Geojeeping?

February 22, 2005

I've just read this article on todays cacher (www.todayscacher.com)

http://www.todayscacher.com/2005/feb/outdoor.asp

Don't get me wrong,I'm all for opening up the great outdoors to people,but surely this is going too far?

I could wax lyrical about how lazy some people are and how they won't leave the comfort of their vehicles,but the real worry for me is how long before places that are renowned for their wilderness and tranquility become full of whooping, 4x4 and motorcross riders/drivers? (delete and insert mode of transport as applicable!)

Not to mention the damage to the surrounding enviroment? I guess that I'm not the only person that has seen the mess that a track or pathway turns into after it becomes popular with greenlaners...

Imagine the situation: The sun's out and the birds are singing.In fact everything's well with the world.You've managed to get out and the pressures and worries of the working week are leaving you.Suddenly the high rev of an engine fills the air and causes wildlife for miles to scatter,churning the delicate ground into a muddy mess. All this and in a National Forest too!

More to the point,will the puzzle of trying to find a cache in a remote spot be somwhat spoiled is there are a mass of tyre marks leading right to it?

1.1k · February 22, 2005

Didn't we do the whole 4x4 / horse / walking pole who does the most damage to the countryside thing a couple of weeks ago?

Having said that, I think using a 4x4 takes all the fun out of driving as close as possible to your objective (says the man who once tried to cross a 2' deep ford in a standard vauxhall astra - only got 1/4 the way across!)

February 22, 2005

Didn't we do the whole 4x4 / horse / walking pole who does the most damage to the countryside thing a couple of weeks ago?

Sorry-I didn't read that thread...But I still think it's a valid point!

1.1k · February 22, 2005

I agree that it is a valid point, and I hate to see what used to be a nice green bridleway turned into sludge. But I can also see that there should be places where people can use their recreational 4x4s.

3.9k · February 22, 2005

I think there's a big cultural gap here between the American way of looking at things (big country, lots of wilderness to go round, outdoors/pioneer tradition, cheap gas, etc) and the European/British version (not much green space, need to share it with ramblers, vague feeling of guilt about "the environment" - whatever that is, etc etc).

Looking at the photo on the article page, I don't think that they're likely to make the place look much more "churned up" than it already is. But if they tried it in the New Forest they would be considered pretty anti-social :surprise:

Edited February 22, 2005 by sTeamTraen

February 22, 2005

I agree that it is a valid point, and I hate to see what used to be a nice green bridleway turned into sludge. But I can also see that there should be places where people can use their recreational 4x4s.

Agreed. I just hope Jeeocaching is kept separate to Geocaching so we don't have to wade through more mud than is necessary.

2.2k · February 22, 2005

Is greenlaning legal, so far as I can see it is.

I would not wish to participate however i would defend somones choice to do it if they wish.

I would be more worried about this type of caching Nudecacher

February 22, 2005

I think there's a big cultural gap here between the American way of looking at things (big country, lots of wilderness to go round, outdoors/pioneer tradition, cheap gas, etc) and the European/British version (not much green space, need to share it with ramblers, vague feeling of guilt about "the environment" - whatever that is, etc etc).

Looking at the photo on the article page, I don't think that they're likely to make the place look much more "churned up" than it already is. But if they tried it in the New Forest they would be considered pretty anti-social

From an American perspective I think this is true. These pictures were taken in the 200,000 acre Osceola National Forest in north Florida (for more picture of the caching adventure go here ). There are trails for hiking, horseback riding and 4X4.

3.9k · February 22, 2005

I would be more worried about this type of caching Nudecacher

Check out his gallery - gives a whole new, non-military meaning to "strategic placement of ammunition boxes".

24.7k · February 22, 2005

One of the rules of trials is that you have to stay on the trail even if that means a big mudhole. It prevents braiding.

Traveling in groups is a safety thing. Should the jeep suddenly get swallowed hole by the mudhole or it's front axle break there are others who can give them a helping hand.

Have no fear in the USA there are people who wish humans didn't exist, let alone get on trails and enjoy nature. Locally some go as far as to say that anything with a motor is too loude and it disrupts their bubble of natural sounds from great distances so not only should they not share trails but they should be the sole people on them. Nevermind that there are non motorized only trails (but never vice versa).

I've heard one person tell me that they didn't like their view intereuppted by the linse in the hills. Those are of course trails for all users but since she didn't use them they were just visual ugly and should be gone. Some people would do that.

In my opinion if the human race ever looses it's ability to use the "Kings forest" for it's enjoyment of natural space you might as well plow it up and farm it. If it does nobody any good, then it might as well contribute to the tax roles and help pay for urban walkays. How to share that natural space is up to debate, a lot of debate.

February 22, 2005

Here we go again!

Any comments about 4x4's should be carefully assessed! along with other modes of transport as well as by foot!

I suggest that the author of this thread should go back over past posts and check views and opinions out.

I disagree with illegal use of byways etc, but endorse sensible behaviour of users!

You will see my opinion and why I Jeeocache as you put it if you search my threads.

Vivien

Roving Rangies (and proud of it!)

February 22, 2005

You will see my opinion and why I Jeeocache as you put it

I'm just quoting the term as I read it from the magazine...

Something tells me that I've touched on a sensitive subject with the Roving Rangies and others.I apologise if I have offended them.

I have nothing against 4x4/motocycle drivers/owners (being one myself)or any other person going rallying,trials riding,cross country,greenlaning,enduro,moto-cross,speed trials or whatever. I suppose that I like to escape to the countryside for peace,quiet and tranquility.

Maybe I'm naive,butI don't see the car/motorbike/quad or whatever being part of that,and that's one of the main reasons for geocaching in my view.

Edited February 22, 2005 by thunderbird30

February 22, 2005

Is greenlaning legal, so far as I can see it is.

I would not wish to participate however i would defend somones choice to do it if they wish.

I would be more worried about this type of caching Nudecacher

Yeah, it much more reasurring to watch two tons of metal rip a path to shreds and pollute the area than to face the fact that people have genitals, *sigh*.

February 22, 2005

Fine if you have the use of your lower limbs, rucksack on back to walk a few miles. Please do not forget those who are not so fit, or have no use of their lower limbs. Should the latter be forced just to geocache at suggested easily accessable caches, or to sit in a vehicle in a carpark for a few hours whilst the rest of their friends troll up the lanes. There are Green lanes. byways that get close to caches to enable the less able of us to join in the fun. Horrors, Geocaching on Bicycles will be next for complaint soon. It is well known that walking boots destroy footpaths too. As long as the use of any vehicle or item is used sensibly in the enviroment 'carry on Geocaching'

2.2k · February 22, 2005

Is greenlaning legal, so far as I can see it is.

I would not wish to participate however i would defend somones choice to do it if they wish.

I would be more worried about this type of caching Nudecacher

Yeah, it much more reasurring to watch two tons of metal rip a path to shreds and pollute the area than to face the fact that people have genitals, *sigh*.

It was meant as humour

Talking of polution though, most people drive to caches myself included. How enviromenatly friendly can we say this game is.

2.2k · February 23, 2005

i can see both sides on this one suffering from chronic fatigue like i do. personally i want to try out a qpod. quad bike with roll cage!! great toy! then you don't do much damage (which responsible 4x4's don't do by the way) but you can get to the remote caches.

like most things it's the idiots who cause damage not the thing they use.

we're as envoiromentally friendly as some and more than others what with cito etc. until we all go ack to the horse and cart can't see what the problem is?

1.2k · February 23, 2005

Yeah, it much more reasurring to watch two tons of metal rip a path to shreds and pollute the area than to face the fact that people have genitals, *sigh*.

I hope you'd never see a 4wd on a path, however a greenlane is effectively a road that got missed out when they dished out the tarmac.

I'm not sure of the exact stats, but I gather there are something like 80,000 miles of footpath (+ Right to Roam), 15000 miles of bridlepath and 1600 miles of greenlane in the UK .

The 'good' 4wders who follow the rules already have access to only a small percentage of the available routes for walkers and mainly drive in as gentle a fashion as possible.

The 'bad' 4wders who go on other tracks should be educated, not used as 'typical examples'.

There are walkers who climb over dry stone walls damaging the walls and ancient lichens, who tresspass, pick rare wild flowers, widen paths to skirt puddles etc.

I wouldn't characterise all walkers as damaging to the environment.

I don't have a 4wd, but I do feel the 4wders get a pretty hard time brought on by a few rogue drivers.

Oddly enough, it seems to me that if you have a 4wd and don't drive it off road you are mocked and if you do you are damned.

1.7k · February 23, 2005

Just a polite request at this point. Could we refrain from having another full blown "discussion" about the rights and wrongs of the use of 4WD vehicles. The issue has been fully explored in the recent past with no real conclusions being reached. The only effect was to antagonise a number of valued cachers and I wouldn't like that to happen again.

Thanks folks, now get out and enjoy the snow

1.7k · February 23, 2005

Thanks folks, now get out and enjoy the snow

You've got Snow? Come to sunny Wales, it's nice and dry here

Dave

2.2k · February 23, 2005

Thanks folks, now get out and enjoy the snow

Cannot get out and enjoy the snow the four letter word keeps getting in the way.

Live and let Live, some want to do numbers caching , some want to green lane some want to cache in the nude.

Bit cold for the nude caching for me but each to their own.

1.2k · February 23, 2005

No snow here either, need loads and loads to prevent me having to drive to Kent on Friday.

Happy to be moderately moderated.

February 23, 2005

Nobby nobbs, you've been talking to Vivian haven't you! If you want a go in a Qpod just ask. They are great fun, just waiting for the snow now. .

Gary

February 23, 2005

I wouldn't characterise all walkers as damaging to the environment.

And what about the enviroment damageing the walkers eh! All I done was plant a pesky cache.. ROFLMAO

2.2k · February 24, 2005

Nobby nobbs, you've been talking to Vivian haven't you! If you want a go in a Qpod just ask. They are great fun, just waiting for the snow now. .
Gary

oh that is a very tempting offer. but before i commit myself. how adjustable are the seats? think 6'7'' bloke most of which is in the legs 37''. potential comedy photos in the offering!

so are they as much fun as they look?

no snow here in new forest. today's the day they recon. mind you they've said that for the last week not that they don't over do it now since that little prob with the hurricane! better to be accused of exageration than complacency.

i wonder if i can get the forestry commision to let me cache in the forest with a qpod? somehow i think not! :unsure:

February 24, 2005

Umm.....that could be a tight fit Me and "Noel" are both a little behind in the growing race so it's no problem for us There is more room with the doors off so in summer you may just fit in then.

It would be ideal in the forest (on the roads of course) as it only does 45 mph and is just over a meter wide! 60 mpg though

February 24, 2005

Umm.....that could be a tight fit Me and "Noel" are both a little behind in the growing race so it's no problem for us There is more room with the doors off so in summer you may just fit in then.
It would be ideal in the forest (on the roads of course) as it only does 45 mph and is just over a meter wide! 60 mpg though

You two thought you could get away with this conversation without me?

I want a qpod, but Gary won't let me have one, he says NO MORE CARS!

Ever go near the Bustard Inn on Salisbury Plain?

2.3k · February 24, 2005

we are members of our local 4x4 club and go out greenlaning

and now we are geocachers

we have been out greenlaning and gone past hikers who have waved there hands in front of their faces going pooh pooh pooh at us

but one thing i will say is that the 4x4 clubs have fought and petitoned to keep the greenlanes open for every one to use

i reckon each to their own............what ever floats your boat ect ect ect

you get on with what you enjoy and let others do what they enjoy

February 25, 2005

we are members of our local 4x4 club and go out greenlaning

and now we are geocachers

we have been out greenlaning and gone past hikers who have waved there hands in front of their faces going pooh pooh pooh at us

but one thing i will say is that the 4x4 clubs have fought and petitoned to keep the greenlanes open for every one to use

i reckon each to their own............what ever floats your boat ect ect ect

you get on with what you enjoy and let others do what they enjoy

I would love anyone go Pooh!, Pooh! by my car! It omits less toxic fumes than a horse!, Why? cos it runs on LPG!

Infact it uses less LPG on a days trip out, than what an earnest gas Barbequer uses to cook his meal with. Now who's GREEN

2.2k · February 25, 2005

i suppose the only thing going for the horse is that when it dies it's a lot easier to recycle!! but nowhere near as much fun though.

qpod. i had the feeling that i'd have trouble fitting in. 45mph no probs as 40mph speed limit and 60mpg. i wonder if you could run one of them on lpg?

talking of gas bbq's i hope you don't use lpg from the canisters? i mean it would be terrible to do so and not be paying the vat! no vat on domestic fuel unlike for cars.....not that i'm suggesting anything.

couldn't have qpod on it's own. dad's wheel chair wouldn't fit!

my daughter would love it though. she still moans that is houldn't have sold my mini.

February 25, 2005

Sorry to hear that Vivien If you see us out on the plain come on over and have a go, might change Gary's mind

Been to the Bustard a couple of times from the North past the sign post in the middle of the impact zone showing which way to Devizes and Salisbury! Always makes me chuckle that.

My favorit road/lane is from Gore Cross to Westbury (fly my kite there). Great views over North Wilts.

3.9k · February 25, 2005

talking of gas bbq's i hope you don't use lpg from the canisters? i mean it would be terrible to do so and not be paying the vat! no vat on domestic fuel unlike for cars.....not that i'm suggesting anything.

Not only no VAT, but also no excise duty ! In Holland there is no excise duty at all on LPG (there is VAT though, and on domestic fuel), so it's dirt cheap. They get some of it back by doubling the equivalent of road fund tax, and that's already about double the UK level without LPG, but after that it's all gravy, LPG's about 20p a litre there last time I checked.

Or you could run your diesel car on cooking oil. Top Gear showed a bloke who uses oil from local restaurants (you can tell if it's fish and chips or samosas by the smell from the exhaust !). He reckoned it cost about 3p per litre... "plus of course I pay the 30p duty", he said. Jeremy Clarkson turned to the camera and put on his most serious face... "Yes", he said, "It's most important to remember to pay the duty". ROFL !!

1.7k · February 25, 2005

Or you could run your diesel car on cooking oil. Top Gear showed a bloke who uses oil from local restaurants (you can tell if it's fish and chips or samosas by the smell from the exhaust !). He reckoned it cost about 3p per litre... "plus of course I pay the 30p duty", he said. Jeremy Clarkson turned to the camera and put on his most serious face... "Yes", he said, "It's most important to remember to pay the duty". ROFL

Do a google for Biodiesel, and as anyone who uses Biodiesel will tell you, if your stoped by HMCE, and found to have non taxed fuel in your tank, they will do you for the duty due on the total miles your vehicle has done. Just think having to pay duty on 100,000 miles of fuel. If you buy diesel in France each litre contains 5% biodiesel..

Dave, my next car will be a diesel, and run on 100% Biodiesel

:huh:

February 25, 2005

talking of gas bbq's i hope you don't use lpg from the canisters?

Gas BBq's ? now that gets my goat more than anything else!! why don't you just cook the flippin stuff in the oven? The whole 'thing' about bbq's is the taste of what you cook the stuff on.....cherry wood,whisky soaked oak etc-but not gas..........!

3.9k · February 25, 2005

Do a google for Biodiesel, and as anyone who uses Biodiesel will tell you, if your stoped by HMCE, and found to have non taxed fuel in your tank, they will do you for the duty due on the total miles your vehicle has done. Just think having to pay duty on 100,000 miles of fuel. If you buy diesel in France each litre contains 5% biodiesel..

Same here in France, if they find you with domestic heating fuel (or any trace of the dye it contains) in the tank.

I didn't know about the 5% biodiesel - but then I think oil burners are the work of the devil, although about 70% of cars sold in France are now diesel. However, driving round Germany I notice that more or less every service station now has biodiesel pumps as well as regular diesel. It's about 4-5p per litre cheaper.

6.2k · February 25, 2005

Pah. My 1971 Bond Bug (ask your dad) did 100mpg in a road test in 1970 and I still got 60mpg ish out of it, even with a 850cc engine (the original was a 700cc). Who needs diesel when you can have classic petrol motoring in a 3-wheeled fibreglass death-trap?

SP

P.S. I've heard of farmers using 'agricultural diesel' intended to be used by vehicles not used on the public road being prosecuted for sticking it in their landrovers and doing the school run with it. It's red, apparently.

1.7k · February 25, 2005

P.S. I've heard of farmers using 'agricultural diesel' intended to be used by vehicles not used on the public road being prosecuted for sticking it in their landrovers and doing the school run with it. It's red, apparently.

Agri diesel has a red dye in it, put a couple of litres in your tank, and traces of the dye will still be there, hundreds of litres later, thats what HMCE test for. Its also what the provos sell as cheep diesel, they buy it take it over the border and wash the colour out (but not the traces of the dye), transport it back over the border and sell it cheep.

Dave

3.9k · February 25, 2005

Its also what the provos sell as cheep diesel, they buy it take it over the border and wash the colour out (but not the traces of the dye), transport it back over the border and sell it cheep.

Surely not. You'll be telling us they rob banks next.

1.7k · February 25, 2005

Surely not. You'll be telling us they rob banks next.

Sorry I can't comment on that having never been in a bank when it was robbed, I can comment on the doddgy diesel from personal experience though (even though I was under instructions not to open my mouth at the time, English accent would not have gone down well :huh: ).

Dave

February 25, 2005

Surely not. You'll be telling us they rob banks next.

Sorry I can't comment on that having never been in a bank when it was robbed, I can comment on the doddgy diesel from personal experience though (even though I was under instructions not to open my mouth at the time, English accent would not have gone down well ).

Dave

By the way, to keep on topic, is there any caches that can only be got by a boat?

How about this for ironic!

You can buy LPG from a gas station to put in your car, you can buy LPG from a chandler to put in your boat, yet you can't put LPG from a chandler in your car, yet they are happy for you to LPG from a gas station in your boat!

I know, as I had a run in with Custom and Exsise at Poole harbour about wanting to buy gas for my car from a boat yard.

They said cos I wasn't a boat and not in the water, I could not buy it. I asked where the slipway was, as I was prepared to wait for low tide, drive down the slipway and park in the harbour so I could get Gas. They then got very shirty and suggested I left the Harbour area!

Edited February 25, 2005 by Roving Rangies

2.3k · February 25, 2005

And the moral of this story is....we are being ripped off by the GVNMT.

End of story and good night!

3.9k · February 25, 2005

For the moment, until they can work out a way to put coloured liquids into propane/butane mixtures, restricting the sale of LPG is the only way to force you to pay the tax. That said, far fewer cars in the UK can run on LPG than can run on biodiesel or vegetable oil.

If electric cars ever got popular, assuming they were home-rechargeable (in practice it's more likely that you'd swap batteries at a service station, it seems), they'd have to find some way to charge you 4x more for the electricity that goes into your car than what you use for your hot water...

1.7k · February 26, 2005

If electric cars ever got popular, assuming they were home-rechargeable

Reminds me of the ultimate urban caching vehicle, one that no muggle would pay attention during the day :huh: the 150 mph Milk float :cry: it was actualy clocked at 156mph on a disused airfield.

Dave

2.3k · February 26, 2005

Might I draw everyone's attention to the fact that Diesel was lauded as environmentally friendly and so the government coerced consumers and thus manufacturers in to the greatest mistake and then fined them by levying higher taxes on the 'road-use' fuel!

Mark my words if (and I doubt we will be conned again) LPG becomes 'popular' then taxes will increase multi-fold.

P.S. Isn't this falling off-topic somewhat?

Edited February 26, 2005 by The Hokesters

6.2k · February 26, 2005

By the way, to keep on topic, is there any caches that can only be got by a boat?

Back on topic* - hooray!

I know of three caches that can only be reached by boat - because I set them with Dan Wilson in Oxford last summer. There must be some others though. What about the ones on the Isle of Wight?

SP

*Ish.

Edited February 26, 2005 by Simply Paul

1.2k · February 26, 2005

Check out Dysdera's profile, the ones with high terrain difficulty would pretty much all find a boat/canoe at least useful.

March 2, 2005

Geojeeping could be a major problem for Geocachers as a whole.

I work for one of the Wildlife Trusts and i am looking at placing caches on some of our reserves - i know of some really nice spots that will make perfect caches. However in researching the idea i have already come across some trusts that have problems with vechiles on their land as a result of caching (bearing in mind reserves often contain very rare and fragile habitats and wildlife). These Trusts have now decided to remove any caches they find.

just the add to the problems the cache they had problems with was also buried, meaning big sections of reserve were regulary being dug up and there was no permission sought from the land owner at any time.

If geojeepers stick to tracks where they have legal access then i can't see much of a problem but as soon as they go 'off road' or on non officail routes then they may find that all caches are banned from the land owners property. this could inculde Wildlife trusts, RSPB, Forestry Commision etc etc. As this organisations become more aware of caches on their land and of damage cuased they will also become more active in hunting them down and removing them - possibly even prosecuting people.

Any comprisons to geojeeping in America are in my mind completly irelevent as the situtaions are completely different. a jeep won't cause much damage to a 3000 hectares site, but will cuase considerable damage to a 30 hectares site.

Geocahcers need to be responbile for their actions in the countryside and work with organisations where possible to ensure this great sport continues to grow and be enjoyed by others - or you will caching becomes increasingly difficult.

2.2k · March 3, 2005

well said but on the whole i'd say most are responsible enough to follow normal rules and any additional rules due to the landowners.

and as regards burying cache. there are rules about that!

english nature are slowly coming onboard. who are the organisation you're chatting with? where?

just be very clear that most of us follow rules. there's always some git willing to ruin it for everyone. same applies to any group of people.

1.7k · March 3, 2005

becca&dan have a look here at the Pinned resources page at the top of the uk page. You'll find a Introduction To Geocaching, a very usefull document to give to those concerned, it just explains geocaching and the guidelines in simple terms, and has been used to great affect, when requesting permission off land owners.

Dave

March 3, 2005

I have to say that i think Geojeeping is a great idea, there are lots of caches (and trigs) which appear on White roads in the UK. most of these have "unsuitable for motors" signs on them, but these are public roads so in theory drivers can go down them. Geojeeping could be done on such roads!

March 3, 2005

I have to say that i think Geojeeping is a great idea, there are lots of caches (and trigs) which appear on White roads in the UK. most of these have "unsuitable for motors" signs on them, but these are public roads so in theory drivers can go down them. Geojeeping could be done on such roads!

There is one such road in Wiltshire, also one in Wales that I know of!

Once on the White road, you are committed to complete it till the end!

Geojeeping?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment