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I think money has a lot to do with placing micros rather than a traditional cache. Like I said earlier...it's disheartning to place a well stocked cache just to comeback a month later and be tempted to dump the current contents in a CITO bag. :lol:

 

I do believe that micros have their plce in certain areas, and in those cases I enjoy hunting them. With the current guidelines of GC.com you can't place a cache within .10th of a mile of an exsisting cache. If you can't afford a traditional cache and you place a micro there....then you have done the community a disjustice.

 

I believe that a micro should be placed only when a traditional one can't due to the chance of mugggles. Of course using micros as a stage in a multiple is fine.

 

That is my personal opinion. I understand that not everyone will buy into it. I also don't want to see another rule introduced to inforce that opinion. I just want people to stop and think before placing any cache.

 

El Diablo

 

P.S Nice to see you again Brian. We are almost neighbors, maybe we can meet someday.

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I don’t really care for micros either. I will go look for them but not as fast. It all depends what kind of mood I am in. When I go place a cache I have a back pack with 3 different sizes in it. I will get a place in my head that I would like to place one and walk the trail till I find an area that I think is neat. I have 3 out of my 16 caches are micros. That’s only because they are in high traffic areas. I have about 107 finds. Out of that I found 5 that I would have to say that those were not well thought out caches. As was brought up about money might be tight for some folks when I started placing caches I bought my containers at rummage sales for next to nothing. I have not spent over $70 not including my GPSR. <not sure if I wrote that right. I have a lot of things for at least 25 caches total. I believe planning is the key. Some might disagree but if you take the time you can get a good set up of containers and items for next to nothing.

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Funny, with the number of TNLNSL, entries I see, obviously SWAG isn't the thing, I think the micro haters just mostly want the easy score of a big, hard to hide container

 

I rarely trade, but I do enjoy the anticipation of opening up the container and looking through the contents. The sucking sound that an ammo box makes when you open it is as much music to my ears as is the sound of somone opening a bottle of Sierra Nevada pale ale. :ph34r:

 

My chief complaint micros in the woods is that after a 2 mile hike I don't want spend 45 minutes peaking under every piece of bark looking for a needle in a haystack, nor do I think the added impact that the extended searching could cause is a good thing.

Edited by briansnat
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Can anyone else think of reasons?

:ph34r:

Scruffy's little heart eventually gave out from hypertension. But I did manage to clinically prove that dog-breath can be permanently cured.

 

I just feel it would be disrespectful to throw away three dozen Altoids tins, so this micro series is dedicated to my fresh-barking buddy, :D Scruffy. B)

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I took a nap, Is anything new been discussed in here? :D

 

nope. :ph34r:

 

I get that its somewhat cathartic to purge oneself in the forums. This is especially true if you feel strongly about an issue as the OP clearly does. However, given that this is a repeat of threads that are introduced on nearly a weekly basis and the fact that the OP chose to include the ever-so-witty 'Pass the Popcorn' line in the title, one has to wonder if the OP is just stirring the pot for the sake of the stirring. B)

 

Another theory on this thread is that it is just advertising for TC. This is certainly supported by the comment 'at one time I wrote an editorial in Today's Cacher explaining my belief about the explosion of micro caches...' in the opening salvo. B)

 

If you've gone on record with your feelings on numerous occasions, what's the point of this thread? Did you make a bet? B)

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I took a nap, Is anything new been discussed in here? :D

 

nope. :ph34r:

 

I get that its somewhat cathartic to purge oneself in the forums. This is especially true if you feel strongly about an issue as the OP clearly does. However, given that this is a repeat of threads that are introduced on nearly a weekly basis and the fact that the OP chose to include the ever-so-witty 'Pass the Popcorn' line in the title, one has to wonder if the OP is just stirring the pot for the sake of the stirring. B)

 

Another theory on this thread is that it is just advertising for TC. This is certainly supported by the comment 'at one time I wrote an editorial in Today's Cacher explaining my belief about the explosion of micro caches...' in the opening salvo. B)

 

If you've gone on record with your feelings on numerous occasions, what's the point of this thread? Did you make a bet? B)

Well not sure if I actually wrote an editorial or not...they kinda blend after a while. No advertisement for TC, I didn't even add a link to the magazine.

 

This actually came to mind after a weekend of caching with my wife...I gave her a new GPSMAP 60cs and we took it for a test drive.

 

I'm not trying to stir anything. I've been very pleased so far with the well thought out replies, wether they have been with me or against me. So far they have been very polite and civil. This is the way a debate should be. And actually the topic was Micros..pass the pocorn...I really wish a mod would fix that. B)

 

El Diablo

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When I hover over it, it does. Also, its spelled out under your name. :ph34r:

 

Face it, your pimping it pretty hard.

Wow...never realized that a mouse over would show what it was on the bottom of the screen.

 

Either way it's not what this topic is about...so please stay on topic.

 

Thanks!

El Diablo

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When driving long distances micros can be a great little diversion to help break up the day without having to take to much time with long walks in the woods.

But wouldn't the diversion be at least as good with a full-sized cache, in cases where one is possible? In fact, wouldn't it likely be a quicker stop, since it would probably be easier to find?

Yes but sometimes the micros can be put at gas stations and rest stops where you can't put bigger caches.

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When driving long distances micros can be a great little diversion to help break up the day without having to take to much time with long walks in the woods.

But wouldn't the diversion be at least as good with a full-sized cache, in cases where one is possible? In fact, wouldn't it likely be a quicker stop, since it would probably be easier to find?

Yes but sometimes the micros can be put at gas stations and rest stops where you can't put bigger caches.

Exactly.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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When driving long distances micros can be a great little diversion to help break up the day without having to take to much time with long walks in the woods.

But wouldn't the diversion be at least as good with a full-sized cache, in cases where one is possible? In fact, wouldn't it likely be a quicker stop, since it would probably be easier to find?

Yes but sometimes the micros can be put at gas stations and rest stops where you can't put bigger caches.

This thread isn't about those places, it's about places where a regular sized cache could be placed, but the hider takes the "less expensive" route and hides a micro instead

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I'm asking that if you can place a traditional, do so.

For what it's worth, I like micros. I only started encountering them this past winter/spring.

 

Why I like them is this:

 

1) they can be hidden in places that a traditional cache cannot, not to mention they can be creative with the use of

 

2) even in a "traditional" location, they're harder to find

 

3) for me, the location of the cache is the reward

 

I keep a stock of goodies to leave in traditional caches if I see somthing I like, but for me I cache to see places I might normally have gone and to log my visit. To me the rest of the cache is relatively unimportant. It's all about getting theer and seeing what there is to see.

 

Just my $.02

Edited by 2kxtra
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:ph34r: Micros are ok if a larger cache cannot be placed and if, a big if, they are placed in an interesting location. I will admit that we have searched for and found a lot of dumb urban micros (parking lot lamp posts) but they are not near as much fun as other caches. I will not totally knock urban micros because they are better than nothing. :D

I agree, but I've seen the same with traditional caches as well.

 

A few years ago when I started (and before taking a break due to life getting in the way), caches were far fewer and much more often in interesting locations. Now there are so many that some seem to be placed simply for the sake of placing them. Micro or not.

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I have not experienced any unbalanced ratio of micros where larger caches could have been hid, and I really don't buy the cheaper tack...at least not for me.

 

If there's a way to hide an ammo can, I would prefer to find a can full of goodies even though I rarely trade; I do find it fascinating to inspect what others believe to be tradable.

 

Having said that, I really don't care much what kind of cache I seeking, as long as it isn't a puzzle cache. :ph34r:B)

 

(BTW: I like micros!) :D

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...Another theory on this thread is that it is just advertising for TC.  This is certainly supported by the comment 'at one time I wrote an editorial in Today's Cacher explaining my belief about the explosion of micro caches...' in the opening salvo.  :D

Believe me. I've known Jerry long enough to know that if he wanted to plug Today's Cacher, he would have typed "Today's Cacher" into the headline. B)

 

But if you're confused about what TC is, feel free to click on the link in my signature. :ph34r:B)

 

And Jerry, I went back through all the old issues of Today's Cacher, and I couldn't find that editorial (although I recall you rambling about this sometime ago. B)B)

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My chief complaint with micros is that after a 2 block hike I don't want to spend 45 minutes scrounging under every piece of bark looking for a needle in a haystack. Further I think that the extended searching that micros often require, almost always causes damage to it's surroundings and that is a bad thing. While I most likely will hunt micros to some limited extent in the future, I will be very particular wrt their appropriateness.

Edited by Team Cotati
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My chief complaint with micros is that after a 2 block hike I don't want to spend 45 minutes scrounging under every piece of bark looking for a needle in a haystack. Further I think that the extended searching that micros often require, almost always causes damage to it's surroundings and that is a bad thing. While I most likely will hunt micros to some limited extent in the future, I will be very particular wrt their appropriateness.

Fortunately, I've run across very few micros hidden in the woods. I'll tolerate them if good satellite reception is available, and the coordinates are spot-on.

 

Otherwise, the hider needs a perspective adjustment and some education on how all this stuff works. :ph34r:

 

Even though I've grown weary of lampost and magnetic keyholder hides, they have their place, for beginners, urban areas, etc, as long as good satellite reception is available, and the coordinates are spot-on.

 

Oops, did I repeat myself?

 

The paragraph for "Step 3 - Placing Your Cache" in Geocaching.com's Hiding Your First Geocache guidelines would be relevant to my little rant. :D

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I don't see anything in the geocaching guidelines (or did I miss something) that states one type of cache is preferred over another. Why do people think they have to tell others what they should or should not hide?. That said most of my hides are micros but I do try to make them creative when possible and I do try to use the micro to show people an interesting place. My other half and I frequently will put hides fairly close to each other (over the .10 mi limit) and one will be a regular cache and one a micro. I do have one micro that is not in an interesting place at all but the container is VERY interesting and those who have hunted it so far have loved it, even micro haters. At some point in the future after it has been found by more I will post pictures of it, but let it suffice to say it is a hand crafted lifelike replica of something found in nature.

In my area the parks service welcomes geocaches BUT they have asked repeatedly that we NOT use ammo cans because of homeland security. I seriously doubt I would put a micro in the woods because that seems to me a perfect place for a regular cache, but I have put out micros in places I had intended to put a regular cache after more thought, like a cemetary with a history of vandalism.

I personally like evil creative micros, I find them challenging. For me a micro costs at least as much as a regular cache in many cases, (if not actual money at least in time spent creating the container) so money has nothing at all to do with it.

I think we would all do well to concentrate more on our own hides that on critisizing others. Hunt what you like and don't hunt what you don't like but don't complain about a hide while logging the find and taking the smiley.

 

Claudia

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It's easier to get your kids to come along if there is SWAG to be traded. I enjoy a good micro hunt, but hate it if it is after a long hike and it is difficult to find. In these cases I suggest a hint cache placed in an accessable location or at least a tree ribbon so I know I am in the right area. I'm getting tired of the guard rail magnetic key box micros .... use some imagination people!

 

Koikeeper and I did 2 caches in a crowded (with soccer teams) park. We found the traditional away from the crowd and avoided muggles. The micro was in a heavily muggled area but the cache was so cleverly disguised that we were able to find it, retrieve it, go elsewhere and sign the log, then replace it without being muggled. Great micro!

:ph34r: ImpalaBob

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I think both reasons. Some people want to make a HARD find so they place a micro in a spot that could hold a 5gallon bucket as an easy find. Some just don't want to be bothered with putting together a trad container. I like small as it is between the two and can offer some challenge. Though I make most my caches hard to get to but easier to find. Some day I may do both.

cheers

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So if this thread isn't just to pimp Today's Cacher, is it more for the pot stirring, or did you make a bet?  Really, you can tell us.  :D

I didn't sense The Pimp Conspiracy until you mentioned it, and as a result, I visited the link (but I've read Today's Cacher before so no harm done). :o

 

Back to the topic... about hides that are meant to be difficult, micro or not.

 

Evil hides are fun if the owner openly claims that the hide is such, but it's still tough to find. Typically, such hides employ creative/clever hide techniques.

 

There is a fine line for such a hide being clever, evil, or mean. Also, extended search time can attract attention from muggles and neighbors. Hopefully, hiders have taken the time to consider these factors first.

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I too would prefer to see little trinkets. But I can see why people use those little micros - cause they're harder to find and easier to hide. But I think members could probably find free tiny items to put in them. ? How about a Snail shell? Elastic bands? Look around your house - you'll probably find several tiny things to use. Caperbirder

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  •  
     
  • The lab was throwing out those cool nalgene cryo vials after they got most of the ebola samples out of them.
     
     

OH! I never thought about snagging a few cryovials!

 

Those would make GREAT micros! (unused vials of course) And nobody here would miss a handful of them, we use them by the hundreds. :D

 

 

What can I say? I live in a suburban/urban area and the few decent (not necessarily good) spots are already saturated. But there's some interesting history to be seen around here and such. And as such, I think micros are well suited to this area assuming, and this is always the key IMO, that it can be placed someplace worthwhile.

 

I'm not going to be one to place a cache, micro or otherwise, just for the sake of placing one. I'll place some to show others something I found interesting, or even unique.

Edited by 2kxtra
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Behind all this debate about micros vs this or that type of cache or this or that location lies the fundamental truth that nobody much cares what you like to find - each geocacher is gonna hide what he or she likes!

 

Once folks realize and deal with that there will be no further need for endless debate on this topic!

 

Ed

True that.

 

With that I bow out of this thread.

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A couple years ago a new cacher placed a few hides in a nearby town. After I did them she emailed me asking me for my opinion. Well, she asked, right?

 

One of her hides required a .25 mile walk down a rough, overgrown abandoned railroad trail (tracks removed). When I got there I saw plenty of great spots to hide a full-sized cache but finally found the cache. It was one of those small round Altoid tins.

 

I wrote her and asked why she didn't place a full-sized cache in such a remote and well-hidden area. Such a cache would not likely be accidentally found and would be very useful for moving travelbugs. Her response was that she just didn't have the money to invest in a full-sized hide.

 

Last time I checked, a pack of Altoids runs about $2.00. Small Rubbermaid-like containers can be bought for half that at dollar stores. People give away memo pads all the time and you can stock a cache with useless trinkets for next to nothing.

 

I wonder how often this is the mentality when hiding a micro.

 

Bret

I'd rather find a micro than a free container with a pad of post-its (probably stolen from work) and some freebie stuff in it.

If you can't pop for a $.39 cent spiral note pad you need to find another hobby. The log is the cache, one thing generaly agreed on by all, make it durable enough to last. Those free note pads wind up as a pile of loose paper in the cache. Since most Micro are just the log it's less confusing.

 

Location, location, location.

 

Whatever the cache type put it someplace interesting.

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In the Raleigh (NC) area, we have a pleasant mix of all sizes, hide types & difficulty levels - it is a great place to hunt. The micros are here, plenty of them, but the hides are creative, even the hateful ones in the woods bring a fun challenge that makes the find rewarding.

 

I tend to love them all . . . the truth is (& I wonder if everyone else does this), I rarely if ever look in an ammo can for more than a log to sign, everything else is "me too", seen it before, don't want it, don't need it & not interesting.

 

Well, there was one - one with maps from all over the world . . . sat there for an hour reading maps - a neat cache. But these are so rare that one simply leaves for the next cache, so it might as well be a micro.

 

My point is . . . as to contents, if you can't make it unique, special, creative, interesting - then, make it a micro!!

 

Granpa Alex

Edited by GRANPA ALEX
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Hi Jerry. i pop in everyonce in a while when I get a chance.

 

Someone said something here that caught my attention. About the cost. Is the reason of not liking the micros because of the size(not holding junk), the cost, or the appearance that it was easier to hide? I find fault with any of those. Actually it doesn't matter what kind of cache it is. If it's crappy, it's crappy. If a person isn't going to take the time to hide a nice micro, then their traditional is probably gonna suck too. I would have to say that honestly of the caches I've found, that about only 5% were what I would call good caches, considering the placement, the contents, the maintenance, etc. And most of those were probably newer caches. On the cost, I don't think that should even come into play. There's no limit on what pay or to put into a cache. AS someone else said, all we will do is complain about people trading crap or not trading at all and taking the good stuff. Micros are not necessarily easier to hide. They do tend to offer a little more thought and effort to disguise over placing an ammo can behind a rock or in a stump.

 

My thoughts are don't sway your opinion on the size of the cache, but more towards a crappy cache. Lets get onto these folks that don't maintain their caches.

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Ok, for my bit on this oft run over topic that just keeps people coming back for more...

 

First, size shouldn't be the first priority, it should be the last. The first three considerations should be location, location, and location. After those three are considered then the later can be determined by what suits the former.

 

It has been mentioned that money is probably the primary reason for the high number of micros. I agree this is probably true in many cases, but it is only so because of ignorance. A traditional cache doesn't have to cost a bundle. Good containers can be purchased for under $2. Supplies can be picked up at thrift stores and dollar stores. A regular sized cache can be put together for $3-$5 quite easily. The log notifications that it brings will last much longer and be more satisfying than a drink at a bar or a couple packs of cigs. So I don't buy into the cost issue. That excuse is more lame than a light pole film can in my opinion.

 

That brings us to the next reason that micros are so prevalent - numbers. Some people use numbers to support their ego and self esteem. No further comment other than to acknowledge that it is true. (Now let the flames burst forth) <_<

 

It has been thoroughly documented that one of the main detractions of micros is the flood of them. In many areas 60-75 percent of new listings are for micro containers. Yes I know how to ignore caches, but new and/or inexperienced cachers don't tend to sign up as premium members right away. I have seen many people join and log a few caches and then quit because micros are not what was advertised when they heard about the game. Most medium to large cities are blanketed with micro caches, and new users can have a hard time filtering these out because they aren't premium members, or they just don't know how. New members that stick around a while tend to start hiding micros because that is what they are finding, so the trend just snowballs.

 

Cache caravans are fun even when finding lame micros. But at that point it is less about the caching and more about the socializing. If this socialization is causing deterioration of the overall quality of the game then maybe it should be saved for events and not the individual hides. Hides that are made solely for justifying cache runs are dumbing down the game and making it less attractive to both new and experienced cachers.

 

To end on a positive note, there is justification for micro caches. The main thing that I like about micros is when they bring me to a neat place I could not have visited because there is no where to hide a larger cache. This is often the case in urban jungles. Also, when I am traveling micro caches can provide an entertaining historical and POI tour of an area. And finally, micro caches are often the most available type of cache for ADA accessible caches, and that is not a point to be missed.

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One point that I failed to mention in my previous post. There is a certain breed of micro caches that I think should be outlawed. Supposedly these are not to be, but I have seen very little moderation by the general community or the approvers.

 

I have seen micros hidden in containers and such a manner as to encourage or force people to harm and significantly damage the environment. This has been caused by digging up grass around the cache, destroying ground cover that prevents erosion, destroying bushes and landscape beds, destroying rock walls, etc.

 

Yes, you can mention it in the log and even suggest that the cache needs archiving, but I have found that usually breeds contempt and not improvement. If you think that people are going to hunt with care then you are living in a pipe dream. Caches need to be hidden with this in mind.

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I personally think the only proper way to convince geocachers to hide caches in the style you prefer is to hide caches of that style. I really enjoy micros, even tough micros hidden in the woods where a full sized cache could have been. It is the diversity of cache types that keeps me going. I bet if there were only full sized caches, I may have tired of this pastime a long time ago. They generally make boring hunts (unless the terrain or navigation is a challenge.) Regular sized caches are a big challenge to place in a manner that makes them difficult to find, especially if you rule out "ivy" style hides.

 

Please don't tell me what I should be hiding (size, type, etc.), that will just limit my creativity. Show me by example what you like. If I like it, I will probably follow suit.

 

(This is not to imply that the OP, or any other person who has posted in this thread doesn't already lead by example. It is also just my personal opinion.)

 

--Marky

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95% of your 98 caches were crappy? And you're still here? Why?

I have a 117 cache finds. And yes I would say about only 5% were what I would say were good or better than average.

I liked this quote. I think by definition, at least 50% of your finds would be as good or better than average. <_< Are you really saying that you only enjoyed 5% of your finds? I found 30 or so caches this weekend. Looking back, I can't really think of any that I didn't enjoy. I wasn't hand picking them either, I was away from home, just going to the nearest cache on my GPS. Good times.

 

--Marky

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I personally think the only proper way to convince geocachers to hide caches in the style you prefer is to hide caches of that style. I really enjoy micros, even tough micros hidden in the woods where a full sized cache could have been. It is the diversity of cache types that keeps me going. I bet if there were only full sized caches, I may have tired of this pastime a long time ago. They generally make boring hunts (unless the terrain or navigation is a challenge.) Regular sized caches are a big challenge to place in a manner that makes them difficult to find, especially if you rule out "ivy" style hides.

 

Please don't tell me what I should be hiding (size, type, etc.), that will just limit my creativity. Show me by example what you like. If I like it, I will probably follow suit.

 

(This is not to imply that the OP, or any other person who has posted in this thread doesn't already lead by example. It is also just my personal opinion.)

 

--Marky

I agree!

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