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Ciho Cache In Hobos Out


BillsBayou
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Just place it there, and make very little mention of it in the cache page-

That way, cachers can wander right into the hobo camp, and figure out for themselves what to do next, or be attacked by the hobos dog, etc.

 

That is sarcasm, but in reality Ive heard some scary stories from some Mn cachers about what they found when arriving at some cache sites. In some cases, Hobo's are the least of your worries.

 

Some people think these are places people ought to see. I however, do not.

Some people think its funny to lead people into dangerous areas. I do not.

 

I would skip the hide. Personally, I stopped searching for many caches based solely on where they are located, and the hider becuase of similar worries in the past.

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You are right that personal attacks only tend to inflame people with personality defects.

 

Wow, a veiled personal attack in a sentence which apologizes for personal attacks. I bet that took some planning.

 

Why marginalize other people's points of view? I don't get it.

 

Apparently, we disagree. That's fine.

 

While I certainly believe that society should help those in need, I believe that all should be required to take personal responsibility for their actions and should not merely feed off of society.

 

I really think that the homeless is better served when they can be identified and steered to appropriate assistance. Ignoring them and letting them as suggested by some in this thread does absolutely nothing to solve the problem.

Edited by sbell111
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Should a "Bum Inhabitance" attribute be added to the list when cachers pick attributes, so a cacher will know to throw a quarter pounder in the opposite direction of the cache when they find it?

 

If this place is made of vines and broken trees, I think you could probably place a well camo'd cache there like Lep said, and if it's really that hard to find, leave a good hint.

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Where would I suggest they go?  We've got shelters.  We've got programs. 

Shelters which are:

 

a) overloaded as it is

b ) hard to get into

c) don't accept everyone

d) sometimes much unsafer than the streets

 

Keep in mind that not all homeless are homeless because of something that was their own fault:

 

a) kids whose parents "throw them away" (it is a term - not a literal one)

b ) victims of large factory closings (even those who save for years cannot always survive after this happens.)

c) major disaster (hurricanes, earthquakes, fires - disaster aid is not always enough to help these people)

 

Please think before you judge - sometimes someone you think you know well may once have been a "hobo" themselves...

 

edited to get rid of the dreaded smilies due to )

Edited by ohgrl
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Oh! My goodness! There are homeless people in the world?!? How could this be permitted to happen?!? Round them up, and run them off!

<Sarcasm mode off>

Yes, social programs are available. No, you cannot force anyone into one. We have the right to be whatever we are! This is America. Been there. Suffered badly from it.

That being said, I can think of a few great caches that have been muggled by the homeless. So, find a different place to put the cache. It's a big world out there.

I found a great spot for a cache. And found someone sleeping there. So I found another spot for it. Easy enough to do. Okay, happened twice...

I've passed by people sleeping on trails. I've seen tents off in the distance. That's their world, not mine. Live and let live. This is a free country.

I am not pompous enough to think that I can solve all the world's problems. I've been around the block more than a few times.

Running off the homeless so that I can put a cache where they live?!? There are words that describe that thought process, but geocaching guidelines prohibit me from using them.

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I really don't want this thread to turn into a discussion on the homeless situation. I found some garbage that looked like someone was collecting it. I just want to know how to discourage homeless muggles from occupying an area that looks like the untamed edge of what would otherwise be a nice little park. Maybe I'll go get some pictures this weekend. It's a good CITO spot, but I'm preparing it for a cache site, not a nest.

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I've never dealt with a situation of this nature. But talking to any person, if you feel safe enough to confront them with your problem they may be well obliged to move, or live in coexistence with said cache.

 

These may be friendly hobos, but then again they may not be.

 

It's a tough situation, but the safest answer would just to not hide it there, because even if you "shoo" them away, just like flies, they'll come back.

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I'm sorry, but your desire to place a cache that you see is blocked by homless people dosen't over rule their right to occupy that space. Actually it's pretty selfish.

 

As someone that grew up poor I was homeless several times in my life. The only thing was, I didn't know at the time that I was homeless. Us kids called it camping. People have problems and they deserve a chance.

 

Their right for survival greatly outweighs your right to play a game.

 

El Diablo

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I'm sorry, but your desire to place a cache that you see is blocked by homless people dosen't over rule their right to occupy that space. Actually it's pretty selfish.

 

As someone that grew up poor I was homeless several times in my life. The only thing was, I didn't know at the time that I was homeless. Us kids called it camping. People have problems and they deserve a chance.

 

Their right for survival greatly outweighs your right to play a game.

 

El Diablo

Well said El Diablo!!!!

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Their right for survival greatly outweighs your right to play a game.

Unfortunately for the homeless in our community, most rights are reserved for taxpayers.

The mountain is high, the valley is low,

And you're confused 'bout which to go,

So I flew in to give you a hand,

And lead you into, the promised land.

 

Come on and take a free ride,

free ride,

Come on and take it by my side,

Come on and take a free ride!

 

Advertisement for hobos? Some people are homeless and are just trying to "get back into the swing of things" but then you have others that want to get alot of things handed to them. I've been going to Pirate (Pittsburgh) games for years, and I know the regulars that come out there to collect, but once they make their quota it sometimes doesn't all go to "put food on the table", but goes to less godly things. :D

 

Spelling

Edited by Team AlphaOmega
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Should a "Bum Inhabitance" attribute be added to the list when cachers pick attributes, so a cacher will know to throw a quarter pounder in the opposite direction of the cache when they find it?...

I asked this question in an earlier thread on this same topic. I even challenged someone to design an icon. They did; it was a little shopping cart.

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I have a cache spot in mind from which I received a poison ivy attack. I'm going in there with some Round-Up and a long long rake. That spot WILL be mine.

 

This might be a bit much it is essential like buring a cache you are haveing to terraform it to place the cache. BAD IDEA.

cheers

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I found a great spot for a cache. Unfortunately I think it's a homeless hideout. What's the best way to clear it for cachers? The sherriff here is a real hard nose when it comes to this sort of thing, but while that will work for me, I want to know what techniques other cachers use to prep a cache site.

I'm not going to get into the political aspect here, so I'll respond just from a geocaching standpoint. I don't think you should assume the responsibility of clearing the cache site of homeless people. If the immediate area around the cache is someplace you would feel safe (guarded and taking precautions perhaps, but don't really feel immediate danger other than to your personal comfort) then go ahead and list it, but make note in the listing of the presence of the homeless. That way people can decide for themselves to visit it or not.

 

An area cacher who is responsible for all my favorite caches (and still yet to be resolved DNFs) has a cache near the dwellings of some homeless. This is clearly stated in the listing for this cache. I see no problem with it, because people are informed ahead of time of what they may encounter should they choose to go after the cache. I haven't attempted this one yet, but I'm sure I will because the logs about the challenging terrain and scenery are speaking to me. I will leave the kids at home with Dad, though.

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You are right that personal attacks only tend to inflame people with personality defects.

 

Wow, a veiled personal attack in a sentence which apologizes for personal attacks. I bet that took some planning.

 

Why marginalize other people's points of view? I don't get it.

 

Apparently, we disagree. That's fine.

 

While I certainly believe that society should help those in need, I believe that all should be required to take personal responsibility for their actions and should not merely feed off of society.

 

I really think that the homeless is better served when they can be identified and steered to appropriate assistance. Ignoring them and letting them as suggested by some in this thread does absolutely nothing to solve the problem.

Actually I think that we essentially agree.

After looking the thread over I must admit that I overreacted.

The process you are unclear about is called passive/aggressive behavior.

Sorry.

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A number of people have mentioned that the homeless have a right to live wherever they are. I just glanced through the bill of rights, and that wasn't anywhere in it. I don't have a right to pitch a tent in the local park any more than I have a right to pitch one in the town square or your front yard.

 

If I do decide to pitch a tent in any of these places, our local police are going to be arriving in due course. Perhaps they will just chase me off. Maybe, they will give me a place to sleep, on them. (I'll get to leave as soon as they open the door.) Maybe they will take me to a shelter and introduce me to some people who can help me with my troubles. Either way, we should all be thankful for their service.

Edited by sbell111
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Having given a homeless person a ride from one town to the next in Schoharie County in New York a few weeks ago, I can assure you that some people prefer to be homeless, do not want jobs, and do not want people forcing help on them. We had a very interesting conversation and I found out good places to sleep, get free food, gas, transportation and lodging.

 

For instance, he often slept in model sheds placed outside most home improvement centers and lumber yards. Apparently U-Haul does not lock the doors on the trailers and trucks they rent, he slept there too. Many churches will give homeless people vouchers for free food, gas, and lodging as many police departments will. Travellers Aid and the Red Cross also help out. He hooked up with a girlfriend and they would make $500 a day panhandling in train stations around Boston. They could only stay for 2 or 3 days at a station before their take started to drop off, they then moved to another station.

 

Even though the guy smelled a bit and wanted to smoke in my car, it was worth giving him a ride, because I now know how to hop rides on freight trains, which is something I always wanted to do as a kid.

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Any dissertation on the conditions causing people to be homeless must also address personality disorder.

Many homeless people have been through major tramas which bring on syndromes such as substance abuse, bi-polar, schizophrenia, multiple personality and more of the things that it is very difficult for rational people to deal with.

My personal feeling is that these third order defenses become chemically based over time unless there is chemical intervention and group counseling.

Picture yourself as not trusting anyone around you and having no social network to lean on and you will get a minor idea of the way most of the homeless people feel in their daily lives.

Couple that with the way most people look at and treat the homeless and it gets a little closer to their worldview.

Most of the ones I have dealt with have so little trust that they do not well in any type of adjunctive therapy.

End of sermon

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I wonder how many hours of volunteer time in a homless shelter I would have to do to overcome the Karma debt of displacing a homeless person?

 

We have been known to pack in a few hamburgers when we know there is a good chance we may be invading someone's space while chaching. The concept of invading a homeless person's space isn't about the letter of the law it's about common human descency. These folks are not necesarilly lazy but in most cases mentally ill. The lazy people are currently housed and enjoying your tax dollars. I can find a lot more respect for a man living under a bridge than I can a man who stays home and collects wellfare he doesn't 'have' to have.

 

That being said I never give them money when they ask. Twice now the same man has approached me with a sob story about being robbed and needing bus fare to get home. Both times he had a nice big black eye to accent the story. Now that's working hard for your money. The first time I felt bad about saying no. The second time was over a year later and I was so relieved to have proof of the 'trick' I almost helped out. I figure if he's smart and dedicated enough to take it in the face every few days he's got a few dozen IQ points over the average fast food employee. I might not care much for his tactics or choices but I'm not going to be the guy who evicts him from the drainage ditch he calls home.

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So far, the examples of homeless people have been people with mental illness and those that would rather live off society than get a job to improve their situation. The first group, I feel sorry for and I believe should be helped, one way or the other. The second group should be forced to straighten up. Squatting is illegal, as is panhandling.

 

Ignoring the homeless and letting them live however they want is not an acceptable solution.

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So far, the examples of homeless people have been people with mental illness and those that would rather live off society than get a job to improve their situation. The first group, I feel sorry for and I believe should be helped, one way or the other. The second group should be forced to straighten up. Squatting is illegal, as is panhandling.

 

Ignoring the homeless and letting them live however they want is not an acceptable solution.

I agree and it appears that the Govt. and Humanatarian Orginizations haven't found a viable solution. If you have one, please share it.

 

In the mean time I am not sufficiently motivated to take a few dozen into my home or kick them out of theirs, even if it is a primo cache location.

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...In the mean time I am not sufficiently motivated to take a few dozen into my home or kick them out of theirs, even if it is a primo cache location.

Luckily, they don't have homes. :rolleyes:

 

No one get's a free pass to break the law.

 

BTW, I shared my solution up above.

Edited by sbell111
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BTW, I shared my solution up above.

I just don't see a solution. What I do see is a declaration of your opinion which I happen to agree with. What I don't agree with is that intolerance is a solution.

 

Here in Cincinnati panhandling is legal, in fact the city sells permits.

 

As for squatting our good Mayor bulldozed a few highway underpass camps only to later find out the city didn't have the right to evict people from Federal land. There was a lawsuit and hilarity ensued. :rolleyes:

 

I'd prefer the local cops keep busy dealing with things like violent crime and drugs rather than chasing Box Car Willy from park to park simply because it cramps my caching style. As I sit in front of my new PC in my air conditioned home on a payday I just can't bring myself to draw a hard line on those less fortunate than I.

Edited by Johnnie Stalkers
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I found a great spot for a cache.  Unfortunately I think it's a homeless hideout.  What's the best way to clear it for cachers?

I’m shocked at the audacity displayed in this selfish statement. :rolleyes:

 

BTW, people who don't have shelter are houseless - not homeless! Homelessness has nothing to do with a lack of shelter.

 

Define Homeless: 'An inadequate experience of connectedness with family and or community.'

 

This fact is now recognized by Habitat, the United Nations Human Settlements Program. :):)

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...I'd prefer the local cops keep busy dealing with things like violent crime and drugs rather than chasing Box Car Willy from park to park simply because it cramps my caching style.  As I sit in front of my new PC in my air conditioned home on a payday I just can't bring myself to draw a hard line on those less fortunate than I.

These are the issues that we disagree on.

 

First, you beat crime by getting rid of it from the bottom up, not from the top down. BTW, wars are won by drawing that hard line and enforcing your decisions.

 

Second, How well you and I are doing has nothing to do with whether it is appropriate for others to live however they darn well please.

 

The first thing I thought of when I read this topic for the first time (again) is that I'm really happy that there are no 'homeless' people squatting in my home town. There have been, from time to time, but due to the diligence of the local police, they don't stay.

Edited by sbell111
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There sure are the ill and the lazy. Then there are the exceptions. The real problem is that with whatever you do, you might hit 1000 times the right and 1 time the wrong.

 

There is some apparently "houseless/homeless" person around in our area. Sometimes he appears to remove the trash around the local Burger King and Dunkin' Donuts and I assume he doesn't do it just for the fun of it. Then he disappears for weeks. Whatever caused that guy to end up where he is and whatever the reason why he doesn't do more or something else, it didn't take the last bit of dignity from him.

 

I have no clue where he spends the nights. It might well be in a local park or so. I think it would be a terrible thing to have someone like him be displaced in an effort to occupy a good caching spot. This man is for sure a very rare exception, but a "solution" that forgets about him is no solution for me.

 

Jan

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First, you beat crime by getting rid of it from the bottom up, not from the top down. BTW, wars are won by drawing that hard line and enforcing your decisions.

 

I'm all for drawing a hard line. Show me a course of action that has a chance of improving the quality of life for everyone and I'll stand by it 100%. I don't enjoy homeless people. I'm not dropping by the local overpass to share a quart of Mad Dog and unwind at the end of the week. Something needs to be done but I fail to see jail and eviction from my town as a solution.

 

Second, How well you and I are doing has nothing to do with whether it is appropriate for others to live however they darn well please.

 

I enjoy the freedom to "live however I darn well please." Now if that means living a lifestyle of illegal activity then I expect the man to intervene. To me it's a matter of degree. Squatting is not exactly on the same level as say a really dangerous offence like drunk driving. I'm willing to bet most drunk drivers are un-house-less just like us. Who's really a nuisance here?

 

The first thing I thought of when I read this topic for the first time (again) is that I'm really happy that there are no 'homeless' people squatting in my home town. There have been, from time to time, but due to the diligence of the local police, they don't stay.

 

Remind me to thank your local police department for increasing the homeless population in my town.

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... I enjoy the freedom to "live however I darn well please." ...

This is the primary difference in our thinking. None of us have the 'freedom' that you are claiming. Every one of us is responsible to society and its laws. When you carve a portion of the population out of that responsibility you are not doing anyone a favor; not them, not you, and not me.

 

BTW, lets look at an extreme example for a moment. Take the extreme mentally ill homeless person who you now ignore. Imagine this poor soul robbing, raping, or killing someone. Anyone, it needs not be someone you know or love. Now imagine a town in which the police actively intervene to either get these people help or otherwise remove them from living where it is illegal for them to live.

 

I'll take my option over yours, any day.

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...Now imagine a town in which the police actively intervene to either get these people help or otherwise remove them from living where it is illegal for them to live.

If the help is really help, then this solution would be viable. But I wonder how often institutional help actually improves a given situation?

 

Removing them from living where it is illegal for them to live can usually be translated as temporary displacement; I suggest that when the houseless are legally removed from an illegal location, they probably just end up in another illegal location, thus solving nothing.

 

So what you're really saying is, "NIMBY!" :rolleyes::)

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As with all "social problems" there is no one solution and we have yet to reach the balance needed to affect this problem.

It is a mirror image of our society and being the escapist that I am my only wish is that we of the L5 society can find a propulsion system and get the heck off of this rock.

Probably not in my lifetime.

Oh well.

I agree with sbell.

no more posts to this thread.

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First, you beat crime by getting rid of it from the bottom up, not from the top down.  BTW, wars are won by drawing that hard line and enforcing your decisions.

 

Second, How well you and I are doing has nothing to do with whether it is appropriate for others to live however they darn well please.

The first part of this implies that the violent crimes are being committed by the homeless (or houseless as some prefer) which while true to a point - it is not the majority of the crimes...the BTK killer was well off...and that is just one example.

 

The second part of this implies that every homeless person chooses to live on the streets...obviously you do not live in a big city. Here in Detroit where factories are closing left and right and fast food doesnt pay enough to pay high costs of rent and the homeless shelters are so overcrowded there is not even room on the floor the homeless do not *choose* to be homeless. In addition, very few homeless shelters (including the ever discriminating Salvation Army) allow the homeless to remain during the day - they have no where else to go but the streets when they are turned away by the shelters when the sun rises! :D

 

I have been there...as a teenager thrown out by an uncaring family for differences in opinions...even the runaway shelter would not take me because I was not technically a runaway. So I reiterate don't lump all the homeless into one category until you know their story.

 

edited for clarification

Edited by ohgrl
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First, you beat crime by getting rid of it from the bottom up, not from the top down. BTW, wars are won by drawing that hard line and enforcing your decisions.

 

From that statement you are making the assumption that the homeless are criminals. From my 8 years in law enforcement I'll disagree. The only problems I ever had with the homeless was society complaining about them being in the public eye. It makes people feel better not to see them. Some people have a hard time with reality.

 

There are many types of homeless. Some brought it upon themselves, others were thrust into it by no fault of their own. It's the latter that I have sympathy for.

 

As far as squatting on public land...They have as much right to squat on that land as you do in placing a cache there.

 

I've also heard the term Hobo used. A Hobo is a wanderer that survives by doing odd jobs here and there. The term actually appeared aftert the civil war. They were called Hoe Boys. They traveled around the country living off what they could make hoeing peoples gardens because they had lost their homes during the war.

 

El Diablo

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From "The Straight Dope" on the origin of "hobo":

 

As usual, there are various theories: (1) bearing in mind that a hobo traditionally has been a migrant worker, not simply a vagrant, it comes from "hoe boy," a migratory farm worker. (2) It derives from the expression "hey, bo," bo being a sardonic corruption of the French word beau, a dandy. (3) It comes from "ho, boy," which was apparently what railroad mailhandlers in the northwestern U.S. yelled when they heaved mailbags off the trains.

 

Take your pick.

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They traveled around the country living off what they could make hoeing peoples gardens because they had lost their homes during the war.

Interesting. I've never heard this story of the traveling hoe-ers.

 

Oh, yeah. Back on topic - I say look for a different spot for your cache. Or go with briansnat's chipmunk outfit plan. Either way, I hope to someday geocache in your part of the country.

 

Are there snakes in the area? I'm not so big on snakes.

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First, you beat crime by getting rid of it from the bottom up, not from the top down.  BTW, wars are won by drawing that hard line and enforcing your decisions.

 

From that statement you are making the assumption that the homeless are criminals. From my 8 years in law enforcement I'll disagree. The only problems I ever had with the homeless was society complaining about them being in the public eye. It makes people feel better not to see them. Some people have a hard time with reality.

 

There are many types of homeless. Some brought it upon themselves, others were thrust into it by no fault of their own. It's the latter that I have sympathy for.

 

As far as squatting on public land...They have as much right to squat on that land as you do in placing a cache there.

 

I've also heard the term Hobo used. A Hobo is a wanderer that survives by doing odd jobs here and there. The term actually appeared aftert the civil war. They were called Hoe Boys. They traveled around the country living off what they could make hoeing peoples gardens because they had lost their homes during the war.

 

El Diablo

 

Finally, an intelligent, helpful, insightful post in a thread rife with ignorance, heartlessness and ire. Thanks, El Diablo, you singlehandedly helped lift the geocaching community here out of the cesspool.

 

To the majority of others here, who lack a single compassionate bone in their bodies, I hope you someday find yourself home-/houseless and watch as everyone spits on you, treats you like a two-bit criminal, ignores you like don't even exist, in essence categorizing you as less than human, a blight on their precious bourgeois existence.

 

Shame on you for caring more about a 35 mm film canister than an actual human being, a living person who's someone's son/daughter/brother/sister....

 

Best,

Mr. Wisearse.

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Second, How well you and I are doing has nothing to do with whether it is appropriate for others to live however they darn well please.

 

Hooray for intolerance! Human rights? Who needs those? They're only for people with money, 'cause if you don't have money, you certainly aren't human.

Edited by Tidalflame
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Closing the thread. Most of this became off-topic and belonged on the "Off Topic" board. I didn't learn much about the depopulation tactics involved in terraforming a site for a cache, but it did make me think about the dangers involved when placing a cache near a homeless camp.

 

We're the new comers to the game of hiding from society. We're doing it using a GPSr; they did it with Hobo Signs. While we're more precise, we're still playing on their turf. The next sport in hides will have future hiders start threads regarding "evicting those old pesky geocachers" so they can do THEIR hides.

 

I agree that I should find a new place to hide my cache; in fact, there's a spot not too far from my initial choice. As for my initial spot, I'm thinking of it as being too close to another's cache: This spot is taken.

 

Maybe my next thread will be about caching and a con stance on Civil Rights or Nuclear Proliferation.

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