Jump to content

Locationless Cache's Must Die


Duc996
Followers 0

Recommended Posts

Gimme a break. All the whining over locationless caches is getting on my nerves. Locationless caches involve a quest. Finding a bus ain't exciting but it's a 1/1. Finding a missle silo would be a 5/5. From 1/1 to 5/5 and in between is found the fun. Stick to traditional if that's your game. Some of those traditional caches aren't all that exciting for me, but for my kids they were a kick, and for others? Sure they were. That's the point. Never lose track that this is about fun. Some people like hunting benchmarks. That's not exactly fun to me, but what the heck. I may try it out later. It's a different challenge.

Link to comment

A simple solution I've suggested on other threads would simply be to move locationless caches to another database (like the benchmarks). Then, those who like them can easily hunt them, and those that hate them can easily ignore them.

 

I do think they should have separate stats. I've hunted them because they can be fun, not to boost my numbers. If the numbers were separated, I'd actually probably hunt more of them than I do now. They should be a separate game, with separate stats, like benchmarking.

 

25021_1200.gif

Link to comment

What about those types of caches that you dont need a gps to find. You know those ones, like those national monuments. Those you just simply need to read the cache discription. Boy you could really rack up those cach find numbers. With any luck you could probably find 12 or so in a day. I bet some of those could be done without even leaving your desk.

 

Weezer

Link to comment

Guess I should make myself clear.

 

I support locationless caches. I have only done one so far, but I read many of them and some are quite interesting. I do think some are kind of goofy, but then again I am sure someone likes the idea.

Previous post was a little sarcastic. icon_razz.gif

 

Weezer

Link to comment

Guess I should make myself clear.

 

I support locationless caches. I have only done one so far, but I read many of them and some are quite interesting. I do think some are kind of goofy, but then again I am sure someone likes the idea.

Previous post was a little sarcastic. icon_razz.gif

 

Weezer

Link to comment

Little did I know that your number of finds was so important to your ego! icon_razz.gif

 

I got into the sport for my own entertainment, my enjoyment... not to impress others. I'll do whatever caches fit my lifestyle, schedule or location... like many other people do!

 

This shouldn't even be an issue, IMHO. This is a community of people that share a passion for a great activity... let's not divide ourselves!

Link to comment

Little did I know that your number of finds was so important to your ego! icon_razz.gif

 

I got into the sport for my own entertainment, my enjoyment... not to impress others. I'll do whatever caches fit my lifestyle, schedule or location... like many other people do!

 

This shouldn't even be an issue, IMHO. This is a community of people that share a passion for a great activity... let's not divide ourselves!

Link to comment

quote:

I guess I just don't like people changing "rules" on the fly.


 

Hehe, you better move out of America because that is the American way. Car theft was not against the law at one time but I am glad they changed that rule somewhere along the way, once cars were invented that is. They added video instant reply appeals to football once technology got good enough to support it. Geocaching is new, and rules will be developed as needed.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

I am with Duc for the most part. The more I play the more I am a fan of caches that require a physical hunt, and the more remote the better.

 

I also live as much as possible by letting people do their own thing, but with so many caches out there, it can take a while to find a cache I want to go for. There so much stuff to sift through that I am not really interested in.

 

That’s why the new search engine will help, it will allow me find caches that I would enjoy hunting without having to click on a bunch of description for caches I would not get anything out of anyway.

 

Dan

Link to comment

See I still don't get it. Why does something have to die here? I mean if you dont like it don't do it. I can't imagaine anyone wanting others to "do without" just because they don't want to have to hear or think about locationless.

 

No worries, we'll find a place and then you guys can stop telling us to get out of America.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Duc996:

Give me a break. Finding cities that begin with letter "X", find a casino, find an airport.....?? Okay it was fun at first but its way out of hand now.


 

No, give ME a break!

 

I've said it before, I'll say it until you idiots knock off your belly-aching...

 

There are something in the range of TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND Geocaches throughout the world. There are approx. 115 locationless caches in the world. That is more or less a ratio of 217 REAL caches for every ONE locationless cache that is active.

 

Locationless caches aren't even on the RADAR. What needs to die is the Rabid Hamster attitude.

 

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda, Jedi Master from Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

Link to comment

I do not want them to go away, I just wish people would be creative and think about them more like the first few that were done -- and they were well done. As I have said, I have logged a few of the first ones.

 

As as far as changing the rules as you go you have to remember this...

At the start you had to post the coordinates for a location, either a physical cache site or a virtual cache because no cache box was allowed for legal reasons. The rules changed at one point to allow a cache to be approved that had no coordinates. It appears that Geocaching has been attempting to adapt to what cachers want. Locationless caches are linked at the top EVERY result page every time you do a search, yet less than 1 percent of cachers log them. It is not as if they are hard to find, but if they were so popular there would be 2000 logs on every cache since there are over 12,000 Geocachers (or more).

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

I said "on the fly". Most of your analogies are rule changes the were brought on by some sort of vote(which is the American way). I do agree that the rules will be changed to adapt to the mass, but they seem to change them, seemingly, on a case by case basis.

 

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

quote:

I guess I just don't like people changing "rules" on the fly.


 

Hehe, you better move out of America because that is the American way. Car theft was not against the law at one time but I am glad they changed that rule somewhere along the way, once cars were invented that is. They added video instant reply appeals to football once technology got good enough to support it. Geocaching is new, and rules will be developed as needed.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!


 

geosigbuscard.jpg

Link to comment

I realize we've only been around a short time, but I've looked at several locationless caches. Some of them look really interesting.

 

I see several good points to locationless caches.

 

A.) It gives a chance to learn something and perhaps see something new.

 

B.) Still gives us a chance to clean up the area.

 

C.) It provides some fun and a "thrill of the hunt" for some that perhaps can't go into the woods or hike up a mountain.

 

If you don't like them, don't do them.

 

I didn't even realize until the last 24 hours that your found/placed amounted to anything, really. For us it's all about something fun to do with our kids and with each other. It definately breaks the monotany of "Going to the park". We have something interesting to do. It's fun, the kids are all over it, we get outside and get fresh air and we see new places.

 

Doing a little research to find a locationless cache sure seems like a chance at a learning experience to me.

 

Holly Selden

Triple M Cachers

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

...

And Mtn-man, are all your caches creative or does that only apply to locationless?


Well I haven't been to all Mtn-man's caches so I can't answer that question, but the 6 I have been to are creative.
Link to comment

Well Lazyboy and Mitey Mite, all you have to do is click on my name above the picture of my dog and you can judge for yourself (which I invite you to do). It is very easy to look and see. Since you have decided to get personal, I guess I will attempt to defend myself (I guess I am part of the 90 percent of Geocaching whiners, as you define it).

 

I have 19 caches. My caches range from a 1/1 cache to a 4.5/5 cache (which ironically can be done without leaving your car). I have timed three caches to specific dates; May 3, which is the Anniversary of the First Geocache placement and done in honor of Geocaching.com and June 7 for the day we formed our GGA group. I am a volunteer on our GGA Steering Committee that helps organize meetings and plan events, and the GGA also works with the State Parks here in GA as we try to get them to allow Geocaching in the Parks again (which it looks like we may have finally done).

 

I have 6 virtual caches and respond quickly to emailed answers. I also started two travelling caches out before the Travel Bug was invented. If you see the terms "HIDDEN" and "IN TRANSIT" on another traveller, that was coined first by me to describe the current status of the two Mars ROVER Travelling Caches. Some cachers emailed me and asked if they could use my format and I said why not. I almost always try to come up with some catchy name for my caches as a play on words.

 

I think the logs on the cache is where you have to go to see if people enjoy my caches and to see if they think they are creative. I will not attempt to rate my own work, but will ask you to read what is posted and let the judgements of other Geocachers speak for themselves. After all, it is their opinion that matters the most, not mine.

 

And last but not least... thanks to AllenLacy for your kind words. He and all the Lacy's also place very well done and well thought out caches.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

The evolution of geocaching, more or less..

 

1. GPS Sats - SA turned off

2. Cache hunts begin on Sat Nav newsgroup

3. Geocaching.com website opens

4. Ammoboxes & Tupperware become standard items

5. Hitchhikers appear in caches

6. Micro-caches used, especially in urban areas

7. Multi-caches appear

8. Virtual caches appear

9. Letterbox-Hybrid caches appear

9. GC.com replaces player-owned Hitchhikers with GC.com-owned Travel Bugs

10. Locationless caches appear

11. What will come next?

 

The point is that it's healthy for geocaching to grow and change. It's pointless to try to "stop" it's growth or to stop the creativity and ingenuity of geocaches to invent new concepts for the game. It's hard to believe that some people are already falling into the "NO CHANGE!" mindset. Have we grown to the point of having conservatives and progressives? Will we soon have political parties within this sport?

 

Give up this silly argument over what IS or IS NOT geocaching, and keep on inventing new concepts for the game. The ideas that don't work will fall away, or never get off the ground. The simple fact that so many people enjoy virtual and locationless caches is proof that they work just fine. You decide for yourself which caches to play. Please don't try to tell me which caches I can play.

 

Is the argument really just about who scores more "finds", with some players being so competitive that they can't enjoy a silly sport like geocaching without having their Type-A personalities get in the way?

 

If that's it, then ask GC.com to establish a separate "Find" category for locationless caches, to give more definition to the scores. Or not. Is it really so important how many "real" vs. locationless caches you've found? I play all kinds of caches. If someone cares to know exactly what I found, they can check the list on my profile page. Does anyone really bother doing that? I could care less what other players find, and am just happy to know they're enjoying the sport. If some of them have 400, 600 or 1,000 finds after their name, so be it. Are they lieing? Were they all locationless caches? Does anyone really care?

 

We need to encourage the sport to grow and evolve. Setting to many limits and making lots of rules will eventually backfire, and hurt us all. Keep your mind open, and go with the flow. Don't become the Geocaching Gestapo. Trying for total control didn't work then, and it won't work now.

 

Anton, N2RUD

 

Anton - N2RUD

Syracuse, NY

Link to comment

Tracy and I have found some. The quality of locationless is as varied as any other cache type. How many people swore to not do virtuals when they first appeared? Some locationless caches are very well done (Benchmark) and some are as lame as some of the virtuals AND physical caches out there.

 

If you're thinking, "What's the point of Locationless caches," think about how you respond when someone asks "what's the sport in finding something if you KNOW its coordinates?"

 

If you don't like them, don't do them. Rules are in place, so stop crabbing and move on.

 

Richard

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

Again the main point to remember is the whiners have won anyway. The locationless caches are are good as dead on this site. So we'll find a place to host them for us.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On


 

At this new locationless cache site, will there be a standard or can anything be a locationless cache? What if I posted "Find a telephone poll" cache on the new site? Would that be approved?

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

Link to comment

Well mrn-man I'm glad you're impressed with your caches. I'm sure I'd love them too. My point being that not all caches are creative yet we don't have any moaning over them do we? We are moaning over something that 1/3 of the cachers here enjoy yet aren't allowed to participate in because of the whiners. Yet it isn't 90% whiners obviously so I wouldn't put yourself in such a large group. It's a very small vocal minority that has affected the direction of this website.

 

One thing to remember though, is that geocaching is a business and perhaps someone needs to concern themselves with the 1/3 of the users here that voted in favor of locationless caches. Instead of brushing them off. I've spent my money to be a member and have spent much much more money at Groundspeak. I'd love to be treated as a customer instead of having to search around for a site that will help us locationless fans.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

Link to comment

mtn-man-

 

I've hunted very few caches in GA. Unfortunately, yours were not among them. From the quality of your posts, I'm sure that your caches are not lame.

 

In do agree with the underlying point that there are lame caches in every catagory.

 

georgeandmary-

 

I think your concern regarding 'telephone pole' caches is unfounded. Jeremy has established rules for locationless caches that would certainly forbid this type of cache.

 

Let's just play the game...

Link to comment

I guess you did not read my post. I did not talk about being proud of any of my caches really. I asked you to read the logs. I wish you would do that.

 

As far as this 1/3rd figure that you keep throwing up... I looked at the locationless caches. Benchmarks are #1 with 351 logs, then yellow jeep at 210, then drive in movies #3 at 158. It is mostly the same cachers logging these locationless caches. If there are 12,000 active gecachers (most likely more than that), my calculations put that at 3 percent that log them, not 30 percent.

 

It is a shame that you have to call people names on the site.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

 

georgeandmary-

 

I think your concern regarding 'telephone pole' caches is unfounded. Jeremy has established rules for locationless caches that would certainly forbid this type of cache.

 

Let's just play the game...


 

This is not in reference to locationless caches on geocaching.com.

 

There is discusion of movement to another site where locationless sites would be more welcome. My comment is trying to point out that whatever site hosts locationless caches, there will be a some level of creativity that a locationless cache must reach before it is considered worth of posting and finding. www.geocaching.com has set it's standard and a few people sound unhappy about it... thus the discussion of another site.

 

My question is, how low can you go before you say that's not worth being a locationless cache. Telephone poles, hotdog vendors, Walmarts? What is the standard. www.geocaching.com has set theirs, how far do they want to lower the bar?

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

Link to comment

Mtn-Man-

 

I think the 30% number came from a poll that was taken a while back. Certainly, the point can be made that the response rate to any of the polls is so low that it is not statistically relevent.

 

How are you getting quick data on individual caches? That info might be pretty cool.

 

I agree that these forums should be used for reasoned conversation regarding topics. To that end, I have a problem with the way this thread was started. It was inflamatory to begin with and you just got caught by an emotional comment. Too bad, really, since it appears that the two of you were pretty much on the same side of the discussion.

Link to comment

I would also like to point out that the person the posted this thread hasn't responded since his first post.

 

This thread has taken an ugly turn. Name calling is uncalled for.

 

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

Link to comment

hey sbell111,

There is no quick way really to get the data. I literally went to all 116 locationless caches and looked at the total logs posted, which is given just above the logs. That is for found, not found, or just a note, but most of the locationless caches are "founds". If you search on the geocaching site, every results page will always have a link that says "also search for [locationless caches]". I don't know how you could make finding them any easier. Here is a link to the locationless cache search page.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

 

Hot dog vendor = OK

WalMart or pole = not OK

 

(Just my opinion of what might be OK on a hypothetical alternative site)


 

I bet walmarts area rarer than airports. Every small town here in the central valley california has a crop dusting airport. Only the bigger towns have walmarts.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

I'd love to be treated as a customer instead of having to search around for a site that will help us locationless fans.


 

I would just like to know why people who share your interest in locationless caches are "fans" and those who don't are "whiners."

Link to comment

Acme I know you are a new cacher. Let me explain this for you. The whiners are the ones that got the locationless killed on this site. It's amazing to me too. I mean only 116 locationless caches compared to 25,000 traditional caches yet the vocal whiners want them killed.

 

And they are as good as killed too.

 

Am I whining about it? Yes I am actually. I want to enjoy all aspects of this activity. If you or others don't, just don't but why not allow us to have our fun too?

 

What next? No more virtuals???

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

Link to comment

Let me first clarifiy my position on locationless caches. While I don't think they're something I want to go after, unless they are especially interesting to me, I don't have any problem with them being on this website. I DO think that some of them are a little ridiculous and some form of restriction needed to be made (but not quite as harsh as what has been imposed). I do own two locationless caches, and I have 'found' a couple, three I think.

 

So my question to all those who have a problem with them is this... How are they different from benchmarking? Meaning, most of your complaints seem to be that they aren't geocaching because you don't need a gps, and/or you go to the location first, then get the coordinates. Now it seems to me that benchmarking is ALMOST exactly the same thing. The coordinates list for most benchmarks are not very accurate, in fact I pulled some up today that were only listed to a tenth of a minute. Just for fun I went out and found 6 of them without even using my GPS by reading the directions included with the benchmark descriptions.

 

So, if I'm able to find benchmarks without even needing a GPS, or a map and compass for that matter, how come all you people aren't up in arms about it the way you are about locationless caches?

 

JMHO,

Gloom

 

----

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

Link to comment

Lazyboy, I really wish you would stop calling people names in the forums. The only one whining and calling people names is you. Everyone else is trying to have a discussion.

 

Gloom, benchmarks are not Geocaches, so there is really no comparison since it is separated from the main site. The ones you find do not show up on your "My Cache Page". You do not even get a "Found It" count on the benchmark part of Geocaching. That is why no one cares.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

benchmarks are not Geocaches, so there is really no comparison since it is separated from the main site. The ones you find do not show up on your "My Cache Page". You do not even get a "Found It" count on the benchmark part of Geocaching. That is why no one cares.


 

Then why do people care if the locationless caches are split out just the same as benchmarks? Seems to me most people who respond would only be happy if they went away completely. It has been brought up before that they be a seperate game, just like benchmarks, but people still didn't like that idea.

 

----

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Gloom:

 

Then why do people care if the locationless caches are split out just the same as benchmarks? Seems to me most people who respond would only be happy if they went away completely.


 

It was my understanding that the majority of people simply want to split locationless caches out from "standard" geocaches, not get rid of them completely.

 

quote:

So my question to all those who have a problem with them is this... How are they different from benchmarking?


 

As you've already mentioned, with locationless caches, the GPS becomes involved AFTER the find. With benchmarks, the coordinates come first (even if they are imprecise coordinates that are only displayed to the tenth of the minute). Using descriptions of the benchmark locations rather than the coordinates to find them is no different than using cache hints to find caches rather than a GPS (something that a number of people do).

 

Moun10Bike's Geocaching Pages

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

Lazyboy, I really wish you would stop calling people names in the forums.


 

Where is this "name calling" that is being referred to?? I just reviewed this entire thread and could find none. I did see a couple of general references to "whiners" directed at no one in particular - but I missed the posts where someone was calling someone names??? Could someone point the post out to me. Thanks.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

Link to comment

Gloom, as Moun10Bike says, it is my impression that most people think that they should be split into a benchmark type separate site. Originally I wanted to keep them in the general site, but now that I am being called names by a cacher I would just assume see them go to a separate area so the controversy would just go away.

 

Virtuals will stay from what I see since they are used as a substitute where a physical cache is illegal or unpractical.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Gloom:

So my question to all those who have a problem with them is this... How are they different from benchmarking?


Let me begin by stating that I too have found a few locationless caches (3 or 4). I have read a majority of the locationless cache pages. When the first few popped up, I thought they were a cool new twist on the game, and I played along. Now I have to place myself in the anti-locationless cache camp. Why? Because, they do not hold to what I believe to be a fundamental aspect of Geocaching. Navigating to an object/location using a GPS receiver. Locationless caches incorporate the GPS almost as an afterthought.

 

Now, how are they different than finding the benchmarks? Actually, they are more closely related to benchmarking than Geocaching! However, nobody is trying to claim that benchmarking is Geocaching, that is the biggest difference. I think that locationless caches more properly belong on a parallel site as the benchmarks are now. There are some excellent ideas in the Splitting Geocaching.com into separate games thread.

 

Do locationless caches have enough potential to warrant the development of a complementing site? I don’t know. It’s just my opinion that they don’t belong where they are now.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

Acme I know you are a new cacher. Let me explain this for you. The whiners are the ones that got the locationless killed on this site. It's amazing to me too. I mean only 116 locationless caches compared to 25,000 traditional caches yet the vocal whiners want them killed.


 

It is my opinion, but calling other cachers whiners is name calling to me. Anyone who disagrees with his opinion is a whiner, or at least that is how I read that. I do not call him a whiner, I just have a different opinion. I thought we were all entitled to our own opinions.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

but now that I am being called names by a cacher


 

To come to Lazyboys defense, I don't think he was calling YOU specifically a whiner. I think he was just stating that the people who can't see that some people DO like locationless caches even if they don't seem to be doing an excessive amount of complaining given that locationless caches are a very small portion of the available caches. He even goes so far as to call HIMSELF a whiner for complaining about the complaints. Now, I am certainly not Lazyboy and wouldn't think to speak for him, but I did meet him this weekend and he is a very generous and nice guy.

 

----

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 0
×
×
  • Create New...