+HartClimbs Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I've come across some unfriendly wildlife backpacking in the past and when ignoring them didn't work, I've always done fine with a handy stick or making noise, but I figured I'd post a quick ? to see if anyone had any tried-and-true methods for (non-lethally) discouraging animals (ie. wild dogs and such) which may not like you intruding in their territory? I'm finding that my geocaching travels take me to less than pristine areas (ie. crappy swamps and flood plains) where I'm more likely to run into a junkyard dog! Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 A rattlesnake I encountered blocking my path in the Catskills didn't respond to my hitting it with a small rock. In fact it just seemed to piss it off more. I finally had to adjust my route to get around it. The bears I've encountered have all seemed to be more afraid of me than I was of them and high tailed it out of my way. I think a pack of feral dogs would concern me the most. I haven't run into one yet, but I've heard of people who have in NY's Harriman State Park and in the Pequannock Watershed in NJ. I'd guess maybe I should be packing pepper spray. Between that and my hiking pole I could hopefully keep them at bay. A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater Quote Link to comment
Orions Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I go biking often at Sharkvally Park down here in the everglades (no sharks here) and run into Gators that love to lie in the middle of the road in the afternoon/evening hours. They do it for the heat the ground gives off. I found that they ignore you if you try to make any noise and DONT try to throw rocks or anything to get them to move away, most of them will think your throwing food and WILL come closer. I have yet to find a way to get them to move since most of them are not scare of people. I usually get a head start and ride right pass them as fast as I can or I just turn around. Quote Link to comment
+HartClimbs Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Hadn't even thought of gators! I think feral dogs or other aggressive animals (ie. you can't just walk around them) were more of mind in the original post. I figured cyclists and joggers have similar issues and found this: Tips For Dealing With "Man's Best Friend" When Riding Your Bike I've played golf down in Florida where I could have sworn the gators were plastic and put out for the tourists to gawk at (they were shiny and didn't move at all). That was until I saw one move off the fairway into the lagoon! [This message was edited by HartClimbs on February 24, 2003 at 12:51 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Dersu Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Just happened on to this news story. A lady lost a arm to a gator while doing lawn work. Sooooooo, you don't even have to go to the woods. They will come to your home. I have flouted the wild, I have followed its lure, fearless. familar, alone; yet the wild must win, and a day will come when I shall be overthrown. By: Robert Service Quote Link to comment
+Desert_Warrior Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 who doesn't know what a Texan would do. We seem to be getting a reputation here! Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
+CWL Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 You can see Salvo's log here. #153 9/29/2002 @1045hrs -I arrived at the park and was immediately impressed with this jem of a park. The state had gone to some measure to make it a nice place to visit. I found the info boards very informative as I hiked towards the cache. Along the way, I spied a big box turtle making his way across the path. I briefly thought about picking him up to bring home to my kids, but then thought better of it. 1 turtle, and 11 kids equal an instant fight. Besides there wouldn't be enough of him to go around. Move along little fella... I get into the general vicinity of the cache, and my GPS starts going bonkers due to tree cover. I line up and get cross bearings from a number of different compass points, and after marching around a bit, and 45 minutes later, I spot the cache and am about to pull the cache when I hear a snap. I come out of my cache find euphoria and look in the direction to see what.. a dog? No.. RAZORBACK!! He's about 40ft from me. My first thought is the yell ''GIT!'', and I threw my GPS at him (Looking back on that, WHAT was I thinking!), then I threw my Cellular at him, then I threw my green cache bag at him -all missing the pig. SNORT!!! He's already mad at me for being in his turf, and now he's madder. All I see are tusks, fur, and leaves flying as he charges. I back pedaled around a tree behind me, and this sucker's fast, and can spin on a dime. As I have nothing left to use, my ''fight'' instincts now shifted over to ''flight''. I turned and jumped for this wide tree behind me. (TIME FREEZE) Have you ever had this happen to you when you did something really stupid? This happened at this time. As soon as I made contact with the tree, the base of the tree snapped, and down she went. While on the way down... I had plenty of time to reflect on the stupidity of this act, as well as had the thought that this was going to hurt... Seemed like I was falling for 5 minutes. (TIME Continue) The tree and I hit the ground together, at which time I took a shot to the jewels from the trunk. As the tree hits, there's a crash, and twigs and sticks are flying. In between the stars and black spots I'm seeing, I hear a loud ''Sqweeeeee!!!'' as the Razorback runs off. I extracated myself from the tree, and limped around in a daze for a moment. Ow!! I'm mad now, and am about to give out one of those Arnold Schwartzenegger/Preditor War yells, but decide better of it, as it'd probably come out sounding more like a shrill schoolgirl squeal, given my current condition. That'll leave a mark... I picked up my GPS, Phone, and Bag and walked back out to the paved trail and back to my truck. I'm in shock. Once back at the truck, I realized that I hadn't opened the cache. Hmmm, I'm not going back IN there, not without some Artillary and Heavy Hardware! A little later in the day, I was exhausted and called my wife to let her know I was on my way back early. I hadn't told her this story. When I got home, she had my dinner ready ..Pork Chops! My wife ...I gotta love her! Took nothing, but left a bunch of small items that flew out of my bag. Time to take a break, then next cache: ''Flying Fortress''. Quote Link to comment
+Dave_W6DPS Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 The animal that scares me most when out with the troop is the common domestic dog. You never know how a dog is going to react when you meet it on the trail--and usually the owner doesn't either. There is not animal native to North America that causes as many injuries and deaths every year! I work for an electric company, and we spend quite a bit on training for our meter readers each year on how to handle dog encounters. Our most common OSHA recordable injury is dog bite. Half the people out there are below median intelligence--and so are their dogs. The only bears that have caused me concerned are the ones accustomed to being fed by stupid people. They lose their natural distrust of all things human and actually come to associate humans with handouts. If you do encounter a bear in the San Bernardino or San Gabriel mountain in SoCal, be sure to keep all your hands in. Simple rules for wild animals, from an experiences hiker and scout leader: 1. Keep your eyes open; try to spot the animals around you, so you won't be surprised. 2. Make sure the animal knows you are there! Wild animals don't like surprises, either... 3. Never put an animal in a position that would make it feel cornered! 4. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FEED A WILD ANIMAL!!! (Yes, I was shouting!) Animals that associate humans with food are in for trouble--and may cause humans a lot of trouble, too. 5. All wild animals are wild animals! Those with hooves are some of the most dangerous. Don't assume that it can only hurt you if it has big teeth and/or claws. Bites and scratches from squirrels and birds can be very nasty and prone to infection. I have had nothing but positive encouters with wild animals--not something I can say about dogs... My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only) Quote Link to comment
Cracker. Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Desert_Warrior:who doesn't know what a Texan would do. We seem to be getting a reputation here! Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Hehehehe... Actually I have a friend here in Western NY that might fit that bill, too.... The 2nd time I ever met him, I pulled in his driveway and got out of my truck. He was on the riding mower, mowing the lawn. He drives over and shuts off the mower. I notice he has a beer in one hand, and a .357 in a shoulder holster on the other side. He said he uses it to shoot the garden snakes that pop up when he mows...I think he just likes to hear the noise... Art www.yankeetoys.org www.BudBuilt.com http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/ Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 We had an idiot here in NJ who was hiking with his kids. They encountered a bear and Einstein decided to feed it a bagel to draw it in closer so he could get a photo. On the way back they again encountered Smokey and of course he wanted some more bagels (The best bagels are made in NJ, so who would blame him?). The bear reached out and clawed one of the guy's kids. Nothing major, just some scratches on his chest. Of course the rangers had to come in and put the bear down because it "attacked" a human. Dad was taken to court and was socked with a hefty fine. I think he should have been whipped and put in stocks. It's a shame we don't allow that kind of punishment anymore...it would have been very appropriate. A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater Quote Link to comment
+wolf&mist Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 When I was in the Air Force, we learned to march and make our heels "thump" with each step. When using this technique in the woods, most wildlife will vacate the area. This is really true for snakes and such that "feel" vibrations. For those animals that don't move, DO NOT make direct eye contact unless you are really up to the challenge. The best thing to do is go around, without exposing your backside. I often carry a firm walking stick with me and always have my pocket knife. Preparedness is the key, and I was not a Boy Scout! Si quando audius mihi infremus, tum videlicet quoque tardus Quote Link to comment
Bender Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I like to go caching with a friend. A slow friend. That way I only have to out-run him. Hey Caprine Shepard, wanna go caching?? Quote Link to comment
Blackfoot Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 The best non-lethel way I have found is to blast off a couple of rounds from the 357. With snake shot in the pistole, and fire it into the air. It seems to scare them off most of the time. Blackfoot Life is a gift, unwrap it and use it to the fullest! Quote Link to comment
+Desert_Warrior Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by CWL: This is a log from a fellow cacher in Memphis... You can see Salvo's log HERE. I would have loved to see his face as that tree snapped off. I bet it was like Indiana Jones when he was facing the assassin with the sword and realized he had lost his pistol. HOWEVER... This is a good example of just one of the bad things that can happen to you when you are out and away from civilization. And I still contend the 2 legged animals are more dangerous than the 4 legged variety. Everyone needs to evaluate the idea of defense against whatever threat you think you might encounter. Defense and self-preservation is a natural right. God gave it to every living thing, from the elephant that stomps you to the flea that bites you. What makes a man a man is tools. It is the use of tools that puts man at the top of the food chain. The personal choice comes in when you make the decision to either not defend yourself and be quickly stompped, use a less efficient tool, and prolong the stomping a bit, or use a very efficient tool and get stompped when you run out of ammo and the dead creature falls on you. Some choice. I still would have loved to see his face. And again, when he saw what was for dinner! Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
+Searching_ut Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I fairly recently bought a container of bear spray, as some areas are evidently requiring it now for backpackers. I don't know if it works though, and the container is big enough I don't carry it around with me so I suppose for the most part it isn't of any real use. As for creatures that bother you, I've had dogs scare me on occasion, but never had trouble with them. Last weekend, while hiking a canyon I had discovered caching, I noticed a mountain lion stalking me for about half a mile. I found that somewhat strange in that normally they take a quick look and dissapear again. This one was working his way along the mountain side up above me for quite some time. For what it's worth Jeff Quote Link to comment
+Logscaler and Red Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 You really want to get your heart rate up ? Just listen to the buzz of a big Timber Rattler on the trail, five feet BEHIND you !! logscaler. Quote Link to comment
+Hiemdahl Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 That is when you are stepping over a clump of vegetation and hear a rattlesnake BELOW you. Trust me, it does give you pause to reflect. Quote Link to comment
+HartClimbs Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 I picked up a can of HALT canine repellent (aka pepper spray) at my local bike store. It's similar to what Postal Carriers use to discourage dogs and such. It's tiny and weighs next to nothing. Too small for bears (they make a much larger and powerful version for Bear country) but should at least give me something small to stash in my pack to keep any dogs at bay (without harming them). Might come in handy with some of the urban caches in these locales as well! [This message was edited by HartClimbs on February 25, 2003 at 12:43 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 quote:Is there anyone reading this who doesn't know what a Texan would do. We seem to be getting a reputation here! Talk them to death? I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
Micqn Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 When I was a kid I rode a paper route for a little over 7 years on a bike and I always carried a squirt bottle with watered down ammonia in it. Whenever a dog started at me I sprayed it in the face. Ammonia doesn't smell good let alone taste good. It worked very well. Happy. Hunting. Quote Link to comment
Geo Quest Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 The only thing I have to worry about is stepping on a slug. "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something." -- Plato Quote Link to comment
+Logscaler and Red Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Well, I had to think about it a little while but as for the most unfriendly critter I have been around in a long time was Red about two years ago. We where out hiking in South Central Oregon looking at a rock wall with several hundred ancient rock carvings on it when I heard a buzz from a snake and heard a gasp from Red. She was standing straddle of a rock pile and a large buzztail was trying to come out of said rock pile. I poked the snake a couple times with a tripod leg and it went back into the pile. Then the critter I am married to got real unfriendly. I think I would have rather dealt with the snake for the next several hours. logscaler. Quote Link to comment
+georgeandmary Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by logscaler:You really want to get your heart rate up ? Just listen to the buzz of a big Timber Rattler on the trail, five feet BEHIND you !! logscaler. During the summer every lizard that scuries through the dry leaves sounds like a rattler to me. dadgum lizards. george Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more. Quote Link to comment
The 2 Dogs Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Perhaps the scariest encounter I have had with creatures during my caching occurred one day when I was returning from placing a cache nearby my home on the outskirts of Sydney Australia. I was walking between 2 sunny rock shelves when all of a sudden there was a commotion and a Red Belly Black snake fell off the shelf and onto the track just ahead of me. This species of snake is very timid but they are a big imposing snake with potent venom and shiny black scaling. This guy was about 6 or 7 feet in length I guess. This was not unusual in itself, as I am used to seeing snakes all over the place but this time of year I didn't expect to see any so I wasn't wearing gaiters. What happened next was the scary part. Seconds after the Black had fallen onto the track another snake fell on top of it. This was a very different snake however, it was an Eastern Brown. These are much smaller than the Red Belly but their venom is very deadly in fact they rate as one of the most deadly snakes in the world having been responsible for the deaths of many a bushwalker. The two coiled and wriggled eventually parting company and the black wriggled away down the track but the brown headed toward me. I froze, it was all I could do. Thankfully he shot past me without stopping for a bite at my ankle, but needless o say my heart was pumping big time. The story doesn't end there as after few more steps down the track I encountered another Black. I can only assume that this was their afternoon sunning spot and I had walked right into a major snake pit. The rest of the way down I walked very slowly, made plenty of noise and bowled a big rock in front of me just in case. Very scary indeed. Hounddog Quote Link to comment
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