You'll get a laugh from this.

May 24, 2002

Look at this virtual cache:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=23226

Scroll to a post on May 23 by smithdw, look at the picture they posted. The picture is dated 2-6-1999 in the lower right corner, to me it looks as if he superimposed his GPS into the picture.

[This message was edited by ABXGuy on May 24, 2002 at 09:29 PM.]

3.9k · May 24, 2002

If I could point out something that you may not have thought of....maybe he just dosent have the date on his camera set correctly?? How many VCRs in this world are flashing 12:00 right now??

Just a thought.

Happy geocaching.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

3.9k · May 24, 2002

If I could point out something that you may not have thought of....maybe he just dosent have the date on his camera set correctly?? How many VCRs in this world are flashing 12:00 right now??

Just a thought.

Happy geocaching.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

1.4k · May 24, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ABXGuy:
The picture is dated 2-6-1999 in the lower right corner, he obviously superimposed his GPS into the picture and then logged it as found.

I'm no expert, but it doesn't look superimposed to me. Usually when you superimpose one picture over another, you get very sharp edges on the picture that was laid on top. I don't see that in this picture. The edges of the hand and GPS are blurry, and blend well with the background. Either this is a very well done fake, or else the guy doesn't know how to set the date on his camera.

Also, it's not like the guys been racking up huge numbers. 61 whole finds in almost a year.

May 24, 2002

Considering the expertise he professes in his profile, if he can't program the date on his camera, I wonder how he performs on the job?

And it looks like a stray shadow on the underside of that GPS... but hey, I didn't look too close.

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda, Jedi Master from Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

May 24, 2002

Honestly I don't think that pic is a fraud. As one who goofs around alot making spoof pics to amuse friends I can spot a "pasted" pic...... The camera is simply focused towards a distant point. Seems like the flash might of lit up his hand a tad......As for the camera date, hell my digital constantly defaults to '98 due to a broken/loose battery hatch........Nope... This pic's real.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"Whad'ya mean you didn't save the location of the truck?..EEEK!!!..."

May 24, 2002

Open mouth insert foot. My apologies to smithdw, embarrassment was not intended at all. I simply was browsing the pictures, noticed the date thing, and had to laugh.

I once took a family picture and wanted to include our dog in the picture. I couldn't get him to sit still long enough for the timer to snap the picture. I took the picture without him then took a separate picture of him and superimposed it into the family portrait. Totally un-noticeable by everyone. I even had some professional prints made from the file and gave them to family. Then one day someone noticed that the picture I used to superimpose the dogs image in also included his tail in the bottom right corner as he walked out the first picture, which I did not notice. Oooops! I was caught.

http://mail.chartermi.net/~rfruediger/family.jpg

[This message was edited by ABXGuy on May 24, 2002 at 09:30 PM.]

1k · May 24, 2002

The angles of the shadows match, the date shown on the GPS is 5/23/02, the coords shown on the GPS are very near the coords he's posted, and the location is in Klamath Falls, OR. The shadow that is showing under the GPS is clearly caused by something that is blocked from view by the GPS. Notice how the shadow "breaks" at the curb. If the shadow had been caused by the GPS being held in front of a photo, the shadow line would be straight at that point.

Worldtraveler

May 24, 2002

I met smithdw the other day in klamath falls less that a mile from said K. It seems to me that it would be much harder to doctor a pic than to just walk 5 blocks and snap one.

3.5k · May 24, 2002

Yes, I was going to point that out too. The angle of the shadows match on his hand and in the distance. Looks good.

3.1k · May 24, 2002

I think that pic is just outside his front door. That K is spotted all over Klamath. No reason on earth to fake it.

Now be a good guy and apologize to smithdw. I met him for the first time a few days ago, very nice guy. He's fairly new to the hobby and racking up those logs like crazy.

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

1k · May 25, 2002

OK ... I need a life ... but I took it into Photoshop and examined it on a pixel level ... I couldn't find the tale-tell breaks along the edge ... although that can be cleaned up if you take the time ... my vote is it's legit.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

May 25, 2002

I think what you are seeing that makes you think it is faked, it that the lighting on the hand, doesn't match the lighting in the background scene. He had the flash on the camara on, and this is the effect you get. That shadow under the GPS is probably a car parked on the street that is hidden behind the GPS.

In the GPS model of the universe, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line...through creeks, thorn bushes, horse piles, whatever....

May 25, 2002

The family pic looks good, funnny about the tail. If it wasnt for the extra dog parts I am sure family and friends would have never known.

May 25, 2002

The family pic looks good, funnny about the tail. If it wasnt for the extra dog parts I am sure family and friends would have never known.

May 25, 2002

While I don't know smithdw and the above accounts indicate no reason to fake the photo, there are three areas of the photo that caught my attention.

The first is the shadow below the GPS. If it is part of the GPS then it looks OK, but if it is supposed to be a shadow I would ask why that shadow is black while all other shadows in the photo are grey. Check out the shadows under the other cars.

The second is where the GPS meets the telephone pole. Pixel problems there. Just doesn't look right.

The third is an area on the hillside right where the finger meets the GPS. The pixels appear to have been smudged using the "smudge" tool. Why? All other pixels are precisely rendered, those are not.

There are probably explanations for all of these, and I am in no way implying that the photo is a fake, but those areas caught my eye.

All of these items were noticed under high magnification using Photoshop. As far as tampering being evident, it is easy to cover it up. Feather the edges, resample the image, etc.

Here's one of me with Abe Lincoln. What do you think? Real or fake?

May 25, 2002

The shadow below the GPS looks like a parked car. It's darker compared to the other vehicles shadows because it is a shadow on asphalt and grass. The other vehicles lighter shadows are on cement.

Just my observations.

May 25, 2002

The shadow below the GPS looks like a parked car. It's darker compared to the other vehicles shadows because it is a shadow on asphalt and grass. The other vehicles lighter shadows are on cement.

Just my observations.

May 25, 2002

TrailTek,

I think you're right. I didn't notice the others were on cement.

Also, the pixels near the telephone pole could be a JPG compression issue.

As I said, I have no reason to think it was faked.

May 25, 2002

As long as we're having fun, if you bump both the brightness and contrast way up and look at the shadow below the GPS receiver, you can see the grass and the curb in the shadowed area. Also, there is what appears to me to be a nearly end-on look at a tire with a bright hubcap, which would indicate that the object making the shadow is a vehicle parallel parked on the street.

May 25, 2002

So while I read the posts here it occured to me that this would be a most excellent place to have UFO pictures examined! What a wealth of knowledge!!!

Any cachers stuble on aliens while caching...the live or almost live variety... and post pictures...?

I say "Bring em on"

Dx

"Have you no news on your travels?" the Book of fairy & folk tales of Ireland (1888)

May 25, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DxChallenged:

Any cachers stuble on aliens while caching...the live or almost live variety... and post pictures...?

I say "Bring em on"

Me? I quite frequently experience "alien stuble"... especially sometime around the second day after shaving. That stuble is most certainly alive, but I am absolutely positive that you DON'T want to see my photographic proof.

Sorry, DX... just playing!

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda, Jedi Master from Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

1k · May 25, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ClayJar:..... which would indicate that the object making the shadow is a vehicle parallel parked on the street.

Big stinking deal clayjar ... but can you tell that it's 1,578 miles overdue for an oil change ... huh .... boy some expert ... missed all the important details ... geesh

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

1k · May 25, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ClayJar:..... which would indicate that the object making the shadow is a vehicle parallel parked on the street.

Big stinking deal clayjar ... but can you tell that it's 1,578 miles overdue for an oil change ... huh .... boy some expert ... missed all the important details ... geesh

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

May 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DxChallenged:
So while I read the posts here it occured to me that this would be a most excellent place to have UFO pictures examined! What a wealth of knowledge!!!

Any cachers stuble on aliens while caching...the live or almost live variety... and post pictures...?

I say "Bring em on"

May 26, 2002

My vote is that the picture is real & he just doesn't know how to set the date in the camera. Cropping out the date would of been easier than superimposing the picture.

People can be good in one field and challenged in another. I once knew a major Atlanta lawyer who lived in penthouse apartment during the week and a family home in NC on the weekend. Almost every time he needed to use his VCR he would pay me $60/hr to show him how.

BTW... I wonder if he knows he has an entire topic dedicated to him.

May 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DxChallenged:
So while I read the posts here it occured to me that this would be a most excellent place to have UFO pictures examined! What a wealth of knowledge!!!

Any cachers stuble on aliens while caching...the live or almost live variety... and post pictures...?

I say "Bring em on"

I have a friend that collects pictures that have mysterious orbs in them.

May 26, 2002

I have worked in the graphic arts field for some time and find some times it's hard to tell with a jpg. I do find it odd that there is no glare or reflection from a flash on the face of his GPS. The pixels do look odd around the telephone poll. But everyone has brought up some really good points, especially if he lives really close to where the cache is. I really can't say either way. So here is my solution, has anyone emailed him and asked? Maybe he is just seeing who has been paying attention. Or maybe he will be surprised anyone ever thought it could be fake. Only he knows!

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

May 26, 2002

I have worked in the graphic arts field for some time and find some times it's hard to tell with a jpg. I do find it odd that there is no glare or reflection from a flash on the face of his GPS. The pixels do look odd around the telephone poll. But everyone has brought up some really good points, especially if he lives really close to where the cache is. I really can't say either way. So here is my solution, has anyone emailed him and asked? Maybe he is just seeing who has been paying attention. Or maybe he will be surprised anyone ever thought it could be fake. Only he knows!

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

3.1k · May 26, 2002

quote:
So here is my solution, has anyone emailed him and asked?

No reason to ask. Smith is an honest guy. Don't get silly kids. Too many nitpickers.

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

May 26, 2002

I don't see anything in the pic that would indicate fakeness. But even if they did superimpose the image, it took more effort than most locationless caches. Also, I would think by examining the trees, it would indicate the camera date is wrong. With the exception of evergreens, most trees ain't exactly covered in leaves in early February. But while we're on the subject of doctored pics, ABX, couldn't you have at least drawn smiley faces on the whited out heads in the dog of two tails pic?

Ever notice everybody is willing to give THEIR 2 cents worth but only offer a penny for YOUR thoughts?

[This message was edited by pater47 on May 26, 2002 at 08:15 PM.]

May 26, 2002

I don't see anything in the pic that would indicate fakeness. But even if they did superimpose the image, it took more effort than most locationless caches. Also, I would think by examining the trees, it would indicate the camera date is wrong. With the exception of evergreens, most trees ain't exactly covered in leaves in early February. But while we're on the subject of doctored pics, ABX, couldn't you have at least drawn smiley faces on the whited out heads in the dog of two tails pic?

Ever notice everybody is willing to give THEIR 2 cents worth but only offer a penny for YOUR thoughts?

[This message was edited by pater47 on May 26, 2002 at 08:15 PM.]

May 26, 2002

Well, at least his fingernails are clean.

May 26, 2002

Well, at least his fingernails are clean.

May 27, 2002

I guess that some of you have a lot of extra time on your hands. The reason that the date was wrong is that the camera needed to be reset after the batteries died a couple days earlier. At the time the picture was taken, I didn't notice that the date/time was reset to it's default. We didn't even have the camera until I gave it to my girlfriend on her birthday in August of 2000. In case you want to know, it's a Kodak DC280. If you REALLY want to, I can drive over to the other side of town and take another picture with the date and time set correctly. Like I said, you people have too much time on your hands. Go out and do something productive with your lives. Me - I'm just having fun finding geocaches in my spare time when I'm not working and taking care of my family and my house.

3.1k · May 27, 2002

Well you know I believed you. Yes some people need a life around here.

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

May 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by smithdw:
I can drive over to the other side of town and take another picture with the date and time set correctly.

Nah! This was much more fun!

quote:
Like I said, you people have too much time on your hands. Go out and do something productive with your lives.

Productive? The Enquirer would probably pay big bucks for my alien photo.

Seriously, the Abe Lincoln photo is from a cache I am designing based on real Civil War caches, so I am being productive. (For the record, Yes that's Abe, Yes that's me, and Yes, that's a fake.)

4.5k · May 27, 2002

I was going to suggest that this could have been nipped in the bud very quickly with someone emailing smithdw so that he could defend himself if he felt so inclined to do so. His date was off, well big whoop ti dooo!

This is a fun hobby and most of us are very truthful with it. Shouldnt really matter to us about those few that choose to fibricate! They're just cheating themselves. Now if someone post a BIG prize or some special recognition for the person with the most finds, then maybe we have an issue!

May 28, 2002

We were in K falls this weekend and Smithdw is a very prolific cacher in the area. That K is visible from just about anywhere in town, and yes, I myself have had issues with battery failure and dates wrong on cameras. I now tend to turn off the date stamper just because I hate having a perfectly good picture ruined by having the wrong date. Yes we are all gadget geeks here, but juggling so many things (gps, palmpilot, camera, spare batteries, print outs, cacheables, cache book so you can post your find later on the page, bug spray, sunblock, sunglasses, etc... well this seems pretty minor.

May 28, 2002

We were in K falls this weekend and Smithdw is a very prolific cacher in the area. That K is visible from just about anywhere in town, and yes, I myself have had issues with battery failure and dates wrong on cameras. I now tend to turn off the date stamper just because I hate having a perfectly good picture ruined by having the wrong date. Yes we are all gadget geeks here, but juggling so many things (gps, palmpilot, camera, spare batteries, print outs, cacheables, cache book so you can post your find later on the page, bug spray, sunblock, sunglasses, etc... well this seems pretty minor.

May 28, 2002

Personally, I think that picture is a fake.

But another thing, I don't think that this is a very good kind of a cache. I have an ACTUAL CACHE up nearby one of these letters so people have to hike up there to find it (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=21387). Do you think people are actually going to take these coordinates people have listed and visit them? This is just an easy way for people to get a find. This isn't anything like what I believe is Geocaching and I'm actually really surprised it was approved. I mean, yeah, it's a nice idea, but what does it have to do with Geocaching or usage of your GPS or finding of a cache? Just because they want a picture of a letter that shows your GPS in it doesn't mean that it should be a cache. That's just my opinion though.

I am the Rabbit King, I can do anything

May 30, 2002

Sorry about the productive statement. I think that it might be a good idea to turn off the date stamping too. We normally use the camera for other things like taking pictures for our website and of our son. I just was slightly irritated about someone questioning my honesty and integrity. I have been through about 4 criminal and other background checks for things like my job which requires federal background checks, adult foster care, ATM servicing (seeing about $50K in cash in an ATM inside a bank is quite a sight) and our sons adoption. I regard myself as being very honest. I would never fake a pic just to get a cache. Now on to more fun finding and placing more caches. BTW, the Klamath Falls/Medford area has a ton of caches in case anyone wants to find a whole bunch at one time. Everyone is welcome to try out some of our sometimes very unique clues and caches. There is about 310 within a 100 mile radius of my house, with about 100 or so within 20 miles.

May 30, 2002

Okay Smithdw, if that is your REAL name! Your explaination sounds convincing, but how do you explain that shadowy figure in the grassy knoll?

Hmmm? Tell me that!

hehehehe

In the GPS model of the universe, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line...through creeks, thorn bushes, horse piles, whatever....

May 30, 2002

Okay Smithdw, if that is your REAL name! Your explaination sounds convincing, but how do you explain that shadowy figure in the grassy knoll?

Hmmm? Tell me that!

hehehehe

In the GPS model of the universe, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line...through creeks, thorn bushes, horse piles, whatever....

May 30, 2002

quote:
Okay Smithdw, if that is your REAL name! Your explaination sounds convincing, but how do you explain that shadowy figure in the grassy knoll?

Speaking of which, the Warren Commission has found that this Travel Bug was solely responsible for that event.

May 31, 2002

Hey SmithDw...

We adopted to. 12 years ago from Columbia South America. My husband remembered more checks for that than for qualifying to work for the Federal Government........

You live in Oregon.....Would you be interested in being in my latest quilt project? I don't have any quilt squares there. Cachers sign a small (3") square when they find a cache and they get sent back to me to sew up a quilt...Will be given to one of the cachers who places them in a cache.....

Whoops is this off topic

Parents are staying with us for the week so I'm a bit disoriented

DxChallenged

"Have you no news on your travels?" the Book of fairy & folk tales of Ireland (1888)

May 31, 2002

Hey SmithDw...

We adopted to. 12 years ago from Columbia South America. My husband remembered more checks for that than for qualifying to work for the Federal Government........

You live in Oregon.....Would you be interested in being in my latest quilt project? I don't have any quilt squares there. Cachers sign a small (3") square when they find a cache and they get sent back to me to sew up a quilt...Will be given to one of the cachers who places them in a cache.....

Whoops is this off topic

Parents are staying with us for the week so I'm a bit disoriented

DxChallenged

"Have you no news on your travels?" the Book of fairy & folk tales of Ireland (1888)

May 31, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cliffy:
Honestly I don't think that pic is a fraud. As one who goofs around alot making spoof pics to amuse friends I can spot a "pasted" pic...... The camera is simply focused towards a distant point. Seems like the flash might of lit up his hand a tad......As for the camera date, hell my digital constantly defaults to '98 due to a broken/loose battery hatch........Nope... This pic's real.

apart from the folks who know him, and can attest to him... the following is just an examination of the photo b/c i'm bored...

you'll notice that the black blob is a car shadow. as noted above, it's darker b/c it on asphalt below, and darker to the right b/c it's a wider object (all umbra, no penumbra)

further, notice the 'parallel red lines' for the shadow casting... they match.

it's out of focus and brighter thanks to the flash saturation and being macro-distance with what is likely a stock lens...

wrong date: back-up batt. is dead, so when changing batts, it resets to bios default date...

May 31, 2002

when i posted- about 20 new messages appeared when the screen refreshed... seems things were settled when i posted- (but didn't seem that way when I began photoshop'ing

didn't mean to come across like beating a dead horse....

May 31, 2002

when i posted- about 20 new messages appeared when the screen refreshed... seems things were settled when i posted- (but didn't seem that way when I began photoshop'ing

didn't mean to come across like beating a dead horse....

You'll get a laugh from this.

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