Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4
Enjayen

Am I a jerk for removing FPs on archived caches?

Recommended Posts

Late to the discussion.. I been busy. But they are your favorites and you get to do what you want. But I never would and consider it mean spirited. If you need more favorites to award then go find more caches.

  • Upvote 4
  • Funny 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post
23 hours ago, HoochDog said:

 And if you take away a fav point from an archived cache, you can always go back and re-add it later once you get more.  

 

 

I didn't know this! Great advice. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Oxford Stone said:

Many of my 660 favourites have been archived. I took one FP back as although a clever hide it was archived through neglect by a CO notorious for poor maintenance

 

 

No one sees the archived caches on the map so to me it's no big deal taking them back and giving them to spectacular active caches. I especially like to give them to new cachers whose children made them. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Oxford Stone said:

Don't you ever consider letting someone adopt your better / more popular caches when you move?

 

One thing to consider is the original owner of a highly favored cache loses that cache from their cache hiding history once they transfer it to someone else.

 

It could also substantially change under a new owner. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Funny 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, Oxford Stone said:

Don't you ever consider letting someone adopt your better / more popular caches when you move?

 

No, because they're my caches.  If someone wants to take over the spot in their own name, with their own container, they're more than welcome to it. But, perhaps selfishly, I'd like to keep credit for the hides I put out, and for the finds that they got before I moved.

 

The first couple times I moved, I kept my hides going with a maintenance plan, and then eventually put out a quasi-adoption offer - if someone local wanted to recreate the hide, I'd leave the container in place, they could put a new log in, and then the reviewer would publish their cache and archive mine.  I got enthusiastic responses the first time*, then only a couple nibbles the second time.  Starting with the third move, I didn't bother offering.

 

*When I came back to Wiesbaden after being gone for nine years, I was at first looking forward to going out and hunting for my old caches, to see if I could remember how to solve the puzzles and where I put the caches.  But then I discovered that the guy who "adopted" them had fallen out of the game and quit maintaining them.  Several had been archived for lack of maintenance - after planting a replacement cache in the spot where I'd had a hide, I started getting logs that they'd found the original cache container I'd hidden in 2007.  Which made me glad that I had archived the listing, rater than let him adopt my original cache listing and then let it go to heck.  There are I think three reloaded versions of my old caches that are still out there that I haven't hunted for yet.  I'm not sure I want to go look for them anymore.  I'd rather not know how bad he let them get.

  • Upvote 2
  • Helpful 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, hzoi said:

No, because they're my caches.  If someone wants to take over the spot in their own name, with their own container, they're more than welcome to it. But, perhaps selfishly, I'd like to keep credit for the hides I put out, and for the finds that they got before I moved.

 

 

 

That's interesting. I never thought of that before. Good point! I took over a few hiding spots from a cacher but asked him to archive the caches first and I would then plant my own. That gives the same cachers (who found his already) more to find and more points to log. 

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, hzoi said:

No, because they're my caches.  If someone wants to take over the spot in their own name, with their own container, they're more than welcome to it. But, perhaps selfishly, I'd like to keep credit for the hides I put out, and for the finds that they got before I moved.

 

When my partner died, I warned that I would be archiving my Geoart (that my brother-in-law dared me to put out.)  It was a very scenic walk along the Hudson River Walkway.  They needed a lot of maintenance, and I don't go there anymore.  Someone offered to adopt them.  But they were my caches, and my history.  I suggested that he hide his own.  No new caches have been hidden along the walkway.  

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 6/24/2020 at 3:18 PM, HunterandSamuel said:

 

No one sees the archived caches on the map so to me it's no big deal taking them back

But to some other people it is. Most active people playing the game have a goal. For some people it's stat related, like getting as many Jasmer or Fizzy loops as they can. For other people it's just staying active and exploring nature. For you (as far as I can tell) it's getting families together exploring nature. For some people (like us) it's making high quality caches and earning favorite points. No one can see the caches on the map, but you can see the fave points on your profile page (Thank you Groundspeak for a great new feature!). It's not nice to interfere with someone's goals for your own benefit.

Edited by TmdAndGG
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

But to some other people it is. Most active people playing the game have a goal. For some people it's stat related, like getting as many Jasmer or Fizzy loops as they can. For other people it's just staying active and exploring nature. For you (as far as I can tell) it's getting families together exploring nature. For some people (like us) it's making high quality caches and earning favorite points. No one can see the caches on the map, but you can see the fave points on your profile page (Thank you Groundspeak for a great new feature!). It's not nice to interfere with someone's goals.

If my geocache container or D changes and I have to update the page, I get messages from people because I've messed up their stats. And goals. That's not my problem. 

 

If I go find a lonely cache and someone else had planned to find it for a lonely cache goal, too bad. I've messed with their goal. Bad me. 

 

If I archive a cache that someone needed for a goal, I've messed up their plan to get the goal. Too bad. Find a different cache.

 

I'm not going to change how I play the game to suit your goals. You'll have to adjust your goals. 

  • Upvote 4
  • Helpful 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

It's not nice to interfere with someone's goals for your own benefit.

I'll grant you that it's not nice to deliberately interfere with someone else's goals, for the purpose of interfering with their goals.

 

But if I'm doing something for other reasons, and that just happens to interfere with someone else's goals, that's just the way it is. As Max and 99 pointed out, if your goals depend on what others may or may not do, then you have to expect that they might do something that unintentionally thwarts your goals. That's on you, not on the person who unintentionally thwarted your goals.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, niraD said:

if your goals depend on what others may or may not do,

Don't all goals depend on that?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

Don't all goals depend on that?

Some more than others.

 

If my goal is to have fun geocaching, I need less from others. Basically, I just need someone to hide and maintain geocaches.

 

If my goal is to fill some grid or otherwise play some metagame, then I need someone to hide and maintain geocaches with specific metadata.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Let me make an analogy: Let's say that Favorite points are money. You goal is to make as much money as possible. If you find a job (hide a cache) and do good work (make a good cache), then you start making money. But let's say you quit that job (archive your cache), and find a better one with higher pay (make a better cache). Would you be okay if your old employer started taking their money back because you quit working for them?

  • Upvote 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

Let me make an analogy: Let's say that Favorite points are money. You goal is to make as much money as possible. If you find a job (hide a cache) and do good work (make a good cache), then you start making money. But let's say you quit that job (archive your cache), and find a better one with higher pay (make a better cache). Would you be okay if your old employer started taking their money back because you quit working for them?

Let's say your employer put you on the "Employee of the Month" list (gave a Fav point).  After you quit to move on, do you expect that you would remain on that list?  They may or may not keep a "Previous Employee of the Month" list.

  • Upvote 3
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, The Jester said:

Let's say your employer put you on the "Employee of the Month" list (gave a Fav point).  After you quit to move on, do you expect that you would remain on that list?  They may or may not keep a "Previous Employee of the Month" list.

Thank you. That's a much better analogy. And I've worked for employers that do their best to erase the history of former employees, for employers who preserve the history of former employees, and for employers that erase some and preserve others depending on the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, The Jester said:

Let's say your employer put you on the "Employee of the Month" list (gave a Fav point).

One fav point every couple of years? That's terrible! I would only have about 2 points by now!

Edited by TmdAndGG
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

One fav point every couple of years? That's terrible!

If the cache is found only once every couple years, then that's great. (I've seen caches that were found less frequently, that were loved by the few people who found them.)

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, niraD said:

If the cache is found only once every couple years, then that's great. (I've seen caches that were found less frequently, that were loved by the few people who found them.)

I would quit that job if I only got to work one day every couple of years... Even if I got employee of the month practically every time!

Edited by TmdAndGG
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

It's not nice to interfere with someone's goals for your own benefit.

And how am I supposed to know what some else's goal is?  As a cache finder I don't know which CO's are "collecting" FP's for some personal reason.  If my goal for my FP's is to keep a list of active favorite caches, doesn't your  "don't mess with my collected FP's" interfere with my goal?  Who has the strongest claim for two goals that are mutually exclusive?

  • Upvote 2
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/23/2020 at 11:40 AM, terratin said:

I never take off FPs again as they are part of my caching history. I sometimes look through the list and think: wow yes, that one was great! Or: why the heck did I do that? But I'm also very economical with my FPs. I currently have 108 spare ones and really only use them for the best of the best. Bit unusual, but I did spend two last weekend.

 

Of course you don't need to recycle your favorites because you are keeping them for yourself :)
 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

I would quit that job if I only got to work one day every couple of years... Even if I got employee of the month practically every time!

You see, that's why analogy's don't really work all that well as arguments.  Money = FP's breaks down because you are spending any money given by an employer (even investing is giving that money to someone else to "hold" for you) which you don't do with FP's.  Employee of the Month is handled very differently with each list.  So trying to force one thing (FP's) into another model (money) only works just so far.  So let's quit arguing about a poor analogy, talk about FP's and goals in "awarding" or "collecting" them.

  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

It's not nice to interfere with someone's goals for your own benefit.

 

If you weant to keep those favorites you must maintain your caches. It is so simple. :)

  • Upvote 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0? Might as well have just put out 10 cheap pill bottles in guardrails...

Edited by TmdAndGG
  • Helpful 1
  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

If you weant to keep those favorites you must maintain your caches. It is so simple. :)

You can't maintain caches forever!;)

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TmdAndGG said:

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0?

I wouldn't care a bit.

 

1 hour ago, TmdAndGG said:

Might as well have just put out 10 cheap pill bottles in guardrails...

Not at all. The gadget caches would still be part of my history, and a part of the history of everyone who found them.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, niraD said:

Not at all. The gadget caches would still be part of my history, and a part of the history of everyone who found them.

The pill bottles would still be part of your history too!:D

11 minutes ago, niraD said:
1 hour ago, TmdAndGG said:

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0?

I wouldn't care a bit.

 

Cool! I know me and quite a few other people would though.

 

Edited by TmdAndGG
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TmdAndGG said:

You can't maintain caches forever!;)

 

Nobody can but you can maintain them as long as you are interested in those favorites.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:
38 minutes ago, niraD said:

Not at all. The gadget caches would still be part of my history, and a part of the history of everyone who found them.

The pill bottles would still be part of your history too!:D

Yes, and I know which I'd rather have in my history.

 

I expect that you have a preference too, regardless of what happens with the FP once the caches are archived.

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Nobody can but you can maintain them as long as you are interested in those favorites.

Most of the time the majority of favorites stay, I'm just getting picky!:laughing:

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

If you weant to keep those favorites you must maintain your caches. It is so simple. :)

 

Sometimes it's not so simple. I've archived six of my hides so far and none of those were due to lack of maintenance. There were a couple that were washed away in severe storms and I thought any replacement would likely suffer the same fate, one was buried under a rock fall, one had a large tree fall right on top of GZ and the other two suffered repeated mugglings. Those six caches still have 42 FPs across them but I don't mind whether people leave them there or take them back. They're their points, not mine.

 

Other COs I know have had to archive caches when conditions at GZ have changed, like an area of bushland is bulldozed to make way for a new housing estate or a fire has destroyed not only the cache but the tree it was hiding in and all the surrounding trees. The widespread devastating fires across eastern Australia last summer saw many caches archived. Many of those fire grounds remain closed to the public so even if the COs wanted to replace their caches they couldn't.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/24/2020 at 10:26 AM, Oxford Stone said:

Don't you ever consider letting someone adopt your better / more popular caches when you move?

 

This thread prompted me to look at my favourites - I need to give a FP to caches beginning with 0,7,9 and X for the sake of 0-9 A-Z completism. 

 

Many of my 660 favourites have been archived. I took one FP back as although a clever hide it was archived through neglect by a CO notorious for poor maintenance...

There is a cache that requires you to award. FP to caches that begin with certain characters? Not a fan of that!

  • Upvote 2
  • Surprised 3

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

There is a cache that requires you to award. FP to caches that begin with certain characters? Not a fan of that!

 

Do people actually do it ?    

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

For some people it's stat related, like getting as many Jasmer or Fizzy loops as they can.

 

Which brings me to my story about how stats can affect Favorite points. Someone's stats goal affects an owner's goal. 

 

My goal as an owner is to provide a good geocaching experience. The Favorite Point count helps advertise my cache as one that should hopefully provide the majority of cachers with an all-round enjoyable experience. 

 

I was batting about 50% FP rate after about 40 finds on my cache. Then along comes a group of 50 people on a special holiday, looking to find as many non-trads as possible that special day to qualify for a number of different challenge caches including Fizzy and 10-10-10 and to break their previous non-trad record. Since maybe only 4 people actually saw the cache, the cache got only 2 FPs that day. Dropped the % to 20%. 

 

I get the kick to the gut from losing FPs - in my case losing a big percentage.

 

I see FPs as foremost a community tool, a way to advertise a cache to others that they too might enjoy finding the cache.

 

I don't like to see FPs used as a way to bolster stats. I don't trust FP numbers. A CO with a lot of FPs could mean a popular event-going/event-hosting CO who likes to place lots of caches (100s, maybe 1000s). Often they hide too many to maintain and leave it to reviewers to archive as they continue to hide more caches and get more FP points.

 

Tie a bison to a barbie doll or plastic butterfly and watch the FPs flow in. Do something that is against the guidelines and watch the FPs flow in because the cache is "unique". Get a lot of FPs in the first year, by year 3 it's a falling-apart mess, it still looks like it's a great cache and a great owner because it has double digit FPs. 

  • Upvote 4
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Which brings me to my story about how stats can affect Favorite points. Someone's stats goal affects an owner's goal. 

 

My goal as an owner is to provide a good geocaching experience. The Favorite Point count helps advertise my cache as one that should hopefully provide the majority of cachers with an all-round enjoyable experience. 

 

I was batting about 50% FP rate after about 40 finds on my cache. Then along comes a group of 50 people on a special holiday, looking to find as many non-trads as possible that special day to qualify for a number of different challenge caches including Fizzy and 10-10-10 and to break their previous non-trad record. Since maybe only 4 people actually saw the cache, the cache got only 2 FPs that day. Dropped the % to 20%. 

 

I get the kick to the gut from losing FPs - in my case losing a big percentage.

 

I see FPs as foremost a community tool, a way to advertise a cache to others that they too might enjoy finding the cache.

 

I don't like to see FPs used as a way to bolster stats. I don't trust FP numbers. A CO with a lot of FPs could mean a popular event-going/event-hosting CO who likes to place lots of caches (100s, maybe 1000s). Often they hide too many to maintain and leave it to reviewers to archive as they continue to hide more caches and get more FP points.

 

Tie a bison to a barbie doll or plastic butterfly and watch the FPs flow in. Do something that is against the guidelines and watch the FPs flow in because the cache is "unique". Get a lot of FPs in the first year, by year 3 it's a falling-apart mess, it still looks like it's a great cache and a great owner because it has double digit FPs. 

You make some good points!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0? Might as well have just put out 10 cheap pill bottles in guardrails...

 

One of my archived caches was a bit like that. It was a novelty container themed to the location (a wet cave), people enjoyed it and it got a fair share of FPs, but GZ is subject to flash flooding in severe storms and one was eventually severe enough to claim the cache. The devilish imp I used for it is no longer made so replacement wasn't an option. I think it was a good cache and I enjoyed reading the logs it got, but it had its day in the sun (figuratively speaking as it was hiding in total darkness) and it's all history now. Whether people leave their FPs on it or take them back doesn't change any of that and doesn't dimish any of the enjoyment I had from that cache.

 

GC5XVYC.jpg.e02ecf416ba4c5df9cc1af5e0afccd54.jpg

  • Upvote 2
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0? Might as well have just put out 10 cheap pill bottles in guardrails...

Would not care in the slightest.

I see fav points awarded to my caches and I think "That's nice of them". Then move on.

Receiving fav points is never in my mind when I place a cache.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/23/2020 at 8:42 AM, RobinsonClan56 said:

Have some mercy on your colorblind friends! I can't read anything you wrote! :lol:

 

Select the text to read it.( Kinda like some puzzle caches.)

Is this reply a forum 'spoiler'?

  • Funny 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

I don't like to see FPs used as a way to bolster stats. I don't trust FP numbers. A CO with a lot of FPs could mean a popular event-going/event-hosting CO who likes to place lots of caches (100s, maybe 1000s). Often they hide too many to maintain and leave it to reviewers to archive as they continue to hide more caches and get more FP points.

What I like to do is divide the number of favorite points by the number of hides. If they have an average of 1 fav per cache then I don't care how many favorite points they have. If you have an average of 15 or more on the other hand... Now your talking about some good caches!

  • Upvote 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Which brings me to my story about how stats can affect Favorite points. Someone's stats goal affects an owner's goal. 

 

My goal as an owner is to provide a good geocaching experience. The Favorite Point count helps advertise my cache as one that should hopefully provide the majority of cachers with an all-round enjoyable experience. 

 

I was batting about 50% FP rate after about 40 finds on my cache. Then along comes a group of 50 people on a special holiday, looking to find as many non-trads as possible that special day to qualify for a number of different challenge caches including Fizzy and 10-10-10 and to break their previous non-trad record. Since maybe only 4 people actually saw the cache, the cache got only 2 FPs that day. Dropped the % to 20%. 

 

I get the kick to the gut from losing FPs - in my case losing a big percentage.

 

I see FPs as foremost a community tool, a way to advertise a cache to others that they too might enjoy finding the cache.

 

I don't like to see FPs used as a way to bolster stats. I don't trust FP numbers. A CO with a lot of FPs could mean a popular event-going/event-hosting CO who likes to place lots of caches (100s, maybe 1000s). Often they hide too many to maintain and leave it to reviewers to archive as they continue to hide more caches and get more FP points.

 

Tie a bison to a barbie doll or plastic butterfly and watch the FPs flow in. Do something that is against the guidelines and watch the FPs flow in because the cache is "unique". Get a lot of FPs in the first year, by year 3 it's a falling-apart mess, it still looks like it's a great cache and a great owner because it has double digit FPs. 

 

A couple of times I've had a cache sitting on 100% FPs for a year or more until eventually, probably inevitably, along comes someone who has a different caching motivation or just doesn't give out FPs. GC62WZJ managed just over two years before a group seeking rare D/T combinations came through and, with a few other non-FP finds since then, is currently sitting on 77%. GC7YP51 got to 18 months until a couple of newbie PMs didn't think it favourite-worthy. One of them said "Most awesome cache we have found so far!" but didn't favourite it, but they haven't favourited any caches and seem to have given up after three weeks and 15 finds. The other one hasn't given out any FPs in their four years of caching.

 

But one of the great things about caching is its broad appeal and there'll always be cachers who are motivated by very different things than what the CO was expecting. Sure it's a bit sad to see the percentage FPs go into decline but, as long as those non-favouriting cachers have got some enjoyment from the cache, as a CO that's really the best we can hope for.

 

Around here the total number of FPs on any cache or CO doesn't mean much, as what I consider the very best of caches are unlikely to ever get into double-digit FPs as they're unlikely to ever get into double-digit finds. My Nemophilist Challenge, published last October, is currently sitting on 100% but that's just 2 FPs from 2 finds. By contrast, most of the high-FP caches are what I consider to be mundane caches placed in tourist hot-spots. Percentage FPs is probably a better indicator but we can't search on that so it's not much use for advertising great caches. I've also found many enjoyable caches that don't have any FPs; they're good well-made caches that don't have anything wrong with them but they just aren't awesome enough to make it into the top ten percent. With so much bushland and spectacular locations around here, getting into that top ten percent is pretty competitive.

 

As COs, all we can do is put out the best caches we can and hope the finders will enjoy them. Anything beyond that, such as FPs, is a bonus and is something we can't and shouldn't control or lose sleep over. Nothing will ever be everyone's favourite or remain so into the future, so just enjoy the sun while it shines and don't fret when it sets.

  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

What I like to do is divide the number of favorite points by the number of hides. If they have an average of 1 fav per cache then I don't care how many favorite points they have. If you have an average of 15 or more on the other hand... Now your talking about some good caches!

 

Yes. I would prefer to see a ratio rather than total CO FPs.

 

So (if I did the math right): 

  • If  a cache owner has 26 hides and 272 favorite points we would see a FP ratio of 1 : 10.5
  • If a cache owner had 1000 hides and 500 FPs, the ratio would be 1: 0.5

But I'm, for the  most part, not crazy about GCHQ making it about numbers again by adding the total FPs to a profile. I think they did it to encourage quality but didn't think it out fully. FP numbers don't provide a full picture and can be used to score points, rather than improve quality or help find quality caches. 

Edited by L0ne.R
Typo
  • Upvote 2
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

What I like to do is divide the number of favorite points by the number of hides. If they have an average of 1 fav per cache then I don't care how many favorite points they have. If you have an average of 15 or more on the other hand... Now your talking about some good caches!

 

From my own experience I'll have to respectfully disagree with this. During last year's Cache Carnival promotion, one of the caches I found has 158 FPs from 1147 finds. It's a popular cache, no doubt about that, but it's an MKH in a guard rail that just happens to be above the Sydney Harbour ferry wharves where all the interstate and international tourists flock. Its owner has 1147 FPs from 39 hides but only 10 of those hides are still active and some have outstanding NMs. The ones I've done have all been run-of-the-mill urban micros in tourist hotspots.

 

By contrast, one of my most favourited COs has a total of 99 FPs from 23 hides. His hides are mostly challenging bushland ones that don't get many finders, but those that make the effort generally rate them highly. Another cacher here has 106 FPs from 31 hides but many of his hides are part of a themed series where often only one gets an FP for the overall experience. All of his hides are good quality and well maintained, but are in places that don't get large numbers of visitors.

 

One of my all-time favourite caches, published in 2016, has 3 FPs from 4 finds. Another, published by the same CO in 2018, has 3 FPs from 3 finds. These are what I consider to be top-notch caches but they'll never get large numbers of FPs or boost the CO's FP-to-hide ratio by much because they'll only ever get a handful of finders.

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Yes. I would prefer to see a ration rather than total CO FPs.

 

So (if I did the math right): 

  • If  a cache owner has 26 hides and 272 favorite points we would see a FP ratio of 1 : 10.5
  • If a cache owner had 1000 hides and 500 FPs, the ratio would be 1: 0.5

But I'm for the  most part not crazy about GCHQ making it about numbers again by adding the total FPs to a profile. I think they did it to encourage quality but didn't think it out fully. FP numbers don't provide a full picture and can be used to score points, rather than improve quality or help find quality caches. 

Hmm, I give FP's to caches, not CO's.  What other caches they have has no bearing on if I'll give a FP.  So what does the ratio tell me? Nothing.  For a long time CO the ratio is going to be lower since many of their hides might have been done before FP's were around.  And I don't care that they may many "mundane" hides if I find one of their great hides. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

  • If  a cache owner has 26 hides and 272 favorite points we would see a FP ratio of 1 : 10.5

I wonder who that is...

 

10 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

From my own experience I'll have to respectfully disagree with this. During last year's Cache Carnival promotion, one of the caches I found has 158 FPs from 1147 finds. It's a popular cache, no doubt about that, but it's an MKH in a guard rail that just happens to be above the Sydney Harbour ferry wharves where all the interstate and international tourists flock. Its owner has 1147 FPs from 39 hides but only 10 of those hides are still active and some have outstanding NMs. The ones I've done have all been run-of-the-mill urban micros in tourist hotspots.

 

By contrast, one of my most favourited COs has a total of 99 FPs from 23 hides. His hides are mostly challenging bushland ones that don't get many finders, but those that make the effort generally rate them highly. Another cacher here has 106 FPs from 31 hides but many of his hides are part of a themed series where often only one gets an FP for the overall experience. All of his hides are good quality and well maintained, but are in places that don't get large numbers of visitors.

 

One of my all-time favourite caches, published in 2016, has 3 FPs from 4 finds. Another, published by the same CO in 2018, has 3 FPs from 3 finds. These are what I consider to be top-notch caches but they'll never get large numbers of FPs or boost the CO's FP-to-hide ratio by much because they'll only ever get a handful of finders.

Yeah, it never works perfectly. Really the best way is to look at their caches and decide for your self.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look: I'm going to call it quits with this thread, because to me it all seems like pointless arguing that will never change what someone is going to do. The last thing I'm going to say is this: Some people (like me), care about how many FPs they get. And nothing you say is going to change that. So do anything you want with your favorite points. Just know that if you remove one, you might make someone unhappy. But then again, anything you do in this world probably makes someone unhappy. So like I said, do anything you want with your Favorite Points. They're your FPs after all.

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, colleda said:

Would not care in the slightest.

I see fav points awarded to my caches and I think "That's nice of them". Then move on.

Receiving fav points is never in my mind when I place a cache.

 

Agreed.   Most our caches were placed well-before "favorites" ever came out.    

We got enough emails on top of folks logs to know how they felt.   :)

I'm happy that someone writes something in either the cache or online log.  

Share this post


Link to post

Kinda surprised that some take this FP thing so seriously.   We FP individual caches.  Every-other one from that CO may be a piece-a-carp...

We have opinion's on members based on how they relate to others in the hobby.

Years ago, our favorite caches found belonged to a CO that was a real (expletives deleted) disagreeable person.  :)

 - If FPs were around then, they'd have well-over half the finders awarding their caches.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

Some people (like me), care about how many FPs they get.

 

I realize this poster said they were moving on but here's something that I didn't really see mentioned.  Here's the thing that seems to have been glossed over.  You, as the CO, don't control the FPs.  That's purely up to the finder to determine if they wish to award a FP or not.  Trying to create and maintain a cache to accrue FPs doesn't seem to be a goal that should be placed because you can't "control" anything about their decision to award a FP.  You can try to provide the best possible experience (good container, nice location, well maintained) but that doesn't mean that your cache is going to get a FP from a finder.  Take pride in the caches you've created but I wouldn't stress about receiving FPs, even though it appears you do care.  It's something that is out of your control.

 

22 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

The Favorite Point count helps advertise my cache as one that should hopefully provide the majority of cachers with an all-round enjoyable experience. 

 

That's what you desire but that's not a guarantee as to why cachers awarded a FP to your cache.  You may assume that's why they awarded it but they may have a different reason as to why they awarded it.  You yourself have stated that you are willing to award a FP for a well-maintained cache that's big enough to hold swag.  Unless there was more to the cache than that, I wouldn't award a FP to that particular cache just because it was well-maintained and big enough to hold swag.  If it's a 1.5/1.5 small or regular hidden just off a trail that's not too far from parking, then I need something more than that to award a FP - a neat location, a challenging hide, a nice longer hike.  While it would be a nice cache to find, it's not worth a FP from me (my personal opinion) because it isn't enough of an experience for me to award a FP for.

 

22 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

I see FPs as foremost a community tool, a way to advertise a cache to others that they too might enjoy finding the cache.

 

Seeing as how FPs are awarded for a variety of reasons, what you see it as and what others see it as varies.  While there's a good chance that a high FP cache might be a better experience, that doesn't mean that it actually is.  I've used this example before.  I had "locked" in a challenge that required me to find the top 10 FP caches in the state.  Two of them happened to be very close to where I have family so I headed over when I was in the area.  The first was a micro hanging on a tree with fishing line, covered by a fake bass (bison tube inside).  It was in a parking lot of a mall.  Cute, yes.  FP worthy?  Not to me but it was to lots of others.  The other one about 5 miles away was the same concept.  Bison tube hanging from fishing line.  However, it was hanging inside a really neat structure with a great write up, view, and location.  The only thing it was truly missing to earn a FP from me was a nice hike to go along with it.  What some cachers like, other cachers don't.  That's why I always see FPs as a mixed bag.  You even state that you don't trust FP numbers.

 

22 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

I get the kick to the gut from losing FPs - in my case losing a big percentage.

 

See above.  Either they mean something or they don't.  You don't trust FP numbers but believe that yours are somehow more "valid" than all the other caches and therefore more representative of a good cache. It's great if I get FPs but I'm not going to care too much if it doesn't get many FPs.  That part of it is out of my hands.

 

On 6/27/2020 at 2:45 PM, TmdAndGG said:

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0? Might as well have just put out 10 cheap pill bottles in guardrails...

 

Except that you provided a great experience to those cachers who awarded a FP to it when it was found as intended and in working order. It's not that cache any more.  Why would I care if a cache that I no longer have active in the field has FPs or not?  It's not going to get any more FPs so why should I care if it they get removed?  I'd be a bit more concerned if they were being removed when they were active but I still wouldn't really care.  If you wanted them to get a good experience and you did that and they awarded a FP to your gadget cache, then you gave them the experience you hoped to provide.  Can you say the same thing about the experience they might have had if you put out a pill bottle instead?  Would you be proud of that cache and the experience cachers had when finding it instead of the gadget cache?

 

20 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

What I like to do is divide the number of favorite points by the number of hides. If they have an average of 1 fav per cache then I don't care how many favorite points they have. If you have an average of 15 or more on the other hand... Now your talking about some good caches!

 

I don't like this much either.  Let's say they have 20 caches.  1 has 100 FPs and the others have none.  The average is 5 per cache.  Only 1 cache of theirs is earning a FP consistently.  Does that mean their caches are good?  It means that one is most likely better than the others and the others are all mundane caches that might be well maintained but aren't anything special, other than being well maintained.  I prefer to look at the FP% for each cache, not an overall percentage since that can be skewed by one particularly high FP cache and minimal FP caches elsewhere.

 

19 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

FP numbers don't provide a full picture and can be used to score points, rather than improve quality or help find quality caches. 

 

Which again iterates the point between what you believe FPs were created to do and what they actually do.  They can help identify caches that more cachers are likely to enjoy but they are just as subject to the vagaries of those that award them and can indicate/identify caches that might not truly be good experiences for a majority of cachers.

 

8 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

Really the best way is to look at their caches and decide for your self.

 

Which is why it's really not worth it to "worry" about getting or losing FPs.  They mean way too many things to so many different cachers that to place any sort of vindication as a CO on your caches that have FPs doesn't necessarily indicate one thing or another.  They can indicate a potentially "better" experience, but only if that experience meshes with what each finder determines to be "better".  Someone who doesn't like clever or difficult hides isn't going to enjoy a high FP cache that has been given a lot of FPs due to how clever or sneaky the hide is.  The same goes for me as a CO.  If I'm proud of my cache, it doesn't matter how many FPs it gets.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/27/2020 at 11:13 PM, Max and 99 said:

There is a cache that requires you to award. FP to caches that begin with certain characters? Not a fan of that!

No... as I said, for the sake of completism. Nothing else. mygeocachingprofile shows your found caches and COs beginning A-Z, 0-9... again just for the fun of it.

  • Upvote 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4

×
×
  • Create New...