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DebBrown

Ask Ngs Questions About Reporting Criteria

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Hi Geocachers,....

 

I've received several emails asking to clarify misconceptions about the criteria we (NGS) has for reporting on the condition of our control stations. I'd like you all to feel free to email me at Deb.Brown@noaa.gov or use this forum to post your questions. Emailing me would be best for an expedient answer.

 

Here are some basic guidelines:

 

1) A station is reportable to NGS if it has a PID.

 

2) A PID is a 2-letter/4-digit number assigned to every station (regardless of establishing agency) that NGS has positional or height observational and descriptive data on.

 

3) Not every station you will find is reportable to NGS because we may not have positional or height observational and descriptive data for it and therefore no PID.

 

4) You can find the PID for a station by visiting our website at www.ngs.noaa.gov Go to "Datasheets/find or update a point". From there click on "Datasheets" and from there do a search using the station name or position of the marker. It's self explanatory from there.

 

5) The time between recovery reports should not be more frequent than 1 year UNLESS the condition of the marker or the descriptive information has changed since the last report. Before submitting recovery information, please access the datasheet to see when it was last reported on.

 

6) A station whose setting is stable and the marker undisturbed or unmarred is considered to be in "GOOD" condition.

 

7) A station whose setting is unstable but intact or the marker broken or marred or stamping unreadable should be listed as "POOR/DISTURBED". In the text portion of the form explain the condition in detail.

 

8) For a station that is destroyed,...do NOT report it on the online form but instead:

a) if it's a disk or underground marker, take a digital photo of the remnants

and send it to me via email at Deb.Brown@noaa.gov along with the PID

and designation of the station. The photo must be in JPEG format.

:D if it's a landmark station such as an antenna, tower, tank etc. then a

photo of the area showing where the station "used" to be is sufficient.

Send it to me in JPEG format via email along with the PID and

designation.

c) If you know the station is destroyed but there are no remnants to photo-

graph or some other type of "proof" of the destruction is unavailable,

then use the online recovery form to submit a "NOT FOUND" report and

in the text portion explain your determination and why. Do not send me

an email about it.

 

9) At present, we are working on adding the options of photo submissions and hand held gps positions to the online recovery form. It's not available yet. Until it is you can send me photos via email of stations if they meet the following criteria:

a) The file size must be a meg or less.

B) The name of the file MUST be PID_YYYYMMDD_A <or> C.JPG (IN ALL

CAPS)

c) I need 2 photos of each marker, one area (A) with a background

reference object and one close-up © showing the stamping.

d) Photos cannot contain images of anything inappropriate or people/pets.

 

NOTE: The criteria for submitting photos found on our website is intended for those submitting blue-booked projects. It's more stringent than that for recovery submissions. Use the criteria I mentioned above for your recovery work.

 

10) For the time-being, please include your hand held position in the text portion of the recovery form.

 

11) If you find a discrepancy on our datasheet, send me via email, a detailed explanation of it and why you feel it's in error. I'll make any appropriate database changes.

 

12) In general, a station is suitable for satellite observations if there is an unobstructed view of the sky from about 15 degrees above the horizon. Small objects such as light poles are ok.

 

13) Please don't include personal phone numbers on the form. As well, please don't include questions or comments directed to me using the form. Email me instead.

 

I hope this information helps. I've tried to answer questions most frequently asked. If you have any others, please feel free to contact me.

 

deb

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For some reason the letter b I used in my outline numbering came out as smileys and the "C" representing "close-up" came out as a copywrite symbol. Hummmmmm

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That's because the code for the smiley :D is B ) (without the space)

the code for © is ( c ) without the spaces

Edited by ckhd

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12) In general, a station is suitable for satellite observations if there is an unobstructed view of the sky from about 15 degrees above the horizon.  Small objects such as light poles are ok.

I have a question about this. Do you mean that the mark should be visible from the sky to 15 degrees in all directions to the horizon? Or for instance, if a mark is next to a fence, the fence runs north-south. The mark would be obscured from the western horizon to almost 90 degrees, but in other directions it would be visible at more than 15 degrees above the horizon. Would it qualify for being observable by satellite?

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I have 2 detailed questions about this:

 

DebBrown Posted on Mar 30 2004, 09:00 AM

  7) A station whose setting is unstable but intact or the marker broken or marred or stamping unreadable should be listed as "POOR/DISTURBED". In the text portion of the form explain the condition in detail.

 

1. Most disks I've seen are marred to some extent. They have one or two heavy scratches, or a few punch marks, etc. Yet, almost all of these (maybe 95%) have a 100% readable stamping/designation and a well-defined center point (point of reference?) despite a scratch or two, or other type of marring somewhere on the disk (like maybe where it says "$250"). It seems like such disks should be listed as condition GOOD, not as condition POOR. Is this true? I guess this is the same as suggesting the words "or marred" be taken out of 7) in the quote above.

 

2. One thing we've hashed aroud over and over here in the past in this forum is the (unfortunately common) situation where a disk is broken off (stolen) and yet the disk's shank and the rest of the setting is there and stable and "looks" like it is the right monument (the right location and age and matches the other ones in the series). These days, I list these as "couldn't find it" on the geocaching site (because I can't read the disk). On the NGS site, should we:

 

a ) report these as NOT FOUND

 

b ) report these as FOUND, condition POOR

 

c )

8) For a station that is destroyed,...do NOT report it on the online form but instead:

a) if it's a disk or underground marker, take a digital photo of the remnants and send it to me via email

(assuming the disk's shank and cement monument do count as 'remnants')

 

d )

c) If you know the station is destroyed but there are no remnants to photo-

graph or some other type of "proof" of the destruction is unavailable,

then use the online recovery form to submit a "NOT FOUND" report and

in the text portion explain your determination and why. Do not send me

an email about it.

(assuming that the disk's shank and cement monument do not count as 'remnants').

 

Again, should we report the disk-broken-off cases as a, b, c, or d as described above?

Edited by Black Dog Trackers

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Hi Deb

 

Thank you for your input. I am sure you are trying to be helpful, but to date, my e-mails to your site have either been rejected or unanswered.

 

Your directions for filing can be complicated. I have tried to alert you (your agency, not YOU in particular) to a destroyed marker and to one that I have found that is not on your list.

 

Several e-mails to other Gov't entities just keep pointing me to other entities.

 

Isn't there someway we can report these things in a more direct manner? I realize and acknowledge that you don't need every Tom, Dick and Jane out here making wild claims but I am getting nowhere to the point where I am willing to just say to heck with it, no one really cares.

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NOTE: The criteria for submitting photos found on our website is intended for those submitting blue-booked projects. It's more stringent than that for recovery submissions. Use the criteria I mentioned above for your recovery work.

Ahhhh, So we don't have to put text in the photo, the file name itself if sufficient? (I assume a nice arrow would be appreciated if appropriate, or text to notate things like what direction the camera is facing, etc.)

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5) The time between recovery reports should not be more frequent than 1 year UNLESS the condition of the marker or the descriptive information has changed since the last report. Before submitting recovery information, please access the datasheet to see when it was last reported on.

If I may take the liberty....

 

When Deb refers you to a 'datasheet,' please go to the NGS site and look at the current datasheet. Datasheets you access via the geocaching.com site are a couple of years out of date and frequently do not contain the latest recovery reports.

 

-ArtMan-

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12) In general, a station is suitable for satellite observations if there is an unobstructed view of the sky from about 15 degrees above the horizon.  Small objects such as light poles are ok.

I have a question about this. Do you mean that the mark should be visible from the sky to 15 degrees in all directions to the horizon? Or for instance, if a mark is next to a fence, the fence runs north-south. The mark would be obscured from the western horizon to almost 90 degrees, but in other directions it would be visible at more than 15 degrees above the horizon. Would it qualify for being observable by satellite?

OK, I am not NGS but I was Survey Tech for 30+ yrs and for the last 10-15 yrs involved in many GPS projects.

 

To determine GPS suitability, stand on the station mark. Straight out from eye level is 0° (degrees) and straight up in the sky is 90°. Thats what she is referring to. You have to picture in you mind where the GPS receiver on a tripod will be and eye level is normal.

 

fyi

You can make a simple device to measure this by getting a cheap protractor at Walmart and some large paper clips. Make sure the protractor has a hole in the base or drill one. Slip the paper clip thru the hole, and with the protractor with the flat side up, place it at eye level and tilt it up to the top of an item of obstruction, you will have the angle above the horizon where the paper clip is, good enough for this work.

 

gps-1.jpg

Edited by elcamino

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To determine GPS suitability,  stand on the station mark.  Straight out from eye level is 0° (degrees) and straight up in the sky is 90°.  Thats what she is referring to.  You have to picture in you mind where the GPS receiver on  a tripod will be and eye level is normal. 

I understand that, but is the 15 degree requirement apply to the entire horizon, or just a sizeable part of it? For instance, I would understand that a point in a canyon or deep valley would be excluded, but would a point one foot away from the wall of a building be excluded, with nearly 90 degrees of horizon missing on one side?

 

BTW, who crashed the NGS website?

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360° clear with the exception of maybe a pole or maybe one object in the landscape. Any point close to a bldg is more then likely of little use for GPS. If you have 90° of the area blocked, that would not be a desirable point and I would call it Not Good For GPS.

 

The object with GPS surveying it to be able to track all of the possible sat's to get a good solution to your position.

 

Here's a good station.

 

MVC-012X.JPG

MVC-007X.JPG

Edited by elcamino

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Simple ?

What about trees.

I have alot of isolated marks in the Forest which do not have this view due to trees.

Is that a (not suitable),for GPS.

Or would it merely be a timing matter,when the leaves are gone.

I have placed a few in the unknown for this reason.

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If they are obstruction then don't call it good. The idea behind this rating is to be able to weed out stations that are no good or marginal so you can search the DB for the very good visibility stations. While a local surveyor might make it work, for high accuracy work its not acceptable.

 

This info is important in planning GPS surveys and you don't want someone traveling hundreds or thousands of miles only to find out the area is not good. Tree's are always going to grow, what may be OK today may be no good in 5 yrs.

 

When they were planning the HARN observations here back in 1995 or so, some of the marks we thought would make good HARN points were rejected by the NGS team because of a lone tree on the horizon. But wouldn't you know, the next day a strong wind blew in and the tree fell over :lol: . They called the wind, Huskvarna :lol:

Edited by elcamino

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Deb,

One quick question RE reports...

 

I'm digging through the stack of all benchmarks withing 3 miles from my house (quite a few) - in the reports, some going back as far as the 30s, there are "destroyed" notes (some even by USGS, or by the company removing them), but the stations are NOT listed as destroyed.

 

What should we do in this case? Email you? Enter a new "destroyed" observation direct, and just reference the docs?

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Yea we have some of those winds too, :lol:

You have to watch out for those Huskavarna winds from the North. :lol:

 

Thanks elcamino,

I was thinking on that line when I submitted the reports.

I do not want to turn in something that may be of question.

Or waste valuable time and resources.

 

I get enough questions as it is.

And my first job at the Map Corps has been very challenging and character building to say the least.

I am already having to do things that I never imagined doing but loving every minute of it.

 

History in the making. :lol:

The Next 200 years,has started. :lol:

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Deb,

One quick question RE reports...

 

I'm digging through the stack of all benchmarks withing 3 miles from my house (quite a few) - in the reports, some going back as far as the 30s, there are "destroyed" notes (some even by USGS, or by the company removing them), but the stations are NOT listed as destroyed.

 

What should we do in this case? Email you? Enter a new "destroyed" observation direct, and just reference the docs?

I suggest that you email her directly at Deb.Brown@noaa.gov

 

I have one near me that is very much like that. See AA8639.

 

I emailed her directly, explained the situation, also referenced AA8640 which is the reset which also mentions that the original was destroyed. She considered there was enough information in the previous reports to mark it as destroyed. So, I would just send her a list of PIDs, provide whatever backup you can (other PIDs that reference the original, your personal visits, etc.) and see what she says.

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So, I would just send her a list of PIDs ...

Been there, done that, got the rejection letter.

 

Send the PID and the designation.

 

This required to make absolutely sure that the mark you enter is the mark you mean and not a typo.

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I'm digging through the stack of all benchmarks withing 3 miles from my house (quite a few) - in the reports, some going back as far as the 30s, there are "destroyed" notes (some even by USGS, or by the company removing them), but the stations are NOT listed as destroyed.

 

What should we do in this case? 

 

I would just send her a list of PIDs, provide whatever backup you can (other PIDs that reference the original, your personal visits, etc.) and see what she says.

I talked with Deb about this a few weeks ago. She explained that a few decades ago, it was common for government surveyors to log the mark as "SEE DESCRIPTION," then in the explanatory notes they would say that the station had been destroyed. Later, it became common to actually log the station as not found.

 

There are a lot of marks that have been lost but are logged as "see description," and if I recall correctly, she doesn't see a need to change those, because "see description" isn't inaccurate. However, if the history summary directly conflicts with the description, then she does want to know about it. So if there's a 1971 history entry that says "MARK NOT FOUND" but the details of that recovery say "Mark found in good condition"--or vice versa--then definitely bring that to her attention.

 

Patty

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10) For the time-being, please include your hand held position in the text portion of the recovery form.

 

Deb, are you encouraging us to enter coordinates into the text field of the recovery report? I always do take a reading, and I post it with my log for the benchmark on Geocaching.com. But I'm only using a consumer-grade GPS receiver and I haven't even been bothering to average the position over a period of time, so I'm skittish about having my readings show up on an official NGS datasheet.

 

Or do you remove the readings from the recovery report and store them in a separate file before you do an update to the datasheet? I.e., you would have the coordinates if you wanted them, but they wouldn't show up in the public datasheet?

 

Patty

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Deb, are you encouraging us to enter coordinates into the text field of the recovery report? I always do take a reading, and I post it with my log for the benchmark on Geocaching.com. But I'm only using a consumer-grade GPS receiver and I haven't even been bothering to average the position over a period of time, so I'm skittish about having my readings show up on an official NGS datasheet.

I logged a recovery this way (SC1037), I just put the handheld coordinates on a separate line. When the datasheet was updated with my entry, I didn't see any reference to it. Not sure where it went, but I'm sure it went somewhere to be used later.

 

The handheld coordinates are certainly better information than a scaled position from a map (+/- 6 seconds); but if the horizontal control was determined from a surveyor's GPS, I don't think handheld coordinates would beat that accuracy, and I wouldn't bother.

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For location-Adjusted PIDs, don't bother measuring or recording their coordinates. Their coordinates are accurate to within an inch. The location-Scaled PID's are the ones that could use some handheld GPSr updating.

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For location-Adjusted PIDs, don't bother measuring or recording their coordinates. Their coordinates are accurate to within an inch. The location-Scaled PID's are the ones that could use some handheld GPSr updating.

That makes sense. Although I just converted my DD MM.MMM readings to DD MM SS for one benchmark (rounding off the seconds, since the NGS datasheets don't have decimal seconds), and the rounding effect was such that my readings came out the same as the ones on the NGS datasheet, even though in DD MM.MMM they were about 150-200 feet different. So unless I find a substantial difference between my readings and the scaled location, I think I'll just not include coordinates in my report.

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Deb, are you encouraging us to enter coordinates into the text field of the recovery report? I always do take a reading, and I post it with my log for the benchmark on Geocaching.com. But I'm only using a consumer-grade GPS receiver and I haven't even been bothering to average the position over a period of time, so I'm skittish about having my readings show up on an official NGS datasheet.

I logged a recovery this way (SC1037), I just put the handheld coordinates on a separate line. When the datasheet was updated with my entry, I didn't see any reference to it. Not sure where it went, but I'm sure it went somewhere to be used later.

NGS does post coordinates in the text as shown in this portion of the datasheet. Noticed I did not try to convert to three decimals for the seconds, just one. Also notice how USPS missed this one by two different searches.

 

AE0348 STATION RECOVERY (1987)

AE0348

AE0348'RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 1987 (GES)

AE0348'MARK NOT FOUND.

AE0348

AE0348 STATION RECOVERY (1987)

AE0348

AE0348'RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 1987 (JEF)

AE0348'MARK NOT FOUND.

AE0348

AE0348 STATION RECOVERY (2004)

AE0348

AE0348'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2004 (TWS)

AE0348'

AE0348'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. RAILROAD STATION, FOUNDATION AND

AE0348'SEMAPHORE ARE GONE. SEMAPHORE BASE STILL EXISTS BUT NOT IN GOOD

AE0348'CONDTION. RAILS SELDOM USED AND MAYBE REMOVED IN NEAR FUTURE.

AE0348'HANDHELD GPS COORDINATES- N26 11 43.0 W098 11 03.9

 

99a03444-6a09-4f8a-a4d5-ccc9148d0e91.jpg

Edited by Colorado Papa

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That makes sense. Although I just converted my DD MM.MMM readings to DD MM SS for one benchmark (rounding off the seconds, since the NGS datasheets don't have decimal seconds), and the rounding effect was such that my readings came out the same as the ones on the NGS datasheet, even though in DD MM.MMM they were about 150-200 feet different. So unless I find a substantial difference between my readings and the scaled location, I think I'll just not include coordinates in my report.

It's not exactly true that datasheets don't have decimal seconds, for instance, this one RD1141 has 5 digits of fractional seconds recorded.

 

I would think that if you round to the nearest second, it should be well in the accuracy range of a handheld GPS - and a number with less than +/- 1 second of accuracy would be better than a number with +/- 6 seconds of accuracy.

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It's not exactly true that datasheets don't have decimal seconds, for instance, this one RD1141 has 5 digits of fractional seconds recorded.

Ah, I just realized that the datasheets I saw that didn't have decimal seconds were ones that had scaled coordinates. The ones such as the one you mentioned have adjusted coordinates. So I think it would be appropriate--and helpful--for me to submit decimal seconds after all.

 

Thanks to all for the clarifications.

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Wintertime -

 

NGS location-Adjusted marks have 5 decimal points for lat, lon.

NGS location-Scaled marks have 0 decimal points for lat, lon.

 

My GPSr, and I think yours has 1 decimal point for lat, lon., and a difference in 1 decimal point amounts to about 17 feet here in Viirginia, which is about the accuracy of the GPSrs we have.

 

The specifications for location-Scaled marks is really LESS than 0 decimal places; it is +- 6 seconds, which is several hundred feet.

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I just noticed some of my recently logged recoveries are showing up on the NGS datasheets. On this one, they (or Deb) left my handheld GPS coordinates in the recovery log entry.

 

AA3536

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Did you enter decimal seconds in your NGS report?  I see zero decimals there.

Nope, that's how I put it on the log entry. I don't have a GPSr (yet), plus in this location, there is now a six story building about 50 feet to the southeast. My reading was after 10 minutes of averaging, I could have put a more precision in the number; but without WAAS, I don't think I could confidently claim a number with more precision than to the nearest second.

 

At any rate, unless the landmark upon which the benchmark is monumented is washed away by a tsunami, I don't think future surveyors will have any trouble finding it from the description.

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http://img.Groundspeak.com/benchmark/lg/61259_100.jpg

 

Would you call that GOOD or POOR? The "27 S" part is readable, but the elevation is marginal.

I would call it in good condition. The condition does not refer to the marker's cosmetic condition, but if you can't clearly read the station designation, you should note that in the recovery entry.

 

The condition refers to the position of the benchmark in the setting. If you found the benchmark in a concrete monument, but the monument was knocked over, then it would be in poor condition, even if the disk itself has been spit polished and shined.

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The condition refers to the position of the benchmark in the setting.  If you found the benchmark in a concrete monument, but the monument was knocked over, then it would be in poor condition, even if the disk itself has been spit polished and shined.

If it is knocked over, that's destroyed.

 

I asked Deb as to how to classify AB0450 and she replied that it was poor condition.

 

73468_100.jpg

Edited by Colorado Papa

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The condition refers to the position of the benchmark in the setting. 

Condition doesn't only refer to the setting. Note these items from Deb's original posting (my emphasis added):

 

"6) A station whose setting is stable and the marker undisturbed or

unmarred is considered to be in "GOOD" condition.

 

7) A station whose setting is unstable but intact ***or the marker broken or

marred or stamping unreadable*** should be listed as "POOR/DISTURBED".

In the text portion of the form explain the condition in detail."

 

So an unstable setting is only one of the reasons for declaring a mark POOR; actual damage to the mark itself is another criterion.

 

Black Dog asked for a clarification about a situation where the marring doesn't affect the unique data on the disk, but in the case of the one I was asking about, it does. Maybe I'll send this one to Deb for a decision.

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Wow,....you all are keeping my eyes busy! I've just now been able to check the sight this week and I see a lot of discussion about a few issues so I'll address them.

 

First,...I'm glad you (Spoo) contacted me personally by email. As I explained in my response, I was dismayed to hear you've had so much trouble getting a response from someone over here. Just make sure you contact me directly and I'll help you if I can.

 

Gadget Freak - and GeoTrailblazer 1 - El Camino had a good response to your postings. Let me know if you need further help.

 

Thanks El Camino,....

 

Urban and Patty,....the Good vs. Poor condition codes can be somewhat of a dilemma because there's some judgement call involved with some of them. If you find a station that has NGS control on it and the condition seems to be questionable then send me a photo via email and we'll work together to determine it's code. I hope I haven't made this confusing. If a setting is stable and the stamping is good enough to identify the station by name but the disk face is marked up I'd call it GOOD. If a disk is still in it's setting but the setting removed it's destroyed. If a disk is gone but the shank remains it's technically destroyed BUT the position might still be usable. I'm sure some of those are listed as destroyed in the database and if you find any let me know because I'd like to change that code to POOR and add an explanation in the text.

 

Ummmm,....Gecko,....as of right now,...you can send me photos without a label in the photo but that may change. AND,...I sent you a "rejection letter". I hope I wasn't that abrupt! :rolleyes: In cases that there's text on the datasheet to substantiate a destroyed report but the condition doesn't match,...send me a list of the pids and designations. I'll make the determination when I look at the text.

 

KC2ixe -- see note to Gecko about the destroyed text etc.

 

Patty -- go ahead and send positions in the text. Only scaled positions should be trumped by a hand held reading.

 

XMASHL - you're coordinates didn't show up in the text of your recovery? If you still have information on that PID and the coordinates send it to me via email and I'll fix that. FYI,...there's no separate place where we're keeping the coordinates,....at least not right now.

 

I hope I got to all of your questions. Email me if you need quicker replies. Thanks to all of you who are answering questions for each other.

 

deb

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MS Deb Brown you don’t know how happy we are that you are helping out on this site

 

( GROUPE HUG )

 

Tennessee Geocacher // Reviewer // Moderator

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This is great! Thanks, Deb, for giving us an "in" and giving a legitmate purpose to what I, at least, consider a "hobby."

 

In regards to the decimal point/s question others have raised, my experience has been with a number of BM set in 1942, and scaled, up to 2 full seconds off both directions. Those I'd feel confident about submitting handheld coordinates on.

 

And I just want to say: BM hunting is so cool! And again, I really appreciate Deb popping in to give us guidelines and feedback.

 

Just my thoughts :rolleyes:

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Hi Deb (et al),

 

I haven't been active much over the last few months but that's going to be changing real soon now.

 

In the mean time I've been working on automating moving waypoints, tracks, etc. between my Pocket Queries, datasheet sets, etc. between ExpertGPS, Plucker, GeoNiche, etc. etc. etc. .... okay, I'm a geek, I admit it :rolleyes:

 

Anyhow, what I wanted to find out was if there was any news on the progress on adopting the XML format for dataseets that was mentioned here some time ago? I've got the schema and am sorely tempted to write an app to extract the XML from a .dat file but if I knew that it was coming down the pipe from the source some time soon then I wouldn't bother.

 

Any news?

 

Thanks!

Bruce.

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I hope that by helping each other we gain each others trust and admiration

(TEAM WORK).

 

We will all disagree at points but that helps the diversity of the (TEAM).

 

As long as we respect each others right to have our opinions we will go far and make leaps and bounds as to where (ALL)of us were just a few years ago.

 

I am truly honored to be a part of this group no matter what I might say. :tired:

to the contrary...............

 

Thanks again Deb,(ET./AL) for your persistance in watching the page.

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Deb -

 

Regarding photos (this is not an exact quote, as I fixed this just a bit because of the smileys):

 

=============

9) At present, we are working on adding the options of photo submissions and hand held gps positions to the online recovery form. It's not available yet. Until it is you can send me photos via email of stations if they meet the following criteria:

 

a ) The file size must be a meg or less.

 

b ) The name of the file MUST be

PID_YYYYMMDD_A.JPG <or>

PID_YYYYMMDD_C.JPG

(IN ALL CAPS)

 

c ) I need 2 photos of each marker, one area (_A) with a background

reference object and one close-up (_C) showing the stamping.

 

d ) Photos cannot contain images of anything inappropriate or people/pets.

============

 

I have a couple of questions that pertain to the future time when the NGS allows this. The reason that I ask these questions now is that people are taking pictures of marks now that they might wish to submit to the NGS in the future.

 

I am looking at pictures submitted to the Geocaching site and am wondering about what would be the minimum acceptable on the NGS site in the future.

 

1. Regarding item c, I notice that several people are submitting ONLY a disk close-up photograph and no area photograph. Will submitting only one photo be acceptable?

 

2. Regarding item d, I notice that several people are submitting a close-up picture with their GPS receiver in the view (and sometimes in the area view). Will this be acceptable?

 

3. Regarding in particular "with a background reference object", I often fail to include in the photo one of the reference objects specifically mentioned in the 'to-reach' description, and instead just show where the marker is in relation to something, like the edge of a road or a fence. Would this be acceptable?

 

4. Quite often in an area view picture, the disk's position is rather unclear without putting an arrow in the picture. Would arrows in pictures be acceptable?

 

5. If, for instance, next Wednesday is the day that the NGS changes their Mark Recovery page to one that allows picture uploads, will it be acceptable for us to upload pictures taken, for example, 10 months ago in a new mark recovery submitted with a recovery date 10 months ago, provided no recovery note had been submitted since then?

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Deb -

I have a couple of questions that pertain to the future time when the NGS allows this.  The reason that I ask these questions now is that people are taking pictures of marks now that they might wish to submit to the NGS in the future.

All good questions but I wonder how often Deb reads this subject. Best to email her??? However, I'd like to see the answers.

Let me add another question about the picture file name. Is this an example of what the file name should be? KJ004020040528A.jpg

 

I'd like you all to feel free to email me at Deb.Brown@noaa.gov or use this forum to post your questions. Emailing me would be best for an expedient answer.
Edited by Colorado Papa

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I could have emailed her and have before, but I figured her answers wouldn't be interesting to only me, so I posted to her special hanging topic :blink:.

 

Good question about the filename. Are the _ literal or not.

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Good question about the filename.  Are the _ literal or not.

I sure missed her comment about emailing her pictures. Glad you brought the subject back to attention.

Think I'll start using this format for future uploads until I hear differently. But how do we handle two or more views of the area- A1, A2, ...? Or are we limited to just one area shot?

 

As a footnote about taking closeups, I find that carrying a box of cornstarch with me sure makes the lettering standout better. Anyone have better ideas? Cornstarch is very inexpensive. But I find I get the camera all covered as well. Maybe I should use a salt shaker and a Kleenex.

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Colorado,

I am thinking the format would be KJ0040_20040528_A.jpg, which separates the components of the name visually. The underlines are often used in the computer world to replace spaces, since until later versions of Windows spaces in a file name were not allowed. If they are storing these files on a mainframe computer they may need the underlines also. I still do it out of habit, from my old DOS days.

 

Cool idea on the corn starch. I often get marks that are unreadable in the photo, and that would help. Salt shaker isn't a bad idea either. I carry too much stuff as it is and a box of corn starch would be a bit much.

Edited by mloser

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But a regular piece of white chalk,or a Yellow lumber crayon works good and they are light.

Been there. Done that. Thumbs down. :D

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Just wet it with water, that almost always work for me..

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But a regular piece of white chalk,or a Yellow lumber crayon works good and they are light.

Been there. Done that. Thumbs down. ;)

I just suggested it.I use the dirt from the benchmark,they are almost always covered here.

A little swipe with the rag and all work out well.

The one's that have been worn severly are the one's I was speaking of.

I have also uced a carpenters pencil.

Anything to get a more detailed picture.

 

Since I got the new camera I have had very little problems.

Edited by GEO*Trailblazer 1

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I am thinking the format would be KJ0040_20040528_A.jpg, which separates the components of the name visually.

Just got a "Perfect" reply back from Deb about some pics sent to her couple weeks ago using the format KJ004020040528A.jpg. She probably would say the same using your format. :lol:

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Hi all,....I bet you thought I forgot about you. NEVER! :blink: I had to be out of the office for an extended period of time due to a family emergency and have been playing "catch-up" with my "regular" work ever since.

 

I see from the vast number of posts that you all have continued your valuable work for us. That, and seeing the number of recoveries you are submitting to us here at NGS. THANKS!

 

Rather than trying to catch up with all your posts and writing individual responses to you here on this site, please email me at Deb.Brown@noaa.gov if you have any questions that haven't been answered by your fellow hunters. I'll try to check in here regularly to see what's happening.

 

Thanks again everybody,...deb

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