Garmin Announces Montana 7x0 - 2020-08-05

[+Atlas Cached]

Finally, a Montana 6x0 replacement is available!

 

Check out Garmin's Montana 7x0 press release here.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Atlas Cached
added eye candy

[+Mineral2]

Interesting design. Larger screen, flatter profile, looks like it's dock-ready. Routable topographic map (probably part OSM-based?). Interface with a quicklink taskbar at the bottom. Looks like it's built to interface with a vehicle dock. 

I wonder if the Montana is now being marketed less as a handheld and more as an adventure-mobile device. I also wonder if this forecasts changes to the Oregon lineup when the next version in the series gets released - soon I hope. It would be nice to see the oregon get a larger screen while retaining its nice hand-held size.

[+ecanderson]

Says "TopoActive and City Navigator", and the former is OSM based, yes.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by ecanderson

[+Atlas Cached]

GPSrChive > Montana > Montana 7x0 is LIVE!

 

 

[+Mineral2]

16 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Says "TopoActive and City Navigator", and the former is OSM based, yes.

 

I don't know where you see City Navigator. The Oregon 700's specs page lists: "TopoActive, by region; Federal Public Lands maps, North America only"

I'm not sure if that means the north america version comes with both TopoActive and Federal Public Lands or just the FPL map. But TopoActive is already routable with POIs so I don't know why they would package it with City Navigator.

[+cerberus1]

8 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

I don't know where you see City Navigator. 

 

Maybe it's not correct, but "Whether on- or off-road, these handhelds seamlessly transition from trails to road navigation thanks to the preloaded TopoActive and City Navigator maps " is clearly written in the first paragraph in the press release.  

[+Viajero Perdido]

7 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

seamlessly

 

Two different maps with two different names sure sounds like a "seam" to me.

 

Marketing...

 

[+luvvinbird]

Only the 700i and 750i have the additional City Navigator maps.

[+Atlas Cached]

1 hour ago, luvvinbird said:

Only the 700i and 750i have the additional City Navigator maps.

 

Based on what?

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Atlas Cached

[+HHL]

7 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Based on what?

https://buy.garmin.com/de-DE/DE/p/633697/pn/010-02133-01#specs

[+luvvinbird]

From the Garmin.com website under specs. Only 700i and 750i list CN as an additionally pre-loaded map.

[+Atlas Cached]

7 minutes ago, luvvinbird said:

From the Garmin.com website under specs. Only 700i and 750i list CN as an additionally pre-loaded map.

 

Huh. That's interesting. 

 

One of the key new features of the Montana 7x0 (Automatic Map Selection based on routing selection) requires both TopoActive and CityNavigator maps be installed for it to function.

 

Either a typo, or they are going to force users to buy additional mapping before the new features will work.

[+ecanderson]

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

I don't know where you see City Navigator. The Oregon 700's specs page lists: "TopoActive, by region; Federal Public Lands maps, North America only"

I'm not sure if that means the north america version comes with both TopoActive and Federal Public Lands or just the FPL map. But TopoActive is already routable with POIs so I don't know why they would package it with City Navigator.

 

Hope you weren't really looking at an Oregon.

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/699779

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by ecanderson

[+Atlas Cached]

Those are for the "7x0i" models, not the 700.

[+Mineral2]

Ok. That clears up that confusion. I was looking at the 700 (base model). Interesting that they chose to include CN only with the inreach devices. I wonder if both maps come with lifetime updates.

 

On that note, after watching a few YouTube videos showing off production models, this thing is huge. Perhaps larger than one might want to carry on a hike, but good for motorized sports (ATV, ORV, Single Track, etc.).

Edited August 6, 2020 by Mineral2

[+ecanderson]

Figured we were looking at the family, not just some of the 700 series models.

 

I wonder how many will pop the extra $100 for the inReach capability?  I wouldn't imagine a huge % of cachers get so far out into the weeds that it would be important enough, but as we get older, those of us that do have to consider our options.  In the middle of the Rocky Mountains, cell service isn't something you see much.

 

 

 

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, ecanderson said:

I wonder how many will pop the extra $100 for the inReach capability? 

I wouldn't imagine a huge % of cachers get so far out into the weeds that it would be important enough, but as we get older, those of us that do have to consider our options. 

 

 I looked at options yesterday, and InReach was one.  Most bells n whistles I can do without.

 - But I could pick up a PLB on sale with no monthly service, and save a lot of money.     

I can see this thing for folks who want a replacement for a Nuvi on their quad, and take it with 'em caching too.

[+ecanderson]

I know that many of these PLB devices are also available as 'messengers' as well with monthly plans that allow one to post regular position updates, but does the Garmin unit require a monthly plan if you were only to use it for emergency services, the same as a straight PLB?  Not sure how that works.

 

[+Atlas Cached]

All inReach devices require a subscription.

[+Mineral2]

Yes. You are paying for access to the Iridium satellite communication network which powers the iNreach devices. What kills me are the prices and terms of each of the plans. It's so old-fashioned and ridiculous.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

20 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Yes. You are paying for access to the Iridium satellite communication network which powers the iNreach devices. What kills me are the prices and terms of each of the plans. It's so old-fashioned and ridiculous.

Confucius say:  "What go up, must go down".

[+Atlas Cached]

27 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Yes. You are paying for access to the Iridium satellite communication network which powers the iNreach devices. What kills me are the prices and terms of each of the plans. It's so old-fashioned and ridiculous.

 

Coming from someone that makes as many negative remarks as you, I will take a grain of salt with this one.

 

The simplest 'Freedom Plan' they offer is very affordable (<$20 month), and allows the user to turn it off/on at any time of the year as desired. They have several additional options designed to fit each individual users needs.

[+Viajero Perdido]

51 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

very affordable (<$20 month),

 

I mentally multiply such numbers by 12 to get a better idea of the cost, eg annual.

Compare with a dedicated PLB that requires no subscription:  https://www.rei.com/product/161982/acr-electronics-resqlink-400-personal-locator-beacon

This uses a different satellite system, and the SOS goes directly to search-and-rescue in the country where you've registered it.  But this style can only send one type of message: coordinates/HELP!

 

I've been carrying a PLB for years.  The cost hasn't been adding up.

[+Atlas Cached]

I can see many issues immediately!

 

inReach sends SOS to proper authorities for your actual location, NOT where you registered the device! Seems to me this alone could be a life or death difference when response time is of the essence! 

 

Also, the inReach devices offer many additional features and capabilities that the PLB does not, including allowing others to track you progress in real time from anywhere on the planet, and allowing two way email and SMS communication between yourself and friends or family, as well as the Rescue Crew after an SOS is Triggered, which allows you to provide important information with them in real time, and that may make all the difference in a rescue attempt. 

 

inReach devices also allow the user to view detailed weather forecasts and conditions for any location on Earth, from any location on Earth, any time they desire. This feature may actually help the user prevent putting themselves into a situation that will require rescue. You know the saying... The easiest fights to win are the ones that never happen?

 

According to multiple articles online (example 01, example 02), more than 98% of PLB distress signals are false alarms, and many agencies regard them as a nuisance, unlike inReach devices which require subscriptions to function.

 

As always, YMMV.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Is this not a geocaching forum?  Can the PLB be used for geocaching after downloading cache descriptions?

[+Viajero Perdido]

Any and all discussions about Global Positioning Systems, especially GPS receivers, paperless caching and related software or hardware.

[+Mineral2]

The inreach devices certainly fill a niche market, but I suggest a much needed device for those markets. When Garmin took over DeLorme and rebranded the inReach devices as their own., I figured it was only a matter of time before garmin combined it with their in-house handheld technology. Sure enough, the 66i came out, and now the Montana 700i and 750i. It's curious that they're deliberately not releasing a Montana 750 without the inreach technology. I guess if you want one of these devices *and* you want a camera, you must spend the extra for the inReach technology.

The removable battery is a nice touch. Not only can you swap it out for a replacement while charging a worn one, but it means that when the battery reaches end of life, your device hasn't. (assuming these can still be bought years from now) Still, there's something to be said for the classic handhelds using AA batteries. I hope that doesn't go away when the Oregon, eTrex, and gpsMap lines get their next redesign. Garmin - don't be like Apple.

Garmin still doubled down on the microUSB-A port rather than the new USB-C standard. This is one that still has my head scratching. The microUSB port and cable are less durable than the previous miniUSB and certainly the newer USB-C. How many of you have seen your cell phones refuse to hold a cable because the cords put grooves in the plastic around the usb ports? Unless it's an all-metal design, this will be the point of failure for these devices.

In general, I like what Garmin is doing here, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in stock for the Oregon line. 

[+rjmlakota]

On 8/7/2020 at 7:19 PM, Mineral2 said:

Still, there's something to be said for the classic handhelds using AA batteries.

 

Based on the Montana 700 series owners manual, we'll be able to install AA batteries into the device with an optional batter pack sold separately for $59.99.

 

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-20A50E5B-3DFB-42C7-A3B4-8D55519B532C/EN-US/GUID-F2E1B526-90B0-43AF-81F9-AA30D77D4595.html

 

I also just did a chat session with Garmin support and someone by the name of "Chris" confirmed that the 750i comes with lifetime updates for City Navigator.

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by rjmlakota

[+Atlas Cached]

The "AA Battery Pack" is only compatible with the Montana 700, and can not physically fit into the Montana 700i or 750i.

 

All inReach devices require a Lithium-ion power source.

[Sgt_Strider]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:22 AM, Atlas Cached said:

The "AA Battery Pack" is only compatible with the Montana 700, and can not physically fit into the Montana 700i or 750i.

 

All inReach devices require a Lithium-ion power source.

 

I don't know why Garmin would not make the other units compatible with the AA battery pack. 

 

 

[Sgt_Strider]

Now that the 700 and AA battery pack is out, I'm just wondering what kind of battery life I can expect if I have a track log recording with an interval of 1 second?

[Sgt_Strider]

I'm really hoping Garmin would update the Montana 700 with the multi-frequency chipset.

 

How is the accuracy of the Montana 700's GPS?

 

Garmin's website said the device only support 32GB micro-SD cards. Seems a bit odd given how prevalent higher capacity cards are in the market. What happens if I stick a 128GB card into the Montana 700?

 

Can the Montana 700 use Wifi to download the EPO data to speed up GPS signal acquisition?

[+Atlas Cached]

1 hour ago, Sgt_Strider said:

 

I don't know why Garmin would not make the other units compatible with the AA battery pack. 

 

 

 

The answer is in the text you quoted. 8^)

[Sgt_Strider]

2 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

The answer is in the text you quoted. 8^)

 

I get that, but it's odd that Garmin wouldn't engineer the other units to be compatible with the battery pack?

[+Atlas Cached]

6 hours ago, Sgt_Strider said:

I get that, but it's odd that Garmin wouldn't engineer the other units to be compatible with the battery pack?

On 8/11/2020 at 8:22 AM, Atlas Cached said:

All inReach devices require a Lithium-ion power source.

[Sgt_Strider]

3 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Why? What's so special about lithium-ion? AA not capable of delivering the power required?

[+Atlas Cached]

That is correct.

 

All the other GPSr are one way only, that is Receive, which requires very little power.

 

But the inReach devices actually TRANSMIT, and need sufficient power to get a signal through the atmosphere and into space to the required satellite - this requires more power than a pair of "aa" batteries can muster.

[Sgt_Strider]

2 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

That is correct.

 

All the other GPSr are one way only, that is Receive, which requires very little power.

 

But the inReach devices actually TRANSMIT, and need sufficient power to get a signal through the atmosphere and into space to the required satellite - this requires more power than a pair of "aa" batteries can muster.

 

It's hard to believe that 3 AA batteries doesn't provide enough power to do that. 

[+Atlas Cached]

10 minutes ago, Sgt_Strider said:

It's hard to believe that 3 AA batteries doesn't provide enough power to do that. 

 

Some people also find it hard to believe man walked on the moon, but what can you do?

[Tahoe Skier5000]

4 hours ago, Sgt_Strider said:

 

It's hard to believe that 3 AA batteries doesn't provide enough power to do that. 

 

It pains me to say this, as I despise proprietary battery packs, but lithium ion provides more amperage without as much voltage drop. This is why it is better suited for use in something that transmits RF power. 

 

I think AAs are rated for something like 0.5 to 1.5 amps max. Inreach alone transmits at 1.6 amps.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tahoe Skier5000

[+mustakorppi]

Li ion AA batteries exist, and in fact that's what Garmin recommends people to use with that optional battery pack. Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries can handle 4 amp peaks and 2.5 sustained.

 

A $60 optional battery adapter really should also support AA sized li ion rechargeables (14500), but yeah...

[+Atlas Cached]

6 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

Li ion AA batteries exist, and in fact that's what Garmin recommends people to use with that optional battery pack. Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries can handle 4 amp peaks and 2.5 sustained.

 

A $60 optional battery adapter really should also support AA sized li ion rechargeables (14500), but yeah...

 

Yes, but, unfortunately, their is no way to make an AA battery pack adapter that ONLY accepts Li-ion cells, which prevents Garmin from allowing this option in an attempt to idiot-proof their devices. It is certain that if they allowed 'AA' batteries to be used with their inReach devices, someone would install the cheapest garbage available on amazon in their device, find themselves in a real emergency, and not be able to call for help because their non lithium batteries would not be up to the task, and Garmin would be sued in court for allowing the combination because 'they should have known better'. So, in order to protect the consumer from themselves, no AA battery packs for any inReach devices will ever be made available. You have only yourselves to thank.

[+Mineral2]

6 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

Li ion AA batteries exist, and in fact that's what Garmin recommends people to use with that optional battery pack. Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries can handle 4 amp peaks and 2.5 sustained.

Please understand that Energizer Lithium AA batteries are not the same thing as Lithium-ion rechargeable batteries. It is a different chemistry and a different functional output. Do not mistake Lithium for Lithium-ion.

[+Atlas Cached]

9 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Please understand that Energizer Lithium AA batteries are not the same thing as Lithium-ion rechargeable batteries. It is a different chemistry and a different functional output. Do not mistake Lithium for Lithium-ion.

 

I was just looking that up, thank you for posting the answer!

[+mustakorppi]

4 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Yes, but, unfortunately, their is no way to make an AA battery pack adapter that ONLY accepts Li-ion cells, which prevents Garmin from allowing this option in an attempt to idiot-proof their devices. It is certain that if they allowed 'AA' batteries to be used with their inReach devices, someone would install the cheapest garbage available on amazon in their device, find themselves in a real emergency, and not be able to call for help because their non lithium batteries would not be up to the task, and Garmin would be sued in court for allowing the combination because 'they should have known better'. So, in order to protect the consumer from themselves, no AA battery packs for any inReach devices will ever be made available. You have only yourselves to thank.

You do know that SPOT has managed to sell similar devices running on AAA for years now? 

[+mustakorppi]

4 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Please understand that Energizer Lithium AA batteries are not the same thing as Lithium-ion rechargeable batteries. It is a different chemistry and a different functional output. Do not mistake Lithium for Lithium-ion.

I mean, I did make the distinction between AA (primary) batteries and rechargeables, but you are correct that they use a different chemistry and I wrote that bit wrong.

[+Atlas Cached]

11 minutes ago, mustakorppi said:

You do know that SPOT has managed to sell similar devices running on AAA for years now? 

 

A. We are not talking about SPOT devices here, we are talking about the Montana 7x0. Grapes and Grapefruits!

B. Spot devices do not offer 10% of the capability and features of inReach, so, again, apples and oranges. Not a  valid comparison.

[+mustakorppi]

43 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

A. We are not talking about SPOT devices here, we are talking about the Montana 7x0. Grapes and Grapefruits!

B. Spot devices do not offer 10% of the capability and features of inReach, so, again, apples and oranges. Not a  valid comparison.

This is the comment I was responding to, specifically the part about how not being able to prevent the use of wrong kind of AA would lead to a certain lawsuit if the device didn’t work in a ”real emergency”

 

5 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

It is certain that if they allowed 'AA' batteries to be used with their inReach devices, someone would install the cheapest garbage available on amazon in their device, find themselves in a real emergency, and not be able to call for help because their non lithium batteries would not be up to the task, and Garmin would be sued in court for allowing the combination because 'they should have known better'.

 
SPOT devices are a relevant because they offer similar ”real emergency” functionality, and they specifically only support Lithium and NiMh AAA batteries, with nothing physically stopping people from putting alkalines in instead.

 

We could also return to the previous topic of amps required by InReach transmitting. I wonder  if Garmin engineers could make Montana turn off the screen and other new-fangled features while transmitting. Because then AA batteries would definitely be enough.

Edited March 31, 2021 by mustakorppi

[+Atlas Cached]

I don't know who you are arguing with other than yourself.

 

Garmin does not, and has not ever produced an inReach device that is powered by AA batteries, and I see no indication that they ever will.

 

The fact that DeLorme and Spot both manufactured emergency beacons in the past that were powered by AA batteries has absolutely no relevance to the subject of this thread, which is the Garmin Montana 7x0.

[+Atlas Cached]

1 hour ago, mustakorppi said:

SPOT devices are a relevant because they offer similar ”real emergency” functionality

 

SPOT devices are hardly similar to Garmin inReach devices.

 

SPOT devices offer the user a one-way outgoing emergency distress call option, that once initiated, the user can only hope and/or assume was received and help is on the way, and the emergency responders have no way ascertaining any information related to the nature of the distress call.

 

Garmin inReach devices, which the Montana 700i and 750i are, offer bi-directional communication 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

 

Garmin inReach devices allow the user to transmit pertinent information to the responding crew while receiving instructions that can help save lives while keeping everyone on the same page, in real time.

 

Garmin inReach devices allow users to automatically send a bread-crumb trail of there location to the cloud where friends, family members and other authorized individuals can keep track of their location and progress, in real time, without requiring any other action on the users part.

 

Garmin inReach devices allow users to communicate bi-directionally with the entire outside world via direct messaging, sms, and email. This means you can not only send regular detailed updates to family and friends to reassure them of your condition or any specific needs, or changes in schedule etc, but so can they send you the same types of information, available directly on your inReach device, anywhere in the world, 24/7/365.

 

Garmin inReach devices can provide the user with highly detailed hour by hour weather forecasts for any location on Earth, from any location on Earth, at any time desired, 24/7/365, assisting the user in adapting their trip in such a way they can avoid inclement weather conditions that may otherwise leave someone stranded and/or worse.

 

Garmin inReach devices also allow users to post timely updates about their trip to their Facebook and Twitter accounts, 24/7/365.

 

Remember, with a SPOT, you just push a button, and then wait, hoping the signal went out and was received and someone is on the way. With a Garmin inReach device, you are always in contact with the entire world, from anywhere in the world, so you and your loved one never have to wonder or guess about your status.