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Am I a jerk for removing FPs on archived caches?

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Again, it's big deal. When caches are archived...I take back the favorite points to give another one more deserving. 

 

Sounds unusual to me, so maybe I don't understand. 

There are many reasons that caches get archived. We archived a whole series for safety reasons....

If you Favorited a cache you raved about, and the CO died, leaving his family to pick it and others up, you'd take the FP on that cache you just raved about back ?    Thanks.  :)

 

Edited by cerberus1
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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Again, it's big deal. When caches are archived...I take back the favorite points to give another one more deserving. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you only take back favorite points from archived caches if you find another one that's more deserving? I can live with that:)

Edit: Just saw @cerberus1's post now, who seem's to be taking it the other way. Could we get some clarification from @HunterandSamuel please?

Edited by TmdAndGG
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5 hours ago, brodiebunch said:

 

I have 513 favorite points that are unused. Find a way for me to transfer them and you can have mine.

They are unnecessary for us-I have never used favorite point to determine how I geocache or which geocache to search for.

We started giving favorite points but got bored. 

Heh, I would take them.  I'm pretty selective about caches.  More than 1 in 10 of my caches "deserve" them.  I like to thank those who put in the effort to make and maintain caches.

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At the risk of being bopped on the head for going against cerberus1: on the Premium members features page, it says Archived caches keep their Favorite points. You can choose to remove a Favorite point from an archived geocache to award it to a new one.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that archived caches were effectively "removed" from the system. So if a new player like me comes along because we heard about how awesome cache XYZ was but it's been archived - then I can't see it on the map, log it, interact with it or even find any information about it. Unless I was particularly motivated to specifically look for it. In which case, the favourite points (or lack thereof) wouldn't really affect me. Either I can't see it / know it exists; or I am already aware of it and specifically making the effort of looking for it.

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6 hours ago, Unit473L said:

At the risk of being bopped on the head for going against cerberus1: on the Premium members features page, it says Archived caches keep their Favorite points. You can choose to remove a Favorite point from an archived geocache to award it to a new one.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that archived caches were effectively "removed" from the system.

 

So if a new player like me comes along because we heard about how awesome cache XYZ was but it's been archived - then I can't see it on the map, log it, interact with it or even find any information about it.

Unless I was particularly motivated to specifically look for it. In which case, the favourite points (or lack thereof) wouldn't really affect me. Either I can't see it / know it exists; or I am already aware of it and specifically making the effort of looking for it.

:D

Sure.   You can choose to remove your FPs from an earlier cache.  I never said you couldn't.

We choose not to.  They were our favorites.    :)

 

Not at all.  Archived caches always remain in your found history by simply hitting "show all logs for : geocaches found".    

You can also view others archived  caches you haven't found by simply accessing the CO's profile.  

They're part of the hobby's history, and remain forever.

 

"A new player like you" who learns of an awesome cache that's now archived simply looks at the CO's owned hides if interested in learning more.

"Okay, cool" and done.

When you're no longer a "new player", you might find a cache that's stuck with you  over the years as still one of your favorites too.  ;)

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23 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Sounds unusual to me, so maybe I don't understand. 

There are many reasons that caches get archived. We archived a whole series for safety reasons....

If you Favorited a cache you raved about, and the CO died, leaving his family to pick it and others up, you'd take the FP on that cache you just raved about back ?    Thanks.  :)

 

 

Of course you don't understand. I'll repeat myself...if a cache is archived...I'll take back the favorite point I gave them to give to another. When did archived caches say they were archived because someone died? News to me. 

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22 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you only take back favorite points from archived caches if you find another one that's more deserving? I can live with that:)

 

 

Yup. A cache that is active. 

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13 hours ago, Unit473L said:

At the risk of being bopped on the head for going against cerberus1:

 

 

Have no fear. It doesn't hurt. Don't ever be afraid to express your opinions on the forum or to disagree with someone. It's called a forum for a reason and what makes it exciting. Different opinions is a good thing. Only when someone tries to change your mind when you gave an opinion does it become...a bully pit. 

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On 7/19/2020 at 5:39 PM, brodiebunch said:

 

I have 513 favorite points that are unused. Find a way for me to transfer them and you can have mine.

They are unnecessary for us-I have never used favorite point to determine how I geocache or which geocache to search for.

We started giving favorite points but got bored. 

 

I'll take them! I especially love to give children who made caches to hide with their parents a favorite. Makes them feel proud and be a geocacher into adulthood! 

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On 7/19/2020 at 5:28 PM, HunterandSamuel said:

Again, it's big deal. When caches are archived...I take back the favorite points to give another one more deserving. 

On 7/19/2020 at 5:50 PM, cerberus1 said:

Sounds unusual to me, so maybe I don't understand. 

There are many reasons that caches get archived. We archived a whole series for safety reasons....

If you Favorited a cache you raved about, and the CO died, leaving his family to pick it and others up, you'd take the FP on that cache you just raved about back ?    Thanks.  :)

1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Of course you don't understand. I'll repeat myself...if a cache is archived...I'll take back the favorite point I gave them to give to another. When did archived caches say they were archived because someone died? News to me. 

 

You said you'd remove a FP from an archived cache,  and "give it to another one more deserving".

I simply trying to figure out how one cache is "more deserving" than another, when you did place a FP on the one archived earlier

So you feel that any cache is "more deserving" than the one you favorited earlier simply because the "newer" one's still in play ?

You're right, I don't understand that thinking...

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1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

I'll take them! I especially love to give children who made caches to hide with their parents a favorite. Makes them feel proud and be a geocacher into adulthood! 


Everyone can do what they want with their fav points but... “for me”... this is the WRONG reason to give out fav points. I give out fav points to caches because... they are my favorites. CrAzy right?  Now if caches that are finger painted pickle jars by a 6 year old hidden in a bush in someone’s front yard is “your” favorite type of cache.. then great!  Award that puppy. But... as others have said, I give out fav points to caches, not cachers.  MY favorite caches are not influenced by whether a cache is archived or placed by a cacher I don’t particularly like (I’d gladly give a GoldenWattle cache a fav point) (joke) (kind of).   I’m awarding the cache and telling other cachers this one IS cool to me (or was cool).  All in all, I think the law of averages is in play here, which means we can all use our best judgement to use our points as we see fit and the system should all balance out. 

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I don't know if other COs are like me but I have no idea whether or not any FPs have been removed from any of my caches, current or archived. If there have been, it would not bother me one iota. My archived caches are history and I never dwell on them in any way. I concentrate on making my current caches enjoyable and if someone gives one a fav point that makes me pleased that they appreciated my cache - whatever the reason. It's the finder's FP and theirs to do whatever they like with.

As a finder I've have never removed a FP as I have enough allocated FPs to meet my needs.

If you're all out of FPs go find some more caches rather than trolling through old finds to get one back.

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17 hours ago, colleda said:

If you're all out of FPs go find some more caches rather than trolling through old finds to get one back.

 

Yep, the story of my life. I keep finding too many caches that really are my favourites and then have to travel further and further afield for a bunch of more mundane finds to get that next elusive point to award, and chances are that amongst that bunch of mundane finds will be one I really want to give an FP to as well.

 

22 hours ago, HoochDog said:

MY favorite caches are not influenced by whether a cache is archived or placed by a cacher I don’t particularly like (I’d gladly give a GoldenWattle cache a fav point) (joke) (kind of).   I’m awarding the cache and telling other cachers this one IS cool to me (or was cool).

 

My favourites are simply the ones where, when I finally reach GZ and have signed the log, I'm thinking Oh wow, that was a really great experience! Usually it begins with an enticing cache page that lured me out there in the first place, maybe some homework to do like a puzzle or a bit of research and trip-planning, then the adventure of getting to GZ (which can sometimes take several days) and finally making the find. Who the CO is or what else is in the container is of little consequence to me, nor is any thought of whether other cachers might find it appealing as I have different tastes to most other cachers. If I'm stiff and sore the next morning, that cache will probably get an FP. Also of no concern to me is what happens to the cache after I've found it, and if it falls into disrepair, is archived or is destroyed in a flood or fire that doesn't alter the favourite-worthy experience I had.

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13 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I keep finding too many caches that really are my favourites and then have to travel further and further afield for a bunch of more mundane finds to get that next elusive point to award, and chances are that amongst that bunch of mundane finds will be one I really want to give an FP to as well.

Instead of feeling forced to find mundane caches one should accept the mechanics of FPs which simply mean you can only give FPs to (at most) 10% of your finds.

When I'm collecting FPs (currently I'm a BM) I always have a hard time to decide but live is to short for collecting mundane caches to make this decision easier.

And to answer the OP: No, but my given FPs stay regardless of the following status of the cache.

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Favorites can never be 100% of all finds. We're picky in what we do but some caches are better than others without saying a cache is bad. No matter how many/few you do in a day/week there's always one or two that are (slightly) better and at least for us, those are the one we give FPs to. We still have 300+ do give so we don't feel we have to take back from archived caches. These days caches have to be really special and memorable to get a FP because as we see and find more we set higher standards.

I sometimes wonder why plain vanilla caches at no special location get FPs and we see this more and more. Maybe it's the influx of newbies finding their first caches who think that a micro in a log is really amazing. The first times we found caches like that we also found them to be special.

 

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9 hours ago, on4bam said:

 

I sometimes wonder why plain vanilla caches at no special location get FPs and we see this more and more. Maybe it's the influx of newbies finding their first caches who think that a micro in a log is really amazing. The first times we found caches like that we also found them to be special.

 

I would agree but that's not always the case, it may depend on what you mean by "plain vanilla". I've given FPs to fairly ordinary or mundane caches because of personal reasons of fond memories relating to the locality or journey.

Others may give a FP to a film pot which has been placed near an awesome view or significant historic site. Whatever. They are our points to be given as we see fit and you would agree that your reasons for awarding an FP may significantly differs those of others.

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5 hours ago, colleda said:

I would agree but that's not always the case, it may depend on what you mean by "plain vanilla"

 

 

Micro (filmcanister/pillbottle) tossed behind a tree covered with a few leafs at best.

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I leave any FPs on the caches I award them to.  To me, the award of a FP is like a little bit of virtual (valueless) currency rewarding the CO for my great experience with their cache, be it any combination of the container or the adventure to get to it, et - a thumbs up, or pat on the back, a "thank you".  I don't see the point of taking the FPs back, just as I would not take back a "thank you" for an enjoyable experience.  I only would if I ran out of FPs to give, and even then I'd be trying to take them from the caches I liked the least, irrespective of archive/active status... it would still be about which cache experiences were my favourite.  Luckily for me I have plenty of FPs available so I don't have that problem.

 

It seems apparent, and obvious without even needing to read a forum topic like this, that everyone's reasons for awarding FPs is different.  That is probably a good thing except that it's unfortunate that Groundspeak also have a view on what FPs mean - kind of unofficial, but they promote the use of them in order to seek out the best caches and often during souvenir promotions they promote finding caches with more favourite points.  They also at times have used favourite points in calculations to work out who the best or most worthy geocache hiders are.  Which is fine I suppose, except that this isn't really explained to everyone awarding the FPs in the first place.  Or it's not fine, and maybe Groundspeak should properly accept that everyone awards FPs for different reasons and that therefore no such comparisons between cache owners can or should be be drawn, but rather FPs remain a suggestion of a good cache and nothing more, nothing official.

 

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Posted (edited)

Sadly today I had to archive my oldest surviving hide, GC4X42A after I discovered it had been muggled. During its six and a half years it had accumulated 22 FPs from 307 finds and, being located near a motorway rest stop, it was also by far my most frequently found hide (not including any adopted caches). This was a plain vanilla cache in an interesting historical location.

 

GC4X42A.jpg.85ab643f96fa8c19b89d9600eff33a22.jpg

 

It won't bother me at all if any of those 22 FPs are taken back by their givers as I'm not one to dwell on statistics, but I do appreciate that they were given.

Edited by barefootjeff

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11 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Sadly today I had to archive my oldest surviving hide, GC4X42A after I discovered it had been muggled. During its six and a half years it had accumulated 22 FPs from 307 finds and, being located near a motorway rest stop, it was also by far my most frequently found hide (not including any adopted caches). This was a plain vanilla cache in an interesting historical location.

 

GC4X42A.jpg.85ab643f96fa8c19b89d9600eff33a22.jpg

 

It won't bother me at all if any of those 22 FPs are taken back by their givers as I'm not one to dwell on statistics, but I do appreciate that they were given.

 

That's a shame - that was an interesting spot with some history we would not have learnt about if it had not been for your cache (and my perhaps childish desire to find a cache in Mooney Mooney just because that place name has always made me lol)

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3 hours ago, on4bam said:
9 hours ago, colleda said:

I would agree but that's not always the case, it may depend on what you mean by "plain vanilla"

 

 

Micro (filmcanister/pillbottle) tossed behind a tree covered with a few leafs at best.

What you describe can - depending on what's near this tree or how I was about to reach this tree - be one of the greatest caches. Certainly it can also be plain vanilla, mundane or even worse.

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One of the reasons I leave favorite points on caches is because a lot of challenges are created with caches with the highest number of favorite points.

 

If you log these "high pointers" you can use it for the challenge, even later when the cache is archived.

 

A high pointer can lose some points and be fine, but if everyone takes away their favorite point, it's going to change the availability of the challenge.

 

Some will care about this, some won't. (most likely those who like challenges vs those who don't). 

 

It's not an issue for me, as I have plenty of fav points available.

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1 hour ago, Hynz said:

What you describe can - depending on what's near this tree or how I was about to reach this tree - be one of the greatest caches. Certainly it can also be plain vanilla, mundane or even worse.

 

I thought it as clear I meant micro tossed behind a tree just because they can and no other reason at all.  We've had a few of them nearby (few 100m), one was "hidden" behind a traffic sign which I could see from the car when on the main road (it was a few meters in a side street). The same CO had one on the other side of that street, again behind the traffic sign and that too could be seen from a distance and more importantly, by customers and staff of the barbershop on the other side of the street.

They both came to their end when they disappeared and no maintenance was done for months. One of these had FP's, go figure.

I got the notification when they were published and could easily got FTF on both as I could get there in 2 minutes but never went to log them. No interest at all.

 

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On 7/20/2020 at 6:22 PM, HoochDog said:


Everyone can do what they want with their fav points but... “for me”... this is the WRONG reason to give out fav points. I give out fav points to caches because... they are my favorites. 

 

THIS. Not crazy. I award favorites because they were my favorite. Not because I need to feel a phony sense of virtuousness for making someone else feel good by awarding an unearned favorite.

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On 6/27/2020 at 3:50 PM, niraD said:
On 6/27/2020 at 2:45 PM, TmdAndGG said:

Imagine if you owned 10 absolutely amazing gadget caches that you have spent hundreds of dollars on. People give you tons of favs, and you end up with a total count of 1,000 favs combined. Then someone goes around and breaks every single one of them. You decide they are un-reparable and you archive them. Would you not care if every single person removes their fav points so you go back down to a total of 0?

I wouldn't care a bit.

 

Quote

Might as well have just put out 10 cheap pill bottles in guardrails...

Not at all. The gadget caches would still be part of my history, and a part of the history of everyone who found them.

 

Many would care.  And it's history.  A landmark achievement in sports is not canceled when a player retires.  And yes, there is always a new "employee of the month," but the one for, say, June, 2020 cannot change.

 

I have given FPs to caches that impressed me a lot at the time but might impress me a little less now.  Would I rewrite history and take away the FPs?  Never, whether the cache is archived or not.

 

You get an FP to award for every 10 caches you find.  You award them, saying in effect, "Your hide is in the top 10% of caches I have found."  

 

Historical facts, done and dusted.  

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Imagine how different this game would be if once you award a favorite point it's permanent. 😁

 

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18 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Imagine how different this game would be if once you award a favorite point it's permanent. 😁

 

 

I can imagine the abuse that would occur.

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30 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:
19 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Imagine how different this game would be if once you award a favorite point it's permanent. 😁

 

 

I can imagine the abuse that would occur.

That's it? 

Here's my contribution to the short list:

I can imagine how much more thought people would give into making sure that it's actually one of their favorites before giving a Fav Point.

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32 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:
19 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Imagine how different this game would be if once you award a favorite point it's permanent. 😁

 

 

I can imagine the abuse that would occur.

 

Sorry, but I'm struggling to imagine how such abuse would work. Are you suggesting people would intentionally hide wonderful caches at wonderful locations to get lots of FPs then swap them for roadside pill bottles under bushes? Really? Or is there something else I'm not imagining?

 

All the FPs I've ever given are still on the caches I gave them to and I haven't seen any evidence of that being abused.

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Hmm...  I don't give out Favorite Points that often.  Only when the cache is one of my favorites!  I still have 27% saved up.  I've never felt the need to grab back a favorite point so I'll have more to give out.  I just checked out my 'favorites assigned' list, and I don't remember them all.  But they were my favorites when assigned.  Why would I want to remove any?  I still have lots to assign.

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4 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

I can imagine the abuse that would occur.

 

Wow...

 

3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Sorry, but I'm struggling to imagine how such abuse would work. Are you suggesting people would intentionally hide wonderful caches at wonderful locations to get lots of FPs then swap them for roadside pill bottles under bushes? Really? Or is there something else I'm not imagining?

 

All the FPs I've ever given are still on the caches I gave them to and I haven't seen any evidence of that being abused.

 

Maybe it's because then folks will place n go after lame 1.5 pieces of carp just for Favorite Point  "points", but we have that now.   :laughing:

All the caches we favorited still have theirs as well.  When we did them, they were our favorites. 

Many were FTF, so we were the only ones who found them as the CO intended.   I don't care what they might be like later...

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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before... but some COs are partial to BadgeGen... and there are two badges relating to FPs (Favorited Owner and Favorite Cacher)... so they could be miffed if they had to archive a cache (for whatever reason) and then FPs start to be retracted which impacts their FO BadgeGen, or caches they have found with FPs start to lose their FPs. Project-gc premium members get notifications when FPs are added *and removed* from their caches, so it doesn't go unnoticed! Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

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1 hour ago, Boomshanka said:

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before... but some COs are partial to BadgeGen... and there are two badges relating to FPs (Favorited Owner and Favorite Cacher)... so they could be miffed if they had to archive a cache (for whatever reason) and then FPs start to be retracted which impacts their FO BadgeGen, or caches they have found with FPs start to lose their FPs. Project-gc premium members get notifications when FPs are added *and removed* from their caches, so it doesn't go unnoticed! Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

It has been mentioned before in the forums. I totally understand what you are saying! On the other hand, is it fair to expect others to adjust how they play the game so that someone else can play the game how  they want to? I have no interest in Project GC stats or BadgeGen. Those who do need to consider that not everyone cares about such things. They will need to adjust their goals accordingly. ;)

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In other words, be wary of goals that rely on the behavior of other geocachers (such as removing Favorite Points).

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4 hours ago, Boomshanka said:

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before... but some COs are partial to BadgeGen... and there are two badges relating to FPs (Favorited Owner and Favorite Cacher)... so they could be miffed if they had to archive a cache (for whatever reason) and then FPs start to be retracted which impacts their FO BadgeGen, or caches they have found with FPs start to lose their FPs. Project-gc premium members get notifications when FPs are added *and removed* from their caches, so it doesn't go unnoticed! Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

 

I'm one of many we know that don't care about "stats".  I've had "Do not share my personal information ..."   since it was a thing.  :)

I don't feel my actions with this hobby have anything to do with someone else's  "rankings"  on a third-party site.

We don't currently remove FPs on caches I placed one on, archived or not.  If I was to get mail from COs about it though, that might change.

We used to get mail from certain COs asking why we didn't place one, when we said such nice things about one of their caches.

Apparently that nice log wasn't good enough...

When none of their caches received one afterwards,  word gets out, and folks quickly  learn to knock it off.

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On 7/20/2020 at 6:48 PM, cerberus1 said:

 

You said you'd remove a FP from an archived cache,  and "give it to another one more deserving".

I simply trying to figure out how one cache is "more deserving" than another, when you did place a FP on the one archived earlier

So you feel that any cache is "more deserving" than the one you favorited earlier simply because the "newer" one's still in play ?

You're right, I don't understand that thinking...

 

You didn't answer my question. And yes, when a cache is archived...I will give the favorite point to another cache that is deserving. 

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On 7/20/2020 at 7:22 PM, HoochDog said:

Everyone can do what they want with their fav points but... “for me”... this is the WRONG reason to give out fav points. I give out fav points to caches because... they are my favorites

 

Yup. Children's caches are my favorites. 

 

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On 7/21/2020 at 12:23 AM, colleda said:

I don't know if other COs are like me but I have no idea whether or not any FPs have been removed from any of my caches, current or archived. If there have been, it would not bother me one iota. My archived caches are history and I never dwell on them in any way. I concentrate on making my current caches enjoyable and if someone gives one a fav point that makes me pleased that they appreciated my cache - whatever the reason. It's the finder's FP and theirs to do whatever they like with.

 

I agree. I also don't keep track of deleted favorite points on my caches. lol

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On 7/23/2020 at 1:39 AM, barefootjeff said:

It won't bother me at all if any of those 22 FPs are taken back by their givers as I'm not one to dwell on statistics, but I do appreciate that they were given.

 

I'm so sorry your cache was muggled. 

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On 8/2/2020 at 11:54 PM, Max and 99 said:

Imagine how different this game would be if once you award a favorite point it's permanent. 😁

 

 

Imagine how different this game would be if Ground speak didn't have the favorite point feature. 

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On 8/3/2020 at 7:31 PM, TmdAndGG said:

 

 

That's it? 

Here's my contribution to the short list:

I can imagine how much more thought people would give into making sure that it's actually one of their favorites before giving a Fav Point.

 

Good point. 

 

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On 8/3/2020 at 8:04 PM, Harry Dolphin said:

I've never felt the need to grab back a favorite point so I'll have more to give out

 

I have. But only on archived caches. 

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On 8/5/2020 at 6:40 PM, Boomshanka said:

Project-gc premium members get notifications when FPs are added *and removed* from their caches

 

Premium members get a notification when favorites are removed from their archived caches?

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Premium members get a notification when favorites are removed from their archived caches?

I've seen this advertised on the homepage as a perk.

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Just now, Max and 99 said:

I've seen this advertised on the homepage as a perk.

 

I think once it's been archived...why notified the CO? And if they are notified, the CO should understand the reasoning why. 

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12 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

I think once it's been archived...why notified the CO? And if they are notified, the CO should understand the reasoning why. 

I have no idea. I'm not a project GC user except on very rare occasions. 

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3 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Imagine how different this game would be if Ground speak didn't have the favorite point feature. 

Easy to do.  I cached for years before GC added this feature.

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3 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Imagine how different this game would be if Ground speak didn't have the favorite point feature. 

The good old days.

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