On a more serious note: National Paranoia

1.6k · November 23, 2002

I recently hide a cache near a hydro-electric plant. Well, by "near" I mean over a half a mile. This area is a public recreation area, but the thing is the dam itself has an observation deck, a visiter center, and a fishing pier, neither of which you can no longer get to because of "security." Police patrol the area and one stopped by while I was taking readings. No problems, but we talked. He thought there was a little too much paranoia. Things we used to take for granted, now we are prohibited--all in the name of "security."

My question is how you feel about our security as a nation.

3k · November 23, 2002

Tighten it down. I guess it all comes down to is what price are you willing to pay for security and freedom.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Not so sure, Somewhat new Owner Of a Garmin GPS V Received on 10-03-02

November 23, 2002

Hey!

If you all want to be 100% safe from not only terrorists, but also crime and other bad things that might befall you, the answer is very simple...

Just give up all your personal freedoms and all your rights as an individual to the Government...

Me, I’d rather take my chances, I may die early, but at least I lived as a free man.

Look, it’s a war. No matter what anybody says, if you want to take on Terrorism and other elements that would like to see our way of life vanish forever, your going to get a bloody nose, and your hair is going to get mussed up. Who cares, I used to work bar security for a couple of years, I never looked for trouble, but when it happened, I was never afraid of a little slap and tickle to make sure that the problem was resolved as quickly as possible. As soon as the western world realizes that they are going to get hurt but the long-term rewards far exceed the short-term pain, the war against the terrorism will be on its way to being won.

DirtRunner.

Your not first...But you could be next.

November 23, 2002

I think it was Ben Franklin that said that those willing to give up their rights for security,have neither and I agree

November 23, 2002

Jacksons - We agree totally!

You can give up everything and still not be "safe and secure". You take a chance if you breathe the air around you. I'm not willing to give up my rights for security - as there really is no 100% security possible! If we live - we take a chance!

November 23, 2002

Millie the Wonder Dog and I got a ticket for being off leash after dark in the local park this week. Hat's off to our County Park Rangers for the fine job they are doing protecting the citizeny of Minnesota from terrorists lurking in the woods with their dogs.

I feel so much safer knowing they are protecting us.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

November 24, 2002

It sure is nice to that they are out there"TO protect and serve"

November 24, 2002

quote:
Original posted by Jacksons
I think it was Ben Franklin that said that those willing to give up their rights for security,have neither and I agree

Actually he said "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety." Benjamin Franklin

But most people quote Thomas Jefferson when discussing this. He said, "A society that will trade a little order for a little freedom will lose both, and deserve neither."

Sorry Jacksons it was just to easy.

www.ManuelCasillas.com

November 24, 2002

quote:
Millie the Wonder Dog and I got a ticket for being off leash after dark in the local park this week.

It's unfortunate that you ran into an unreasonable ranger. Most geocachers wouldn't deliberately violate the leash law in parks so I'm sure it was something like Millie slipping the collar or the leash breaking that you simply neglected to include in the post.

I'm glad to see a presence in trying to control people who deliberately let their dogs off a leash. People who won't retain control over their animals in a public place shouldn't take them there.

You may want to check the leash, collar or whatever it was that caused to problem to ensure it doesn't happen again.

4.5k · November 24, 2002

I will catch alot of slack from this but in our present situation i think we should focus our security efforts on those that need to be watched. Theres going to be exceptions but, for the most part we know who are more likely to be terrorists. I know im getting a bit off topic here but, whats up with so many of the convenience stores, hotels, and little costume jewelry stores in the mall? Seriously, i would really like to know why this is so prevalent and if some of the money made from these establishments is really being sent home to family or is there the possibly that some of it helps to finance other efforts. Do they in fact get special incentives from our government to own/manage these places? Ive heard all kinds of stories but does anyone really know why this is???

Just seems that sometimes we Americans are shooting ourslves in the foot here trying to be politically correct.. Im not a prejudiced person, but if you look at the facts that we do know, then maybe you would want to ask more questions too! Its a shame that i even think this way but i really dont think im alone now, seeing as what we have gone through recently.

[This message was edited by Mudfrog on November 24, 2002 at 08:10 PM.]

1.2k · November 24, 2002

I have to agree with Mudfrog, I think our limited resources and efforts should be first directed in the direction that we KNOW the attacks are coming from. We are so paranoid about being politically correct that we refuse to acknowledge that certain people of certain countries are trying to take our heads off at the neck. We are at WAR, and during WAR our freedoms and privilages as American citizens DOES get restricted in many ways. Get into a WAR mindset and realize that it is OUR jobs to ensure that the WAR is prosecuted in the most lethal way possible in order to get it over with as quickly as possible and then ease the restrictions that are required to prosecute the WAR! The restrictions during WWII were FAR worse than anything we have seen to date since and they were successfully lifted and eased after the WAR was WON.

Win first, whine later I always say.....

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

November 24, 2002

Heck no her leash did not slip off. I didn't put it on. That is my whole point. People are worrying more about dogs than criminals and making responsible dog owners the criminal.

My dog is better trained and listens to my commands (verbal and hand signals) quicker than most people's children. A leash does not make someone a more responsible owner than a free dog.

And yes, I clean up after her in the woods too. It is that attitude that is what is wrong with this country today. Small personal freedoms have been taken away and now the big ones are next.

I will gladly pay the $ 10 fine if it means my dog can run free in the woods.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

November 24, 2002

Heck no her leash did not slip off. I didn't put it on. That is my whole point. People are worrying more about dogs than criminals and making responsible dog owners the criminal.

My dog is better trained and listens to my commands (verbal and hand signals) quicker than most people's children. A leash does not make someone a more responsible owner than a free dog.

And yes, I clean up after her in the woods too. Furthermore, we were the only people in park. The trails were empty. The ranger got us as we were loading into our SUV (had to throw that in too... I bet you are one of those SUV haters too).

It is that attitude that is what is wrong with this country today. Small personal freedoms have been taken away and now the big ones are next.

I will gladly pay the $ 10 fine if it means my dog can run free in the woods.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

November 24, 2002

quote:
It is that attitude that is what is wrong with this country today

Nope, it's the attitude you express that is the problem with America today.

Cities used to have a sense of community. Now, people have an entitlement mentality. They say "I'm going to do whatever I want to because I'm right and everyone else is wrong." Laws are generally enacted for a good reason and leash laws are put into place to ensure owners can control their dogs. If they let one person's animal run around leashless then the people who don't have trained dogs can do the same.

We've all run into someone that annoyed us, doing something legal or illegal, and said "I'm going to keep doing what I want to." Maybe it was a neighbor who told you where to go when you asked them to turn the music down at 2am. Next time someone says that to you, I hope you remember that you displayed the same anti-social sentiment here.

No, my attitude isn't what's wrong with this country, yours is.

November 24, 2002

I don't think park rangers are chartered for homeland security. I think they are, on the other hand, supposed to monitor the use of the lands they are assigned to and enforce the rules thereof.

No offense, but I've heard many people claim their dog is perfectly trained and don't need to be on a leash, and every time they've been deluding themselves.

What you've stated here is a classic either-or fallacy (interestingly, you follow it up with the red herring fallacy by dragging in the SUV issue - not related to the discussion and Team Dragon certainly didn't mentions it). A park ranger ticketing you for not having your dog on a leash is his or her job. There is no reason to think that if the ranger had let you go that we would be safe from terrorism, as your argument implies.

And it is in no way whatsoever infringing on your personal freedoms to have to have your dog on a leash. Abusive copyright law is an infringement on personal freedoms. Biometrics are infringements on personal freedoms. The DMCA, the Homeland Security Bill, the Patriot Act, UCITA and any thought that John Ashcroft has ever had are infringements on personal freedoms. I think you belittle a serious issue by comparing those things to a leash law.

-----

Memory is a prism through which yesterday's light is passed.

November 24, 2002

This may seem like an absurd analogy, but just hang with me for a moment. Now, every once in a while, coffee-growing countries have a bad season, be it due to not enough rain, too much rain, locusts, Milli Vanilli, whatever. When that happens, you immediately see a price hike in the supermarkets. What you never seem to see is a price reduction because of perfect coffee-growing conditions.

This same kind of one-way "ratchet effect" seems to apply to our freedoms. Sure, we could track people more effectively with a national ID. Having video cameras monitor every public area would make it easier to track suspicious people. Giving public servants such as garbage men the authority to observe and report unusual activity (TIPS) might bring to light otherwise unnoticed conspiricies. Is that additional piece of mind worth the cost of allowing the government to know everything that you do?

To get it back to Geocaching, though, I just hope that paranoia doesn't cause an innocent and fun activity to become victim to excessive caution, even if well-intended.

------------------------------

"You are your own worst food."

2.5k · November 24, 2002

One time I was doing work at a worksite next to a junkyard and found myself surrounded by 3 large dogs who tried to take me down. They were only doing their job, unfortunately for me, they didn't seem to have a sense where their property ended and the next began.

At first I thought they were just being playful and when they jumped up at me, I'd playfully push them back down. I've owned dogs before, so I was never afraid of them.

This behavior continued for a while until I realized that one was getting right behind me, and the others were trying to push me over the one behind me, essentially trying to knock me down.

Once I realized what was happening, a bit of fear rushed through me and the dogs sensed it at once, and one of the nipped me, drawing blood.

I called out to the owner of the junkyard who called his dogs off. I returned later with the police to make sure they were vaccinated, but I don't want to stray from my point.

My point is that now when I see a big dog running towards me, I get this sudden feeling of panic for a few seconds. It's a little hard to remain calm, but somehow I manage and am able to send the dog away. My feeling is that if dogs are not allowed to run off leash and you are letting them, I can't feel very sympathetic about the ticket you got. I know people who fear dogs a lot worse than I do.

I know people get attached to their pets, I used to be that way too. People really love their pets and try to show them off, and some even compare them to children, as you did. That's all fine and good but, remember that when someone says they are a dog lover, that doesn't necessarily mean they love your dog.

November 26, 2002

I can agree with both sides on this one. While I understand the necessities of leash laws (most dogs aren't sufficiently trained to allow them to run unrestrained) and agree with them. The owner stated that he had no problem paying the fine for violating them. As long as you're willing to pay the consequences for whatever the violation then so be it. That's a choice each has to make for him/herself.

As far as the SUV goes, there's nothing wrong with an SUV or anyother vehicle. I have a problem with anybody that has difficulty understanding "Slower Traffic Keep Right".

What it boils down to is live and let live. We all have choices to make for ourselves, each of these has an accompanying set of consequences, which are also chosen by default. As long as you're willing to pay if you play, whatever the choice is, for whatever situation, then all should be ok.

November 26, 2002

It is not reasonable to say "I will gladly pay the $ 10 fine if it means my dog can run free in the woods." The law says not to do it - and the fine for doing it is a punishment. If they wanted to allow dogs to run free in the park, they would offer a 'no-leash-needed license' and sell that for $10.

We shouldn't knowingly breaking the otherwise ethical laws of the community, no matter how 'petty' or 'annoying' or 'just not nice' we view the law to be. That's not reasonable at all.

And to head this possible view off at the pass - we aren't talking about inherently unethical racist or sexist law in some backward community. Those laws SHOULD be fought - even at personal risk, as courageous leaders have shown us. This is a leash law we are talking about here.

A given dog may be brilliant. And my nephew is the brightest kid in the world, and the most polite and quiet and mature, and STILL he wasn't allowed to visit his sick grampa in the hospital, because the hospital says that kids under 8 should not be allowed in patients rooms - because LOTS of those kids make noise, and the nurses and doctors don't want to worry about the issue by individually evaluating the attitude of each child.

The community has decided that dogs unleashed in this particular park are a public nuisence that should generally be controlled - without allowing for individual variation in the dog's ability. Just like a 'no noise' ordinance in a community applies to EVERYONE'S production of noise after a certain time, even if the person making the noise is a famous concert violinist or a famous rock star who people normally pay large sums of money to hear play. The talent of the player of music, just like the amount of training of your dog, is irrelevent.

The reasonable answer to give is "We'll use parks that allow my dog off leash, and vote for local representatives who favor removing leash laws, and I will actively protest the laws, and work to get them changed."

[This message was edited by TeamJiffy on November 26, 2002 at 07:55 AM.]

November 26, 2002

Since I use ammo boxes to store my cache contents, I am very aware of where I am hiding it. I also try to spray paint GEOCACHE on them. I thought I would hide a cache near a school that has a nice park, but I vetoed it since I could already see that making the front page. I will go with an Altoids box on that one!

Will cache for food.

November 26, 2002

SJ I do not want to hear you belly achen' when you are at a park and another dog (off leash) attacks and kills your dog or attacks you.

Please take everything I post with an MDOT trucks load of salt!

November 26, 2002

It's fascinating to me that, when we talk about those most likely to commit terrorist acts, the subject always comes up of "those people running convenience stores, taxi cabs" etc.

We've had terrorists operating more or less openly in this country for decades and I don't see anyone targeting them. They bomb and fire bullets into women's health clinics, they take down federal buildings murdering innocent children and send anthrax in the mail.

But, when we're ready to fight the "terrorists," they never seem to get included in the roundup. Now I wonder, why is that? I guess they just don't fit the politically correct profile.

November 26, 2002

Seems that this sort of thing becomes a hot button topic immediately after an attack - WTC93, PanAm over Lockerbie, and then it fades into the background as people get complacent. I feel that the bottom line is, if someone REALLY WANTS to fly a plane into a building, nothing will stop them. The trick is stopping them wanting to. Until we work out that this can only be done with hearts and minds, not bombs and bullets, none of our caches will be safe.

November 26, 2002

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

- Samuel Adams

When did we turn into consumers, customers and resources? When did we stop being citizens? Why did only 30% of the population in my county vote? Why aren't people angered into action???

1.5k · November 26, 2002

Like some other people have said and suggested... there are enough american crazies to keep us watching our backs most of the time. Adding a few more from other countries isn't gonna make it that much worse.

ie: I'm not worried about being blown up by an Arab nearly as much as I'm worried about the white trash in this apartment complex busting into my place and taking all my stuff.

The NEW Toe Pages

( I'm still thinking back a few days to the OSU campus riots... a prime example of american moron behavior. Middle class white guys can be just as scary as 'crazy' isreali suicide bombers sometimes. )

November 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Johnson:
My dog is better trained and listens to my commands (verbal and hand signals) quicker than most people's children. A leash does not make someone a more responsible owner than a free dog.

But how is someone that comes across you and your dog supposed to know that your dog is the exception that is well trained?

I have come across many unleashed dogs when caching in our local parks. I have had them approach me and start growling when their owner was a good twenty yards away. The owner will usually yell something like "Don't worry, he won't hurt you." I have never been attacked, but I have felt that it was imminent at times had the owner not come over and physically restrained their dogs. I have now taken to carrying pepper spray just for this reason.

So keep in mind, while you may have the best trained dog ever, many dogs are not well trained and the people you come across can't readily tell the difference.

"We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg."

1.6k · November 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by HardCache:

But, when we're ready to fight the "terrorists," they never seem to get included in the roundup. Now I wonder, why is that? I guess they just don't fit the politically correct profile.

Excellent points. Before 9/11, domestic terrorists were played down. Why? It could be a "not my neighbor" mentality--they're just as American as I am. But school shooting are more likely to happen than hijackings. When was the previous hijacking in the U.S.? The best answer I could find was here:Fatal US Hijackings.

You're many, many more times to die in an automobile accident than a terrorist plot.

Anyway, the tragedy perpetrated by Timothy MeVeigh did not have near the sweeping life altering changes the Bush administration is doing to his own people! All in the name of fighting terrorists.

What the Bush administration is doing to no different than what Bin Laden and his ilk have done. They've "created" an enemy to garner power for their own egos. Why would Bush do this? Haven't heard much about his fiscal dealings much have you? Makes you wonder.

I'm sorry and embarrassed to say I voted for Bush. I can easily see that was a mistake. Now, it looks like the American people are going to pay.

Subtle changes along the way and the next thing we know public land will be for some other public than us. We can already see it happening.

CR

4.5k · November 26, 2002

WOW, im not sure where you are coming from Sissy. I guess we should roll over and let everyone in the world take a stab at us! Im not gonna get into politics but i know Bush and our military is doing what they can to help keep our land free and safe. There may be some wrong decisions made and we are going to pay a hefty price, but look what is at stake here. Its an enormous challenge, and there will be setbacks, but we'd be stupid to sit back and just think that this will go away. There are going to be some decisions that we wont agree with, its inevitable and its life!

We've had our share of terrorists acts but most of these are not in the same league. School shootings, abortion clinic bombings, and fired employees taking it out on their coworkers are terrible in their own right, but they arent the same thing. We now have a strong legitimate threat against you, me and everyone who considers him or herself a True American. This is not just a handful of angry AlQueda, this is millions of people with strong beliefs that Americans are scum and should die! Its fine and dandy to have these beliefs, its not fine and dandy to act upon them!

1.2k · November 27, 2002

Well, it was ineveitable, it's all George Bush's fault.

I knew it in the back of my mind I guess, but I was repressing it till now. Thanks to the previoius post pointing it out to me I now see the error of my ways.

We didn't take serious messures to restrict all American's liberties when "domestic" terrorists attacked us, therefore it only makes sense that when "foreign" terrorists attack us, we should react the same way! (smacking forehead) What was I thinking??? Tim McVeigh and his ilk were just trying to show their contempt for the government at that time (er, except it wasn't George Bush, oops), while the government at that time was caving in to every environmentalist wacko and restricting more and more of our access to public lands (er, except that it wasn't George Bush, oops) and attacking "domestic" terrorists in Waco, Texas (er, except that wasn't George Bush either, oops).

Man, the more I think about it the more it is difficult to blame George Bush, even though I KNOW it must be his fault! Let's see, He has reacted to an attack on our nation by "foreign" terrorists by trying to equip the military with the equipment, training and information they need to battle the enemy. He has reacted to threats from those that attacked us to attack us again, and again, and again by trying to put the country on a war footing while maintaining a vibrant economy, while at the same time fighting an obstructionist Senate and unable to convince the left side of the American public that they are in danger and certain measures must be taken in order to protect them.

Maybe I spoke too quickly, maybe "I'm" right when I say it is NOT all George Bush's fault. Maybe, just maybe, he's actually doing the best that can be done under the circumstances and maybe, just maybe, we ought to be behind him all the way and supporting his efforts.

But, of course, I could be all wet.....

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

November 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Excellent points. Before 9/11, domestic terrorists were played down. Why? It could be a "not my neighbor" mentality--they're just as American as I am. But school shooting are more likely to happen than hijackings. When was the previous hijacking in the U.S.? The best answer I could find was here:http://www.airsafe.com/events/hijack.htm.

I seem to remember a bunch of fuss about militant militias, abortion clinic bombings and murders, etc. before 9/11/2001. Given the press coverage of all those groups (plus the coverage of Ruby Ridge and Waco), "played down" would not be my phrase of choice.

quote:
You're many, many more times to die in an automobile accident than a terrorist plot.

Anyway, the tragedy perpetrated by Timothy MeVeigh did not have near the sweeping life altering changes the Bush administration is doing to his _own people!_ All in the name of fighting terrorists.

Timothy McVeigh didn't have thousands and thousands of followers (some of whom are in the governments of other countries). McVeigh, in all likelihood, was a lone nutcase. The world wasn't treated to more murders, shootings, bombings, hi-jackings, etc. in his name. I truly wish I could say that about Bin Laden

quote:
What the Bush administration is doing to no different than what Bin Laden and his ilk have done. They've "created" an enemy to garner power for their own egos. Why would Bush do this? Haven't heard much about his fiscal dealings much have you? Makes you wonder.

So Bush got all those Democrats to back this scheme because they didn't want his fiscal dealings to be known? Wow--I wish I had that kind of power (I bet Bush does, too. )

There are people out there who don't like the West enough to kill. Bush and "his ilk" didn't create them--they merely surfaced at this time in history.

quote:
I'm sorry and embarrassed to say I voted for Bush. I can easily see that was a mistake.

Since you consider Bush to be a murderer on par with Bin Laden, a tyrant, an oppressor, and a shredder of the Constitution, Bush probably is embarassed by your vote. It's a real shame that you didn't detect these huge character flaws before you voted.

quote:
Now, it looks like the American people are going to pay.

Some of them already did--their names were read last Sept. 11th. What everyone wants is that no one else pays that same price.

Find yourself an Israeli and get yourself laughed at for your (and your country's) naivete. You can have all the freedom you want--with it goes an increase in the chance that your body parts will be scattered all over the countryside. Judging from the consensus and the votes, most of your fellow citizens prefer to lessen the chances.

quote:
Subtle changes along the way and the next thing we know public land will be for some other public than us. We can already see it happening.

Yep--forbidding caching at Hoover Dam makes me unfree. <*sigh*>

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

1.6k · November 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:
Well, it was ineveitable, it's all George Bush's fault.

Not saying what has happened is Bush's fault. What I'm saying is, what is happening is Bush's fault. And more to the point, what is happening to the American people.

I really could care less if our troops get more combat time in the desert. I'm know 99% of them are rearing to go. I know a little of what that feeling is like, as I'm sure you do. But only if there is a clear objective--like removing Saddam or going after terrorist camps and such. What I do care about is young men thrown into harm's way for nothing but to cover some politian's butt.

quote:
We didn't take serious messures to restrict all American's liberties when "domestic" terrorists attacked us, therefore it only makes sense that when "foreign" terrorists attack us, we should react the same way!

Not to put words in your mouth, but what you're saying because there are criminals/terrorists we should restrict everyone's liberties? ...and you're a military man and police officer? dadgum, it just dawned on me. "Police" Lock everyone down and then there can be no crime. Never heard an officer say that before.

quote:
...again by trying to put the country on a war footing while maintaining a vibrant economy...

Are we talking about the companies that are salivating at the new Homeland Defense contracts that are geared towards keeping track of every man, woman, and child in the US? Or are we talking about the traditional war machine? The former is what is scaring the beejeezus out of me, as it should anyone who loves the the freedoms we enjoy.

I heard on the radio just the other day some guy talking about the Homeland Defense bill. He said most people are for it, but have absolutely no concept of the scope. Spending on domestic defense is expected to go from 5 billion to 38 billion and that's why these companies were so eager for it to go through.

No, I don't blame Bush for the pickle we're in. What I blame him for is his solution for getting us out. I also question his reasoning for going after Hussien.

quote:
...maybe, just maybe, we ought to be behind him all the way and supporting his efforts.

Oh, like we should just have blindly supported Johnson in Vietnam? That micromanager was part of the problem in being effective over there. Remember, many military didn't support Johnson in Vietnam. They did their job, but didn't like it. General Schwarzkopf's whole game plan in Desert Storm was to not be like Johnson!

No, Presidents aren't perfect. I'd wholeheartedly back him if he were only going after the terrorists, not grabbing power from his own people.

Let's put it this way. You part of the problem? You hate Americans? No? Then why restrict your freedoms? How in the world would that ever make sense?

(Don't even get me started the fiascos under Clinton's watch.)

CR

1.6k · November 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
Since you consider Bush to be a murderer...

Since you'd argue with me about the sky being blue on a clear day, not to mention the quote above--where you got that, I have no idea--this is more response than what you deserve.

CR

November 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
Since you consider Bush to be a murderer...

Since you'd argue with me about the sky being blue on a clear day, not to mention the quote above--where you got that, I have no idea--this is more response than what you deserve.

My apologies--I thought you had equated Bush and his administration with Bin Laden and his ilk. Since those beings are murderers, tyrants, etc., I thought you considered the members of the current administrator to be the same.

If that is not what you meant, then I must have misread your words. Again, my apologies.

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

1.6k · November 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
I thought you had equated Bush and his administration with Bin Laden and his ilk

quote:
What I actually said:
What the Bush administration is doing to no different than what Bin Laden and his ilk have done. They've "created" an enemy to garner power for their own egos.

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
...then I must have misread your words. Again, my apologies.

Apologies might had been accepted if it were sincere, but it was just another snide dig.

Most people have pretty good reading comprehension unless you steer them somewhere the text didn't go. It is obvious this is what you are trying to do. Why is that?

CR

November 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

Apologies might had been accepted if it were sincere, but it was just another snide dig.

Most people have pretty good reading comprehension unless you steer them somewhere the text didn't go. It is obvious this is what you are trying to do. Why is that?

You have mistaken formality and good grammar for snideness. Perhaps the paranoia that you fear has gotten to you.

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

November 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
I recently hide a cache near a hydro-electric plant. Well, by "near" I mean over a half a mile. This area is a public recreation area, but the thing is the dam itself has an observation deck, a visiter center, and a fishing pier, neither of which you can no longer get to because of "security." Police patrol the area and one stopped by while I was taking readings. No problems, but we talked. He thought there was a little too much paranoia. Things we used to take for granted, now we are prohibited--all in the name of "security."

My question is how you feel about our security as a nation.

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/72057_2000.gif

Last night, I was watching a TV movie with the volume up loud, and I heard some explosions off in the distance. I thought it might be lightning, but when I looked out, there was not a cloud in the evening sky. The wife came in and said, "What's that?" I went out and looked West toward downtown. The sky was dark and there were flashes of light in the sky. I could hear low rumbling noises with sharper booms mixed in. My mind raced... could this be some sort of attack? Finally it dawned on me. The Colts had won and this was a fire-works celebration! I don't follow sports, so I was caught off guard by the explosions over my home town!

First, I was pi%%ed that some idiot would think it was OK to set off explosives in the air over my city. Then I gathered myself a bit and realized that we are in danger of losing the freedom to be what we are.

These are strange times, Let's try to keep our heads, OK?

Bluespreacher

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

1.6k · November 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
You have mistaken formality and good grammar for snideness. Perhaps the paranoia that you fear has gotten to you.

Wendy, give it a rest. You've just insulted everyone who has read this thread to this point.

Just give it a rest will you?

CR

1.6k · November 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Bluespreacher:
Then I gathered myself a bit and realized that we are in danger of losing the freedom to be what we are.

Well said.

CR

On a more serious note: National Paranoia

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