+dingermcduff Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I've only placed a couple of caches, and I've run into trouble... I like to use metal containers. They're durable and I think they give a better caching experience than a plastic container. Problem is, it's hard to come by ammo cans and first aid kits around here at a decent price. I wanted to try using a Pepperidge Farm Pirhouettes tin for a cache, but I was afraid it would either leak or rust. So I painted the tin inside and out with a rust-proofing paint and it looks pretty nice. Does anyone have experience with these containers after they have been painted? Do they usually leak or rust or worse? How about other metal cache containers that work well? Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 IF you like ammo cans, why not just order some from cheaper than dirt. The link takes you to the page to order a 6 pack of .30 cal cans for $19.97 plus shipping. Quote Link to comment
+CompuCash Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 check out your local Dollar store - great place for cache containters of all sizes as well as some pretty cool grade goodies to put in it. While yer there, check out the pens and pads too. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I wanted to try using a Pepperidge Farm Pirhouettes tin for a cache, but I was afraid it would either leak or rust. So I painted the tin inside and out with a rust-proofing paint and it looks pretty nice. I'm sure it looks great but I don't think that's going to work out for you in the long run. You may have solved or at least slowed down the rust problem, but it will most defiantly leak. Don't completely throw out the idea of using a good Rubbermaid container or even better, a Lock & Lock container. I'll reiterate what IV said, cheaperthandirt.com is a great site for ammo cans. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 check out your local Dollar store - great place for cache containters of all sizes as well as some pretty cool grade goodies to put in it. While yer there, check out the pens and pads too. Generally the Dollar stores around here have crap for cache containers. I did find in a dollar section of a grocery store knock off Lock & Locks that so far seem to be every bit as good as the real thing. Quote Link to comment
+dingermcduff Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 (edited) I may just have to order some ammo cans--do you know if they carry .50 cal? I've never really cared for finding the plastic containers. They just have a 'disposable' feel to me. I've never seen a Lock and Lock container--I'll do a search. I'm pretty sure I won't be doing the Rubbermaid thing though. Up here in Minnesota I worry about freezing temperatures and bears destroying the plastic stuff. Edited August 22, 2004 by dingermcduff Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Yeah, they've got several choices. It just seems, around here at least, that .30 caliber are more common, and those are sold in lots of 6 on there, so that's what I linked to. Quote Link to comment
+Mr Smiles Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Your cookie tin rustproofed inside and out would be a custom cache and unique container. So what if it doesn't last 15 years? Plan on replacing it every couple of years and give it a try! Mr Smiles Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Your cookie tin rustproofed inside and out would be a custom cache and unique container. So what if it doesn't last 15 years? Plan on replacing it every couple of years and give it a try! Mr Smiles 15yrs? I've found them (minus the nice paint) and they didn't last 15 days. They really are not watertight, and the paint wont stay on where you open and close it, so those spots rust right up and then you cant even open it. Quote Link to comment
+dingermcduff Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 The lid on the tin fits pretty tightly. Do you think there might be something I could put around the rim and the lid edge that would help it seal better and keep it from rusting shut? Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I've never seen a Lock and Lock container Here ya go. Quote Link to comment
+dingermcduff Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Do they work in very cold climates? They look like bear food to me. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 The lid on the tin fits pretty tightly. Do you think there might be something I could put around the rim and the lid edge that would help it seal better and keep it from rusting shut? I've tried using weather stripping around some containers but no matter what I use to adhere it, it always seems to split, tear, get removed and eventually leak. Whatever you do, don't put the container is a bag of any kind. That never turns out well. Go with your initial instinct regarding ammo cans. Quote Link to comment
+Torry Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Your cookie tin rustproofed inside and out would be a custom cache and unique container. So what if it doesn't last 15 years? Plan on replacing it every couple of years and give it a try! Mr Smiles 15yrs? I've found them (minus the nice paint) and they didn't last 15 days. They really are not watertight, and the paint wont stay on where you open and close it, so those spots rust right up and then you cant even open it. Ditto! Also they never seal well after the first few dings and dents and are rarely very waterproof. Also don't forget that you'll get condensation INSIDE the tin that I've seen cause corrosion as metal objects interact inside. Check your local yellow pages for an army surplus store or keep an eye on yard sales. Some gun shops and tackle shops may have ammo boxes as well. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 check out your local Dollar store - great place for cache containters of all sizes as well as some pretty cool grade goodies to put in it. While yer there, check out the pens and pads too. Do not buy cache containers at the dollar store, unless you want to visit every few weeks to pour out the water. If you must use plastic containers, use quality containers like Rubbermaid and Lock n Lock. I went the dollar store route in the beginning and learned real quick that I needed better containers., Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I would suggest that you go ahead with the tin. Try to find a hiding spot out of the 'weather'. Also if there is enough room inside use a plastic bag for the contents. When you decide where to hide the tin make sure there is room for an ammo can there (or very close to there). If the tin degrades very fast you can then switch the container to the ammo can. If the tin doesn't work out at least you will know what not to do the next time. Have fun with it, John Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Your cookie tin rustproofed inside and out would be a custom cache and unique container. So what if it doesn't last 15 years? Plan on replacing it every couple of years and give it a try! Mr Smiles 15yrs? I've found them (minus the nice paint) and they didn't last 15 days. They really are not watertight, and the paint wont stay on where you open and close it, so those spots rust right up and then you cant even open it. Agreed, they make poor contaniers unless you're able to hide them where they won't be exposed to the weather. The ones I've found were rusty, particluarly around the rim and very hard to open. Quote Link to comment
+Imajika Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I may just have to order some ammo cans--do you know if they carry .50 cal? I've never really cared for finding the plastic containers. They just have a 'disposable' feel to me. I've never seen a Lock and Lock container--I'll do a search. I'm pretty sure I won't be doing the Rubbermaid thing though. Up here in Minnesota I worry about freezing temperatures and bears destroying the plastic stuff. Two of my caches are lock 'n' locks. They have survived a Colorado winter just fine. I prefer ammo cans though and there are several army surplus stores in my area that sell them cheap. You might want to buy ammo cans from cheaper than dirt if you are concerned that a lock 'n' lock won't survive in your area. I have seen 2 caches that had been made from cookie tins/coffee cans. Within a few months they were literally falling apart and filled to the brim with water. I don't think they would survive very long unless you are willing to do a lot of maintenence checks and replace the container fairly often. Quote Link to comment
+dingermcduff Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks for the good advice. I think I'll just find somewhere in my yard and let the tin sit over winter. If the paint job I gave it helps it survive, I put it out next spring. In the meantime, I'll probably have to order some cans, since the local gun shop hardly ever has them and the army surplus store here wants a fortune. I checked a couple of dollar stores and 2 pawn shops without luck either. No cacher-friendly businesses in the area. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks for the good advice. I think I'll just find somewhere in my yard and let the tin sit over winter. If the paint job I gave it helps it survive, I put it out next spring. . Go out and open and close it periodically to make the test realistic. As others have mentioned, try cheaperthandirt.com for ammo boxes. They are a good, inexpenisve source. Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks for the good advice. I think I'll just find somewhere in my yard and let the tin sit over winter. If the paint job I gave it helps it survive, I put it out next spring. In the meantime, I'll probably have to order some cans, since the local gun shop hardly ever has them and the army surplus store here wants a fortune. I checked a couple of dollar stores and 2 pawn shops without luck either. No cacher-friendly businesses in the area. This idea sounds great. Let everyone know how it works. It will be interesting to see how everyone who has said flat out 'NO' feels when it does work beautifully. We have hidden several 'tins' and all are doing just fine so far. One is a large popcorn can that has survived for over a year now with no problem. This happens to be in an area where there is snow & freezing temps in the winter months. So, next spring. we will be looking for another thread or you posting to this one about your tin. We will be glad for any info about the kind of paint you use. Thank you. Shirley~ Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I've found a couple cookie tin caches too. The main issue with the rust is that sooner or later (usually sooner) the can lid gets rusted to the can and makes it next to impossible to open. My guess is that with the scraping on and off, your rust-proof paint still isn't going to help for very long. When I worked in the hardware store we had a saying, "If you can't afford to do it right, will you be able to afford to do it again?" Test your ideas out in your back yard...play around with them...see if they work before you spring the on the rest of the world. Bret Quote Link to comment
+Robespierre Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 a. A good container (ammo box) saves you a lot of trouble, but nothing's foolproof, 'cause fools are so ingenious. b. With a couple of pieces of weathered wood,and a couple of days delay, you can create a "shelter" for tupperware pieces that is camoflaged, can keep direct rain off, and make all the difference. c. An experimental container won't work well in a flood - my one bad experience was due to just a humongous amount of ground water - so I re-did things with an ammo box, and partial shelter and raised rock platform. d. Make life easier on yourself - do the work first, and relax about water, and theft. Quote Link to comment
+Hynr Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I think I'll just find somewhere in my yard and let the tin sit over winter. If the paint job I gave it helps it survive, I put it out next spring. Why not test it in operation. Put it out where it can do some good. That is the only way you will get any real data on suitability. We already know how well this will last in your backyard: If you painted it properly, placed out of the sun, never opened, etc - it will last longer than 15 years. If it get's handled, it won't last as long, but easily long enough if you service it occasionally. My advice: use it to place a cache in an interesting location, ... as is, (content in a zip-lock bag inside the tin) ... now, ... not next spring! I mean TODAY!!! I hope it's near my home, 'cause I could use some new ones nearby. Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Just a hint. If metal cans are wrapped completely in camouflaged duct tape they very seldom rust. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Test your ideas out in your back yard...play around with them...see if they work before you spring the on the rest of the world Or just use ammo boxes. Quote Link to comment
+DavisFamily Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Whatever you do, don't put the container is a bag of any kind. That never turns out well. Why not? This was recommended to me by someone who had visited my cache and I've seen others in bags. My cache is a tupperware-style container as ammo box caches are forbidden in the park. Quote Link to comment
+Teach2Learn Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Having found a few of these, usually placed by newer cachers, these are my findings concerning placing bags around cache containers: --They hold water. Even if originally closed properly with the opening away from the elements, they don't remain this way. --They mildew. --They become temporary homes for critters. A quick search may reveal other problems and I'm sure long-time cachers like briansnat, RK, Mopar, GPSax, and many others could provide more insight. Quote Link to comment
+2qwerqE Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I've been using Coleman and Gott thermos jugs for awhile now. They are waterproof, until somebody caches in the rain and lets the water in. They come in different sizes, are easily painted if they're not green, and I find them at thrift stores like Goodwill and Value Village for under $2 each. Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 AMEN! Goodwil keeps my caching alive plenty. Quote Link to comment
+n5psp Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I'm working on a couple of bigger cache containers made from discarded oil field automation equipment enclosures. These NEMA rated containers are bigger than ammo cans, and if the conduits are properly installed in the holes the way the safety codes specify (I've seen some improperly installed) the things are gas tight. Once the circuit boards and stuff are unbolted from the inside, they are rather roomy. Down side is, they are much heavier than an ammo can. But, they have mounting flanges and were designed to bolt to utility poles, to pipelines, on meter skids, and other outdoor locations and keep the equipment inside not only dry and functional. Maybe hide the thing in plain sight - use a dummy conduit so it looks like maybe it's functional, stick a Groundspeak sticker on it, put a combination padlock on it, and have an earlier multi-cache stage for the combination. Most muggles would think it was some kind of automation equipment and leave it alone. Some of the ones I salvaged several years ago are made of heavy enough metal to take a 9mm round at point blank range without penetrating (although it puts a good dent in it). Quote Link to comment
+CompuCash Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 check out your local Dollar store - great place for cache containters of all sizes as well as some pretty cool grade goodies to put in it. While yer there, check out the pens and pads too. Do not buy cache containers at the dollar store, unless you want to visit every few weeks to pour out the water. If you must use plastic containers, use quality containers like Rubbermaid and Lock n Lock. I went the dollar store route in the beginning and learned real quick that I needed better containers., Is kinda hard to get water into a 2 qt jar with a screw top lid - I tried the hose test on my square 'tupper type' boxes and got only air when I opened it. so you pays your money and you takes your chances. I guess we'll see by the end of the winter huh? I'll give ya'll a nice detailed report - Quote Link to comment
+n5psp Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Screw top lid type containers rock. They will pass the fire hose test for liquid ingress, and also pass complete immersion as long as people make sure they lid fully seats. An acid test for whether a container will survive months outdoors and keep the log and swag dry is to build an immersion test cell - it can be anything from an aquarium to a swimming pool to an open-top 55 gallon drum, or a piece of large diameter pipe capped on one end. Weight the container so it will sink. Put something inside that will indicate the presence of moisture - anhydrous cobalt chloride powder (blue when dry, pink when moist) or other moisture indicator will work well. In a pinch, put a cup of dry flour in there. Set the test aparatus up outside, preferrably on the south side of the house (northern hemisphere) or north side (southern hemisphere) so it will go through more temperature extremes between day and night. Sink the container to the bottom - a foot underwater ought to test most caches - you can go to about 10 feet with a joint of 6 inch sewer pipe stood on end. Leave it for a week or more. Then fish it out, dry it thoroughly outside, and finally open it and check the test contents. If the moisture indicator material inside is still dry, your container passed. Here's why to do temperature cycles: The material expands and contracts, which can compromise the seal if the expansion coefficients are different between lid and body or O-ring or whatever. Also changing internal pressures / temperatures can cause air to "burp" out on hot days, and then the container might aspirate either water or very moist air on a cool night. This "breathing" tends to accumulate moisture inside - which is one reason plastic bags collect water. I've had some real surprises with what stays sealed and what leaks under such a real-world test. Quote Link to comment
+dingermcduff Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 Speaking of bears eating Tupperware, it's a good thing I found this cache in my area when I did. Quote Link to comment
+Torry Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I've been using Coleman and Gott thermos jugs for awhile now. They are waterproof, until somebody caches in the rain and lets the water in. They come in different sizes, are easily painted if they're not green, and I find them at thrift stores like Goodwill and Value Village for under $2 each. I'd completely spaced the Thermos jugs. They've worked out great at a variety of caches I've hit and are waterproof and can be tied down and alolowed to float at station in flood-prone areas. Plus you can pick them up REAL cheap at the Goodwill. Make sure you bleach them thoroughly to remove all food smells. Tape up the drinking nozzle and or silicone it to keep a good seal. If it has those snap-on type spouts on top, tape those up. If it has the spigot on the bottom remove it (if you can do it by unscrewing) and tape and silicone the hole. They can be camouflaged with tape more permanently than with paint that tends to flake off. Quote Link to comment
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