from where they ahve set their cache.

[+Moote]

Regretably, 48 hours after emailing some helpful advice on their caches, and 24 hours after posting some advice re their TBs, I have had no reply. I find it strange that the "Bushy Park" cache is not only named incorrectly, but the setter, despite having only done one virtual in Cyprus, did not take the opportunity to do two regular caches that would involve a very short walk from where they ahve set their cache.

Maybe they got your emails and went back and a Killer rabbit ate them for blocking its hole up

 

Milton (aka moote)

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

Regretably, 48 hours after emailing some helpful advice on their caches, and 24 hours after posting some advice re their TBs, I have had no reply. I find it strange that the "Bushy Park" cache is not only named incorrectly, but the setter, despite having only done one virtual in Cyprus, did not take the opportunity to do two regular caches that would involve a very short walk from where they ahve set their cache.

LG, sadly this only reinforces my original feelings that they might well be commercial caches and also they have been set up for releasing the TBs registered to this "cacher".

[NickPick]

I've just noticed the placer's name and Occupation listed in their profile. It looks like it could be a case of commercial caches to me. The "Find me at the centroid"(And visit my shop) is looking decidedly dodgy. All they havn't done is include a demo version of some GPS software in the cache

 

On the other hand, it could just be a cacher who happens to work for a outdoor equipment retailer, who'd like to meet fellow cachers if they're in the area.

[+purple_pineapple]

I know the cache has been visited already (by Rodz, IIRC) so i may contact him and find out more about the actual cache (any black catalogues for outdoor shops in it, that kind of thing!). I'd love to get out there and check, but I'm a bit tied up this weekend - perhaps LG may venture forth, although I can't say its an appealing cache! The idea of a trip to the shop sounds more exciting

[+Learned Gerbil]

I would like ot see where the third cache is - if it is a shop in Kingston - is there significance to "point A"? I have not been there for a while, but I wonder what retailers currently occupy the Apple Market.

 

GerbilQueen works in Kingston very close to there - I might ask her to take a look.

[+Phil and Ruth]

I have noticed that there is one of their TBs in a cache called "Richmond Park" but it hasn't been approved yet:

Cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...66-3cded5d4b67e

TB: http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=154301

 

I was under the impression that caches were approved pretty quickly unless there is a particular problem with them - maybe one of the reviewers is alread looking in to this?

 

You obviously need three points to triangulate something (the name kinda gives it away) so without this cache there is no way to find Point A...

Edited September 28, 2005 by Phil and Ruth

[+Phil and Ruth]

A little more detective work (Yell.com) has uncovered:

 

Cotswold Outdoor, Action & Travel

72-76, Clarence St, Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey KT1 1NW

Tel: 020 8549 9500 Classification: Camping & Outdoor Equipment

 

Put that together with their user name and hmmm........

[NickPick]

So, using the 2 listed caches, and the shop location as the centroid, who can figure out the location of the unapproved cache and visit it before it's listed?

 

Or,,, who can be bothered to?

[+Learned Gerbil]

Normally you need two points and two angles to find the third point. This arrangment appears to be three points and no angles - a challenge!

 

GQ confirms there is a Barbour at 1 Crown Passage which is located at a very interesting "point A". The Apple Market is a triangular shape, and at the apex is a small arcade - Crown Passage.

[NickPick]

TB: http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=154301

And a tracking number shown in the TB photo! That's not very sensible is it?

[+Phil and Ruth]

Suddenly (and I mean within the last five minutes) both "Cotswold Kingston" caches have been archived with the note "checking co-ordinants"...

[+purple_pineapple]

Well, some interesting developments. Firstly, to paraphrase from rodz reply, the cache only contains a pen, log book and TB. The pen is provided by our favourite outdoor shop... He didn't notice whether the log book was similarly branded!

 

Secondly, the Bushy Park cache has a bearing on the lid, 199 degrees. Anyone care to work out whether that goes through kingston?!

 

Finally, Wimbledon Park has just been disabled by the owners, apparently to check the coords. These are apparently about 150 feet out!

 

The mystery deepens!

[+purple_pineapple]

oh, and incidently, the one cache that is logged by them is a virtual in cyprus that doesn't need any e-mail confirmation... make of that what you will!

 

Sherlock Dave

[+Learned Gerbil]

Well, some interesting developments. Firstly, to paraphrase from rodz reply, the cache only contains a pen, log book and TB. The pen is provided by our favourite outdoor shop... He didn't notice whether the log book was similarly branded!

 

Secondly, the Bushy Park cache has a bearing on the lid, 199 degrees. Anyone care to work out whether that goes through kingston?!

 

Finally, Wimbledon Park has just been disabled by the owners, apparently to check the coords. These are apparently about 150 feet out!

 

The mystery deepens!

20 degrees from South would go very close to west side the Market Place (not the Apple Market as I suspected). Guess what has been on the west side of the Market Place since I was a lad?

[Lactodorum]

I had hoped to stay out of this discussion but as the conspiracy theories are gathering pace I guess I ought to say a couple of words.

 

As to there only being two caches when 3 were mentioned the explanation is boringly simply. There ARE 3 but I put one of them on hold when reviewing them. I am waiting for a response to my reviewer note before publishing it. I did consider holding the other two but as they are standalone caches I decided to let them go.

 

I am well aware of the slightly confusing titles, and I'm guessing that the owner may have made a mistake. However the title doesn't have any bearing on one's ability to find the actual cache, and no guidelines were broken, so again I let them go.

 

As for it being a commercial cache, that's more of a concern but as no mention was made in the cache description of anything overtly commercial I saw no reason to disallow them at the time. Many caches around the world encourage finders to visit commercial premises (in this country pubs and cafes especially). To find or log these caches there is no need to visit Cotswold Outdoor Leisure, and indeed no mention is made of the name, so on balance again I decided to let them go.

 

I hope this goes some way to explaining how the review process worked in this instance. Thanks for all your concerns though.

 

p.s. I know the virtual cache in question and agree it doesn't have a verification any more (it did but the sign got washed away) A very good example of why holiday virtuals are no longer allowed!!

Edited September 28, 2005 by Lactodorum