Response From Nps

[+aka Monkey]

In another thread, I quoted an email I had sent to the National Park Service regarding virtual cache placement with the parks. I have received a wonderful response, which I'm going to share here. I'm not going to post the contact information for this person, as I don't want them to get flooded with emails. I am, however, going to give them a link to this thread and encourage them to read it, or possibly participate.

 

I'm sure I don't need to ask people to be respectful, knowing that this thread may be read by the people who can help determine the future of Geocaching in National Parks.

 

EDIT: I should mention that this person really is in a position to determine the future of caching in the parks. They are involved at the highest level.

 

---

 

I am pleased to receive your message and be available to respond. Thank

you so much for taking the time to write and share your views! There is an

increasing awareness about geocaching and related activities among

employees in the NPS and I am one of the educators who brings the activity

(as an example) to classes when teaching policy. We hope to have an

interpretation of existing policies and regulations out for park managers

very soon, to help them with their responses to geocaching requests (when

they are fortunate to get these through appropriate channels, in advance of

listings or placements) and understand their options.

 

There have been many discussions about geocaching, including virtual

caching, within the national park system community over the past few years.

Several of us would like to work with members of the geocaching community

and particularly on communications and education ideas together. There are

times and places where geocaching would be an invaluable and desirable

educational activity within parks. First, we do need to establish a common

understanding and vision on how to work together. It has been difficult

to establish a dialog with some of our contacts, due to the anonymous

nature of the Internet at times. I look forward to suggestions on how to

involve the geocaching folks in our process in a meaningful way.

 

Regarding virtual caches, the park superintendent does have a right to ask

that these not be listed if visitors are being directed inappropriately to

a particular location and when resource and visitor needs have not been

taken into consideration. I have worked around enough endangered (plant

and animal) species, species of special concern and their breeding grounds,

and unstable mine shaft coverings (all in the same park) to know that

people should generally not be directed willy nilly through a park to an

intriguing or beautiful area without direct involvement of knowledgeable

folks on staff. The park staff are there to help the public enjoy the

resource safely. The only way this can be done is for anyone proposing a

potential activity to contact the park and work together to determine if

the choices and listings are satisfactory. I hope that it does not

surprise you to know that there are several parks in the national park

system that do permit geocaching, both actual and virtual - and I am

assuming that arrangements have been made and permissions granted in

advance by the park staff in all of those cases. It may be helpful to

begin to document successful experiences and models of how the activity is

being conducted in an appropriate manner to the satisfaction of the NPS

staff and the geocachers and share them on the Internet, both on our site

and geocaching.com (and others).

 

Again, thank you for writing. Perhaps we could talk more. For example, I

would be happy to further discuss the very reasonable grounds and

situations upon which virtual caching would be requested not to take place,

as well as other situations where the activity/listings might be perfectly

acceptable, perhaps even helpful to the mission of the park. I would also

like to understand the geocaching community better and know of some good,

current contacts, and particular problem areas. I would also ask why more

could not be done to bring valuable GPS technology and education to park

visitors through partnerships between the NPS and the geocaching

communities. Please share your thoughts!

Edited March 31, 2004 by Indiana Cojones

[+Nurse Dave]

Sounds like they are being resonable and they just want us to use common sense. But even so I think it's funny that anyone can think that the posting of a location on the earth can or should be restricted. I do agree that there are irresonsible people that would lead others to area they shouldn't, but so say they aren't allowed to post the coordinates of a place is just a little too Big Brother for me. If I wanted to, I could post the coods of people's houses on the internet, doesn't make it right, but it's just a location.

[+PSUPAUL]

I think this is great! Hopefully it will lead to some traditional caches being allowed in NPS on at least a test basis.

[+aka Monkey]

"I hope it does not surprise you to know that there are several parks in the national park

system that do permit geocaching, both actual and virtual - and I am assuming that arrangements have been made and permissions granted in advance by the park staff in all of those cases. It may be helpful to begin to document successful experiences and models of how the activity is being conducted in an appropriate manner to the satisfaction of the NPS staff and the geocachers and share them on the Internet, both on our site and geocaching.com (and others)."

 

Apparently some people have gotten permission to place traditional caches within the parks. This isn't what I had heard, and IS surprising. Can anyone shed some light on these caches?

[+The Cheeseheads]

Sounds like they are being resonable and they just want us to use common sense. But even so I think it's funny that anyone can think that the posting of a location on the earth can or should be restricted. I do agree that there are irresonsible people that would lead others to area they shouldn't, but so say they aren't allowed to post the coordinates of a place is just a little too Big Brother for me. If I wanted to, I could post the coods of people's houses on the internet, doesn't make it right, but it's just a location.

This still falls under some of the reservations he mentioned. A virtual set in the middle of the wilderness that might cause someone to unknowingly walk through endangered/restricted/dangerous areas is just as bad as a physical cache.

[+carleenp]

Apparently some people have gotten permission to place traditional caches within the parks. This isn't what I had heard, and IS surprising. Can anyone shed some light on these caches?

 

This cache was placed on NPS property with permission in Nebraska.

Edited March 31, 2004 by carleenp

[+Renegade Knight]

It's a start. Two thumbs up.

[+aka Monkey]

This cache was placed on NPS property with permission in Nebraska.

Thanks for the link, looks like it's been working out well. We should get some information from the cache hider about what the concerns were (if any) from the NPS employees about hiding the cache.

[CoyoteRed]

But even so I think it's funny that anyone can think that the posting of a location on the earth can or should be restricted.

It's not the posting of a location, but the encouragement for others to go against the wishes of the guardians of the land.

 

Sure, you can posts the coords to my house, but start encouraging folks to traipse through my backyard, then me and you are going to have a little talk.

[McKenzie Clan]

Perhaps the "anonymous nature" of the internet is one of the reasons that caches are placed without permission in some cases.

 

Myself, I prefer an e-mail over a phone call, or filling out an on-line form as opposed to going in person. Maybe I am just an introvert, or as some people have been known to call me an anti-social bastard.

 

Perhaps, if there was a way for geocachers to get permission from a park employee through some on-line method, permission would be sought out more often than not.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Scott

[+Cherokeecacher]

What a great opportunity this is. Now all we need to do is hope some “anarchist cacher” does not set relations back a few years. When the time comes, I volunteer as a contact for South East Texas. (About 150-mile radius of greater Houston)

 

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to establish this, much needed, contact.

[+Tobias Maximus]

Apparently some people have gotten permission to place traditional caches within the parks.

I am in contact with an park ranger in trying to set up an actual cache on a state park in Colorado. We're still hammering out details on exactly where and how we want to place it. He said that he is even willing to help maintain the cache and put park service materials (stickers, literature, etc. ) in it. I think that if an effort is made to communicate with the park service, they can become our allies instead of our enemies in geocaching.

[+JMBella]

Kudos to you Indi! That's a great response. I look forward to working with the NPS in my area of Long Island NY. I am currently in discussion with the managers of a NP in my area and am confident I'll be getting the approval and placing the cache shortly. I will keep you updated. Thanks again to Indi and the NPS for opening up some very positive dialog.

[CoyoteRed]

Now all we need to do is hope some “anarchist cacher” does not set relations back a few years.

You wouldn't be talking about someone from the other caching sites, would you? What about the letterboxers, to whom the concept of letterbox approvers are completely foreign? What about those who place Private Label caches?

 

Maybe now is a good time to address the fact that one site is not the complete world of this hobby. Take each cache on it's merits and understand there will be rogues beyond the control of any site. Just like there will be people who hike in areas they don't belong. Shouldn't ban the whole sport because a few break the rules, just like you wouldn't ban all hikers because a few go offtrail.

 

Address that, and address that now, to prevent furture problems.

[+aka Monkey]

Please try and keep this thread on topic, that being Geocaching in National Parks. A discussion on the general direction of Geocaching would be best off in another thread.

Edited March 31, 2004 by Indiana Cojones

[+Cherokeecacher]

Of course I am only guessing at what you are referring to as “off topic” since there does not seem to be any specific guidelines other than, “I'm sure I don't need to ask people to be respectful, knowing that this thread may be read by the people who can help determine the future of Geocaching in National Parks.”

 

Some clarification of your expectations might help us all contribute in a more constructive manner. I assure you I am not trying to be argumentative here . I just want to be able to contribute, not detract, to the great opportunity you have created.

 

As I respect your wishes to “stay on topic”, I think it is fair to say that suggesting things to discuss with NPS to insure proper understanding of the responsibilities and expectations of both the NPS and Geocaching.com Geocachers is about as ‘on topic” as you can hope to get. It all makes up the “Memorandum of Understanding” (MOU) that should be an integral part of this great new relationship between the NPS and the Geocachers from Geocaching.com.

 

Again. Thank you for taking the time to “blaze this new trail” for all of us to enjoy.

[+southdeltan]

CherokeeCacher - I don't think the request to bring this thread back on topic was aimed at your post. Yours was related enough to what this conversation is about.

 

I find this thread the be very encouraging. IC, have you forwarded your email to contact@Groundspeak? I think that would be a good idea.

 

southdeltan

[+aka Monkey]

I have, and Nate has forwarded it on to Jeremy, so hopefully some dialog will start soon!

[+Cache Viking]

Progress is progress. At least it was not a big NO!

 

Thanks for sharing.

[+aka Monkey]

Bump.

[magellan315]

I'm glad to see that the NPS is reconsidering its posotion. There are many options that they could use to allow Geocaching on their land. The first would be for them to place their own caches, the second would be to place caches in conjuction with local cachers. People who would go out and find cache sites and get the park staff to make sure that they are not in a fragile area. I'm sure the park staff could even suggest locations for hides that we would not consider as they know the land better. I know I would be more than glad to volunteer.

 

Its good to see that there is one cache on NPS land, this could easily act as a test site to resolve the impact Geocaching has on a park.

 

There are any number of state park systems that have effective Geocaching policies in place, any of these could be used by the NPS to create a policy of their own.

Edited April 2, 2004 by magellan315

[Bobthearch]

The NPS spent 14 million dollars on international travel last year. Now they they don't have enough operating funds and they may be forced to close parks on weekends or holidays.

 

Not sure I'd trust an e-mail from those folks...

 

-Bob

[+Lone Duck]

This is a good, positive, fair response. We have to remember that part of the purpose of the NPS is to protect the features and history in the park system.