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spacemule

log sheet etiquette

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I'd say a telescopic ladder absolutely is a TOTT! At least around here there are so many tree caches that having one is almost essential, depending on your climbing ability. Now, for most tree climbs it is optional and not a requirement, but some are placed with a ladder, rated 5D with the attribute, and a ladder is essential = )  Mine goes with me everywhere, just in case (much like other various tools we take all over the place with us =P)

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4 hours ago, The Jester said:

Then you really can't complain when a TOTT is needed.  I finally bought a log roller after having many a "fun" time rolling small logs, I don't need it real often, but I makes life nicer when I do.

 

BTW, I hope you also carry a pen/pencil for signing... or can you find those in bush also? :D

 

Naturally I carry several pens. Although, charcoal is commonly available in the bush.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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4 hours ago, dprovan said:

Not everyone in my area has one in the trunk, but there are several...

And that's presuming it's a drive-by and people have arrived in a car. Many caches require walking to, and most people don't want to carry a ladder. Although we did (or actually my caching companion) to a cache recently, but that was only a short one kilometre walk. I would hate to need to carry a ladder for several kilometres.

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36 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

And that's presuming it's a drive-by and people have arrived in a car. Many caches require walking to, and most people don't want to carry a ladder. Although we did (or actually my caching companion) to a cache recently, but that was only a short one kilometre walk. I would hate to need to carry a ladder for several kilometres.

 

This was with it strapped to my backpack on a 5km hike each way through somewhat hilly terrain. Not too bad although the ladder felt a lot heavier coming back than it did going out and not helped by me taking a wrong turn at one point.

 

DSC_0313_small.jpg.74aa3737181cb86953b947b8256cc1a7.jpg

 

Edit to add: When I got to the cache, I discovered I didn't have a pen as it wasn't my regular caching backpack, so I improvised with the end of a twig. It wasn't a nano, though, so I didn't need a log-roller TOTT.

Edited by barefootjeff
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On 11/22/2019 at 1:05 PM, The Jester said:

Then you really can't complain when a TOTT is needed.  I finally bought a log roller after having many a "fun" time rolling small logs, I don't need it real often, but I makes life nicer when I do.

 

BTW, I hope you also carry a pen/pencil for signing... or can you find those in bush also? :D

 

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 12:50 AM, Goldenwattle said:

I don't look for swag either, although I do drop off trinkets, anything from mundane (to me) to really good stuff.

What bigger caches allow for is for TBs to fit. Caches bigger than nanos and micros also allow for bigger logs that don't fill up as quickly as for micros and nanos. As barefootjeff writes bigger logs can last for many years.  They also allow those who want to write something space to do this.

So many micro and especially nano caches I come upon have full logs because they fill up so quickly. Many people who place them are not prepared for, or aware of the amount of visits they require to keep them in good order with logs with plenty of space to write on. The signatures are also harder to read, get written over more and don't last as well on some types of micro paper.  Generally inferior caches and logs. My first cache I placed was a nano. Because I was so inexperienced I didn't know how boring it was. It has been archived. It isn't always possible, but when placing a cache I will place a small cache or better if at all possible.

I recently purchased a nano container but haven't hidden it yet. I don't know what I was expecting, but it looks like there is only room for maybe four logs? Or am I looking it wrong?

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35 minutes ago, JeanWin said:

I recently purchased a nano container but haven't hidden it yet. I don't know what I was expecting, but it looks like there is only room for maybe four logs? Or am I looking it wrong?

 

You may be looking at it lengthwise, instead of sideways, like most micro strips are today.   :)

We have noticed that some sites sell replacement sheets that have spaces lengthwise, but I feel that makes maintenance a pain-in-the-can.

 - It's already the most-maintained container type simply by size...

Very tiny logs,  room for initials maybe, and that's all.   Most we've seen were 1/4" x 10 or 11", and held around 30 names.

 

Edited by cerberus1

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3 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Most we've seen were 1/4" x 10 or 11", and held around 30 names.

The nano log strips sold by Groundspeak are 9/32" x 14". They have numbered spaces for 35 entries (18 on each side, with one taken up by the logo, URL, and instructions). That leaves a space about 1/4" by 3/4" for each finder to "sign and date". I can usually write "niraD" and the date (in YYYY-MM-DD format) in one of those spaces though.

 

nano_logs_500_2.jpg

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3 hours ago, JeanWin said:

I recently purchased a nano container but haven't hidden it yet. I don't know what I was expecting, but it looks like there is only room for maybe four logs? Or am I looking it wrong?

All nano logs I have seen have room for more signatures than that, and many people will only use their initials (GW in my case), but there will be less room and the cache will need more log replacements than a bigger log in the same position. Also, when checking the log and comparing signatures with the on-line logs, the signatures will be harder to read.

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3 hours ago, JeanWin said:

I recently purchased a nano container but haven't hidden it yet. I don't know what I was expecting, but it looks like there is only room for maybe four logs? Or am I looking it wrong?

Can I see a pic?

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7 hours ago, niraD said:

The nano log strips sold by Groundspeak are 9/32" x 14". They have numbered spaces for 35 entries (18 on each side, with one taken up by the logo, URL, and instructions). That leaves a space about 1/4" by 3/4" for each finder to "sign and date". I can usually write "niraD" and the date (in YYYY-MM-DD format) in one of those spaces though.

 

I use a Zebra F-301 pen with a fine point, with it I'm able to write three legible lines:  either 'date/time/The Jester' or 'date/The Jester/Blooming Idiot' when the wife is present.

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14 hours ago, niraD said:

The nano log strips sold by Groundspeak are 9/32" x 14". They have numbered spaces for 35 entries (18 on each side, with one taken up by the logo, URL, and instructions). That leaves a space about 1/4" by 3/4" for each finder to "sign and date". I can usually write "niraD" and the date (in YYYY-MM-DD format) in one of those spaces though.

 

nano_logs_500_2.jpg

Yes. Those are the ones.

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I've never found a log like the example by niraD.  Most were a 1/4"  to 3/8" roll tops,  and blank paper all the way through.

 -  I write "cerb1" across the width of the log, like everyone else, and that just barely fits. 

The other 2/3rds showed me Geoswag  sells nano logs, and claims they fit "both sizes", whatever that is.

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55 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Most were a 1/4"  to 3/8" roll tops,  and blank paper all the way through.

What do you mean by "roll tops"? I don't think I've seen anything other than the kind I described in blinker-style nano-caches. Some have been cut from standard US letter-size paper, so they're only 11in long, rather than 14in long. Some have been cut from blank paper. But they've all been pretty similar to the kind I described.

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5 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

And they only fit four logs? I'm confused, if they have numbered spaces for 35.

I believe they are folded 'fan like', i.e folded back on themselves several times, kinda zig-zagged.

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3 hours ago, niraD said:

What do you mean by "roll tops"? I don't think I've seen anything other than the kind I described in blinker-style nano-caches. Some have been cut from standard US letter-size paper, so they're only 11in long, rather than 14in long. Some have been cut from blank paper. But they've all been pretty similar to the kind I described.

 

Sheesh...  We're gonna define "the" again ?     "Tops" was italicized,.  Maybe 3/8"  Max be better to explain the largest in width we've ever seen...

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23 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Sheesh...  We're gonna define "the" again ?     "Tops" was italicized,.  Maybe 3/8"  Max be better to explain the largest in width we've ever seen...

Do you mean that blinker-style nano-caches have used strips like this with the short dimension (1/4" to 3/8") being the width, and the long dimension (11" to 14") being the height? That sounds painful.

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6 minutes ago, niraD said:

Do you mean that blinker-style nano-caches have used strips like this with the short dimension (1/4" to 3/8") being the width, and the long dimension (11" to 14") being the height? That sounds painful.


I’d say most I’ve seen have been painful ... as  you described!

 

 

298BC921-4441-4A9A-90E5-5028BBAF5153.jpeg

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34 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

I’d say most I’ve seen have been painful ... as  you described!

 

 

298BC921-4441-4A9A-90E5-5028BBAF5153.jpeg

 

Yeah, if they're an inch (or more) wide, then signing a log strip like that makes sense. That's what I'm used to seeing in Bison tubes.

 

But if they're less than half an inch wide, like what I've seen in blinker-style nano-caches, then signing a log strip like that makes no sense.

 

The closest I've seen to that in a blinker-style nano-cache is a strip of regular lined binder paper. But no one was signing across the 3/8 inch width of the strip. Everyone was signing along the 11 inch length of the strip, like with the ones Groundspeak sells. They were just being a little less consistent in how wide a space they used.

Edited by niraD

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7 hours ago, niraD said:

Do you mean that blinker-style nano-caches have used strips like this with the short dimension (1/4" to 3/8") being the width, and the long dimension (11" to 14") being the height? That sounds painful.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "blinkers", they're the same nanos (sold as nanos) that are sold at most megas.     :)

Every state we've found a nano in had similar (but much narrower) to IceColdUK's photo,  where you sign the width of the log.

I don't understand how somehow this is new to anyone...

Most, if you can't write small,  you're lucky to get two initials on paper.  I smash "Cerb1" together, and that's all there's room for.

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1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "blinkers", they're the same nanos (sold as nanos) that are sold at most megas.

Groundspeak sells a few different types of containers in the "nano" section:

tube-container.jpgblack-nano-cache_500.jpgbutterfly-cache2.jpg

 

The kind I call "blinkers" (or sometimes "blinkies") are the kind shown in the middle. The early versions of those were made from blinking LED jewelry. The batteries were removed, and a tiny scroll of paper was inserted in the (now empty) battery compartment.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnCn3IuwmMbJopbJd4lzH

 

Anyway, I've only seen the logs being signed down the length of the tiny log strip, not across it's (very narrow) width. Like the logs Groundspeak sells:

 

nano_logs_500_2.jpg

Edited by niraD
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I've seen both - and in the case of the vertical (across the width) I'll sign CAV if I'm solo, hubby and I will sign SL2 if we are together. Plenty of room for 3 characters across.  And I note in my log what signature we left (names, or what initials were used) so the CO can match them up if needed.

Edited by CAVinoGal

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12 hours ago, niraD said:

Groundspeak sells a few different types of containers in the "nano" section:

tube-container.jpgblack-nano-cache_500.jpgbutterfly-cache2.jpg

 

The kind I call "blinkers" (or sometimes "blinkies") are the kind shown in the middle. The early versions of those were made from blinking LED jewelry. The batteries were removed, and a tiny scroll of paper was inserted in the (now empty) battery compartment.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnCn3IuwmMbJopbJd4lzH

 

Anyway, I've only seen the logs being signed down the length of the tiny log strip, not across it's (very narrow) width. Like the logs Groundspeak sells:

 

nano_logs_500_2.jpg

 

I appreciate how diligent the Cache Owners of Blinky Nanos are to change the log every three finds. :cute:

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4 minutes ago, kunarion said:

I appreciate how diligent the Cache Owners of Blinky Nanos are to change the log every three finds. :cute:

Don't forget that people can also sign the back. That's room for 4 more finds! ;)

Edited by niraD
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7 minutes ago, niraD said:

Don't forget that people can also sign the back. That's room for 4 more finds! ;)

 

Yeah!  With all that extra room, you can just Set It And Forget It! :D

 

I haven't seen the horizontal signing kind of sheet (but 110%, give or take, are a spitwad mass of soaking wet smushed fibers by the time I find one).  But I have seen a lot of compact ink blotch "signatures" by previous finders and one ginormous signature for four inches down the whole log sheet.  That's always super cute. <_<

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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14 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

I appreciate how diligent the Cache Owners of Blinky Nanos are to change the log every three finds. :cute:

 

I saw the humour in that one.B)  I've just received several nanos from a seller in Germany and they have log similar rolls,  with space for 37 signatures. The log roll is wrapped around a tiny metal pin (which prevents it from falling out of the container (due to the magnet) when opened and makes it easier to re-roll. It also has a sticky bit on the end which keeps it from unrolling once its replaced in the container. The container is painted a colour, which in the Oz and UK military is called "olive drab" and the magnet feels stronger and more secure than those in the more common, cheap, black versions. The also came with a spare log roll.

I've found, with the cheap black ones,  the magnets are weak and they eventually fall out, getting lost in the grass or leaf litter or water or whatever.

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7 minutes ago, colleda said:

 

I saw the humour in that one.B)  I've just received several nanos from a seller in Germany and they have log similar rolls,  with space for 37 signatures. The log roll is wrapped around a tiny metal pin (which prevents it from falling out of the container (due to the magnet) when opened and makes it easier to re-roll. It also has a sticky bit on the end which keeps it from unrolling once its replaced in the container. The container is painted a colour, which in the Oz and UK military is called "olive drab" and the magnet feels stronger and more secure than those in the more common, cheap, black versions. The also came with a spare log roll.

I've found, with the cheap black ones,  the magnets are weak and they eventually fall out, getting lost in the grass or leaf litter or water or whatever.

 

The integral magnetic log roller is an interesting idea!

 

I've more often seen log rolls working better when placed within the cap than in the base.  I find the rolled sheet was crushed into the base when the cap is installed by previous finders, so I roll it tight and put it into the cap.  But that would depend on sheet width and cap design.

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16 hours ago, niraD said:

Groundspeak sells a few different types of containers in the "nano" section:

tube-container.jpgblack-nano-cache_500.jpgbutterfly-cache2.jpg

 

 

So maybe THAT's where people get the (completely wrong) idea that the centrifuge tubes are acceptable cache containers.

 

Sigh.

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3 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

So maybe THAT's where people get the (completely wrong) idea that the centrifuge tubes are acceptable cache containers.

 

I'm pretty sure I saw centrifuge tubes used in the wild well before I saw them for sale on Groundspeak's site.

 

The ones I'm curious about are the base containers for the butterfly camouflaged example on the right. I don't think I've seen them in the wild, but I have no idea what those containers would be used for, other than gluing some sort of camouflage to them and using them as a geocache. And Groundspeak offers a few options that all use the same base container.

 

butterfly-cache2.jpgspider-cache-2.jpgfly-cache2.jpg

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2 hours ago, niraD said:

The ones I'm curious about are the base containers for the butterfly camouflaged example on the right. I don't think I've seen them in the wild, but I have no idea what those containers would be used for

 

The smallest I've found are 1.2 mL "Cryogenic Vials", and these that aren't threaded, where the manufacturer doesn't mention the capacity nor what they're for.  But they also come in black.  The butterfly kind seems almost custom crafted from longer tubes.  The two-tone plastic has me wondering (or are these painted?).

 

 

Edited by kunarion

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14 hours ago, kunarion said:

The smallest I've found are 1.2 mL "Cryogenic Vials", and these that aren't threaded, where the manufacturer doesn't mention the capacity nor what they're for.  But they also come in black.  The butterfly kind seems almost custom crafted from longer tubes.  The two-tone plastic has me wondering (or are these painted?).

 

We've used similar to your poly lab vials example to house wet salmon eggs in netting,  for steelhead fishing.

They've never leaked out, so we're guessing if we had to, they'd probably be okay for a temp fix on a multi stage    :)

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43 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We've used similar to your poly lab vials example to house wet salmon eggs in netting,  for steelhead fishing.

They've never leaked out, so we're guessing if we had to, they'd probably be okay for a temp fix on a multi stage    :)

 

I had a theory for centrifuge vial caches that threaded caps would be better than unthreaded.  But when I used some in the field, I discovered that cachers can't figure out how a threaded cap works.  Plus the cap gets dropped and lost.  Plus the whole thing gets dropped.  Long story short, I have a bah-zillion extra centrifuge vials.  Give or take.

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Those vials can be good containers, they just have to used in a good context. Sticking them in direct weathering is a Bad Idea. But certain camo, or certain placements can be better for them.

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3 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Those vials can be good containers, they just have to used in a good context. Sticking them in direct weathering is a Bad Idea. But certain camo, or certain placements can be better for them.

 

I have yet to experience a setting in which they are an acceptable container.  They usually fail when the lid breaks, which it always does after a few months outside.  Maybe they would work indoors. But how many caches are hidden indoors? 

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10 minutes ago, fizzymagic said:

 

I have yet to experience a setting in which they are an acceptable container.  They usually fail when the lid breaks, which it always does after a few months outside.  Maybe they would work indoors. But how many caches are hidden indoors? 

 

I have some caches that are hidden deep inside caves, like this one (GC7YP51):

 

DSC_0080.jpg.f355f6d6ac596ce721e1c1a1ae83b48a.jpg

 

or inside this hollowed-out boulder (GC7T2QE):

 

43a05245-7758-496a-b29f-7fc05c27c586.jpg

 

Maybe not quite inside a house, but near enough when it comes to exposure to the elements (and probably safer than a building when the fires come).

 

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Also (some ymmv), library caches, gadget caches, lamp skirts, camouflaged outer containers, anywhere not directly exposed to elements... It's all a matter of how you use a container. Even cheap dollar store tupperware can be a sufficient container in the right context. (note: sufficient - not necessarily optimal or the best, but sufficient > bad)

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 9:32 PM, spacemule said:

Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

 

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

Annoying?  maybe.  Self-centered, and tacky would depend on the experience of the finder.   I anticipate things like that (and many others)  from new cachers.   I'd hope an experienced cacher or cache owner would bet a little more understanding.   Of course if I knew then what I know now,  I'd have made my caching name "ARF" and saved myself many signing problems:)   

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On 12/30/2019 at 3:44 PM, thebruce0 said:

Also (some ymmv), library caches, gadget caches, lamp skirts, camouflaged outer containers, anywhere not directly exposed to elements... It's all a matter of how you use a container. Even cheap dollar store tupperware can be a sufficient container in the right context. (note: sufficient - not necessarily optimal or the best, but sufficient > bad)

 

True. In some places a cheap dollar store container will do. In my experience, mostly for indoor caches (libraries or other buildings where water isn't an issue).

 

Regarding lamp post skirt caches, I'd say about a third of the LPCs I've found had wet logs. If it's outdoors there's a good chance it will have to deal with the elements. I would recommend that people use watertight containers under/in things like lamp post skirts, birdhouses, and bridges. 

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On 12/29/2019 at 1:04 AM, kunarion said:

 

The smallest I've found are 1.2 mL "Cryogenic Vials", and these that aren't threaded, where the manufacturer doesn't mention the capacity nor what they're for.  But they also come in black.  The butterfly kind seems almost custom crafted from longer tubes.  The two-tone plastic has me wondering (or are these painted?).

 

 

I found a couple of those in Northern California last week.  The top was cracked and wouldn't even stay on the container.  The smallest nano I've seen was a small brass tube with a couple of rubber caps on each end.

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4 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The smallest nano I've seen was a small brass tube with a couple of rubber caps on each end.

The smallest nano-caches I've seen have been small pet ID capsules (the size intended for cats and miniature dogs) or custom containers made from small brass tubes.

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