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ras_oscar

Basecamp questions

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I import my GPX file into basecamp. The symbol titles on the map are the GC code followed by the name. To tidy things up Id like to limit it to the GC code only. If i right click on properties I can change one, but I see no option to change all waypoints in the database. Is there an option I am missing or is there another option on the import? I have GSAK if the GPX file needs to be altered.

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So.... don't import your GPX file into basecamp. Just save it directly to your GPS (or sd card). Basecamp messes with the formatting and it's just an extra ugly step to deal with.
If you have GSAK, you can go that route. It's much better for cache management. Use Basecamp to manage your personal waypoints, routes, and tracks. But not geocaches.

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Is there any alternatives for basecamp? As garmin have stopped updating basecamp and moved to explore app.

 

that new explore software is no more compatible with older models like gpsmap64s 

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3 hours ago, ras_oscar said:

I import my GPX file into basecamp. The symbol titles on the map are the GC code followed by the name. To tidy things up Id like to limit it to the GC code only. If i right click on properties I can change one, but I see no option to change all waypoints in the database. Is there an option I am missing or is there another option on the import? I have GSAK if the GPX file needs to be altered.

 

Yes, there is an option (CTRL+TAB) you are not aware of that will swap the map and data windows, allowing you to then select multiple data items for bulk editing..

 

Reference: GPSrChive > BaseCamp > Data Management > Viewing Data

 

Tip: Once you reconfigure window sizes as desired for each view, switching between them again BaseCamp will remember your preferences.

 

 

 

Edited by Atlas Cached

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3 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

So.... don't import your GPX file into basecamp. Just save it directly to your GPS (or sd card). Basecamp messes with the formatting and it's just an extra ugly step to deal with.
If you have GSAK, you can go that route. It's much better for cache management. Use Basecamp to manage your personal waypoints, routes, and tracks. But not geocaches.

I do both. I drop the GPX file into the GPS data card and I import it into basecamp. GPS to go find stuff and basecamp to view the wider map and plan trips.

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On 2/3/2020 at 11:47 AM, Atlas Cached said:

 

Yes, there is an option (CTRL+TAB) you are not aware of that will swap the map and data windows, allowing you to then select multiple data items for bulk editing..

 

Reference: GPSrChive > BaseCamp > Data Management > Viewing Data

 

Tip: Once you reconfigure window sizes as desired for each view, switching between them again BaseCamp will remember your preferences.

 

 

 

The problem is not multi select. That I can do from either window. The problem s editing how the cache is displayed on the map. Try this:

 

Open basecamp

zoom on a single cache

double click to bring up cache properties 

In the upper right corner is a pull down menu. The options are "Symbol", "Symbol and Name", "Symbol and Code". I can change one from "Symbol and Name" to "Symbol and code". Id like to make that change wholesale to the entire database.

 

Does basecamp support Macros?

Edited by ras_oscar

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Well, apparently the same functionality that exists to edit multiple waypoints simultaneously does not apply to geocaches.

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Basecamp and geocaching just don't play well together. You can use the map feature in GSAK to plan and get better results.

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i've seen individual caches mapped in GSAK, wasn't aware there was also an option to display the entire database? 

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I toss entire PQs (or more specifically, my own 'rectangles') into GSAK, and export them with a %drop 2 of the GC code, and view the whole thing in Mapsource for route planning.  Still can't find a better (or even as good) solution with Basecamp.  Am able to take my planned route list of waypoints in Mapsource, highlight and select all of the GC codes in that Mapsource list, and copy them to an Excel spreadsheet to annotate and print for the actual cache run. 

 

For me, GSAK is what allows the subsequent map view with just GC codes (without the "GC") during export of the *.gdb.  Of course, it provides all kinds of pre-processing as well.  My macro goes out and grabs all of the unfound caches for both me and my caching buddy, does comparisons the result in "I need", "He needs", and "We need", excludes my list of 'problem' caches that I know won't be worth a visit, throws in all of my solved puzzles at the corrected coordinates, creates the POI files for my TomTom GPS and a bunch of other stuff.  The resulting *.gdb file sent to Mapsource shows just what I need to know to plan a cache run.

 

 

 

Edited by ecanderson

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soooo... I plan to use base camp to do the following:

 

1.  view the same maps as on my GPS

2. view the same caches as the GPX file on my GPS.

 

This allows me to plan trips offline, and for instance identify the parking location closest to the trailhead. 

 

I use Basecamp to complete these tasks. Unfortunately, the cache  titles are so large they obscure the underlying map and make achieving these objectives very difficult. The only other option I am aware of is  to do the planning online from Groundspeak, at the cost of clogging up Groundspeak bandwidth to view information I quite frankly have already downloaded

 

Is there a better tool to acheive these goals?

 

FYI I have also used an oooold version of MS streets. Unfortunately, that product does not show trails, so the planning facility is somewhat limited.

Edited by ras_oscar

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Either Basecamp or the old Mapsource will give you the tools to accomplish what you wish.  However, your choice of maps may be important.  The map you select for your GPS needn't be the same one you use to plan your runs.  I find that a topo is more useful on the GPS, while OSM routeable of the same area is usually of more use on the computer.  Of course, you can load both types of maps in both places, and bounce back and forth as needed, too. 

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I use OSM maps for virtually everything I do. I have recently returned to the game after a hiatus of several years. In my previous career I used mapsource. Basecamp was just coming out at that time so I *assumed* i should move to the newer product. I have recently seen traffic suggesting that basecamp development has been discontinued. Both are available for download today. I will ask this plainly:

 

Should I use

 

1.  Basecamp

2.  Mapsource ( Which I am very familiar with)

3.  Something else that's free

 

I have no interest in sharing my activities online. I moved to Basecamp primarily because the 2 programs are extremely similar and I assumed the newer product was continuing in development.

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I find that google maps or google earth are better for finding parking areas as you can scope out the area in full satellite detail. Both will also let you import your geocaching GPX files to view caches.

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Google maps seldom has the trail detail that is important to me If I'm in an area and there are tails not on my GPS map I can easily create them in OSM and update my map tiles once the adjustment comes back up to my consolidator. Yes, I have in the past used the google maps on Groundspeak to do what I want when all else fails. Looking for an offline solution.

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4 hours ago, ras_oscar said:

I use OSM maps for virtually everything I do. I have recently returned to the game after a hiatus of several years. In my previous career I used mapsource. Basecamp was just coming out at that time so I *assumed* i should move to the newer product. I have recently seen traffic suggesting that basecamp development has been discontinued. Both are available for download today. I will ask this plainly:

 

Should I use

 

1.  Basecamp

2.  Mapsource ( Which I am very familiar with)

3.  Something else that's free

 

I have no interest in sharing my activities online. I moved to Basecamp primarily because the 2 programs are extremely similar and I assumed the newer product was continuing in development.

Either 1 or 2, but I find that 2 operates far more quickly and without the fluff.  Don't know if you knew it, but with Mapsource, once you have a route prepared, you can go in and highlight the list with the mouse, and copy/paste all of the caches into a spreadsheet or Word file or whatever, so that you've got a handy reference of the order of things.  I use them to create lists like this for our runs.  The left column is what got pasted in from Mapsource.

 

 

 

 

XLS.jpg

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Installed mapsource, it automatically recognized all the maps I had installed in basecamp and brought them up. Opened each GPX file I had previously downloaded and saved in a mapsource backup file for future use. Who would have thought the solution to my issues was to go backwards :)

Edited by ras_oscar

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@Mineral2 @ras_oscar

 

sometimes hopping between applications is confusing, have you simply tried doing the following:

 

1) run a pocket querry / create a manual list from this website

2) import the .gpx file from the above into basecamp, under specific local list

3) **most important** use the free preview of birdseye to download the area around geoaches in 2 above to basecamp.  this gives you full view except that you can't save the file locally or send to your device if you don't have a subscription

4) map out whatever you need with the help of the gps view from above to the list, parking lots, walking route, whatever.

5) send the whole list to gps

 

 

i have been reading many posts people complaining that birdseye is stuck 10 years behind google, and in some areas i'm sure it's true.  i'm finding it to be 90% there in the woods/areas that i look at.  it seems that for a lot of my wooded areas birdseye tops out at 80ft resolution vs. google will go down to about 36ft, i think i can live with that as even at 80ft i'm able to see any trails, formations, etc. that i need.  if it's very heavy tree cover i won't see anything whether it's at 36ft, 80 or 200ft.

 

i use the above method to try to limit myself from hopping around different applications.  the really bad thing is that you can't see a global satelite view in basecamp, but if your workflow is to scope out a specific area/park/nature reserve the above should work just fine.

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I don't do that, but then, my method of planning relies less on ground truthing and more of just going out and exploring. Rather than hit up specific geocaches, I keep an updated set of PQ's/iCaching database that puts all geocaches (except unsolved mystery caches) on my device. Then I pick a place to go and if there are geocaches in the area, I'll find them.

Generally speaking, the trails on the Groundspeak map are good enough. I'm also fortunate enough to live in the northwest where detailed trail maps are available for the Garmin, thanks to @Moun10Bike. So in addition to using the Groundspeak map, I can also look for trails with geocaches on my GPS.

Since switching to an Oregon 600, I've been keeping a larger number of caches on the device in the GGZ format, which Basecamp doesn't read. So I use Basecamp exclusively for managing personal waypoints and tracks and occasional routing.  I use iCaching to manage my geocaches. And I plan hikes with a number of different resources. Most geocaches on hikes are located near geographic landmarks making it easy to find the general location on google maps, google earth, other mapping software, and even paper maps if I need additional trail research. Usually if there's a geocache placed, there's an established route. Most of the time, I'm happy just figuring out where the trailhead is and getting a general feel for the difficulty of the trip - length and elevation gain. The rest I'll discover as I go along. I usually don't even pre-route it ahead of time, simply using the maps as a guide to know what trails to turn onto. I prefer the adventure of the unknown. The main reason I want to know the trailhead location is so that I can navigate the maze of forest service/logging roads to get there.

Edited by Mineral2

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I'd like to thin down my caching applications to only one. Right now I'm using the following:

 

Base camp for the ability to bring up all cache information offline

Mapsource for the ability to pan and zoom through an uncluttered map view ( GC code only)

GSAK for the ability to export to other platforms

Microsoft streets and trips (19(! version) because its easy to create routes for extensive (out of state) runs

 

The challenge is each application hides the source dat\a they're loading from. I have a single GPX file they are all updated from whenI run a fresh list once a month. In a perfect world, I could use GSAK to remove caches from the GPX as I find them and each application would auto update. However, somehow each application instead loads their own copy and I have to manually delete multiple places. Should I just bite the bullet and reload each time I open each application or is there a way to have them all share a common GPX file?

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+1

  

3 minutes ago, HHL said:

No, that's not necessary. Use GSAK for all of your desired actions.  There is no need for the use of BaseCamp or MapSource. GSAK's map facilities are even better with  a variety of dozent different map sources and overlays and  a way to import and map  own waypoint or track gpx files. GSAK is also pretty smart when it comes to route planning.

 

Hans

 

There is a reason it's called the Geocaching Swiss Army Knife

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1 hour ago, HHL said:

GSAK is also pretty smart when it comes to route planning.

Have been using it for 11 years, and never noticed that.  How do you display a map of a database within GSAK so as to do routing with GSAK?

 

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2 hours ago, HHL said:

No, that's not necessary. Use GSAK for all of your desired actions.  There is no need for the use of BaseCamp or MapSource. GSAK's map facilities are even better with  a variety of dozent different map sources and overlays and  a way to import and map  own waypoint or track gpx files. GSAK is also pretty smart when it comes to route planning.

 

Hans

I've been using GSAK for …. er…. more years than I care to share. I have never seen an option to plot more than the currently selected cache on the map window. What am I missing?

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58 minutes ago, ecanderson said:

Have been using it for 11 years, and never noticed that.  How do you display a map of a database within GSAK so as to do routing with GSAK?

 

 

If you mean "how do you show a bunch of selected caches (such as a whole database) on one map", I wondered that, too.  Here's a thread with ideas:

https://gsak.net/board/index.php?showtopic=34397&st=0&#entry260532

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42 minutes ago, HHL said:

I've been talking about route planning. - Not on routing itself. ;)

As was I.  I'll have a look at your 'macro' post.

The macro index is huge -- if you have any in particular you believe would be helpful, would like to hear about them.

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Posted (edited)

"Route" only brings up "Google Routes" as a useful choice, but I'll have a look at that.

 

Edited by ecanderson

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Naw, for a major day of caching, I think I'll stick with MapSource (or Basecamp) and OSM.

 

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If you want to see all the caches in a DB on a map use the LeafletMap macro Hans linked to, if you want to route from cache to cache filter on the closest 100 caches and use this macro. Routing from cache to cache has a 100 cache limit, I'm not sure if the LeafletMap macro has a limit but it just displayed 11865 caches in my current DB just fine.  this 

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Posted (edited)

Yes, HHL, I see that.  It brings up a map with caches on it.  I don't see any other functionality, though.  More the the point, it requires the use of at least some other app in any case, even with the addition of a routing macro (a browser, at a minimum).

 

With the Garmin tools, Mapsource in particular, I am able to do my own point to point routing in OSM, making sure I've caught everything I want to include, and can then take the resulting route list, copy and paste the GC codes into an Excel spreadsheet and add all of my notes regarding navigation, hints, tools and whatever else might be helpful to finding the cache.

It's a bit beyond anything GSAK would be able to do, but that's OK.

Edited by ecanderson

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Excel has an entirely different purpose, and cannot be 'forgotten', and is only used because it is 'tidier' than using Word or something else for the notes.  Too much information collected and added from all sources.  It's our worksheet for the day that includes all special information for each cache, including updated coordinates suggested by other finders (easier than sorting through old logs again), parking location decisions (often different/better than suggested by the CO), information from our prior visits, reminders to bring a particular TOTT that we think we might need, etc.  The advantage with Mapsource is that after creating the route, I can copy and paste the entire sequenced list of GC codes into the daily worksheet to get it started.

 

We don't use a map (we don't print the *.gdb, for example) since it is never as precise as what is already recorded in the Excel sheet and already exported from GSAK to the automotive GPS units for the driving part of the adventure.  For any given run, we have two databases ... one for the GPSr and one for the vehicle.  The GPSr is, of course, the cache location.  The automotive export represents the decisions I have made about where to put the vehicle.  As such, an actual map is rarely of any benefit to us in the field.

 

Still, I will work some more with the GSAK option to see whether it is workable as an alternative.  But whether I am using a browser or Mapsource for the waypoint sequencing doesn't really seem to matter as, if your method works, it is accomplishing most of the same task.

 

Here's an example of one of our sheets for a day's work:

 

 

 

 

 

2nd Feb Run.jpg

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1 hour ago, ecanderson said:

Excel has an entirely different purpose, and cannot be 'forgotten', and is only used because it is 'tidier' than using Word or something else for the notes.  Too much information collected and added from all sources.  It's our worksheet for the day that includes all special information for each cache, including updated coordinates suggested by other finders (easier than sorting through old logs again), parking location decisions (often different/better than suggested by the CO), information from our prior visits, reminders to bring a particular TOTT that we think we might need, etc.  The advantage with Mapsource is that after creating the route, I can copy and paste the entire sequenced list of GC codes into the daily worksheet to get it started.

 

We don't use a map (we don't print the *.gdb, for example) since it is never as precise as what is already recorded in the Excel sheet and already exported from GSAK to the automotive GPS units for the driving part of the adventure.  For any given run, we have two databases ... one for the GPSr and one for the vehicle.  The GPSr is, of course, the cache location.  The automotive export represents the decisions I have made about where to put the vehicle.  As such, an actual map is rarely of any benefit to us in the field.

 

Still, I will work some more with the GSAK option to see whether it is workable as an alternative.  But whether I am using a browser or Mapsource for the waypoint sequencing doesn't really seem to matter as, if your method works, it is accomplishing most of the same task.

 

Here's an example of one of our sheets for a day's work:

 

I have nothing against Excel, I still export some GSAK work to Excel, but since all my notes go into a DB field for export to the GPSr I just print them from GSAK. Yes I can make it nicer in Excel but what GSAK prints is good enough for my needs.

 

 

Clipboard02.jpg

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You both have excellent systems for cache database management, and of course the best system for anyone is the system they understand!

 

Having said that, I would also add that being able to do 'everything' within one single application, for me, is a benefit I would not want to give up!

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as a non-Windows user, GSAK is out (I'm not interested in trying to get it to work with WINE tools or other emulators). But iCaching has great mapping capabilities. But it does lack routing. But for the most part, I'm not planning geocaching outings with routable directions or even trying to figure out the most efficient route - I'll let the GPS get me there, and I'll decide when I'm out and about what route to take and where I want to explore. It's often more about the exploring for me.

Doing everything in a single application is really where phones come in handy. Because even if you can't do it all in one app, it's likely that several apps will pass data back and forth with each other giving you seamless integration between geocaching and navigation along roads and trails. And yeah, you might have to download a list of caches for offline use ahead of time, but you're doing that with a GPS anyway.

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On 3/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, HHL said:

I mentioned the macro LeafletMap in the post just before yours. :rolleyes: Haven't you read that? I do all my route/tour planning with the help of this macro. (And with the help of some minor macros for creating track files, cruise lists for downloading around different places in one go and for getting caches along that route, etc. pp).

 

Hans

Ok, that looks like a good option. I'll check it out.  Of course, you realize your punishment for answering a question i s another question :) 

 

In the past (before Oregon 700) I used GSAK to log caches in bulk. Bring up the caches, enter log text and upload to Groundspeak. These days I do that in the field with a text file on the GPS and let WIFI upload it when I return home. Is there way to use that same GPS text file to update GSAK status as well? I know I can always update my list from Groundspeak and reload the database., bit that's a huge waste of Groundspeak bandwidth to reload 996 caches just to update the status of 4.

 

Another point of information: I've noticed recently that several internet resources ( Groundspeak, GSAK) are moving away from Google maps. Is there a reason for that shift? Has Google changed their TOU in some way that made them less desirable, or are there simply more options than before?

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Google changed its pricing structure making maps for high usage customers more expensive. It's still available for premium users.

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13 hours ago, ras_oscar said:

several internet resources ( Groundspeak, GSAK) are moving away from Google maps

 

Pricing, yeah. But tiles in quantity cost money from pretty much any source. Remember MapQuest OSM? The last great free one, I think.

 

OSM beats Google for trails, easily. That may explain why Groundspeak steers people toward their own map, which is OSM.  And served up either in-house, or from a competitive provider; can't tell.

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On 3/5/2020 at 12:05 PM, 31BMSG said:

I have nothing against Excel, I still export some GSAK work to Excel, but since all my notes go into a DB field for export to the GPSr I just print them from GSAK. Yes I can make it nicer in Excel but what GSAK prints is good enough for my needs.

 

 

Clipboard02.jpg

Can you order these in the sequence in which you wish to visit them?

 

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3 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Can you order these in the sequence in which you wish to visit them?

No, not that list shown above done by a macro. (that list has to be enhanced by the usersort data field and sorted by that)

But this list will sort acccordingly. Done by GSAK's core print command:

 

9b1614401ce1118cba5b16724251a58d.png

 

Hans

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Backside of the list:

 

d56d081c7af8dd784dd8bc22df332fb0.png

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Posted (edited)

I also save the above mentioned list (with fewer columns) to a Dropbox folder. That way I always have my list handy when on tour. And as GSAK creates the GCcode as a link I'm always ready to check the next cache.

 

Screenshot_20200307-110715.thumb.png.f2d5649cc34a558398c2ce81a84b995d.png

Edited by HHL

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6 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Can you order these in the sequence in which you wish to visit them?

 

As Hans said it's a macro that prints in the order the database is sorted, If I sort the usersort field ascending it will print in the order of planned visits. If I need to print something in addition to user notes I'll print from a custom database view. Sometimes when ordering a route that covers 1000+ miles I'll miss adding a cache to the usersort field. Rather than starting over I'll export to Excel, add a number with a decimal to the affected cache(s), then resort and print from Excel. It's personal preference on what you use to print or view the information you require, but since all my cache data is already in GSAK I tend to use it the most.

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Posted (edited)

Got the leaflet map macro installed and running. Quite impressive. Particularly the ability to flip between map and satellite view without loosing my zoom. I did notice on the GSAK forum some screen shots showing a much large list of map options. Not that i'm ungrateful or anything, but is there a way to use my the other maps from Mapsource/Basecamp in the macro?  They seem to show the trails better.

Edited by ras_oscar

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On 3/4/2020 at 9:57 AM, ras_oscar said:

 

Base camp for the ability to bring up all cache information offline

Mapsource for the ability to pan and zoom through an uncluttered map view ( GC code only)

GSAK for the ability to export to other platforms

Microsoft streets and trips (19(! version) because its easy to create routes for extensive (out of state) runs

 

The challenge is each application hides the source dat\a they're loading from. I have a single GPX file they are all updated from whenI run a fresh list once a month. In a perfect world, I could use GSAK to remove caches from the GPX as I find them and each application 


GPX isn't a great database. GPX is a good way to transfer data between programs. (It's literally the "exchange" in "X")  I always found the happier place letting the PQ be the source of truth, augmented by local files that I controlled.

I'd receive a couple of GPX files, use GPSBabel to merge them together, do my own ignore list, merge POIs for things I cared about (location of friends/family, etc.) and that did corrected coords and ignores (I implemented both in GPSBabel before that was a thing on the site) and let it create new versions of anything I wanted to toss into other programs so I could start fresh in each one of them each time. I had one monster invocation in a script, but importantly, I had one source of truth. I wasn't shy about building multiple versions of files for the programs you mentioned, each customized for a different view.

My tools have decayed over time and as geocache density increased and it became easier to load up two GPSes (one on the dash, one on my belt) and not worry about taping up 3x2 page maps and taping them together and reading all the pages the night before and such, my planning got simpler, but I once used all the programs you mentioned - and more - for a simple trip.  Starting my caching as a Linux dev but being on Team Mac for many years, I found happiness in using no software other than GPSBabel but I probably have above average proficiency scripting it. The GUI is definitely not going to give the customization that a tool dedicated caching tool will.

Also, the comments noting that other programs are years behind Google's imagery and POI database but that Google charges too much are invited to see the irony in that. :-) Those Streetview cars and ground truth planes have to get paid for. Good routing data isn't cheap, and the best commercial routing maps usually aren't OSM with a sprinkling of paint on them, though OSM routing has made big strides in recent years. Trails (for hikers and cyclists) have definitely benefited from those users being early collectors of that data and OSM being the early sharing grounds for that. There's no shame in using multiple sources.



 

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Posted (edited)

At present here's how I plan my caching runs:

 

1. I have a list of the 1000 caches nearest my preferred caching areas on my GPS, in Mapsource, Basecamp, and GSAK.

2. Update GSAK data from the last run

3.  Use Mapsource or GSAK leaflet macro or Groundspeak map list function to bring up caches in a particular area shown on a map.

4. Select a group of caches i'd like to attempt

5. On a 3x5 card i note the first cache in the group (for hiking runs the cache nearest the trailhead or parking area) how many are in the group and a word or 2 describing where in general the group is (for instance "North of Cacheville NM).

 

Once i have worked through the group I cross it out. At any particular time i have 6-7 future caching runs carded up. In the morning I wake up, have  coffee, go over my lists and select a group. This works because all information on each cache (size, cords, previous logs, hint, description) live on my GPS.

 

Would be interested in hearing how other cachers plan their future runs.

Edited by ras_oscar

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