My Latest Unreasonable Demand

4.7k · June 24, 2004

i get a lot of logs in my email, since i have a lot of caches on mt watchlist. i read most of 'em. but if somebody uploads pictures to go with the log, there's often no indication in the log, so i miss that unless i "go visit this log", which would take a really long time if i had to do it for every log i get.

what i'd like is for a note to come through with the logs that have picture that there's an image associated with it. then i'd know to go and look.

really. i LIKE looking at other people's pictures.

i do not know how easy it would be to do this, but i'm asking anyway. please.

June 24, 2004

Perhaps the emails could include links to the pics after the log text as they appear on the cache page?

Thorin

1.1k · June 24, 2004

Great idea, but what happens if someone doesn't upload the pictures right away? What if they wait a few days or a week to upload the pics...I do that many times. Or should there be an email sent each time a picture is uploaded too? But that could be a lot of emails if someone uploads a lot of pictures. Maybe there is a way to get this implemented somehow.

2.8k · June 24, 2004

I remember this being asked for before and what Jeremy posted was that the email is sent as soon as the log is posted. Images are uploaded after the initial log posting, even if done immediately after posting.

If I'm online when I get the notification email, I might not visit it immediately or if I do, keep it in my inbox and visit it later to see if images are added.

I wouldn't want an additional email after subsequent images were uploaded.

6.4k · June 24, 2004

I also would not want the added file size associated with the pictures, even though I have a broadband connection, the PQs and watchlist emails along with my normal email push my mail account size to the limit (and often over it!) already.

I also would not want gc.com to have to pay to send out 5-6 emails for every cache I log. Bandwidth is not free, and when you are talking about 250,000 cache logs a month, with all the associated watchlists, that would be millions of extra emails a month.

June 24, 2004

Or should there be an email sent each time a picture is uploaded too?

I would actually like this. I always read the email logs when someone finds my cache but don't automatically go read it on the cache page. Later I might be skimming one of my caches and notice that there are pics on it that I didn't even know were there. Sometimes, the pics are loaded days/weeks after the log was enetered.

I'm not a computer person, but it appears that GC.com can handle sending out lots of emails (unlimited watchlists for an example), so I can't imagine added notifications when pics are listed would tax the system (but I really don't know).

I would also like to see the gallery feature put on the TB pages.

E

6.4k · June 24, 2004

Taxing it is only one part.

The main part for me as someone who has been involved with some other large sized websites, is the cost. When you get beyond personal homepage sized websites, the bandwidth is billed by usage. I remember a post by Jeremy where he mentioned the increase in new users after Christmas added another $700/month to the bill. I'm sure it went up again in the spring. I'd hate to see prices have to increase, or other areas of the site lose out just so I can get 6 emails for every cache log.

Edited June 24, 2004 by Mopar

9.5k · June 24, 2004

Or should there be an email sent each time a picture is uploaded too?

I would actually like this. I always read the email logs when someone finds my cache but don't automatically go read it on the cache page. Later I might be skimming one of my caches and notice that there are pics on it that I didn't even know were there. Sometimes, the pics are loaded days/weeks after the log was enetered.

I'm not a computer person, but it appears that GC.com can handle sending out lots of emails (unlimited watchlists for an example), so I can't imagine added notifications when pics are listed would tax the system (but I really don't know).

I would also like to see the gallery feature put on the TB pages.

E

Let's see if we can help you understand this a little more. It's like Mopar stated, there is a cost for the monthly cumulative bandwidth used that adds up for each and every message sent. Now you may be looking at that message and only see a message that might be no larger than 6KB but what you need to do is multiply that number by the thousands of people watching all of the caches and events GC.com has listed.

Add to that the multiple Watchlists that the paying members receive and you can see how easily the numbers add up.

It goes way beyond anything you might pay for even with the generous amount most broadband services allow. Comcast is at 5GB bandwidth I think, and I'm almost certain given the traffic that GC.com generates both in the forums and the outgoing messages, plus all the caches and events being added on a daily basis, and all the surfing that happens on their site, and that 5GB would be quickly taken within a week or two. In my case, that would cause Comcast to either charge you extra (and exobitantly) for the extra bandwidth you would need to even surf the web, or shut you down for the duration of the month you paid for.

Now... add to that, the desire to receive a message every time someone loads a picture to their log and all I can say is YIKES!

Only a small portion of the messages being sent out is actively supported by the paying members - the watchlists. Anything beyond that is based on GC.com's generoous stand to provide those services free of charge to the non-paying members. It's not worth it to them to increase their load on each log without asking for some up front fees to cover it.

June 24, 2004

I remember this being asked for before and what Jeremy posted was that the email is sent as soon as the log is posted. Images are uploaded after the initial log posting, even if done immediately after posting.

This could be mitigated (somewhat) if the log page allowed me to upload images at the same time I'm logging the find - something that makes sense if you're interested in minimizing round-trips to the server. Compare:

Current Method

Go to Hide/Seek Cache (*)
Type in waypoint click find (*)
Click Log your Find (*)
Type in log and click Submit Log Entry (*)
Click Upload Image (*)
Upload your image (*)

(*) = A roundtrip to the server

Total = 6 round trips to log a find and upload a single image.

Better Method

Go to Hide/Seek Cache (*)
Type in waypoint click find (*)
Click Log your Find (*)
Type in log, select an image, and click Submit Log Entry (*)

(*) = A roundtrip to the server

Total = 4 round trips to log a find and upload a single image, and the watchers can receive an e-mail indicating that there was an image associated with the log entry.

Best Method

Go to Log Cache Find - doesn't exist yet (*)
Type in waypoint, find log, select one or more images, and click Submit Log Entry (*)

(*) = A roundtrip to the server

Total = 2 round trips to log a find and upload a single image, or multiple images. And the watchers can receive an e-mail indicating that there was one or more images associated with the log entry.

Reducing the number of clicks for the user also (obviously) reduces the number of roundtrips to the server. This results in a better user experience (fewer client->server transactions = better response time), and reduces the need to throw more hardware at the server farm. It's a win-win situation. Everybody is happy.

I know, this has been suggested before, so keep your flame thrower in the off position please.

9.5k · June 24, 2004

Best Method
Go to Log Cache Find - doesn't exist yet (*)

Type in waypoint, find log, select one or more images, and click Submit Log Entry (*)

(*) = A roundtrip to the server

Total = 2 round trips to log a find and upload a single image, or multiple images. And the watchers can receive an e-mail indicating that there was one or more images associated with the log entry.

Reducing the number of clicks for the user also (obviously) reduces the number of roundtrips to the server. This results in a better user experience (fewer client->server transactions = better response time), and reduces the need to throw more hardware at the server farm. It's a win-win situation. Everybody is happy.

How about a slight modification to this? Each picture usually has an opportunity for the finder to add a little quip that adds to the story and I like the way the opportunity is given for the caption to be added for each picture. I might be wrong, but the e-mail isn't sent out till the log is submitted after a preview. Allow the pictures to be uploaded during the preview mode, before the log submission. This way the log e-mail is sent at the same time the pictures are there when the Submit button is pushed.

This doesn't exactly solve the problem with analog cameras, but it would certainly ease the pain on the digital side.

Edited June 24, 2004 by TotemLake

6.4k · June 24, 2004

Great idea, Nomad. Would require major changes, but I'd rather see stuff like that to optimize the site rather then just wasting even more bandwidth. I still don't know if that would solve the original post suggestion though. How many people have the pictures ready to upload when they log a find? I only have my own and a few other people's experiences to go on here. For me, it depends.

Sometimes I log caches right away. If I do that, chances are I haven't had a chance to d/l the pics off the camera and identify them, rotate them, edit tb tags and spoilers, etc. It may be days later when I upload the pics.

More often I fall behind on my logs. Those times I'm probably refering back to the pics when I write my log. I take a pic of my cache log now to refresh my memory in those cases. Of course in those cases I'll probably upload the pic right after my log. So I would guess in my case the picture links would go out maybe 50% of the time, the rest would require more emails. Of most of the locals that upload pics, very few seem to upload the pics wit the log, usually it's a day or 2 later. Those would also require multiple emails.

6.4k · June 24, 2004

It goes way beyond anything you might pay for even with the generous amount most broadband services allow. Comcast is at 5GB bandwidth I think, and I'm almost certain given the traffic that GC.com generates both in the forums and the outgoing messages, plus all the caches and events being added on a daily basis, and all the surfing that happens on their site, and that 5GB would be quickly taken within a week or two. In my case, that would cause Comcast to either charge you extra (and exobitantly) for the extra bandwidth you would need to even surf the web, or shut you down for the duration of the month you paid for.to cover it.

I just did some VERY rough guessing, based on the total file size of the avg cache page, map page, and photos stored here and muliplied it by some VERY old page views per month Jeremy once posted. I would have to guess that the webserver (not even including the email server pumping out all those emails and PQ attachments or the forum server) is probably pushing out 200gigs a day. Without knowing how many premium members there are getting PQs and 1000 cache watchlists, I can't even TRY to hazzard a guess for the mailserver, but my avg PG is 2.5meg, and some people get 5 of those a day, every day.

Edited June 24, 2004 by Mopar

9.5k · June 24, 2004

That makes perfectly good sense. I merely used my personal experience as an example. By your calculations, I wouldn't even last 1/2 hour. LOL

June 24, 2004

A low-bandwith and least labor intensive option is to do what I do, reference the pics in the log text.

That way watchers will know something's attached and can click the link if desired without rewrites of the site or bandwith increases.

Of course, this isn't the forum to get Johnny Q. Geocacher to adopt that behaviour, but if we all start doing that in our logs others will catch on (since a small portion of cachers read the forums...)

Enjoy,

Randy

6.4k · June 24, 2004

Randy, how do you do that in the initial log post?

You have to submit the cache log before you can upload pictures to it. As soon as you submit it, it goes out to the cache owner and watch list. They won't get a copy if you later edit in links to the pictures.

Only way I could see doing it this way would be to load them off-site or to a different cache, so you already have links to the pictures. Downside to that is the photos then are not part of the intended cache's gallery.

Am I missing something?

June 24, 2004

How many people have the pictures ready to upload when they log a find? I only have my own and a few other people's experiences to go on here. For me, it depends.

I have to say that for me, it depends too. Mostly these days, I'm logging my find at the cache site on my Blackberry. This means that the x-number of extra clicks is painfully slow. So just eliminating the extra clicks and such would be a HUGE benefit to me (and others with hiptops, and pocket-pc's that do the same).

But, in the case where I know I want to post a picture, I defer that log until I get home. I download my pix from the camera, crop and rotate, all before I begin the logging process. Then, it's the multi-click bonanza and I wade through all the screens to get the log accomplished.

So in my case, I think it would be a tremendous time saver (as well as server bandwidth-saver), and it would address the original request.

Technically speaking, it shouldn't require much code to implement something like this as the forms being used merely post the information into the database, and they already have all the code for doing log submissions and image submissions. I would guess that a developer familiar with the two pages could create a consolidated page in about a day, and release it after about a week of internal (and external) beta testing. That's going on my experience in J2EE and ASP development. I've been a software engineer for about 15 years, and feel I'm experienced enough to provide such a glib cost estimate. :blink:

Finally, as to whether to send out the images as attachments, I would state an unequivocal, resounding no. The last thing gc.com should ever do IMO is send out e-mails with image attachments. Simply having a single html link to the persons' log, along with an indicator of the presence or absense of images should be sufficient.

June 24, 2004

Sorry Chris,

I must not be clearly posting recently, anyway, since I know I'll be uploaded a certain pic or pics when I log and I usually describe my experiences, I usually say something like, "Although this wasn't my favorite cache of all time and I think it would be improved by the inclusion of hints, a highlight was seeing a Phoebe sitting on her nest (see pic below)..."

Then the cache owners and watchers (if not so offended at my not appreciating his/her latest achievement that they delete my log out of hand) will know there's a picture forthcoming despite the emailed copy of the log not including a link to such.

(However, if a code re-write were something Jeremy desires to undertake, stripping HTML from log emails per users' preferences would be desirable too!)

Enjoy,

Randy

PS: Sorry everyone else for tongue-in-cheek, inside-joke reference... {wink}

June 24, 2004

I also would not want the added file size associated with the pictures, even though I have a broadband connection, the PQs and watchlist emails along with my normal email push my mail account size to the limit (and often over it!) already.
I also would not want gc.com to have to pay to send out 5-6 emails for every cache I log. Bandwidth is not free, and when you are talking about 250,000 cache logs a month, with all the associated watchlists, that would be millions of extra emails a month.

Thus providing the picture links as they appear in the cache page below the log entry would be great.

Though that still leaves a timing issue. Perhaps the emails could be sent an hour after the log is added, thus providing time for picture upload. (If someone takes longer then that for their pics then "oh well").

Thorin

June 24, 2004

Randy, how do you do that in the initial log post?

I think he means his log say "see blah blah blah in picture xyz"

Edit: DOH he alerady answered

Thorin

Edited June 24, 2004 by thorin

October 21, 2007

An old thread but nothing seems to have changed with this.

I too would like the picture in the log. If nothing else at least a link or something to let you know there is a picture.

While I get all the emails, I always end up clicking on the link to go to the site just to see if any photos were included.

I don't need the photo in the log. I just at least want to know there's a photo to go look at.

6.5k · October 21, 2007

An old thread but nothing seems to have changed with this.

I too would like the picture in the log. If nothing else at least a link or something to let you know there is a picture.

While I get all the emails, I always end up clicking on the link to go to the site just to see if any photos were included.

I don't need the photo in the log. I just at least want to know there's a photo to go look at.

Literally I don't think anything has changed in this regaurd, as noted by team DEMP and others the notice about a new log is sent when the log is posted. Since the log must exist before pictures can be attached, the notice will be sent before the pictures if any are attached. Can't really give you a warning of something that hasn't happened yet .

If something was set up to send notices of pictures, it would seem to need some sort of delay to allow to 'all' the pics to be uploaded before sending, which is something I don't any of the notices have ever done. I guess one notice could be sent as soon as a pic is posted, but then you could get multiple notices if someone that likes to take and upload pictures visits your cache. Geez and a big event could break something LOL.

October 21, 2007

If something was set up to send notices of pictures, it would seem to need some sort of delay to allow to 'all' the pics to be uploaded before sending, which is something I don't any of the notices have ever done. I guess one notice could be sent as soon as a pic is posted, but then you could get multiple notices if someone that likes to take and upload pictures visits your cache. Geez and a big event could break something LOL.

This is something that could easily be overcome and should be a non-issue really. There is a certain amount of time you can edit your log before it contains the tag that it was edited. Why not just send the notification out after that time has expired. This would also give logs the ability to make brief changes before being sent out in an email.

I dunno really. Seems like something that shouldn't be so hard to implement IMHO.

Edited October 21, 2007 by Crew of Misfits

9.1k · October 21, 2007

I also would not want the added file size associated with the pictures, even though I have a broadband connection, the PQs and watchlist emails along with my normal email push my mail account size to the limit (and often over it!) already.

I also would not want gc.com to have to pay to send out 5-6 emails for every cache I log. Bandwidth is not free, and when you are talking about 250,000 cache logs a month, with all the associated watchlists, that would be millions of extra emails a month.

I found it interesting that the site traffic's grown from 250,000 cache logs per month in summer 2004 to 1,200,000 cache logs per month in summer 2007.

On topic, what about an optional checkbox that the person uploading the images could select? That is, after I've added the last of my six terrific sunset pictures, I could check a box on my log or image page that said "send notification of image uploads." The cache owner, the watchlist and bookmark list owners who opt in for notices would then receive an e-mail saying that "Geocacher XYZ has uploaded images to this cache. Click the link below to go to the Gallery for this cache."

8k · October 21, 2007

On topic, what about an optional checkbox that the person uploading the images could select? That is, after I've added the last of my six terrific sunset pictures, I could check a box on my log or image page that said "send notification of image uploads." The cache owner, the watchlist and bookmark list owners who opt in for notices would then receive an e-mail saying that "Geocacher XYZ has uploaded images to this cache. Click the link below to go to the Gallery for this cache."

Don't we have something like this now. After uploading pictures that person can log a Note saying "I've uploaded pictures". They could even delete the note immediately after submitting it so it doesn't clutter the cache page. Everyone watching the cache will get a email that a Note was written that says uploaded pictures.

11.3k · October 21, 2007

That is a good idea . . . but how do you tell the rest of the Geocaching community who doesn't read the forum they can do that . . . ? <_<

I like The Leprechauns idea, however, with all the other problems the site is having, and all the other things that need to be attended to . . . well . . .

14.3k · October 21, 2007

I typically wait a couple of days to open the email link to give the person time to upload photos. Most peopledo it within a couple of days.

9.1k · October 21, 2007

Oh, definitely. It's more of a v2 suggestion. Groundspeak would be smart to make better use of the vast library of cool images that the community has uploaded. The front page gallery is a good example, and the image features at Waymarking.com are another.

14.3k · October 21, 2007

Oh, definitely. It's more of a v2 suggestion. Groundspeak would be smart to make better use of the vast library of cool images that the community has uploaded. The front page gallery is a good example, and the image features at Waymarking.com are another.

I like the gallery idea. It would be cool to see a gallery of photos from your hidden caches.....

9.1k · October 21, 2007

Oh, definitely. It's more of a v2 suggestion. Groundspeak would be smart to make better use of the vast library of cool images that the community has uploaded. The front page gallery is a good example, and the image features at Waymarking.com are another.
I like the gallery idea. It would be cool to see a gallery of photos from your hidden caches.....

That's easy. Run a pocket query, specifying caches that are owned by your account. Run the query in online preview mode. Click on the link at the top of the page to show a gallery of all images associated with your owned caches.

14.3k · October 21, 2007

Oh, definitely. It's more of a v2 suggestion. Groundspeak would be smart to make better use of the vast library of cool images that the community has uploaded. The front page gallery is a good example, and the image features at Waymarking.com are another.
I like the gallery idea. It would be cool to see a gallery of photos from your hidden caches.....

That's easy. Run a pocket query, specifying caches that are owned by your account. Run the query in online preview mode. Click on the link at the top of the page to show a gallery of all images associated with your owned caches.

Thanks Lep! You learn something new everyday! <_<

This seems like a good solution for the OP as well because you can save that gallery as a shortcut!

Edited October 21, 2007 by TrailGators

2.9k · October 22, 2007

Hers the last line of our last log and a few before that

pictures with this log

October 22, 2007

I like the button idea.

like a checkbox that says "I plan on uploading pictures"

Or even another addition to the Log type selection list.

Like "Foud it" but "Found it with pictures"

6.5k · October 23, 2007

If something was set up to send notices of pictures, it would seem to need some sort of delay to allow to 'all' the pics to be uploaded before sending, which is something I don't any of the notices have ever done. I guess one notice could be sent as soon as a pic is posted, but then you could get multiple notices if someone that likes to take and upload pictures visits your cache. Geez and a big event could break something LOL.

This is something that could easily be overcome and should be a non-issue really. There is a certain amount of time you can edit your log before it contains the tag that it was edited. Why not just send the notification out after that time has expired. This would also give logs the ability to make brief changes before being sent out in an email.

I dunno really. Seems like something that shouldn't be so hard to implement IMHO.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that it currenty isn't.

As for holding logs too, yea 'daily summary' and such have been suggested before also, but as you notice, still aren't available. Again not saying that couldn't be done, just that it never was and isn't currently.

October 23, 2007

This doesn't completely solve the O.P's request but here's a solution that would get close to providing the functionality without generating lots of emails:

On the "Owned" geocaches page (http://www.geocaching.com/my/owned.aspx), how about adding a column for "Lastest Photos Uploaded" (or similar wording) that shows the date that photos were most recently added for each owned cache. The date could be a hyperlink back to log containing the photos. That way the cache owner could quickly scan the list for new photos and jump straight to the page. (A little "NEW" graphic could even be added to upload dates less than a week old in the same way that new caches are highlighted on some pages).

If the owned-geocaches page could be sorted on the "latest photos" date that would be even better especially for people that have more caches than fit on one page.

My Latest Unreasonable Demand

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