Wheel of Challenges July

[+Bandweber]

So guys,

 

I fully agree with what having being said to the latest Challenge. We as Geocachers actually do have the same things to do more or less to do as during the latest two challenges. And I also fully agrre that HQ should have introduced a more interesting challenge than the one we have for July. Bad job HQ. Sorry for making that clear.

 

However, what the hell is the prbolem on fullfilling this challenge? Yes, go for ALCs and log them one day after the other. Go for a trail and log them one day after the other. It is absolutely and completely free for everyone to play the game as he or she wants to. And who the hell will make proof that in case there is any trail close by, that I am not doing and finding one cache fater each other one day after each other? I actually and really did that for another Streak challenge. It was hard, but possible.

 

Again: I absolutely dislike this challenge but I am sure to make all three souvenirs. And I also hope that we will have a more "challenging" new challenge in August.

 

Best regards from central Germany

[+TheLimeCat]

1 hour ago, Bandweber said:

However, what the hell is the prbolem on fullfilling this challenge? Yes, go for ALCs and log them one day after the other. Go for a trail and log them one day after the other. It is absolutely and completely free for everyone to play the game as he or she wants to. And who the hell will make proof that in case there is any trail close by, that I am not doing and finding one cache fater each other one day after each other? I actually and really did that for another Streak challenge. It was hard, but possible.

I think the problem for many people is not the difficulty of completing the challenge, but the tediousness of it. A person could consume a bowl of rice by eating each grain individually, but that's not a particularly rewarding feat. Eating the rice as usual and then claiming to have eaten it grain by grain would somehow be even less rewarding.

[+nachtmusik]

3 hours ago, TheLimeCat said:

I think the problem for many people is not the difficulty of completing the challenge, but the tediousness of it. A person could consume a bowl of rice by eating each grain individually, but that's not a particularly rewarding feat.

 

Great analogy! This is exactly what it feels like.

[Ranger Fox]

I'd agree there are times finding a cache would be tedious.  On Tuesday, I wanted to find something and be over with it.  The first cache I visited was a challenging one and had coordinate problems.  I gave up and went to the next one, which was the same thing: a challenge and had coordinate problems.  The third didn't have problems with its coordinates and wasn't a micro in the woods, so I found it.  To me, that was tedious.

 

It's important I go somewhere other than work and the house each day.  Thus, I go out and find something.  It gets tedious when you DNF a few.  Other than that, it's just what I do, year after year after decade.

[+Hynz]

10 hours ago, Bandweber said:

Go for a trail and log them one day after the other. It is absolutely and completely free for everyone to play the game as he or she wants to. And who the hell will make proof that in case there is any trail close by, that I am not doing and finding one cache fater each other one day after each other?

<rant>

I really wished people with such mindset would stay way from a pasttime which is based on mutual trust and move on to strict regulated and controlled sports.

</rant>

[+baer2006]

11 hours ago, Bandweber said:

However, what the hell is the prbolem on fullfilling this challenge? Yes, go for ALCs and log them one day after the other. Go for a trail and log them one day after the other.

I agree that it's not a problem to fulfill the July challenge ... if you resort to cheating like that!

 

11 hours ago, Bandweber said:

It is absolutely and completely free for everyone to play the game as he or she wants to.

No it's not. The game of geocaching has, like every game, a given framework and some basic rules (e.g. post a "find" only if you actually found a cache). You are not "completely free" to just do whatever you like (e.g. posting finds on caches, you didn't find).

In addition to those "hard" rules, there is (or should be) also a code of conduct to somehow preserve the integrity of a game, including any challenges related to that game. E.g. it's important to correctly date your logs, because that's a vital information for the CO and other cachers about the current status of the cache. And regarding any kind of challenges, I think that blatantly lying about your achievements in a game-based challenge (as in "I found a cache every day", when in reality you didn't) should be considered a no-go.

[+thebruce0]

  

On 7/18/2023 at 9:17 PM, funkymunkyzone said:

On 7/17/2023 at 9:56 AM, thebruce0 said:

Camping for 3 days this week; no caches in the vicinity; smack in the middle of the window; sad face...

 

Self imposed and obviously lack of commitment.  See this for appropriate level of commitment:

 

On 7/16/2023 at 4:48 PM, Harry Dolphin said:

Day 14.  Heavy rain storm warning.  Flash flood warning.  Tornado warning.  But we got the cache today!  P&G.

 

 

 

Well, you know, the fiance and her family will never deserve a lesser commitment...!  Therein lies my self-preserving reasoning. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by thebruce0

[+thebruce0]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:03 PM, nachtmusik said:

On 7/19/2023 at 7:09 PM, TheLimeCat said:

I think the problem for many people is not the difficulty of completing the challenge, but the tediousness of it. A person could consume a bowl of rice by eating each grain individually, but that's not a particularly rewarding feat.

 

Great analogy! This is exactly what it feels like.

 

Well then, don't do it. If you don't like rice, and don't get even more satisfaction by savouring every bite, then there's no reason to; especially if you just get a little participation ribbon at the end   The ribbon is for people who find value in the challenge and being able to complete it, even if it is primarily a self-promoted value. Ultimately, there is no benefit of completing the challenge except the little ribbon. So, if you don't enjoy savouring rice, and you find no value in the ribbon, then just forget about it all, it's not worth your hassle and time. Ya?

Edited July 22, 2023 by thebruce0

[+thebruce0]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:49 AM, baer2006 said:

No it's not. The game of geocaching has, like every game, a given framework and some basic rules (e.g. post a "find" only if you actually found a cache). You are not "completely free" to just do whatever you like (e.g. posting finds on caches, you didn't find).

Fully agreed.

 

I'll always emphasize that I prefer the phrase "everyone enjoys the activity differently" because even if everyone plays the game different, many of those people may absolutely be playing wrong.  Enjoy it within the minimal ruleset that exists, and remember other humans play too.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by thebruce0

[+barefootjeff]

On 7/22/2023 at 1:21 PM, thebruce0 said:

 

Well then, don't do it. If you don't like rice, and don't get even more satisfaction by savouring every bite, then there's no reason to; especially if you just get a little participation ribbon at the end   The ribbon is for people who find value in the challenge and being able to complete it, even if it is primarily a self-promoted value. Ultimately, there is no benefit of completing the challenge except the little ribbon. So, if you don't enjoy savouring rice, and you find no value in the ribbon, then just forget about it all, it's not worth your hassle and time. Ya?

 

For me at least, participating in the promotions isn't about "the ribbon", it's about, well, wanting to participate, to be a part of the activity and share my experiences with my caching friends. For my own personal satisfaction, I made the effort of doing the seven-day streak, even though three were full-day trips away and another two were half-day trips to northern Sydney. If there were 21 unfound caches close to home that I could get to while "going to the grocery store or walking the dog" (if I had a dog), as HQ put it in their Streaking Tips blog post, then maybe I would have tried to continue for the full 28 days, but going on half-day or full-day trips away every day for almost a month isn't really a practical proposition, no matter how much I might want to participate. Real life has a habit of getting in the way of such endeavours.

 

Going back to the rice analogy, eating one grain a day may be fine if the rice bowl is in your kitchen, but less so if it's 100km away.

[+lee737]

9 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

For me at least, participating in the promotions isn't about "the ribbon", it's about, well, wanting to participate, to be a part of the activity and share my experiences with my caching friends.

Us too. I can hardly remember the last time I flipped through the souvenirs I had earned over the years.... 

It became less than fun to try for a 28 day streak for us, despite us having a 16 day holiday to places we've never cached before, right in the middle of the challenge. Those other 12 days would be hard - work and school commitments - and don't forget this is winter here - so all this after work/school caching is in the dark! And we ran out of local stuff ages ago, especially after last month. We could have done it (and we still could from tonight) - but it becomes a chore...... everyone I've ever spoken to, who has done long streaks is glad when they finish.....

[Ranger Fox]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:45 PM, barefootjeff said:

For me at least, participating in the promotions isn't about "the ribbon", it's about, well, wanting to participate, to be a part of the activity and share my experiences with my caching friends.

For me, the fun is seeing which ones I end up getting while not altering what I do.  My activity level is such that I get them all, anyway.

 

Really, though, if I were making souvenir challenges, I'd make it so the souvenir levels would consider a person's average activity level over the past two years, excluding outliers.  This way, something deemed hard would be difficult for most people.  For example, if someone averages 25 finds a month, a hard challenge might be 33 (about 30% more).  Someone else who averages 200 a month after the extremes involving a cache run twice a year were factored out should find 260 to be a challenge--unless the souvenir falls on the month of a planned cache run.

 

The more elaborate and personal one attempts to make a challenge, the more one might find criticism from the community.

[+Goldenwattle]

I was travelling and found at least one cache everyday. I got seven souvenirs. I wasn't doing it for the souvenirs; they just happened, and I don't really know what qualified for them. I faded the images in the list, as the only ones I am really interested in are the geographical ones.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Twenty-five days into the Challenge, my nephew, Finley, and I found seven FTFs!

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 7/19/2023 at 5:41 PM, Bandweber said:

However, what the hell is the prbolem on fullfilling this challenge? Yes, go for ALCs and log them one day after the other. Go for a trail and log them one day after the other. It is absolutely and completely free for everyone to play the game as he or she wants to. And who the hell will make proof that in case there is any trail close by, that I am not doing and finding one cache fater each other one day after each other? I actually and really did that for another Streak challenge. It was hard, but possible.

 

Again: I absolutely dislike this challenge but I am sure to make all three souvenirs. And I also hope that we will have a more "challenging" new challenge in August.

 

Best regards from central Germany

 

I don't think anything brings out the American in Germans quite like geocaching.

[+JakeDot]

I did not receive the 28 days souvenir despite it being counted correctly in my statistics page. Is there still an issue there?

 

I have little "normal" geocache finds, most of them were adventures. On day 28, one lab was apparently counted towards day 27, but I logged another later and since I still didn't receive it, a Traditional too. Still nothing.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by JakeDot

[+BirdSearcher]

“Current Streak
28 consecutive days with finds since 01/07/2023”

The start date for the souvenir streak is July 3, so Sunday will be the earliest date that you can fulfill the challenge.

[+JakeDot]

Aah thank you, I was not thinking of that! Well I just need two more, should be doable 😂

[+Phronimos]

Another 2 cents worth... Today is the 30th of July in New Zealand, and I got my 28th geocache to achieve the Wheel of Challenges: Streak Star Hard souvenir. It didn’t happen. Checking back I only got 5 AdLabs on the 23rd - no actual geocache. Being Day 21 and a week ago there was no time to correct that situation.

So I went back and changed the date of one of my multiple finds on the 22nd to the day later. 

Now I have been awarded the souvenir for accomplishing the Hard option... Awarded on the 24th! 

Go figure. I can resolve this with myself as I have been out 28 days in a row in the New Zealand Winter - rain, cold, frosts, rain (9 days of consecutive rain!) - where on a particularly tough day I just got 5 AdLabs which didn’t count!

This was a tough Challenge. Tougher even than my previous 198 and 366 day streaks I’ve previously achieved. Mainly due to cleaning out most of the local area out to an hour’s drive. That’s hardly environmentally friendly IMHO! Poorly conceived. Poorly administered.

Generally Disappointed!

[+Phronimos]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:57 AM, funkymunkyzone said:

 

Yeah I was worried about that last month with the logging on 20 individual days, but it seemed to all work perfectly.

 

If it doesn't work this month though, that's going to entirely mess with the whole streak challenge - I have found and logged on 2 consecutive days but it doesn't recognise it... :/

 

 

See my comment, just now

I have noticed here in New Zealand if you do an AdLab before 12 Noon it’s dated the previous day; after Noon the actual correct day/date. But I’ve also noted (to my cost) even observing that rule, my AdLab finds didn’t count on the 23rd July, potentially spoiling my Streak.

[Ranger Fox]

Keep it going!  You've come this far, so you can do it!  Perhaps keep going, too, to see how far you can take it?  That's what I did, out of curiosity.

 

 

tl;dr

- Don't fake it because doing so would likely not make you feel as good about yourself as doing the real thing.

- I noticed I'm coming to a milestone, then I dismiss it, though this is the first time I've paid attention.  I mention it only to establish the premise I have experience in the matter and to set myself up as someone to whom questions could be addressed.

- Because I'm intense at most of what I do, I play my interests off against each other to avoid burnout and still maintain a level of intensity long-term.  Cache-a-day is simply an interest that forces me to take a healthy break from work and other interests.  This is the core value to me of maintaining a streak and why I continue.  Other people likely have other reasons for the things they do.

- There can be that many caches to find if you don't go cache crazy in your home area.  Do that elsewhere over the weekend.  Then, if it snows or you don't have a lot of time, you could always burn a nearby cache.  My philosophy has been to do the most inconvenient thing for the time you have available.

- We learn I fail at brevity even when writing a summary.  (Then, you really don't want to see my novella epic logs.)

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Go for a trail and log them one day after the other. It is absolutely and completely free for everyone to play the game as he or she wants to. And who the hell will make proof that in case there is any trail close by, that I am not doing and finding one cache after each other one day after each other? I actually and really did that for another Streak challenge. It was hard, but possible.

No, no, no.  You don't do this.  For the first day, you do one on the trail.  For the second day, you do one 20km away.  For the third day, you do one somewhere else.  Later, you can go back to the trail and do another.  This helps prove to others you're honest.  If people know you did this, they won't ever take anything you do seriously.  Though I'm doing cache-a-day primarily for internal reasons, I might as well also go for actions and a reputation beyond questioning though it's a pointless achievement in a zero sum game.  So, I'm going to do it, do it properly, and follow every restrictive rule I hear of that's sensible, just because I can.  (So, no, events, virtuals, earthcaches, labs, etc. don't count for what I do.)

 

Please note this is how I like to play.  You (using the general term, not directed at a specific person or the quote poster) play however you want.  But if you do, don't seek acknowledgement or praise from me for a false achievement, nor expect any credibility issued for anything achieved above board.  If others' acknowledgement is important to you, you must play by the rules others set/recognize as terms for their acknowledgement.  That only makes sense.

 

But I cannot believe one can feel any self accomplishment or pride in claiming something they know they didn't achieve.  Doing something well and properly makes you feel good and proud, enhances your self confidence, and lets you respect yourself more for it.  Wonderful positives!  We can only speculate what living the lie might feel like or do to a person.

 

 

 

Oh, I actually noticed today I will be hitting a milestone later this week.  Interesting.  I might forget about it by the time it happens.  But too bad I won't get that souvenir on the same day.  (Dates below in MM/DD/YYYY.)

All that's nice and all, but I'm not in it for the achievement or acknowledgement.  I'm in it because cache-a-day is part of something I have that enforces a minimum healthy balance.  I am intense at all my major interests, and this includes work.  For me to retain such intensity long-term without burnout, I play my different interests off against each other.  This creates balance.  Work is sedentary, so I play it off against geocaching.  Geocaching forces me not to linger in any one place, so I play it off against landscape photography, with forces me to stay there.  I balance week-long 2K+ solo cache runs against working extra hours or something else.  And during a workday, cache-a-day will force me to take a break.  For example, I put in fifteen hours of work on Thursday.  I left work around 7PM to go outside to do a cache and get something to eat before continuing work, stopping around 1AM.  Since cache-a-day has a time limit, it's effective.  I don't think landscape photography every day would work as well for me.

 

(And how can there be that many caches to find for this?  Simple: I find the caches most inconvenient to the time I have available--the ones that take the most time, in other words.  I've always saved caches for a literal rainy day even when I started caching.  Since many weekdays I can sink from two to three hours into a cache, transportation included, this means I can leave enough convenient stuff lying around to burn for the few days a year it snows and ices.  The convenient stuff either gets archived or I eventually get around to finding it.  I usually find stuff outside my area during the weekends, so I really only need around 260 new caches a year within an hour's drive for the area to be maintained.  That's not asking too much.  I just make sure I don't go crazy caching in my own rather large area.  I just do that elsewhere. Then I get to feel all good and sinfully guilty about being lazy slacking off by doing just one on a weekday.)

 

Yeah, that's a lot of information, but you should be able to see why I do it and why it's so easy to do.  I'll answer any questions once I notice a reply.  This subform isn't the main one I hang out in.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ranger Fox
Removed about a dozen sentences to make it a bit shorter. Ooooohhhh...

[+Phronimos]

Roger Fox, you wrote, “Keep it going!  You've come this far, so you can do it!  Perhaps keep going, too, to see how far you can take it?  That's what I did, out of curiosity.”...

My personal issue was not that I had to fudge a date, it’s the issue that “Yes, Adventure Labs count”, when it’s my experience both last month and this Challenge, that there’s more to this than apparent. It’s also a bit rough to find out that after completing the requirements of the Challenge, you learn that that wasn’t actually the case. 

Done the mahi (NZ Maori for “work”) didn’t get the expected result. Not my problem. Groundspeak’s problem. Problems were flagged at the start of the Challenge, and IMHO there’s still problems.

Congrats Roger Fox on continuing a Streak to 6,000 consecutive days. 

One of the long-run Streakers in NZ had to finally stop to have a baby! 

Play the game how you want, but keep the rules consistent.

if Adventure Labs are included and are then not, is not “keeping within the rules”.

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, Ranger Fox said:

(And how can there be that many caches to find for this?  Simple: I find the caches most inconvenient to the time I have available--the ones that take the most time, in other words.  I've always saved caches for a literal rainy day even when I started caching.  Since many weekdays I can sink from two to three hours into a cache, transportation included, this means I can leave enough convenient stuff lying around to burn for the few days a year it snows and ices.  The convenient stuff either gets archived or I eventually get around to finding it.  I usually find stuff outside my area during the weekends, so I really only need around 260 new caches a year within an hour's drive for the area to be maintained.  That's not asking too much.  I just make sure I don't go crazy caching in my own rather large area.  I just do that elsewhere. Then I get to feel all good and sinfully guilty about being lazy slacking off by doing just one on a weekday.)

 

I can only dream of 260 new caches a year within an hour's drive of home. So far this year, there have been 17 new caches within my local government area (a reasonable approximation of an hour's driving radius, given the way our roads run) but 6 of those are mine. In all of last year, there were 29 (4 of those mine) so a similar rate, and the total number of caches in the region is currently 495 (43 are mine).

 

My long-term average find rate is about 13 caches a month, on an average of 6 caching days a month, way too small for me to have any showing in these promotions, but even that isn't sustainable as I have to keep traveling further and further afield to make those finds. Of my 29 caching days in the four months since the Wheel of Challenges promotion began, 5 have been to local caches, 12 have been half-day trips to northern Sydney or Lake Macquarie and 12 have been full-day trips to central Sydney, Newcastle or beyond.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the caching I do, it's just not the sort of caching HQ wants us to do with their promotions as that simply isn't possible here.

[+Northern Trekker]

Any speculation on what the August Challenge will be?

[+JL_HSTRE]

5 hours ago, Ranger Fox said:

But I cannot believe one can feel any self accomplishment or pride in claiming something they know they didn't achieve.  Doing something well and properly makes you feel good and proud, enhances your self confidence, and lets you respect yourself more for it.  Wonderful positives!  We can only speculate what living the lie might feel like or do to a person.

 

Hustle has two meanings and, ironically, they are diametrically opposed. To work hard and to swindle. People who hustle tend to be proud of it, regardless of which version applies to them. One hustle means they have impressive dedication and determination, but the other shows how clever they are.

[+OusKonNé & Cétyla]

44 minutes ago, Northern Trekker said:

Any speculation on what the August Challenge will be?

 

I hope the August Challenge will be more environmentally friendly by not encouraging geocachers to travel several miles/km per day to find caches for 28 consecutive days...

[+thebruce0]

6 hours ago, OusKonNé &amp; Cétyla said:

I hope the August Challenge will be more environmentally friendly by not encouraging geocachers to travel several miles/km per day to find caches for 28 consecutive days...

In that case any challenge could be described as encouraging that depending on who you ask and what their local area looks like for geocaching. You're effectively asking them to not issue worldwide challenges.

[+Clongo_Rongo]

8 hours ago, Northern Trekker said:

Any speculation on what the August Challenge will be?

 

it may be find 10 different Icons in August ? 

 

[+Phronimos]

First WOC Challenge = smiley = Seeking Smileys = 100 caches

2nd WOC = hearts = Favourite Fan = 1000 Fav points

3rd WOC = car = Out and About = cache 20 days

4th WOC = star = Streaking Star = 28 day Streak

That leaves what looks like coins with multi-cache symbol and the two people symbol.

I would interpret those as possibly trackables and events.

[+barefootjeff]

5 minutes ago, Phronimos said:

I would interpret those as possibly trackables and events.

 

The official Wheel of Challenges geocoin describes those remaining two as "multi" and "cache with friends". My guess is they'll both be Leaderboard challenges, one with extra points for finding multis (perhaps similar to the Favourites one in May with 20 points for a multi, 10 points for everything else and a target of 1000 points) and the other will combine your score in the Leaderboard with that of your friends, similar to what was done in the Mary Hyde promotion in 2017.

[+billy robson]

Well, hopefully, next month is a streak of multi caches, those are my favourite ?

Edited July 30, 2023 by billy robson

[Ranger Fox]

5 hours ago, billy robson said:

Well, hopefully, next month is a streak of multi caches, those are my favourite ?

I'd fail that one!  In my area, it seems only traditionals and mysteries are published these days.  I'd have to drive an hour and a half away to the same area every day to keep something like that up!  I guess I wouldn't mind because that would be driving to the same area I drove to for seven years when I had a job in that direction.  Yeah, I drove around 112km to work in the morning and 112km to where I lived, plus caching mileage, after work.  It would be the commute all over again.

 

From just looking at the icons, I'd agree you'd think they would be finding multis (and two other certain other cache types) and events.  It would be good to announce the event one ahead of time so people can start making events.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

So far this year, there have been 17 new caches within my local government area

I've often wondered why two people don't get together and agree to create caches for each other to find.  That would solve most problems.  While this has all sorts of ethical concerns, if you were the only person in town playing this game, I suppose you could create a sock account to hide caches, then go back out after they're published and find them with your main account.  That's not really the ideal way, though.  Perhaps interest a friend or significant other in playing and caching.  There has to be an acceptable, ethical solution.

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Phronimos said:

One of the long-run Streakers in NZ had to finally stop to have a baby! 

Perhaps the father could have brought a cache log to the hospital every day?